Star Trek Voyager Characters

MrJones1973

Inviere wrote: »

Nearing the end of my most recent DS9 rewatch, and it's hands down the best of the whole franchise imo. Wipes the floor with Voyager & Enterprise, and pips TNG in a lot of areas too. You really, really, need to watch it from the start, and stick with it. By watching a handful of eps, you're not giving it the chance it needs. I get that Voyager was the starting point for a lot of folks into Star Trek, but if you stick with DS9 you'll see just how weak Voyager is in comparison (writing, characters, story arcs, chemistry, intrigue, pacing, involvement, etc). It's a modern travesty we're unlikely to ever see it on Blu Ray

http://www.treknews.net/2017/02/02/why-ds9-voyager-not-on-blu-ray-hd/

I could only read half of it before I dozed off. Disappointing it can't be on blue ray

prinzeugen

I must be one of the few that likes Voyager but hates DS9.

What put me off DS9 was the ott acting and the boring storylines. Yes there were one or two good episodes.

If you want bad actors, have a look at the French woman that was going to be Janeway.. Awful. Its on YouTube.

degrassinoel

prinzeugen wrote: »

I must be one of the few that likes Voyager but hates DS9.

What put me off DS9 was the ott acting and the boring storylines. Yes there were one or two good episodes.

If you want bad actors, have a look at the French woman that was going to be Janeway.. Awful. Its on YouTube.

lol k..

So who was ott in ds9?

Slutmonkey57b

Sisko had this annoying habit of yelping like a small dog.

degrassinoel

the michael jackson excited yelp?

Ah come on, he only did that once or twice

The_Valeyard

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I could only read half of it before I dozed off. Disappointing it can't be on blue ray

It would be amazing

Inviere

prinzeugen wrote: »

What put me off DS9 was the ott acting and the boring storylines. Yes there were one or two good episodes.

Yourself isit

I'm sure DS9 was an interesting political drama set on the future but there was no trekking.

degrassinoel

Yourself isit wrote: »

I'm sure DS9 was an interesting political drama set on the future but there was no trekking.

The beauty of DS9 was that it sat right a by a wormhole where the explorers came to it, there were also expeditions into the gamma quadrant itself - there was trekking, not as much as other series' but there was some. Definitely not none.

Inviere

Yourself isit wrote: »

I'm sure DS9 was an interesting political drama set on the future but there was no trekking.

You say that as if Voyager somehow did trekking right. DS9 expanded the scope of Star Trek in a way where it was badly needed. Voyager was way, way, way too safe, and ended up being exposed because television has come a long way since baddies of the week and reset buttons.

MrJones1973

Voyager wasnt that bad a series. There were many good episodes. But the characters were just too dull outside of The doctor and 7 of nine. Janeway's voice was terribly annoying but I think that shriek is a bit of a problem with women of her age.

I didnt mind the reset button so much as the lack of character development outside of the two I mentioned. I think sometimes modern television over does the novelistic elements leading to convoluted narratives. Ds9 avoided being too complicated. The sets were a bit dull though.

Though I was glad Chakotay got it on with seven. Somebody had to!

seamus

Inviere wrote: »

You say that as if Voyager somehow did trekking right. DS9 expanded the scope of Star Trek in a way where it was badly needed. Voyager was way, way, way too safe, and ended up being exposed because television has come a long way since baddies of the week and reset buttons.

I think that's pretty much it. It was safe and comfortable. Very much like, "TNG in another part of the galaxy".

As said earlier in this thread, everyone was too much of shiny-shoes officer, flirting with maybe breaking some small rules, only be snapped back into the "upholding the principles" line, despite being so far from home.

I find the finale interesting - Admiral Janeway laments the fact that she didn't take more risks, that she was too focussed on duty and honour to do what needed to be done to get her crew home. Perhaps this was a subtle theme added in by the writers to shadow their own regret that they didn't write the entire series with more of an edge.

The Equinox storyline provided a grittier and altogether more realistic illustration of the desperation of a crew so far from home. If the Voyager storylines had been something between the two extremes of Voyager and Equinox, we'd have a far more interesting story. Things like Janeway ignoring the Omega directive and attempting to use the substance to get home or being far more brutal and unforgiving when it came to dealing with the Kazon and Vidiians. Constant tension with the Maquii crew who want to pursue even more aggressive tactics to get home.

Inviere

seamus wrote: »

I think that's pretty much it. It was safe and comfortable. Very much like, "TNG in another part of the galaxy".

Indeed, but a lot less like-able, and with a lot less focus on the human condition aspect of Star Trek. A lot can be said for the 'trekking' element in Star Trek, but at the end of the day, trekking is just a medium for exploring the human condition (in the world of Star Trek) - something DS9 did infintely better than Voyager did, all without moving an inch. That's how you know they seriously frakked up with Voyager.

Yourself isit

Inviere wrote: »

You say that as if Voyager somehow did trekking right. DS9 expanded the scope of Star Trek in a way where it was badly needed. Voyager was way, way, way too safe, and ended up being exposed because television has come a long way since baddies of the week and reset buttons.

I didn't say anything about voyager.

The problem with imagined universes is that some species dreamed up at a scriptwriters den in 1967 as a baddie of the week becomes canon and uber geeks want to keep that universe's internal logic for ever. Hence the need for roboots, parallel universes or the delta quadrant so we can get back to the original ideology which was baddies of the week and reset buttons (albeit in the TOS with some fairly not very well disguised cold war enemies thrown in.)

But they trekked.

Evade

Is there something inherently bad about wanting to keep the canon canon? If you want to break off and rewrite it completely why not make something that isn't Star Trek?

The_Valeyard

Evade wrote: »

Is there something inherently bad about wanting to keep the canon canon? If you want to break off and rewrite it completely why not make something that isn't Star Trek?

I really enjoy the lore, backstories, different alien cultural norms. Etc.


I grew up with it. I'd rather keep it the way it is or else do a full clean break.

The biggest thing with DS9, I felt, is that because most of the action took place in one relatively static location - there was no planet hopping, no meeting a new race every single episode, there was no focusing on exploration. Instead they could spend that time focusing on the actual story and character development. With the other shows, especially the likes of Voyager & Enterprise, they spend too much time focusing on these other things, meaning that you never get enough time to flesh out the characters.

For my money, and I've said this in the DS9 runthrough thread, DS9 is the best series of the Trek franchise, with Voyager following a close second, and Enterprise being relegated because of my runthrough recently as an adult.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The biggest thing with DS9, I felt, is that because most of the action took place in one relatively static location - there was no planet hopping, no meeting a new race every single episode, there was no focusing on exploration. Instead they could spend that time focusing on the actual story and character development. With the other shows, especially the likes of Voyager & Enterprise, they spend too much time focusing on these other things, meaning that you never get enough time to flesh out the characters.

For my money, and I've said this in the DS9 runthrough thread, DS9 is the best series of the Trek franchise, with Voyager following a close second, and Enterprise being relegated because of my runthrough recently as an adult.

Funnily enough though the Aliens and locations were really only plot points to explore the human condition.

That was the real Trek in Star Trek, the exploration of what it means to be human

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Funnily enough though the Aliens and locations were really only plot points to explore the human condition.

That was the real Trek in Star Trek, the exploration of what it means to be human

But, honestly, I never felt much of an attachment to the characters themselves in the series that "Trek"'d. At least not outside of the star roles.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

But, honestly, I never felt much of an attachment to the characters themselves in the series that "Trek"'d. At least not outside of the star roles.

They drove the plot along.
Kirk, Spock, McCoy as balanced/rational/emotional respectively

Picard was authority, stoic, experienced, measured
Riker was meant to be the rule breaker, wild card, impulsive
Data, ironically wonder, growth, mirror for humanity

DS9 had every cast member rich in some way, each with flaws, prejudice, weaknesses and strengths. And through the protracted war we got to see each shine.

What had Voyager?
Even Enterprise tried to have a troika between Archer, Trip, Tpol. Didn't quite work (often better with Phlox) but it was there

Bacchus

Deleted User wrote: »

What had Voyager?

To be fair, they had a nice relationship built between 7 of 9 and The Doctor as they both explored their humanity but that didn't come along until the later seasons.

MrJones1973

Thanks to whoever reminded me of Voyager episode Equinox-it showed what real opposition would be like for Janeway. Rather than the blandness of the ex Marquis and 7/9. Voyager should as the poster noted have aimed for a half way house between these two extremes rather than a reset every week.

MrJones1973

Blink of an eye also a brill Voyager episode

IvySlayer

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Thanks to whoever reminded me of Voyager episode Equinox-it showed what real opposition would be like for Janeway. Rather than the blandness of the ex Marquis and 7/9. Voyager should as the poster noted have aimed for a half way house between these two extremes rather than a reset every week.

Good episode followed by the usual Voyager reset button.

Janeway relieved Chakotay even though he had valid points and saved a guys life. She threatened to relieve Tuvok too for voicing an opinion as acting first officer. At the end of the episode everything is hunky-dory and there's no long lasting effects from it!

MrJones1973

I think Voyager was probably better at stand alone stuff. Sometimes thats good too. They could have done more on Character development. Who Besides Seven/Doctor developed? Tom Paris had settled down by the end of caretaker!

I have a funny feeling I said all of this before!

A lot of modern Tv is too convoluted and disappears up its own arse.

Year of Hell is probably up there with the best of the Voyager episodes.

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Year of Hell is probably up there with the best of the Voyager episodes.

It would be perfect if not for "Time's up."

The_Valeyard

Evade wrote: »

It would be perfect if not for "Time's up."

yeah the second part of that episode really pissed me off.

Sight808

Like a few people here I grew up with Voyager too, although it was the early 00's when I used to watch it on sky.

Most people have already talked about how bland a lot of the characers were but I do feel there were some great performances and characters in the show.

I always loved episodes with B'elanna Torres and how the show dealt with her half Klingon Hertiage.

And this scene gave me a kick right in the feels all those years go

RIP One...

MrJones1973

To be fair Torres wasnt that bad but her most interesting side-her temper/kilingon side rarely got let out. They could have even explored marriage (between her and Paris) but didnt. Keiko and O'brien did a better job at that.