Star Trek Voyager Characters

Slutmonkey57b

Voyager was much closer to the roots of a star trek show; the federation as unambiguously good guys, with single episode storytelling, where a lot of the "flawed human" which drove ds9's plots had evolved out of society. They had some good opportunities to tell interesting stories, but they didn't always take them. Ds9, however good it was, never felt like a trek show.

Bad acting is all part of the thrill of trek, surely.

The_Valeyard

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Ds9, however good it was, never felt like a trek show.

Probably because it should have been Babylon 5.

*cough*
*cough*

Did I say that?

MrJones1973

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Voyager was much closer to the roots of a star trek show; the federation as unambiguously good guys, with single episode storytelling, where a lot of the "flawed human" which drove ds9's plots had evolved out of society. They had some good opportunities to tell interesting stories, but they didn't always take them. Ds9, however good it was, never felt like a trek show.

Bad acting is all part of the thrill of trek, surely.

To be fair a lot of television acting is poor due to fact that most shows are formulaic or they hired the best looking chick or dude and feck the acting.

Bacchus

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Voyager was much closer to the roots of a star trek show; the federation as unambiguously good guys, with single episode storytelling, where a lot of the "flawed human" which drove ds9's plots had evolved out of society. They had some good opportunities to tell interesting stories, but they didn't always take them. Ds9, however good it was, never felt like a trek show.

Bad acting is all part of the thrill of trek, surely.

My issue with that was though that I'd seen it all before in TOS and TNG. I stuck through Voyager because the concept of being completely alone trying to find a way home added a unique twist to it all (something that ended up being almost entirely a missed opportunity). Enterprise then was just more of the same and that was the last straw for me.

Voyager isn't particularly bad, it's just that it offered very little that was new. It does fail on an extra level though in that it failed so badly to live up to its potential...
- A science vessel with limited resources all alone in a hostile quadrant... fire all the torpedos, we're practically a warship in these parts.
- Maquis side by side with Federation... forgotten after 3 episodes
- Travelling through Borg space... neutered the Borg

They even teased us with what could have been with "A Year of Hell". Give me a season of THAT.

The only thing they followed through on well was having a Borg crew-member (7 of 9).

As for the characters, I'd say they were about on par with TNG. Both had great characters (Picard, Data, 7 of 9, Doctor) but Voyager did have a few extra lame ducks that dragged things down a bit.

DS9 and TOS beat both of those though on the character front.

MrJones1973

Yeah voyager is entertaining on an episode by episode basis but doesn't hang together that well . Trek overall is bad about doing characters in trouble. Most personal problems resolved in 45 minutes. Very few morally ambiguous characters like Balthar on battle star Galactica . You never really viewed quark as that bad for instance

The_Valeyard

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Yeah voyager is entertaining on an episode by episode basis but doesn't hang together that well . Trek overall is bad about doing characters in trouble. Most personal problems resolved in 45 minutes. Very few morally ambiguous characters like Balthar on battle star Galactica . You never really viewed quark as that bad for instance

Quark wasn't good or bad. Just about profit. Then again no history of Ferengi barbarism or genocides.

Baltar (2003) I think was really your average human, on both sides of good n evil, caught up in a mess he accidentally contributed too.

The_Valeyard

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Quark wasn't good or bad. Just about profit. Then again no history of Ferengi barbarism or genocides.

Baltar (2003) I think was really your average human, on both sides of good n evil, caught up in a mess he accidentally contributed too.

Ah lad, Baltar was far too far to the "Self protection at all costs" side of evil

hytrogen

Two DS9 moments stood out for me were, when Picard shows up and is an arrogant piquer for a few moments owning Cisco over wolf359, way too many chips on that dudes shoulders.. great tense dialogue.
That and the whole Cardassian war tensions

Oh and the nudity the Ferengi brought, great society, great philosophy, great paraphrase comment on Jews and our modern society lustful desires when you dig into the research archives 

hytrogen

hytrogen wrote: »

Two DS9 moments stood out for me were, when Picard shows up and is an arrogant piquer for a few moments owning Cisco over wolf359, way too many chips on that dudes shoulders.. great tense dialogue.
That and the whole kardashian war tensions

Oh and the nudity the Ferengi brought, great society, great philosophy, great paraphrase comment on Jews and our modern society lustful desires when you dig into the research archives

Kardashian??

hytrogen

Deleted User wrote:

Kardashian??

GDI stupid Google keyboard... Cardassians

I'll get my jacket...

Amalgam

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think it's worth noting Jeri Ryan passed out when she first put on outfit. (true story)

Do you all know the connection between her and Barack Obama? Her ex husband had to pull out of 2004 Senate race after divorce papers disclosure. Sank his campaign. Made it an easy win for Barack.

Voyager changed for me when I found out Kate Mulgrew and Jeri Ryan couldn't do face to face scenes, face to face. The mood between them was that bad.

Google about, you'll find a lot of fodder to this, at the time, smouldering feud, between the two. :eek:

helimachoptor

Amalgam wrote: »

Voyager changed for me when I found out Kate Mulgrew and Jeri Ryan couldn't do face to face scenes, face to face. The mood between them was that bad.

Google about, you'll find a lot of fodder to this, at the time, smouldering feud, between the two. :eek:

Really never heard of that!

off to google!

MrJones1973

Im shocked and appalled to hear that!

MrJones1973

But here it is in bold print. She never says kate but its obvious.

http://trekcore.com/blog/2014/11/ryan-mulgrew-feud/

helimachoptor

tbh i always found their on screen chemistry pretty good

The_Valeyard

Tuvok: captain, Seven of Nine has run away again.


Janeway: f*ck it, too much hassle

Woden

hytrogen wrote: »

Two DS9 moments stood out for me were, when Picard shows up and is an arrogant piquer for a few moments owning Cisco over wolf359, way too many chips on that dudes shoulders.. great tense dialogue.
That and the whole Cardassian war tensions

Oh and the nudity the Ferengi brought, great society, great philosophy, great paraphrase comment on Jews and our modern society lustful desires when you dig into the research archives 

While I see the Ferengi as a charicature of aspects of humanity (perhaps negative ones). Let's not go down the road of stereotyping Jewish people in relation to this.

MrJones1973

Voyager was pretty good at stand alone episodes. I haven't watched it in a while so can't think off the top of my head. One thing I liked about voyager was the set was brighter. Deep space nine was very very drab..Reminded me of pubs in rural Ireland or a few **** pubs in Dublin.

The next generation bridge looked like a hotel reception. Voyager got its bridge right at the very least

I loved voyager I have to say, really liked the story of being stranded far away and enjoyed the vast majority of the episodes. TNG I saw lots of but never follows a season even from start to finish like I did with voyager as I was a bit young when it was being shown originally but I'm rewatching from the start now.

I have to say though I don't get the love for DS9, I have only wanted a hand full of episodes and find it very boring, a lot of the enjoyment of Star Trek is the travelling around to new places, finding new technology (which there was a lot of in voyager), battles with unknown aliens etc. The show being set on a space station going nowhere just never did it for me.

Bacchus

Ryann Melted Elf wrote: »

I have to say though I don't get the love for DS9, I have only wanted a hand full of episodes and find it very boring, a lot of the enjoyment of Star Trek is the travelling around to new places, finding new technology (which there was a lot of in voyager), battles with unknown aliens etc. The show being set on a space station going nowhere just never did it for me.

You haven't given it enough time. DS9 is the 'big battles' daddy of the Star Trek universe.

I'm on a run through of DS9 at the moment (on season 3) and I find the continuity of it and the depth to the characters far better than any of the other other modern day Trek shows. The Defiant really helped the show grow too in terms of getting off the station. I am even enjoying the Bajoran stories far more this time around as they are so relevant to the current global situation with terrorism and occupation. The Jem-Hadar storyline is kicking off now too and Worf will be joining soon so it's getting better and better.

Compared to Voyager... they hit the reset button every week. The idea of being stranded rarely exploited or followed through on. It was just like TOS or TNG but with weaker characters and the occasional story that lived up to the setup. It was only when they introduced 7 of 9 and allowed the Doctor to evolve further that the show had characters of real interest and the show actually grew a bit.... but just a bit.

MrJones1973

Its a fair criticism to say a station offered less opportunity for travel but they got round this by hopping in a shuttle every second episode. As for Voyage traveling around without star fleet backup-most of the other ships hardly interact with starfleet. Kirk often got a message from starfleet after he had saved the day. Countless examples of picard's Enterprise just dealing with danger and hardly a warp signature of another starfleet ship out there!
Voyager seemed to miraculously repair itself every week-a criticism that has been leveled here.

It has some great stand alone episodes and there was good quality control on it. Good Production values. Generally good stories and the acting was no better or worse than most Tv

Just now playing field is so crowded for Sci -fi -it wouldn't hold its own in marketplace now.

Mrwhite1970

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Just now playing field is so crowded for Sci -fi -it wouldn't hold its own in marketplace now.

I don't know, there might be a fair bit of sci-fi around but there is a major lack of good space based sci-fi. The expanse has been the first one in quite a while (since the end of the stargate franchise really) and with Star Trek discovery on the way hopefully we will get our fix of space going sci-fi a bit more regularly.

MrJones1973

Ryann Melted Elf wrote: »

I don't know, there might be a fair bit of sci-fi around but there is a major lack of good space based sci-fi. The expanse has been the first one in quite a while (since the end of the stargate franchise really) and with Star Trek discovery on the way hopefully we will get our fix of space going sci-fi a bit more regularly.

Battle star was good and so was continuum. Some other series had potential but got the axe before the second season. The event and flashforward are two that come to mind. Westworld?

SimonTemplar

Voyager was my real gateway into Star Trek. I remember bits of TNG on RTE when I was a child but Sky showed Voyager at 5:00pm on weekdays around 2002 and I used to watch that after secondary school.

I used to enjoy it, but having watched the entire TNG and DS9 as an adult, I now find Voyager almost unwatchable because of its characters.

TNG's Picard and Data are the pinnacle of Star Trek characters. Worf may have taken a few seasons for the writers to overcome his role as 'token Klingon' but he evolved into a great character. Riker may not be an A-list Trek character but he is infinitely more watchable than Chakotay, and he actually had a very good dynamic with Picard. I always liked Geordi due to his energetic enthusiasm, and I was disappointed during my rewatch that he wasn't given much attention during the series aside from technobabble exposition and some horribly clunky love stories. I think "The Enemy" is the best Geordi episode. Like Riker though, the character is watchable and likable and I also liked his friendship with Data.

Crusher and Troi were definitely weak links although I think I can tolerate Troi more than others, and Crusher less than others. I think Sirtis is a slightly more naturalistic actor than McFadden but she was saddled with writers who had no clue how to handle her character. Alien spaceship fires a folly of torpedoes at the Enterprise, Troi "I sense anger and aggression, Captain". :pac: A majority of the Troi centric episodes involved her either victim to some telepathic attack or falling in love with some random dignitary.

At the end of the day though, TNG was great despite of its weaker characters but Voyager was poor because of its weak characters.

Janeway had her moments, but was still the weaker than her predecessors. The rest of the bridge staff were all utterly dull. I mean, the ship's computer had more personality than Chakotay and I'm sure the sensors had trouble recognizing him as a lifesign.

Kim and Tom would just send me to sleep.

If Neelix was supposed to be the Voyager version of Guinan, they failed miserably. Really can't stand him.

Torres was actually OK, and probably the character whose temperament most closely adhered to her Marquis background, although her Klingon blood probably helped that too.

The Doctor and Seven were definitely the best of that crew, and it's a pity two very good characters didn't get a better show.

MrJones1973

Great line Templar about chakotay-computer probably had trouble recognizing him as a life sign. Though feeling my age when you said you were only in secondary school watching i in 2002.

Reminds me of quote about President Harding USA -when somebody said he was dead-a reporter replied 'How can you tell?'

SimonTemplar

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Great line Templar about chakotay-computer probably had trouble recognizing him as a life sign. Though feeling my age when you said you were only in secondary school watching i in 2002.

Reminds me of quote about President Harding USA -when somebody said he was dead-a reporter replied 'How can you tell?'

I just saw that Roxann Dawson is 58. 58!! :eek:

Mrwhite1970

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Battle star was good and so was continuum. Some other series had potential but got the axe before the second season. The event and flashforward are two that come to mind. Westworld?

Battlestar I still need to watch, very much agree on flash forward really enjoyed it and very annoyed it was axed westworld is good too. There was also Defiance which I enjoyed and I really enjoyed Sanctuary. Most of these weren't set in space though (defiance) or even have any connection with space (except battlestar) which was the point I was making re there being lots of sci-fi (and some of it good) but there was a lack of a good show set in space for a while.

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Voyager was my real gateway into Star Trek. I remember bits of TNG on RTE when I was a child but Sky showed Voyager at 5:00pm on weekdays around 2002 and I used to watch that after secondary school.

This is exactly the same as how I got into Voyager too, watching it on sky1 at 5pm when I got in from school. There use to be a double sometimes also if I remember correctly.

I remember when we would go on holiday in the summer having the vcr set to record it every day while we were away!

Ryann Melted Elf

Ryann Melted Elf wrote: »

Battlestar I still need to watch, very much agree on flash forward really enjoyed it and very annoyed it was axed westworld is good too. There was also Defiance which I enjoyed and I really enjoyed Sanctuary. Most of these weren't set in space though (defiance) or even have any connection with space (except battlestar) which was the point I was making re there being lots of sci-fi (and some of it good) but there was a lack of a good show set in space for a while.

Because it costs a frikken fortune

MrJones1973

Sorry Nox- just got your distinction about space based sci Fi .Battle star Galactica was a great series. I had issues with last season and like Westworld (obviously not space based ) it got too cute by half but it was still a fantastic series . I'm so old I recall the first series of it in 1978. Not as good but still worth a watch. Rip Mr hatch (Apollo)

Inviere

Ryann Melted Elf wrote: »

I have to say though I don't get the love for DS9, I have only wanted a hand full of episodes and find it very boring

Nearing the end of my most recent DS9 rewatch, and it's hands down the best of the whole franchise imo. Wipes the floor with Voyager & Enterprise, and pips TNG in a lot of areas too. You really, really, need to watch it from the start, and stick with it. By watching a handful of eps, you're not giving it the chance it needs. I get that Voyager was the starting point for a lot of folks into Star Trek, but if you stick with DS9 you'll see just how weak Voyager is in comparison (writing, characters, story arcs, chemistry, intrigue, pacing, involvement, etc). It's a modern travesty we're unlikely to ever see it on Blu Ray

http://www.treknews.net/2017/02/02/why-ds9-voyager-not-on-blu-ray-hd/