Star Trek Voyager Characters

MrJones1973

I have been making my way through DS9 lately and im still impressed by it. The characters in particular. They were just so damn interesting. Can the same be said For Voyager? Outside of 7 of 9 and the doctor I found them terrifyingly humdrum. At a stretch you might include Torres.

Part of the problem was casting
The guy playing Chakotay (beltrain?) was one of the worst actors I ever saw. Ditto Ensign Kim and added to that they never really developed him but perhaps fact he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag hindered that

heebusjeebus

Ya, too many bland humans. Tuvok doesn't add anything to the Vulcan crowd either.
I'm currently half way through season 5 and The Doctor is the best character by a mile.

degrassinoel

Janeway and the Doctor are the only two of merit, oh and Nog when he shows up for one show as a Kazon kid.

Janeway was a decent character

The_Valeyard

DS9 was pretty dynamic with characters.


Voyager could have had more more interesting characters if they left the Marquis crew remain more true to their roots and rebellious, rather than 3 episodes to become perfect Mr. Shiny Shoes.

MrJones1973

Never thought much of Janeway. The series excelled at bland characters. Nelix was just a bad idea. Not funny. Harry kim would send you to sleep. Chakotay wasn't a credible human being .

The_Valeyard

I liked The Doctor and Tom Paris.

Really disliked Neelix and Seven.

Although that one episode about Neelix and his homeworld was good.

MrJones1973

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I liked The Doctor and Tom Paris.

Really disliked Neelix and Seven.

Although that one episode about Neelix and his homeworld was good.

Ah come on seven had a well you know that made up for a lot...

The_Valeyard

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Ah come on seven had a well you know that made up for a lot...

That was the problem, this one dimensional sexy borg. Lets find the tightest outfits she can possibly wear.

Although Kes looked pretty hot with her hair long and curls.

MrJones1973

The_Valeyard wrote: »

That was the problem, this one dimensional sexy borg. Lets find the tightest outfits she can possibly wear.

Although Kes looked pretty hot with her hair long and curls.

I thought she was more than a body. She was a foil to Janeway. A much needed foil. Seska was a decent character but not in it often enough
Tom Paris wasn't the worst of them even if he quickly toed the line after three episodes rebellion as a previous poster put it
Kes was bland but star trek doesn't really do women that well. (overall)

Nonoperational

I still thought Voyager was cracking.

MrJones1973

I think it's worth noting Jeri Ryan passed out when she first put on outfit. (true story)

Do you all know the connection between her and Barack Obama? Her ex husband had to pull out of 2004 Senate race after divorce papers disclosure. Sank his campaign. Made it an easy win for Barack.

Samuel T. Cogley

I'd like to pull out of...

TheIrishGrover

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I have been making my way through DS9 lately and im still impressed by it. The characters in particular. They were just so damn interesting. Can the same be said For Voyager? Outside of 7 of 9 and the doctor I found them terrifyingly humdrum. At a stretch you might include Torres.

Part of the problem was casting
The guy playing Chakotay (beltrain?) was one of the worst actors I ever saw. Ditto Ensign Kim and added to that they never really developed him but perhaps fact he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag hindered that

I'm a Voyager hater. Thought it was by far the worst series. But that's another thread and I will say this.

I do believe the main problem here is the very different natures of the two shows: DS9 was a serialised war series (After the Dominion came in anyway) where your actors and characters had time and space to really get their teeth stuck into a storyline. Storylines had consequences that had to be lived with. Characters couldn't just reset after 45 mins. Each character changed to some degree over the years while remaining true. Compare Sisco from episode 1 to the the last episode. Still the same character. Changed. Lived in. But still the same character.
Relationships changed: O'Brien and Bashier's bromance, The Siscos, Kira and Odo etc.

The thing is they were given time to develop. The Big Red Reset Button that voyager used every week like a Knight Rider Episode (Or ANY 80's series) may have made the series more syndication-friendly in that casual viewers could drop in or out at whim. But it stifled the development of the show. How could you develop characters if they went back to zero after 45 mins. It was a real throwback to the 80's after the experimentation of DS9.

Plus, I didn't think ANY of the actors were all that great, to be honest. They weren't terrible and I'm sure that people will point out individual performances that were great, dynamic performances. But these would be very rare and typically grandiose set pieces like The Doctor when they kept on resetting him. Sure, you could compare his scenes to Riker's play one (Can't remember the title). But as good as Riker's play performance is he also had other, "smaller" stories that he played fantastic too. The nice acting in the episode where he fell in love with the person from the androgynous species.

TLDR: Not great actors but to be fair, 80's-ish seriliased nature of show gave cast no room.

MrJones1973

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I'm a Voyager hater. Thought it was by far the worst series. But that's another thread and I will say this.

I do believe the main problem here is the very different natures of the two shows: DS9 was a serialised war series (After the Dominion came in anyway) where your actors and characters had time and space to really get their teeth stuck into a storyline. Storylines had consequences that had to be lived with. Characters couldn't just reset after 45 mins. Each character changed to some degree over the years while remaining true. Compare Sisco from episode 1 to the the last episode. Still the same character. Changed. Lived in. But still the same character.
Relationships changed: O'Brien and Bashier's bromance, The Siscos, Kira and Odo etc.

The thing is they were given time to develop. The Big Red Reset Button that voyager used every week like a Knight Rider Episode (Or ANY 80's series) may have made the series more syndication-friendly in that casual viewers could drop in or out at whim. But it stifled the development of the show. How could you develop characters if they went back to zero after 45 mins. It was a real throwback to the 80's after the experimentation of DS9.

Plus, I didn't think ANY of the actors were all that great, to be honest. They weren't terrible and I'm sure that people will point out individual performances that were great, dynamic performances. But these would be very rare and typically grandiose set pieces like The Doctor when they kept on resetting him. Sure, you could compare his scenes to Riker's play one (Can't remember the title). But as good as Riker's play performance is he also had other, "smaller" stories that he played fantastic too. The nice acting in the episode where he fell in love with the person from the androgynous species.

TLDR: Not great actors but to be fair, 80's-ish seriliased nature of show gave cast no room.

Overall I don't think trek is known for great actors. Patrick Stewart was a rarity. Leonard nimoy too. Beyond that most were work man like. I'm sure they would say good acting looks easy but overall TV actors up to the the mid 1990s were largely just spit out the lines types.The 45 minute stand alone formula didn't encourage depth as you have noted.
Odo wasn't bad but that actor has effectively been playing the same cranky role from Benson to ds9 to Boston legal and made a pretty penny from it I'd say!
Btw there was another trek actor on Benson . For ten marks..

The_Valeyard

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Overall I don't think trek is known for great actors. Patrick Stewart was a rarity. Leonard nimoy too. Beyond that most were work man like. I'm sure they would say good acting looks easy but overall TV actors up to the the mid 1990s were largely just spit out the lines types.The 45 minute stand alone formula didn't encourage depth as you have noted.
Odo wasn't bad but that actor has effectively been playing the same cranky role from Benson to ds9 to Boston legal and made a pretty penny from it I'd say!
Btw there was another trek actor on Benson . For ten marks..

Colm Meaney was brilliant.

Evade

I though Spiner, Siddig, Shimerman, and Picardo were consistently good. Spiner is so good he could (allegedly) fool Patrick Stewart's wife into thinking she was talking to her husband.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQcammV9G1Y

degrassinoel

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Colm Meaney was brilliant.

Shame they didnt give him more to do in TNG, he shone in DS9 alright

MrJones1973

I think Colm Meaney came across as an ordinary human being. I read somewhere that was the intention by the writers but occasionally they would write stories where O'Brien had to suffer. To balance him out. Meaney is another actor whom I feel basically plays himself in role after role.

Quark was well played too.

The_Valeyard

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think Colm Meaney came across as an ordinary human being. I read somewhere that was the intention by the writers but occasionally they would write stories where O'Brien had to suffer. To balance him out. Meaney is another actor whom I feel basically plays himself in role after role.

Quark was well played too.

DS9 had a load of fully fleshed out secondary characters. Lots of interesting people compared to voyagers secondary staff, excluding Seska.


Even the Borg Queen was quite dull.

Reading the actors comments, their on screen behaviour was mandated from up high. Grain of salt and all that

TheIrishGrover

The_Valeyard wrote: »

DS9 had a load of fully fleshed out secondary characters. Lots of interesting people compared to voyagers secondary staff, excluding Seska.


Even the Borg Queen was quite dull.

+1 This.

Think of the recurring secondary characters of interest in Voyager..... Anyone?... Bueller?... Bueller?

Now think of DS9:
Garak (How he was never made a series regular I don't know)
Rom
Nog
Leeta (Mmmmm Leeta)
Martok
Even Cassidy and Vic Fontane (Hey, I liked him )

And that's leaving out the awesome rogues gallery of Dukat, Kai Wynn, Damar, Weyoun.

....... Of course you did have Keiko "My-els" O'Brien

The_Valeyard

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

+1 This.

Think of the recurring secondary characters of interest in Voyager..... Anyone?... Bueller?... Bueller?

Now think of DS9:
Garak (How he was never made a series regular I don't know)
Rom
Nog
Leeta (Mmmmm Leeta)
Martok
Even Cassidy and Vic Fontane (Hey, I liked him )

And that's leaving out the awesome rogues gallery of Dukat, Kai Wynn, Damar, Weyoun.

....... Of course you did have Keiko "My-els" O'Brien

and Morn,

Who could forget the Lissepian Mother's Day Heist of 2365

Evade

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Garak (How he was never made a series regular I don't know)

Garak is one of my favourite Star Trek characters but I don't thin he would have worked as a series regular. There's only so much mystery you can have around him if he was in every episode they would have run out of material and he wouldn't have been the Garak we all love.

ItHurtsWhenIP

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

...
Btw there was another trek actor on Benson . For ten marks..

Neelix

(h/t to IMDB) :eek::P

MrJones1973

Well done on neelix. When he was with the one with the ears I had some interest in him but after she wisely dumped him he went downhill

MrJones1973

For extra points what two trek actors appeared in a successful non trek blockbuster movie ,though not in same scenes ?

degrassinoel

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

For extra points what two trek actors appeared in a successful non trek blockbuster movie ,though not in same scenes ?

Tuvoc and Chevov? fan fiction film who's name i forget

Evade

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

For extra points what two trek actors appeared in a successful non trek blockbuster movie ,though not in same scenes ?

Robert Duncan McNeil (Tom Paris) and Frank Langella (Minister Jaro, early DS9 character) were both in Masters of the Universe. Does that count as a blockbuster?

degrassinoel wrote: »

Tuvoc and Chevov? fan fiction film who's name i forget

Star Trek: Renegades.

degrassinoel

that's the one, also, pretty sure one of the borg kids was in that too, the elder one.. biological weapon guy

wow, loads of them in it, even the EMH, STC's Kirk and Sulu, Soval from Enterprise, and probably loads of others too
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2621446/

Evade

degrassinoel wrote: »

that's the one, also, pretty sure one of the borg kids was in that too, the elder one.. biological weapon guy

He was. There's another on coming out that has Terry Farrel and Aron Eisenberg in it too but playing different characters.

kefir32

hated DS9, snooze fest of highest proportions. voyager had plenty of faults without doubt and hated neelix, kim, and kes with a passion. On the other hand seven and the doc were strong, janeway too, despite the hypocrisy and histrionics
Year of hell was such a wasted opportunity, with different team at the helm and more creativity and boldness it could have been great. Otherwise a 6/10 overall