Largest church in Ireland to be demolished, replacement one tenth of the size.

uck51js9zml2yt

Peregrinus wrote: »

They're apparently going to construct social housing on the site. You reckon actual housing is too good for the undeserving poor, and they should have to make do with jerry-built hostels?

Source to the building of hostels ??

screamer

Not surprising. I remember when they refurbished that cathedral that burnt down in Westmeath I think it was and the money spent on it was absolutely outrageous. Italian specialists brought over to do the marble etc. I thought to myself what a waste of money (millions) and who needs a church that big? It should have been demolished and down sized after all you don't need a huge church or be a mass goer to have faith......

Peregrinus

Alicia Defeated Sock wrote: »

Source to the building of hostels ??

Your wish is my command!

Peregrinus

smacl wrote: »

Depends on whether one provides immediate accommodation for those with an immediate and urgent need versus a better solution at some point in the future. The choice between a hostel and a proper home is a simple one, the choice between a hostel and a building site with the promise of a home which may well go to someone else is less simple.

Especially if you are the someone else!

I agree, you can debate whether the need is greater for hostel accommodation or for social housing, and you can debate the trade-off between poor-quality but immediate accommodation and better quality accommodation that won't be available until a later date.

But in those debates the fact that the property is at present used as a church is irrelevant. You could have those debates in relation to any property which it is proposed to use for social housing, or which it is proposed to use for the provision of hostel accommodation, or indeed which it is proposed to use for a school or a hospital or a cinema or a shop or a pub. But in discussing alternative future uses for the site, the present use which is to be abandoned is not terribly relevant, so far as I can see.

smacl

Peregrinus wrote: »

But in those debates the fact that the property is at present used as a church is irrelevant.

True, but the argument is more about any large property that isn't being used, which I gather is the case for many such churches. The fact that they're not alone in this regard makes them no better or worse than any large NAMA property. The difference I suppose is that the NAMA property is owned by the state on behalf of the people and will be used to pay off the countries debts. The church property on the other hand has been paid for and funded by local community but is owned by the RCC/CoI, so the local community don't have control of its best use when it is no longer being used as a church.

Peregrinus

I think kylith's suggestion that the property be used as a hostel was a bit knee-jerk. First of all, it suggests that she was ignorant of the existing intention to use it for social housing. Secondly, it's not that well-thought-out. "Sticking in a few floors" into a building of that size and design isn't a simple or cheap operation - not if you want the building to stay up. The load-bearing walls will not have been constructed to support "a few floors". And hostels require more than "a few floors"; they need kitchens, toilets, showers, associated plumbing. They need to be brought to to building and fire codes that apply to buildings used for accommodation. If you have that amount of money to spend on repurposing this property, turning the existing structure into a hostel for the homeless is unlikely to be the optimal way to spend it. Just sayin'.

As for church property not being controlled by the local community - no, it isn't. (Neither is state property, if it comes to that.) But despite not being controlled by the local community, a very large chunk of church property is used for social and community purposes - schools, colleges, hospitals, hostels, residential care and more besides - so there is clearly no reluctance on the part of the church to use church property for social purposes. This is frequently the very purpose for which they acquire the property in the first place. The suggestion that redundant church buildings should also be used for this purpose is worth considering but, for the reasons just pointed out, may not be all that practical.

(Nor, if we're honest, would it necessarily reflect "the wishes of the local community". I have a suspicion that turning this church into a large hostel for the homeless might be greeted by the local community with mixed feelings. The social housing proposal might have greater local appeal.)

recedite

Peregrinus wrote: »

They're apparently going to construct social housing on the site.

Isn't there a requirement for every developer to build a certain amount of "social/affordable housing" when they build?

recedite

Peregrinus wrote: »

Tithes were local; the tithes collected in the Parish of St Recedite went first of all to that Parish.

That money disappeared without trace, but we are assured that it was spent on a good cause.

Hotblack Desiato

Nice car Rec

robindch

An anti-fascist flick produced by the US military in 1947 has been gaining coverage over the last few days. Relevant footage starts from 2:20:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23X14HS4gLk

Elsewhere, Bush the Younger, no friend in former times of this forum, has spoken about the casual degradation of public discourse and the fabrication of facts to suit political opinions.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-41687716/george-w-bush-decries-bigotry-and-conspiracy-theories

GW Bush wrote:

Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions. [...] White Supremacy, in any form, is blasphemy against the American creed.

It's not always Churchillian, but it is uncharacteristically accurate.

Hotblack Desiato

Things are bad if W seems like the voice of reason.

Edit: that video portraying the Nazis as anti-catholic is not really wholly accurate, is it...

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

That money disappeared without trace, but we are assured that it was spent on a good cause.

I've been told it was just resting in your account?