The end is nigh for anyone who lamps at night

cavan shooter

Read this the other day and to say I was pissed off is mild. Where the hell is the Sports Coalition/NARGC/IFA etc and our so called representatives in all of this.

If this spreads, I know 3 sheep farmers whom I lamp foxes for are going to be pissed off.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/rural-life/gardai-clamping-down-on-lamping-saying-it-allows-opportunistic-activity-35411667.html

Rosahane

cavan shooter wrote: »

Read this the other day and to say I was pissed off is mild. Where the hell is the Sports Coalition/NARGC/IFA etc and our so called representatives in all of this.

If this spreads, I know 3 sheep farmers whom I lamp foxes for are going to be pissed off.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/rural-life/gardai-clamping-down-on-lamping-saying-it-allows-opportunistic-activity-35411667.html

I don't think it's targeted at shooters with landowner permission, rather those who might "travel" a bit.

flutered

you have got the wrong end of the story, its not you and guys like you who are under survellance, they are trying to affect the crowd using rabbit chasing with lurchers, as a cover for casing out places, would they be refering to the country cousins by any chance

cavan shooter

Its the thin end of the wedge....all it takes is an over zealous young fella with an ill fitting uniform and your day could be ruined.

I have heard it from good Authority that any shooting at night is going to be banned as it is "Dangerous" when I queried this approach with the man that told me, his answer was quite simple....if its banned you have no good reason to be out at night.....Thats a bit unfair says I, he quipped it makes life easier for me.

the_syco

Gardai say it is “an opportunistic activity” in that it provides an excuse for people to trespass onto lands, allowing some to use the excuse they were looking for their dog.

“It gives people good scope to look around,” Garda Marcus Twomey of Tralee Gardaí said.

Sounds like the Gardai are being fairly proactive about this! To be fair, seeing someone on your land who has torch and a gun with a high powered light would scare most people.

cavan shooter

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like the Gardai are being fairly proactive about this! To be fair, seeing someone on your land who has torch and a gun with a high powered light would scare most people.

Im sorry i see it differently, we are all painted with the same brush, anyone out at night is up to something.

Its like saying guns are dangerous ban them..and from my conversations with a few lads there is going to be a rocky road ahead.

A few weeks ago it was on the grapevine we were going to have to contact the local barracks to say we are out lamping; where and for how long, again this was something that is being passed of by lads as ....a yeah whats the harm. Well where does it stop......ringing the local station and telling them your going after wood cock on saturday between the hours of x and y or that your going shooting pigeons or ducks. If we don't start shouting now it will sneak up on us and then people will start crying foul too late.

cookimonster

I don't think this is a direct threat to guys legally lamping. It is a vague and weak article that does not focus on a particular fact or circumstance. I would be inclined to say that this is aimed at people who are lamping with dogs illegally i.e. unauthorised entry onto land, targeting of protected species etc. This is a problem around the country with lads poaching, in all senses of the term using dogs and lamps.

If lads are out lamping with dogs or guns and have permission to do so, are sensible in their practice, not lighting up houses and road ways, then there is little concern from the general public especially the locals as they are well aware of the comings and goings in their communities. There is, as we see here every now and again, the uninitiated that may come across genuine sports men hunting at night that through ignorance may be 'concerned'. But as with all activates there are also some clowns out and about at night, legally, that would do our sport no justice.

I've had a few section 42's allowing use of the lamp and night time shooting. The exercise of the license requires the nominated stalker to notify the local Game Warden and Garda Station. I just tell them when I'm starting and when I will be finished. Sometimes they look for a contact number other times its 'right so, best of luck'.


Is there not a thread here that talked about the securing of a license or permit to lamp at night using a vehicle? I'm all for this, not so much the vehicle, although it would save my feet, but to go forth with a piece of paper in hand to act some what as a 'due diligence'. As you may know from my other posts I'm an avid proponent of the derogation on wild birds and would always recommend that shooters have a copy to hand for those awkward moments where you may have to defend your actions to the uninitiated.

Nekarsulm

You could ring our local station till doomsday, Guard only there for a few hours every coup!e of days.

Mountainsandh

What if there was an online register sort of thing where you could clock in ? That way if I, as a worried resident, rang the guards, they would be able to check my area to see if anyone has clocked in. Something that you guys could do with a mobile phone, like checking in a location on Facebook, that wouldn't be too much inconvenience, no ?

In my area there have been a spate of robberies, and I'm in a prime location for lampers.

Some were nearby the other day, and drove away like in a movie when I spotted them and shone a torch back at them. They were trespassing, but I suspect they must also have been scouting.

It's not fair to put residents in a situation where they don't know if they're being scouted or not when a simple phonecall to the guards, or like that, an online note, would clarify things.

Hunters are not responsible for the insecurity of our days, but I'm sure some could also be victims. Letting someone know you'll be around an area at a certain time is not that big an ask.

cavan shooter

Good idea...... log on when your going out after ducks....you might be upsetting the fisherman....log on when your after woodcock....you might be upsetting the xyz....lads this won't stop at lamping mark my words.....to quote Frazer from Dad's Army were dooooomed........this is about ****ing over law abiding shooters to get at a minority.

Mountainsandh

cavan shooter wrote: »

Good idea...... log on when your going out after ducks....you might be upsetting the fisherman....log on when your after woodcock....you might be upsetting the xyz....lads this won't stop at lamping mark my words.....to quote Frazer from Dad's Army were dooooomed........this is about ****ing over law abiding shooters to get at a minority.

Unfortunately Cavan shooter, there's many situations when law abiding people are being inconvenienced because of a minority.

For example campervan owners who have very few wild camping options left because of a minority of badly behaving "other" camper owners.

I don't see why logging in should be such a big issue if it's made easy by some kind of software, or some such.

Would you not care at all that you're upsetting law abiding, have-not-asked-for-anything people in their homes ?

The pigeon man

Mountainsandh wrote: »

What if there was an online register sort of thing where you could clock in ? That way if I, as a worried resident, rang the guards, they would be able to check my area to see if anyone has clocked in. Something that you guys could do with a mobile phone, like checking in a location on Facebook, that wouldn't be too much inconvenience, no ?

In my area there have been a spate of robberies, and I'm in a prime location for lampers.

Some were nearby the other day, and drove away like in a movie when I spotted them and shone a torch back at them. They were trespassing, but I suspect they must also have been scouting.

It's not fair to put residents in a situation where they don't know if they're being scouted or not when a simple phonecall to the guards, or like that, an online note, would clarify things.

Hunters are not responsible for the insecurity of our days, but I'm sure some could also be victims. Letting someone know you'll be around an area at a certain time is not that big an ask.

I don't really like the idea of an online register, it's yet another inconvenience for law abiding sports men and women.

The same argument could be made for cars in a rural area. By your logic people should sign in while driving in the countryside so that they don't cause undue insecurity when an elderly woman or man sees the headlights of a car, coming down the road near their house, at night, in a remote area.

The Gardaí could then make inquiries as to why the person was driving in the area.

Mountainsandh

Ah in fairness, there is a difference between a man or men going around a field at the back of your house with a super powerful torch light, and guns, and a car passing on the road.

Do you guys not have elderly parents, relatives, or friends in rural homes ?
Or wives, who are staying by themselves in the house ?

The only reason this is coming up now is because of the scumbags who scout. The guards are also of the opinion they scout, they have been caught shining lamps at people's homes.

Do hunters not care that they may be causing upset ?

I'm not talking about a public log in, but rather a private register that only the guards can access. If it's as easy as checking in on Facebook in fairness, you'd want to be pretty uncaring to make a fuss about it.

I take photos as a hobby. I'm very conscious of people who might be suspicious of someone parking, then pacing around, stopping, starting again, and generally snooping around an area, even though I stick to public areas.

If I was told to check in online after a certain hour (say after sunset), and it's something I could do on my phone in an instant, I'd do it.
Yes, bit of an inconvenience, what has the world come to, eh ? but at the same time, if this means the locals are reassured, then fair enough.

I get just as annoyed at these unfair demands on us because of a minority of scumbags, but I know a lot of elderly people in our rural parts, and I spend a good bit of time alone with the kids in the house myself, and I understand the worry.

dodderangler

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like the Gardai are being fairly proactive about this! To be fair, seeing someone on your land who has torch and a gun with a high powered light would scare most people.

It's for this reason that I always knock into my permission owners house first to tell him that I am out and about. Because normally if a neighbour sees me on his land they'll ring him and he lets them know that it's ok it's just me. Or he tells them it's that gonshîte again with his gun it's fine. One or the other

Nekarsulm

Anyone who drives about and shines a lamp on peoples houses, for any longer than an accidental instant, is a twit.
And an ignorant twit at that.

Have done some lamping in my younger days, and we would never shine it on a house.
A bit of consideration goes a long way.

Mountainsandh

Nekarsulm, the ones we have are the type to be lamping from the back of a pick up truck. True story. Cowboy style.

So of course, it doesn't inspire trust. That, and the number of burglaries right at the same time as a recrudescence of lamping.

I've asked the local farmer before, but he's vague and just says there's a local lad that comes up once in a while to hunt on his land. I never know if lampers are legit or not. I'd love to know.

Also there's a lane near my house, on same farmer's land, that looks onto a forestry. Lampers go up that lane to shoot into the woods. Scouting aside, it would help if I knew who has permission on that forestry, since I presume it's not fox they're shooting into the woods at night with lamps. I'm guessing whoever has that permission would rather manage the deer population themselves. I might be able to help, but that's not much good if the local hunter(s) never introduces themselves.

I've been told by the guards and a hunter I only met this week (not the local guy) to ring in whatever lamping I see, so that's what I'm going to do anyway.

Nekarsulm

Yeah, we re driving around in the back of a pick-up LandRover at the time.
Would be doing just the local roads, many of which fronted land owned by some of those present in the jeep.

Its always a point of contention if its illegal to shoot from the public road .
Here is a thread from ten years ago.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054905149

In fairness, things were different then, as there was nobody living in the countryside who wasn't locally born and bred, or from an agri. background.

Now its all changed, a neighbour was reported to the Dept. Ag. at Christmas, by a new neighbour, who complained about two pigs he was fattening.
The dept. seized both pigs, and a dozen ducks plus two geese, and all were destroyed. He hadn't applied for the proper permission to keep a)Pigs nor b)Fowl.
Relations are now, shall we say, "strained"!

Mountainsandh

I have been told quite clearly by the guards and the hunter this week that it is completely illegal.

edit : I read the thread. Not much the wiser, but I'll trust my local guards and part-local hunter.
I'm supposed to report every lamping I see anyway, so let them sort the ins and outs if there's more to it for now, when there's a lot of stress and fear about strangers in our parts.

Kat1170

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I have been told quite clearly by the guards and the hunter this week that it is completely illegal.

edit : I read the thread. Not much the wiser, but I'll trust my local guards and part-local hunter.
I'm supposed to report every lamping I see anyway, so let them sort the ins and outs if there's more to it for now, when there's a lot of stress and fear about strangers in our parts.

Lamping rabbits, foxes is perfectly legal. Lamping deers is, 99% of the time, not.

Ringing the Guard every time you see a light. That might not work out quite the way you expect. Did you ever hear of the boy who cried Wolf.

Mountainsandh

Kat1170 wrote: »

Lamping rabbits, foxes is perfectly legal. Lamping deers is, 99% of the time, not.

Ringing the Guard every time you see a light. That might not work out quite the way you expect. Did you ever hear of the boy who cried Wolf.

Apparently none of that applies right now in my area. As I said the guards requested that. They will clear the legit cases themselves they said.

Of course legit lampers can prevent all this with a simple phonecall before heading out, but if you're in my area and the phone call was too much hassle, you're likely to get a visit from an unmarked garda car patrolling the local country roads.

Nekarsulm

Actually, in a rural area, you are highly UNLIKLEY to encounter a Gardai car patrolling the area.

cavan shooter

[QUOTEOf course legit lampers can prevent all this with a simple phone call before heading out.[/QUOTE]

Ill say it again...

So when next I go shooting Ducks, pheasant or woodcock or Pigeons do I ring the Barracks?...someone will say only for a night flight.

Should a deer stalker ring the Barracks when he goes stalking... (deer)??Man with high powered "snipers weapon (very dangerous) in forested area at dusk and dawn carrying a knife dressed in camo.... that should be banned too

Should a fisherman ring the Barracks?

Someone is driving this and I am not convinced it has anything to do with skobies casing peoples houses and I suspect its poaching of deer.

I don't hear the Sports Coalition crying foul that legitimate members are being demonised, same way that a compulsory shooting/test is being proposed which will be re done periodically is being muted and I hear nothing of this either.

Cass

Only jumping in to this half way through so apologies for any repeats.

cavan shooter wrote: »

If this spreads, I know 3 sheep farmers whom I lamp foxes for are going to be pissed off.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/rural-life/gardai-clamping-down-on-lamping-saying-it-allows-opportunistic-activity-35411667.html

The article seems to be targeting lads with dogs. Trespassers at that. No mention of firearms.

cavan shooter wrote: »

Its the thin end of the wedge....all it takes is an over zealous young fella with an ill fitting uniform and your day could be ruined.

If you know you're right, no it won't.

I have heard it from good Authority that any shooting at night is going to be banned as it is "Dangerous" ................

I've heard this nonsense and similar sh*t thrown around for the past ten years. "People in the know", etc. Unless it's a Minister you were talking to, ignore it. It's just someone with a little knowledge which we all know is a dangerous things.

cavan shooter wrote: »

Im sorry i see it differently, we are all painted with the same brush, anyone out at night is up to something.

True.

cookimonster wrote: »

Is there not a thread here that talked about the securing of a license or permit to lamp at night using a vehicle?

This one.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

What if there was an online register sort of thing where you could clock in ? ............... Something that you guys could do with a mobile phone, like checking in a location on Facebook,................... ?

Absolutely not.

You essentially want us to GPS locate/track ourselves? Not a chance. The other side, more practical, is how many lad could use it, could access it, would remember to, and have the ability to? I get no phone signal on a lot of my permissions, and absolutely no internet coverage. An awful lot of lads don't use social media or are not computer literate. You're thinking of the shooting community in terms of early 20s. With everyone with a smart phone.

The truth is the average would be higher and only a small amount would be able to do what you suggest regardless of whether they agree with it or not.

In my area there have been a spate of robberies, and I'm in a prime location for lampers.

So are you equating burglars to lampers which by naming both in the same sentence you have just done, or saying that lamping should be stopped to make sure only the burglars have lamps?

Same attitude people have to guns. Get rid of all guns and gun crime will somehow magically stop.

It's not fair to put residents in a situation where they don't know if they're being scouted or not when a simple phonecall to the guards, or like that, an online note, would clarify things.

Nor is it fair to harass legitimate people out enjoying a legitimate sport out of fear, paranoia.

It's a light. Unless they are kicking in your back door, it's only a light.

Hunters are not responsible for the insecurity of our days, but I'm sure some could also be victims. Letting someone know you'll be around an area at a certain time is not that big an ask.

Not for some, but it should be voluntary with no registry, no onus, or no commitment to do so.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Unfortunately Cavan shooter, there's many situations when law abiding people are being inconvenienced because of a minority.

Name one other sport or better again, section of society, that has to bend as much as the shooting community, that has had so much taken and been treated so unfairly all to allay the unfounded fears of the general public? All because of the tools we use.

I don't see why logging in should be such a big issue if it's made easy by some kind of software, or some such.

Se above comment on ability, access, coverage, etc.

Cass

Would you not care at all that you're upsetting law abiding, have-not-asked-for-anything people in their homes ?

None of us go out of our way to cause problems. In fact we work fairly hard to avoid interaction at all. However i refuse to be further penalised due to the impotence of our national police force and parks services to adequately do their jobs.

The NPWS recently posted looking for rangers. Did you know in the Laois/Offaly area there is not one ranger. NONE. Some areas are getting more attention that others while the rest go without coverage at all. This reporting or tracking nonsense is a way for them to have their jobs done for them.

Plus if something happens, like with all legally held guns, what are the chances it'll be us? By us i mean the general us or the one that registered online where they'll be?

It's a joke, a way for the authorities to have the public police itself.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Nekarsulm, the ones we have are the type to be lamping from the back of a pick up truck. True story. Cowboy style.

Lamping from a vehicle is illegal. Can be done a very limited basis and only under license from the Minister.

So of course, it doesn't inspire trust. That, and the number of burglaries right at the same time as a recrudescence of lamping.

There it is again. Lampers = Burglars.

I never know if lampers are legit or not. I'd love to know.

If they're on his land, it's none off your business.

Also there's a lane near my house, on same farmer's land, that looks onto a forestry. Lampers go up that lane to shoot into the woods. Scouting aside, it would help if I knew who has permission on that forestry

Not your land, not your business.

, since I presume it's not fox they're shooting into the woods at night with lamps.

So not just burglars, but also lamping "something else"?

I'm guessing whoever has that permission would rather manage the deer population themselves. I might be able to help, but that's not much good if the local hunter(s) never introduces themselves.

Have you seen poaching of deer? If so ring the NPWS and Gardaí and report it.

If not then you're only speculating and giving the innuendos above i think i've heard enough of assumptions and guesses.

I've been told by the guards and a hunter I only met this week (not the local guy) to ring in whatever lamping I see, so that's what I'm going to do anyway.

This is exactly the problem. You don't know what is going on, have no business knowing as it's not your land, make unbased connections between lampers and burglars and poachers and so are going to ring the Gardaí so you can feel "safe" and that you've accomplished something.

You may even find out what they were doing. IOW you'll keep interrupting the guys out lamping in the hope that you'll drive them off land you don't own, via the Gardaí/harassment, all out of some fear based paranoia about a light that may or may not be shone on your home.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Yeah, we re driving around in the back of a pick-up LandRover at the time.

Illegal dude.

Its always a point of contention if its illegal to shoot from the public road .
Here is a thread from ten years ago.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054905149

No idea what those guys were talking about but it's totally illegal. Section 36 of the 1976 act, amended by 44/45 of the 2000 amendment act and that is without taking dangerous discharge of a firearm into account.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I'm supposed to report every lamping I see anyway, so let them sort the ins and outs if there's more to it for now, when there's a lot of stress and fear about strangers in our parts.

This sickens me. When my sister's home was broken into the Crhistmas before last do you thinki had to wait for almost two hours for a patrol car to come from two districts across because they "busy" even though she told them on the phone the burglars were actually still in the house when she pulled up.

So rural areas that have seen a huge close down in Garda stations and an almost 100% drop in service from An Gardaí can feel safe and sound cause they're going to respond to every call about someone with a light in a field?

Sweet baby Jesus.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Of course legit lampers can prevent all this with a simple phonecall before heading out, but if you're in my area and the phone call was too much hassle, you're likely to get a visit from an unmarked garda car patrolling the local country roads.

Nice veiled threat.

So this "voluntary" registry has already turned into do it or we'll make you suffer.

I'm telling you now, from me. I will NEVER do this. EVER. Not simply to be argumentative, but in this case i'll make an exception, because there is no legislation to support such a ban/registry.

cavan shooter wrote: »

I don't hear the Sports Coalition crying foul that legitimate members are being demonised, .................

Yeah, won't even touch that one.

cavan shooter

Cass...I appreciate your comments but remember a couple of years ago semi auto shotguns where being banned...along with some other categories and as clubs we were all out collecting signatures. Rumours in this country tend to have a big grain if not a nugget of truth in it...

Mountainsandh

Wow what knee jerk reactions there.
I thought it was clear from my posts that I have no problem with legal hunters, lamping or not. The lane I am talking about is about 20 meters from my house, so yes, indeed, it is my problem, plus the fact that the farmer who owns that land wishes to be informed.

If you read my posts with a cooler head, you would have noticed I mentioned that it's only now, and at the guards and local hunter's request, that I have to ring systematically. In the past I assumed the lampers were legit, and only rang when they lamped from a vehicle. The farmer also made it clear to let him know about people on his land, so rather than ring the guards I let him know the other times and he rang.

Yes I put the 2 words in the same sentence, because I was at a community meeting this week where the guards, and the local hunter, put the 2 together and requested us all to ring.

Communication with the public would be a lot smoother if you managed to keep your cool instead of the tirades above.

Mountainsandh

Also, in light of the recent events in my community, there are 2 unmarked garda cars patrolling every night. It was not a threat, just a statement. I have to ring, the gardai are patrolling, that's the situation.

Cass

cavan shooter wrote: »

Cass...I appreciate your comments but remember a couple of years ago semi auto shotguns where being banned.

They were not being banned. It was a rumor started by someone, that knew someone, that knew someone in the know. It then took legs, and got everyone all worked up.

.along with some other categories and as clubs we were all out collecting signatures.

Yet despite this the so called sports coalition never made any attempt to counter the proposal on semi auto shotguns in their proposals and nothing ever happened.

Why?

Because it was a David Copperfield. IOW the DoJ.AGS wanted us all looking at the semi auto shotgun ban, along with the other categories they wanted gone. Then when they only go after the smaller categories and leave the semi autos alone we are under the false impression we've won a victory when in fact they had no intention of touching them.

Think about it, trying to ban some 8,000 firearms versus 167. Easier to get rid of the 167 if everyone thinks that the 8,000 are safe.

Plus all of it came to nothing in the end. The sports coalition, God bless them, though re-ignitied that fire with a call for illegal caps, illegal licensing, further restrictions on pistols and security.

So you'll forgive me if i don't join you in wanting the "sports coalition" to do any-f**king-thing else.

PS - Excuse the language, but that "group" is a dangerous joke.

I agree with you completely on refusing to entertain such a ridiculous and insulting notion as registering myself whenever i decide to go for a shot. I also agree that its a dangerous and slippery slope and should we cede even one more inch there will be no stopping what comes next.

Remember all this is being done without legislative support. IOW some NPWS or AGS member is making these things up and forcing those not in the know to abide by them.

Have a read of Battlecorp's thread where the same happened him about land permissions. See post 36 for the result when he refused to bow to their whims.

Cass

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Wow what knee jerk reactions there.

The posts have been up for a day or more and i took my time to cover everything you said. Not knee jerk at all.

I thought it was clear from my posts that I have no problem with legal hunters, lamping or not. The lane I am talking about is about 20 meters from my house, so yes, indeed, it is my problem, plus the fact that the farmer who owns that land wishes to be informed.

No, what came across was a smile and a head nod while associating people that lamp to burglars and making accusations about them not actual shooting foxes in a or near a forest., IOW you are implying they are poaching deer.

If you read my posts with a cooler head,

Perfectly calm. The fact you are trying to imply otherwise without answering all my points show you don't have answers or did not read the whole thing.

In the past I assumed the lampers were legit,

Lamping is "legit". What you are referring to is trespassing and i'd appreicate if you made the distinction.

and only rang when they lamped from a vehicle.

Again, legal under most circumstances. Checking livestock, etc. So each time you see it and ring you make the assumption the person is shooting/hunting from the vehicle or is doing so without the proper license(s).

The farmer also made it clear to let him know about people on his land, so rather than ring the guards I let him know the other times and he rang.

You said above he doesn't know the people on his own land. If he talks to everyone he gave permission to, then revokes it from the all, anyone on the land is trespassing. When those that trespass are aught the land owner can allow the lads he trusts back onto his land.

Yes I put the 2 words in the same sentence, because I was at a community meeting this week where the guards, and the local hunter, put the 2 together and requested us all to ring.

They made the same assumptions you did, such as:

mountainsandh wrote:

So of course, it doesn't inspire trust. That, and the number of burglaries right at the same time as a recrudescence of lamping.

Communication with the public would be a lot smoother if you managed to keep your cool instead of the tirades above.

Accusing me of loosing my cool to cover your own actions is a weak and pointless exercise.

You have called lampers illegal, are ringing the Gardaí (via the land owner) for those engaged in legal activity, have likened or outright called lampers no better or actual burglars, and then accused lampers of poaching deer.

Perhaps this communication you speak off would also be a lot smoother if the general public, namely YOU, were not so quick to used veiled and not so veiled insults and threats. Your "won't someone please think of the children" argument holds no water and by the tone of your posts you simply want to know what is going on and it's more a case of being nosey rather than having a legitimate safety concern.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Also, in light of the recent events in my community, there are 2 unmarked garda cars patrolling every night. It was not a threat, just a statement. I have to ring, the gardai are patrolling, that's the situation.

Great to see such a waste of Garda time. Checking those out lamping. Can't get a Garda in less than two hours when your home is broken into, but good to know people won't walk across a field with a light without being checked. You know, in case they steal some grass.

Some people have little to be worried about.

td5

I can't see a problem with either informing the Gards before going out lamping or encountering the Gards while out lamping. If you have permission to be on the land. Its the cowboys with the "We will go were we like attitude " that spoils it for everyone else and there are plenty of those type about.

cavan shooter

Cass wrote:

PS - Excuse the language, but that "group" is a dangerous joke.

I can't disagree with that one.....they are doing more damage than good....I made my point on that more than once.

cavan shooter

td5 wrote:

I can't see a problem with either informing the Gards before going out lamping or encountering the Gards while out lamping. If you have permission to be on the land. Its the cowboys with the "We will go were we like attitude " that spoils it for everyone else and there are plenty of those type about.

I will say it again why tell them. Should a deer stalker have to tell the Gardai they are shooting deer, or a pheasant shooter, game shooter or pigeon/duck shooter tell the Gardai they are going shooting.....or a clay pigeon shooter.

I have met the Gardai out lamping no bother...fact is lamping foxes at night is an effective and legitimate method of controlling foxes.

Same way as a fox drive is too.

dodderangler

On my rabbit permission last year I was called into the house. He asked me to let him know if I ever see anyone about. 30 pheasants killed and taken from a pen ( melanistics and some whites ) and a attempted robbery on a defender. They thought it was me with the lamp. This is why I always ring.

Mountainsandh

A terrible attitude, and I hope not all hunters approach the general public in your manner Cass.

Instead of saying knee-jerk I should have said agressive.

Cass wrote: »

The posts have been up for a day or more and i took my time to cover everything you said. Not knee jerk at all.

No, what came across was a smile and a head nod while associating people that lamp to burglars and making accusations about them not actual shooting foxes in a or near a forest., IOW you are implying they are poaching deer.

Of course I am absolutely implying they are poaching deer, I am also implying these are poachers, and possibly burglars.

It's not to say that I consider hunters like that. You do not come across as "perfectly calm", you come across as overly reactive to comments about poachers/lampers/burglars, ie pretty much paranoid about it.

I have made it clear that I have no way to know if they are legit, and since, after communication with the farmer, I know they are trespassing, and since, also, they fled the scene like actors in an action movie, I can reasonably assume they are not. The guards agreed, and the local hunter, in fact they were more certain about this than I was, and I was a bit remonstrated about not ringing the same night (I left it until the next day, mentioned it to the community alert people, who said to ring the guards as the guards wanted to know every little thing that happened in the community).

Lamping is "legit". What you are referring to is trespassing and i'd appreicate if you made the distinction.

These people who are trespassing are lamping. I am talking about people who are lamping, and trespassing, and possibly scouting at the same time. I am not implying they are legal hunters. The guards were not implying they were legal hunters, and ... the hunter didn't imply they were hunters.

Again, legal under most circumstances. Checking livestock, etc. So each time you see it and ring you make the assumption the person is shooting/hunting from the vehicle or is doing so without the proper license(s).

I saw the guys with the guns pointed out at the back of the vehicle.
I know the local farmer's cars/pick ups.
Incidentally he never lamps into his own land to check on livestock, he just drives in there with the tractor.

You said above he doesn't know the people on his own land. If he talks to everyone he gave permission to, then revokes it from the all, anyone on the land is trespassing. When those that trespass are aught the land owner can allow the lads he trusts back onto his land.

He is vague about it with me, I didn't say he doesn't know the people on his land, he just seems to think it's not that important to give me a name, and frankly it isn't, I couldn't care less. The way his farm is, he can only see part of it from his house. He relies on me to tell him if I spot anyone on the bits near me. Since the young lad who hunts on his land lets him know beforehand, and I meet the farmer most days on the road, he's able to tell me if there might be hunters some week-ends (it seems to be mostly week-ends). Having said that, there could be days when I don't meet him and then I might not know if someone was due on his land, so I'm always a bit uncertain. Thankfully I can text his wife and she lets him know.

One day 3 cars and vans came, stopped and blocked the road, and let dogs out into his land. I felt mortified afterwards when I asked him about it and he said he didn't know anything about it and was pretty annoyed. The guys were so brazen about it I assumed they were legit. I have stopped assuming that way, and now I assume the other way unless I'm told beforehand.

Accusing me of loosing my cool to cover your own actions is a weak and pointless exercise.

You have called lampers illegal, are ringing the Gardaí (via the land owner) for those engaged in legal activity, have likened or outright called lampers no better or actual burglars, and then accused lampers of poaching deer.

Again you are over-reacting. My own action is to do what I am asked to do by the local farmer, and the community alert scheme, ie guards + a hunter. (the hunter guy is in the committee)
Again the lampers I am talking about are illegal. Some lampers are legal, some are illegal. These lampers are illegal. I have been told to assume so on Tuesday, by gardai and a hunter.
I don't know how I could sugarcoat this to make it more palatable.
I am aware that some lampers do so legally.
I fully understand that lamping is part of a perfectly legal hunting activity, provided it's not for deer, and provided people are not trespassing.

These lampers are trespassing for sure, and possibly poaching deer.
They are lampers, they are illegally there, and likely to be poaching.
The association with legal hunters that you are on about is really in your head, I am quite clear about the difference.

The guards already know that there is poaching going on in my area, but because it wasn't associated with burglaries happening left right and center, they didn't seem to take action about it. Now that there's a feeling of insecurity around, they put two and two together, and tell us to look out for poachers or lampers and let them know.
They will be the ones to check it out, and let legal lampers merrily lamp.

If I got a phonecall from my farmer or the guards telling me there are guys going to be lamping tonight in that land, I would just say : "oh that's great, thanks for letting me know".
That's as simple as that.
If I have to ring the guards because I see lamps tonight, and they (or the farmer) get back on to me and say : "yeah, they're legit", I'll just go back to drinking my tea and watching Netflix.

I am not going to be outside with placards asking the guys to desist.

Perhaps this communication you speak off would also be a lot smoother if the general public, namely YOU, were not so quick to used veiled and not so veiled insults and threats. Your "won't someone please think of the children" argument holds no water and by the tone of your posts you simply want to know what is going on and it's more a case of being nosey rather than having a legitimate safety concern.

There are no insults and no threats, veiled or not. The situation is that I have to alert the guards, and they are going to check it out. This is done to ensure the safety of every one in the community since a gang has been going around terrorizing older folks in particular. It's not a sob story about people not liking a guy with a gun next field to them, because they're afraid the gun will go off.

This is about people who have been broken into already, sometimes assaulted. We don't want that to happen again, and people are alert to every bit of activity, especially in the darker hours. I have friends who are in their 70s, and they're afraid. Not of hunters, but yes of lampers, because lampers have shown lamps at houses recently. Not the legal lampers, the illegal ones.
These country folks are not afraid of hunters, sure a lot of them are hunters or know some. But they are afraid of lampers currently. Illegal ones.

I couldn't give a rat's arse who's going around doing the hunting, as long as I knew they're legal. Same with my older friends and neighbours with young families.

At the moment we have been told to take a phone pic of registration plates of every unusual parked car in the community.
As an amateur photographer myself, I was laughing that my car may well have been photographed dozens of times in other communities in the same predicament. This is the climate around my place right now.

Great to see such a waste of Garda time. Checking those out lamping. Can't get a Garda in less than two hours when your home is broken into, but good to know people won't walk across a field with a light without being checked. You know, in case they steal some grass.
Some people have little to be worried about.

Well, that's the guards you're talking about here.

We thought the gang was caught at the start of last week, some people had been caught, but they were released as they were not involved in the robberies. (these were not hunters)

Checking lamping at the moment is part of the investigation. As the guards see it, catching illegal lampers will help decide if they are the ones involved in the burglaries or not.
I am not making that up, it's what we were told.
Legal lampers and day hunters can continue to lamp and hunt to their hearts' content, once the guards and community know they've nothing to do with all that.
A phonecall on their part would save them from being stopped by an unmarked garda car, and so save on garda resources.

"Hi guard, I know there's been a bit of hassle over in ..... the last while, just to let you know I'll be hunting there tonight."
"Alright not a bother, thanks for letting us know, have fun".

Is that such an awful bother of a scenario ?

It's showing a bit of consideration for the community you're practicing your sport in, that' s being civic minded I guess. But you don't seem to care about that at all.

yubabill1

I think anyone who lives in the country has no time for these scouts.

Cass had a family member who was burgled, so he understands very well what is going on in your area OP.

We understand your concerns and those of your neighbours and the gardai.

I think it is enough for the locals to monitor lamping activity until these guys are caught. It would be a good idea for legit shooters to inform whoever they need to until the situation resolves, but on a voluntary and ad hoc basis.

I think legit lampers could be your best asset in this situation, but making notification compulsory would only evoke the typical Irish response to authority.

And remember, it was two lampers who intervened in Wicklow that led to Larry Murphy's arrest. It was disappointing that Gardai revoked their gun licences, though.

Hope these scouts get caught soon.

Mountainsandh

Yes I can understand how the suggestion to log in online or something might be borderline intrusive, or not practical.

In the meantime the quick phonecall, or a quick call into the farmer whose land lampers are going on would really help alleviate people's fears and pin crimes onto whoever does commit them.

Legit lampers and hunters in general would be a great asset alright, especially since our local burglars' modus operandi seems to be to spot properties prior, then come back later, park a car some way off, and walk through fields to enter properties from the back. That has repeatedly happened, and it makes spotting the cars difficult.

Hunters could very well find themselves in a position where they're the only witness to someone jumping over ditches in back fields. Farmers too I guess.

grassroot1

If I decide to go fox lamping at 10.30 at night (on a whim) I dont see why I as a firearm owner should have to tell anyone.
If there is a problem with deer poaching,robberies or any other anti social activities then it is the problem of the authorities and they should provide the resources to solve it.
And in addition if the sports coalition or anyone else think that interfering in fox control (night lamping) will solve deer poaching they are completely delusional.
rant over sorry

g00167015

Well said Grassroot.

DogfoxCork

"Those who were genuinely trying to get rabbits need have nothing to fear and would have no problem with Gardai approaching them, the Gardai said."

i dont think there is any implication in that article that the end is nigh for lamping... only that gardai are urging people to be more aware to dodgy behaviour, like pikeys scoping places out. a jeep in a field or smart lamping is probably not going to phase most folk. however waving a lamp around, being noisy and lamping up houses is definitely going to grab peoples attention.

*edit: And i see no mention of shotguns or rifles.

Cass

Mountainsandh, i'm not going to mulit-quote your posts above because frankly most of it is calling me names, making accusations that i've heard hundreds of times from people that cannot support a decent argument point so result to deflection by accusation.

What i will do reply in general.

You have from your first post made subtle references, implications, name associations, and veiled threat. Only when pushed by me did you decide to elaborate on all your previous comments by saying that there is, according to you, a burglary ring in your area and the Gardaí are actively patroling to cvombat this. Those out using a lamp are also being checked where possible to make sure they are not invovled.

Had you started with this information, regardless of its veracity, then any doubt or second guessing of your stand point might have been avoided. However none of it excuses the way you, not AGS or anyone else as it's you posting your opinions, have linked those that lamp to criminality, and poaching.

Your ignorance towards what is legal and what is not is making you use the term lampers incorrectly to the point you say some are legal and some are not. As i said above lamping is completely legal. The act of poaching is not. The act of hunting from a vehicle is not. So the use of a lamp in either scenario is secondary. Also those engaged in illegal activity are not lamping, they are breaking the law. So stop calling them lampers.

You resort at some point above to further innuendo about my defense of lampers, illegal, and how it must somehow pertain to me, Good one.

My defnese is off a sport that few understand, less wish to understand, but everyone is quick to condemn/blame. Without people lamping and doing vermin control the country would be awash with foxes, rabbits, and other vermin. Populations would explode, disease run rampant, and a cull would be necessary within 5 years. So to ban lamping at night is not only impractical, but stupid.

I could go on, but in an effort to save people reading another essay i'll wrap up. I will NEVER, EVER, register my location or intent to shoot with anyone at any time. Sports shooting contributes tens of millions of Euro per year to the exchequer. I am placed under constant scrutiny with warrantless home checks, having to divulge medical records, being background checked time and again. I do all this to continue in my sport and its enough.

Over the years the Gardaí have tried, and mostly failed, to introduce their own made up laws into firearm ownership. Some of it has been nipped in th bud nice and early, some has taken tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of Euro to fight in court. All because of the tools we use in our sport.

So yes i am defensive, and i will become aggressive in tone when necessary to defend my sport from the great unwashed/uneducated that are quick to point to the already burdened and demand more yet are prepared to cede nothing in return or by means of compromise.

DogfoxCork wrote: »

i dont think there is any implication in that article that the end is nigh for lamping...

*edit: And i see no mention of shotguns or rifles.

It's a nothing piece really.

It's like an article from a few weeks back were An Gardaí "appealed" for those that had no renewed their licenses to do so. Here is a good one for the Einstein that thought that would make a good article (both reporter and Garda press officer). It's yer jobs to make sure people have licenses, that they are up to date, and to remove firearms from those that don't have licenses.

The same with this article. Gets everyone in a flap, Gardaí get to take the temperature of the debate/topic by means of this forum and similar discussions elsewhere, people get a chance to call us nutters again, and in the end nothing will change.

Mountainsandh

This post looks completely irrational.


I have looked at this forum before to read a bit about poachers, so I know there are many rational posters on here, but your reaction above does not really show a flattering side of your sport.

Cass

More insult and deflection. Now you blame the sport for my personal comments.

That is okay though, i wouldn't expect you to accept responsibility for your comments..

Mountainsandh

Cass I'll have to refrain from posting either way as your posts are puzzling. There's nothing else I feel I can say to you anyway.

blackpearl

dodderangler wrote: »

On my rabbit permission last year I was called into the house. He asked me to let him know if I ever see anyone about. 30 pheasants killed and taken from a pen ( melanistics and some whites ) and a attempted robbery on a defender. They thought it was me with the lamp. This is why I always ring.

I would say it was a buzzard.

Captainaxiom

blackpearl wrote: »

I would say it was a buzzard.

You must be taking the proverbial,a buzzard taking 30 pheasants for a pen??

Cass

Everyone can now see i'm posting as a Moderator.

When i post as a regular poster, like in this thread so far, you'll see it is normal font and without a warning title.

As to the poster that decided it was their moral duty to come on here and lecture me as to what i can and cannot do.

No thanks.

If you've nothing to add to the thread topic then refrain from posting. Back seat moderating, telling someone when and how they must post, is a violation of the rules. You have not been infracted this time, but continue to disrupt the forum or thread and try to back seat moderate and infractions will be issued.

kunekunesika

Never coped the heavy font,is new to me, thanks for the clarification.

Cass

There has to be a differentiation of me (or any mod) writing as a Mod and a regular poster. Otherwise we could never post normally as everything we'd write would be classed as being "from a Mod" and held to such a stupid high standard we could never speak as ourselves. Granted people know this and still use it, but we're well used to the "You're a Mod, you should know better" attitude from them.

It's why all the Mods of the shooting forum will use heavy font, and give their post the title of "MOD NOTE". To make sure people know they are writing as a Mod.

It is also the reason every forum has more than one Mod. There are four on the shooting forum. There are also three Category mods that oversee the sports section. This way there is always someone impartial to turn to should anyone need a review and if a Moderator is already involved in the thread.

Grizzly 45

You would wonder that with the relatively cheap price of night vision these days,why the Hell anyone casing a farm or out poaching deer would want to advertise their presence by waving a damn spotlight about the countryside.
But I guess its Ireland...;)

listermint

So is it just accepted that if you buy a house in the country people can just walk across at night time with lamps and guns shooting on a whim.

I do comprehend the forum I'm now in but just reading the aggressive and selfish tone of the posts here opens your eyes to how one dimensional people are.

It's my sport f everyone else . With that attitude you wonder why changes in law's can get through so easily. Don't half make a case come across as unpopular with abrupt attitudes to anyone else not involved in the sport...


All things considered.

RossiFan08

listermint wrote: »

So is it just accepted that if you buy a house in the country people can just walk across at night time with lamps and guns shooting on a whim.

I do comprehend the forum I'm now in but just reading the aggressive and selfish tone of the posts here opens your eyes to how one dimensional people are.

It's my sport f everyone else . With that attitude you wonder why changes in law's can get through so easily. Don't half make a case come across as unpopular with abrupt attitudes to anyone else not involved in the sport...


All things considered.

If you read what Cass has said in this thread you will notice he has not once condoned any one walking across someones land on a whim. And he has in fact stated that people who partake in this are indeed breaking the law.

All of his points have been made with regards to lamping being carried out in a legal maner ie with the permission of the land owner and only taking safe shots.

I would agree with Cass statements and tone as uniformed opinions in Ireland have never helped with anything in Ireland and a lot of restrictions have been placed on the already strict firearm laws in Ireland due to them