Spring is here.

Widdershins

Graces7 wrote: »

Gorse is in flower all winter...

It can be for much of a mild winter. I've had rose blooming at Christmas. My point was that there's numerous other things in bud and flower now that would normally be dormant in Winter. Growth=Spring to me.

See the daffodils just about to bloom in the garden this morning, how can anyway say it's not spring.

Positively Negative

Maverick Old Frown wrote:

See the daffodils just about to bloom in the garden this morning, how can anyway say it's not spring.

My daffodils flowered fully in December a few years back, does that mean December was in Spring that year?

topper75

murpho999 wrote: »

I really don’t think Al Jazeera, RT, Huffington Post regard the change from Winter to Spring as a big news item nor do they have a major influence over Irish people’s thinking

Same as the EU: I really don’t think that the changing of seasons on Ireland is a major issue that they are trying to standardise. You are also completely wrong about the climate in Europe. The majority is not continental when you take the northern half of Europe into account.

There is nothing political in the timing of seasons.

As for Met Eireann, they are officially the official body in Ireland regarding weather and climate , so why are you using inverted commas? They are not guardians of traditions as you laughably say. They are scientists and I’m sure their work is independent from the government that you seem to think is trying to control the population via the setting of seasons.

The changing of seasons is based on Science, not traditions as you say.
Traditions are often based on religion or superstition and are totally unreliable.

Based on that I think it’s entirely logical that seasons are based on solstices as the earth has reached a point in its orbit around the sun.

Our seasons are also gradual and merge into each other. So a flower budding in February does not mean it’s Spring nor does snow in April mean it’s Winter

No foreign media certainly does influence Irish thinking hugely in a general sense. It may not make direct demands that we change our spring date, but the increasing influence does pave the way for rejection of how we have always done things and you can hear this in the very way that younger people speak.

Continental Europe has a continental climate oddly enough even northern Europe - cold winters, hot summers. Southern Europe has a Med climate. We and the Brits don't get those climates. No point pretending we are the same in that regard.

I'm not saying the EU has tried to change our observation of seasons here in any direct fashion. Rather I am warning about their homogenising federalist agenda and how they may find convenience in the erosion of Irish traditions that are at odds with continental Europe. I say - fear not being ourselves as we always have been. If Feb 1 is our spring - let them accept that and work around it rather than expecting us to wait until their March 21 say-so. We have danced to their tune enough to date with the km, kg, and € etc.

I used commas facetiously with Met Eireann. I understand what they are about and accept their official status, but their science around seasons isn't capable of outweighing thousands of year of Irish life and wisdom. Talk of a meteorological spring seems like a bit of joke in a country such as ours. Light levels have a far great bearing than weather. Anyway, MÉ are not pure scientists that you imagine - they are bound in the way that any government agency is. Where did the infamous weather warning colour codes come from - outside influence (Ireland is a participating country in meteoalarm.eu). Utterly inappropriate for us. Bit of wind and rain has a special warning colour attached. Laughable out here in the north west where its not far off default weather. :-) Orange how are you.

The Irish seasons aren't derived from religion of any kind as you suggest. Religions have indeed tried to assign their own significance to calendar days that were anciently observed e.g. St. Bridget's day, Beal Tine etc. But the quarter days we have today are rooted in observations going back millenia - there must have been six or seven millenia of cattle and farming at least. These ancestors of ours (yup even if you are a Dub!) watched signs in nature like hawks. Their livelihoods depended on it. Good enough for me anyway.

"So a flower budding in February does not mean it’s Spring nor does snow in April mean it’s Winter" - seems we are in agreement so that meteorological measures of season change aren't the best basis for seasons here on our island.

Robineen

Arabella Sparse Hemp wrote: »

See the daffodils just about to bloom in the garden this morning, how can anyway say it's not spring.

I've seen daffodils bloom in January.

I can get on board with February being Spring and November being Winter but to me, August is Summer. Despite the shorter days compared to June, it's usually a warmer month than June. And I'd see May more as a Spring month, it's often quite cold.

Mint Sauce

There's daffodils, the grass in my garden is starting to grow, but yet I have had to put the heating on.

March before I can start calling it spring for me.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

We have had Daffodils in January, Birds nesting in December, Snow in March. These are not signs of a season.

And the attribution of any such occupancies to markers of a season are pointless. So are beliefs that things like bird's nesting happening on a particular date every year. It's like people maintaining that the spuds have to be planted on St Patrick's day irrespective of the conditions - nonsense.

Robineen

Kailyn Quaint Pillowcase wrote: »

We have had Daffodils in January, Birds nesting in December, Snow in March. These are not signs of a season.

And the attribution of any such occupancies to markers of a season are pointless. So are beliefs that things like bird's nesting happening on a particular date every year. It's like people maintaining that the spuds have to be planted on St Patrick's day irrespective of the conditions - nonsense.

I agree that freak weather events aren't a marker but, IMO, climatic trends are, like August being a warmer month than May and indeed February being colder than November on average.

riffmongous

Robineen wrote: »

I've seen daffodils bloom in January.

I can get on board with February being Spring and November being Winter but to me, August is Summer. Despite the shorter days compared to June, it's usually a warmer month than June. And I'd see May more as a Spring month, it's often quite cold.

For me it's the trends of both light, temperature and phenology that make August autumn and February Spring. Autumn is the 2nd warmest month alright, but it's the fact that it's starting to get cooler again, combined with the noticeable decrease in light and how the plants are changing from growth to filling and fruiting, it creates a different feeling to the previous months, the opposite case for February

fleet_admiral

My daffodils have been up since mid December and my tulips have been flying up in the last two weeks. It's great to see spring is here

Noveight

A busy time for many farmers around the country.

bodhrandude

It definitely still seems like winter at the moment, its went dank and dark in Galway just now and my windows are wet outside.

WesternZulu

bodhrandude wrote: »

It definitely still seems like winter at the moment, its went dank and dark in Galway just now and my windows are wet outside.

That could be any time of the year in Galway in fairness!

Armchair Andy

Lovely spring sunny afternoon here in cork. Great to hear the sound of kids out playing again.

Robineen

riffmongous wrote: »

For me it's the trends of both light, temperature and phenology that make August autumn and February Spring. Autumn is the 2nd warmest month alright, but it's the fact that it's starting to get cooler again, combined with the noticeable decrease in light and how the plants are changing from growth to filling and fruiting, it creates a different feeling to the previous months, the opposite case for February

But, on the other hand, by May some trees are just about starting to bud and that is what makes it feel spring-like to me.

I find that the weather only really starts to cool in mid-September. Early September can be quite warm and indeed often much warmer than May.

riffmongous

Robineen wrote: »

But, on the other hand, by May some trees are just about starting to bud and that is what makes it feel spring-like to me.

I find that the weather only really starts to cool in mid-September. Early September can be quite warm and indeed often much warmer than May.

You are right, September is on average much warmer than may, but it's still on a negative trend. Temps decrease from a max in July to a min in January, lagging behind the decreasing insolation, this is reflected by the plants and all together the trends make the seasons for me. It depends what the season means for you I guess, I just dislike people complaining about those who consider February to be Spring

Jamsiek

Arabella Sparse Hemp wrote: »

Wrong I'm afraid.

November, December, January = winter
February, March, April = spring
May, June, July = Summer
August, September, October = Autumn

For me it's
March to May = Spring
June to August = Summer
September to November = autumn/fall
December to February = winter

I'm not sure how people can say August is in autumn when it's sometimes the hottest month of the year.

This is an interesting link that's worth a look
https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/aboutseasons.html

sryanbruen

There is no perfect date of when Spring starts, it depends on your point of view. From a meteorological point of view and I'm a meteorologist (well getting there :P) so I believe in this, Spring starts on March 1.

From an old Irish tradition point of view, Spring starts on February 1. I do not believe in this one but like I said, people have different opinions and points of view.

From an astronomical point of view, Spring starts on March 20 because of the Spring Equinox. It'd be in September 22 in the Southern Hemisphere. I find this one reasonable to believe but I still live by the meteorological start to Spring.

It does frustrate me that people believe Spring starts on February 1 or in February especially as it is the coldest month of the year on average. Valentia Observatory's means for each Winter month, for example:

December: 7.8c
January: 7.3c
February: 7.2c

But there are reasonable points that outweigh this like the growth of flowers that show February is the start to Spring. Just remember that we all have different points of view and opinions.

sryanbruen

Robineen wrote: »

But, on the other hand, by May some trees are just about starting to bud and that is what makes it feel spring-like to me.

I find that the weather only really starts to cool in mid-September. Early September can be quite warm and indeed often much warmer than May.

Precisely.... (see attachment below of my daily temperatures through 2016.... as you can see early September was indeed warmer than May)

Ken.

Sryanbruen banned for using science to try winning an argument. Now lets the rest of us go burn down the observatory.

sryanbruen

ken wrote: »

Sryanbruen banned for using science to try winning an argument. Now lets the rest of us go burn down the observatory.

Didn't realise I was being so scientific :.

riffmongous

sryanbruen wrote: »

It does frustrate me that people believe Spring starts on February 1 or in February especially as it is the coldest month of the year on average. Valentia Observatory's means for each Winter month, for example:

December: 7.8c
January: 7.3c
February: 7.2c

This is misleading, out of 25 stations listed here of Ireland, only 3 (Valentia, Mace and Malin) have a colder February than January, the rest it's either equal or warmerlink

Jamsiek

riffmongous wrote: »

For me it's the trends of both light, temperature and phenology that make August autumn and February Spring. Autumn is the 2nd warmest month alright, but it's the fact that it's starting to get cooler again, combined with the noticeable decrease in light and how the plants are changing from growth to filling and fruiting, it creates a different feeling to the previous months, the opposite case for February

So the 2nd warmest month of the year is in the autumn?
I can't see the logic in that to be honest

riffmongous

Jamsiek wrote: »

So the 2nd warmest month of the year is in the autumn?
I can't see the logic in that to be honest

Trend

Jamsiek

riffmongous wrote: »

Trend

All months are linked together by trends
June is on average, slightly warmer than May too

riffmongous

Jamsiek wrote: »

All months are linked together by trends
June is on average, slightly warmer than May too

And August is where the trend changes

youreadthat

topper75 wrote: »

No foreign media certainly does influence Irish thinking hugely in a general sense. It may not make direct demands that we change our spring date, but the increasing influence does pave the way for rejection of how we have always done things and you can hear this in the very way that younger people speak.

Continental Europe has a continental climate oddly enough even northern Europe - cold winters, hot summers. Southern Europe has a Med climate. We and the Brits don't get those climates. No point pretending we are the same in that regard.

I'm not saying the EU has tried to change our observation of seasons here in any direct fashion. Rather I am warning about their homogenising federalist agenda and how they may find convenience in the erosion of Irish traditions that are at odds with continental Europe. I say - fear not being ourselves as we always have been. If Feb 1 is our spring - let them accept that and work around it rather than expecting us to wait until their March 21 say-so. We have danced to their tune enough to date with the km, kg, and € etc.

I used commas facetiously with Met Eireann. I understand what they are about and accept their official status, but their science around seasons isn't capable of outweighing thousands of year of Irish life and wisdom. Talk of a meteorological spring seems like a bit of joke in a country such as ours. Light levels have a far great bearing than weather. Anyway, MÉ are not pure scientists that you imagine - they are bound in the way that any government agency is. Where did the infamous weather warning colour codes come from - outside influence (Ireland is a participating country in meteoalarm.eu). Utterly inappropriate for us. Bit of wind and rain has a special warning colour attached. Laughable out here in the north west where its not far off default weather. :-) Orange how are you.

The Irish seasons aren't derived from religion of any kind as you suggest. Religions have indeed tried to assign their own significance to calendar days that were anciently observed e.g. St. Bridget's day, Beal Tine etc. But the quarter days we have today are rooted in observations going back millenia - there must have been six or seven millenia of cattle and farming at least. These ancestors of ours (yup even if you are a Dub!) watched signs in nature like hawks. Their livelihoods depended on it. Good enough for me anyway.

"So a flower budding in February does not mean it’s Spring nor does snow in April mean it’s Winter" - seems we are in agreement so that meteorological measures of season change aren't the best basis for seasons here on our island.

You bring the Brits into it but no one there considers February as Spring.

Robineen

riffmongous wrote: »

And August is where the trend changes

It's September really that the trend reverses, weather-wise anyway.

riffmongous

Robineen wrote: »

It's September really that the trend reverses, weather-wise anyway.

You can check the data, for temperature it's not much alright but it's there. For insolation (look at Valentia and Dublin Airport) it's a much bigger difference (daylight also) link

Graces7

Positively Negative wrote: »

My daffodils flowered fully in December a few years back, does that mean December was in Spring that year?

Yes of course it does. Spring is a mood not a date.