General Ongoing Doctor Discussion

FunLover18

I thought season 12 was delayed

Spon Farmer

Does anyone know when season 11 might be on Netflix?

pixelburp

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Does anyone know when season 11 might be on Netflix?

No idea myself, Netflix can often lag behind the most recent seasons, so I'd say not until after season 12 airs.

There's no news on a release date for 12 either, but it's thought that we'll get a trailer on Nov 23rd, so maybe then.

Spon Farmer

pixelburp wrote: »

No idea myself, Netflix can often lag behind the most recent seasons, so I'd say not until after season 12 airs.

There's no news on a release date for 12 either, but it's thought that we'll get a trailer on Nov 23rd, so maybe then.

After posting I happened upon the information that season 10 came to Netflix last January which was about a year and a half after it finished on the BBC and Season 9 was two years.

Poldark releases seem to vary too so I suppose it is just a case of it will show up when it shows up.

Spon Farmer

As I’m here I may as well ask this.

I was very surprised that Capaldi had such a short run. With his enthusiasm is talking about his love for it as a kid and when he was first cast I thought he would be the Doctor for a long, long time.

When he packed it in I remember him saying something like it feeling like a production line or factory.

Was it just that he didn’t the process of making a show like that? The hours, etc. Or was there drama going behind the scenes between the producers and the BBC? I was curious about the year it was off the air.

FunLover18

Spon Farmer wrote: »

As I’m here I may as well ask this.

I was very surprised that Capaldi had such a short run. With his enthusiasm is talking about his love for it as a kid and when he was first cast I thought he would be the Doctor for a long, long time.

When he packed it in I remember him saying something like it feeling like a production line or factory.

Was it just that he didn’t the process of making a show like that? The hours, etc. Or was there drama going behind the scenes between the producers and the BBC? I was curious about the year it was off the air.

I'm aware of any drama so I'd imagine it was the hectic schedule, he is a man in his 60s after all.

pixelburp

Spon Farmer wrote: »

As I’m here I may as well ask this.

I was very surprised that Capaldi had such a short run. With his enthusiasm is talking about his love for it as a kid and when he was first cast I thought he would be the Doctor for a long, long time.

When he packed it in I remember him saying something like it feeling like a production line or factory.

Was it just that he didn’t the process of making a show like that? The hours, etc. Or was there drama going behind the scenes between the producers and the BBC? I was curious about the year it was off the air.

As FunLover18 said, I'd say it was just the schedule: Dr. Who is an international show now, and aside from the shooting there's a whole bunch of conventions, junkets and events to attend across the world. Long time since the show was rattled together in a BBC backlot or nearby quarry; in fact I'd say the American market is now as important as its local one.

AFAIK, only Eccleston ran into actual problems with others on the production team; for a while there was a rumour peddled with some glee that Whitaker had also had a fight with producers, but that showed to be false.

Spon Farmer

FunLover18 wrote: »

I'm aware of any drama so I'd imagine it was the hectic schedule, he is a man in his 60s after all.

pixelburp wrote: »

As FunLover18 said, I'd say it was just the schedule: Dr. Who is an international show now, and aside from the shooting there's a whole bunch of conventions, junkets and events to attend across the world. Long time since the show was rattled together in a BBC backlot or nearby quarry; in fact I'd say the American market is now as important as its local one.

AFAIK, only Eccleston ran into actual problems with others on the production team; for a while there was a rumour peddled with some glee that Whitaker had also had a fight with producers, but that showed to be false.

Okay. I just remember there being a big break before his final season and I wondered had that gap occurred because of difficulty behind the scenes.

I didn’t mean difficulty for Capaldi himself - maybe other parties and maybe he just just got fed up of it.

pixelburp

There has been a gap with Whitaker (and Tenant too) with their seasons, and I think it's just modern logistics, especially the foreign shooting that has become more common. I think last year they shot a lot of it in South Africa? Broadly speaking it's not that uncommon these days for bigger shows to have larger gaps, even Game of Thrones had a 2 year gap I think?. Cost of high production telly I guess.

Spon Farmer

pixelburp wrote: »

There has been a gap with Whitaker (and Tenant too) with their seasons, and I think it's just modern logistics, especially the foreign shooting that has become more common. I think last year they shot a lot of it in South Africa? Broadly speaking it's not that uncommon these days for bigger shows to have larger gaps, even Game of Thrones had a 2 year gap I think?. Cost of high production telly I guess.

I was years behind when Tennat was he Doctor so I didn’t know about a break there. The Smith and Capaldi years I was watching as they aired.

I haven’t seen any Whitaker yet. Looking forward to it.

pixelburp

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I was years behind when Tennat was he Doctor so I didn’t know about a break there. The Smith and Capaldi years I was watching as they aired.

I haven’t seen any Whitaker yet. Looking forward to it.

Yup; so the Tennant break was a little different: more that they only broadcast specials throughout the year (2009, jaysus) culminating in a Christmas 2 parter that said goodbye to the 10th Doc. So it wasn't technically a break, but it wasn't a normal season of episodes either.

Of course these hiatuses are always jumped on by clickbait as a "trouble in paradise" story, especially given the relative controversy of Whitaker's Doc.

Spon Farmer

pixelburp wrote: »

Yup; so the Tennant break was a little different: more that they only broadcast specials throughout the year (2009, jaysus) culminating in a Christmas 2 parter that said goodbye to the 10th Doc. So it wasn't technically a break, but it wasn't a normal season of episodes either.

Of course these hiatuses are always jumped on by clickbait as a "trouble in paradise" story, especially given the relative controversy of Whitaker's Doc.

What is the controversy about Whitaker?

How she plays the role or just that she has boobs and vagina?

pixelburp

Spon Farmer wrote: »

What is the controversy about Whitaker?

How she plays the role or just that she has boobs and vagina?

To be fair, there has been fair criticism of Whitaker's Doctor (mostly around the absence of a defining characteristic), but this has been lost behind a wall of noise around her gender. IIRC even here there were some confidently proclaiming the show on hiatus and that Whitaker was out.

Spon Farmer

pixelburp wrote: »

To be fair, there has been fair criticism of Whitaker's Doctor (mostly around the absence of a defining characteristic), but this has been lost behind a wall of noise around her gender. IIRC even here there were some confidently proclaiming the show on hiatus and that Whitaker was out.

Fair criticism in the realm of sci-if and fantasy?

What Earth am I on?

What do you mean by a “defining characteristic”?

pixelburp

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Fair criticism in the realm of sci-if and fantasy?

What Earth am I on?

What do you mean by a “defining characteristic”?

The argument has gone that unlike the Tennant, Smith & Capaldi iterations, Whittaker's doesn't really have a singular quirk or personality trait to latch onto; to the point that in some stories, you could (say) swap Whitaker for Smith and the script still worked - whereas you certainly couldn't put Capaldi in a Smith script. This has been a key part of the argument made against the Doctor in Season 11, that Whitaker's Doc doesn't really have a "thing" yet. Don't really think that's entirely Whitaker's fault mind you, though the part does expect the actor to bring some element of their personality to the role.

In retrospect, I'd say the theory does have merit all right, this Doctor has been a touch derivative & generic - but then I've equally read it suggested that this is the first New-Who Doctor who isn't saddled with survivor's guilt & angst over Gallifrey, automatically making her a lot less dramatic than predecessors.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

pixelburp wrote: »

The argument has gone that unlike the Tennant, Smith & Capaldi iterations, Whittaker's doesn't really have a singular quirk or personality trait to latch onto; to the point that in some stories, you could (say) swap Whitaker for Smith and the script still worked - whereas you certainly couldn't put Capaldi in a Smith script. This has been a key part of the argument made against the Doctor in Season 11, that Whitaker's Doc doesn't really have a "thing" yet. Don't really think that's entirely Whitaker's fault mind you, though the part does expect the actor to bring some element of their personality to the role.

In retrospect, I'd say the theory does have merit all right, this Doctor has been a touch derivative & generic - but then I've equally read it suggested that this is the first New-Who Doctor who isn't saddled with survivor's guilt & angst over Gallifrey, automatically making her a lot less dramatic than predecessors.

I would have said Whitaker's Doctor's "quirk" is her positivity. She bears similarity to Smith's Doctor in that respect but for me he always came across more like a goofy kid's entertainer type of vibe and I could never take him seriously when required to, whereas Whitaker seems more like a grown up who knows the worst of things but still has a relentlessly positive attitude.

pixelburp

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I would have said Whitaker's Doctor's "quirk" is her positivity. She bears similarity to Smith's Doctor in that respect but for me he always came across more like a goofy kid's entertainer type of vibe and I could never take him seriously when required to, whereas Whitaker seems more like a grown up who knows the worst of things but still has a relentlessly positive attitude.

True, I'd say that ties in with her not being saddled with that survivors guilt; as you say she's a more open, happy Doctor with a quite literal new lease of life. I think both arguments are valid, certainly I could see how those watching used to the Doctor being "the Lonely God" that we got with RTD/Moffat, might find this version a little jarring.

FunLover18

I thought the writing last season was amongst the worst of NuWho. I didn't like the later Smith series but because I just felt they got too convoluted whereas last series was just boring and forgettable. I really like Whittaker, i just think she's being wasted in poor stories. I've definitely seen the New Year Special but I cannot remember anything about it. I know it contained Daleks but I don't remember that being the case.

ebbsy

I don't think one can just blame the writing.


The thing for me with WHO is the actor being able to elevate average scripts to something good.

This actress hasn't been able to do that.

Coming after Capaldi hasn't helped her either. He was one of my favourites.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ebbsy wrote: »

I don't think one can just blame the writing.


The thing for me with WHO is the actor being able to elevate average scripts to something good.

This actress hasn't been able to do that.

Coming after Capaldi hasn't helped her either. He was one of my favourites.

Personally I've enjoyed Whittaker and the episodes haven't been terrible, I don't think. I've quite enjoyed there not really being a bigger plot weaving through the episodes and them mostly just being stand alone adventures.

If there is an issue, for me, it's the multiple companions. I thought it was a good idea at the start but it makes it difficult for the Doctor to form any kind of close relationship with any of them.

ebbsy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Personally I've enjoyed Whittaker and the episodes haven't been terrible, I don't think. I've quite enjoyed there not really being a bigger plot weaving through the episodes and them mostly just being stand alone adventures.

If there is an issue, for me, it's the multiple companions. I thought it was a good idea at the start but it makes it difficult for the Doctor to form any kind of close relationship with any of them.

Good point about the companions.

Would never have thought it but Walsh was ok.

jasonb

Little bit of casting news for the first episode at least...

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-11-20/doctor-who-series-12-lenny-henry-stephen-fry/

pixelburp

ebbsy wrote: »

I don't think one can just blame the writing.


The thing for me with WHO is the actor being able to elevate average scripts to something good.

This actress hasn't been able to do that.

Coming after Capaldi hasn't helped her either. He was one of my favourites.

I don't follow this bit: what do you mean "coming after Capaldi?"

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ebbsy wrote: »

Good point about the companions.

Would never have thought it but Walsh was ok.

Yeah, I always forget that Walsh is actually an actor too and not just a presenter. I would get rid of Ryan. I think his and Graham's relationship was supposed to be the important one through that set of episodes but I didn't really care and I'd happily leave Ryan behind.

pixelburp

It has always been a problem throughout the entire show's history: three companions is just too many to write for & guarantee something for them to do. That combination of Adric, Nyssa & Tegan was just horrendous, especially as Nyssa had an easy arc that was never ploughed (that her father was walking around as The Master)

I actually like all of 13's friends, but there's no realistic way of including all of them in the adventure; so invariably someone got lost and kicked their heels. More often than not it was Yaz, Ryan & Graham making for a more automatic pairing by dint of their familial connection. I'm not sure who'd I'd cut from the group: maybe Ryan because he got some closure with his biological father.

flazio

Another side effect is that the writing for the characters is suffering. Take Yasmin for example, she was introduced to us as a probation police officer. Her job is never mentioned again. Not once on any earth stories did she try to assert some authority or even mention she's a police officer. It's just completely ignored.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

flazio wrote: »

Another side effect is that the writing for the characters is suffering. Take Yasmin for example, she was introduced to us as a probation police officer. Her job is never mentioned again. Not once on any earth stories did she try to assert some authority or even mention she's a police officer. It's just completely ignored.

Agreed. Yasmin is probably the most interesting of the 3 companions but she does seem to have been sidelined a bit in favour of addressing the relationship between Graham and Ryan and their shared grief. Although that did seem to have some resolution last series so maybe Yasmin will get a bit more care and attention this time around.

ebbsy

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't follow this bit: what do you mean "coming after Capaldi?"

My 3 favourite doctors :

1 Tom Baker
2 David Tennant
3 Peter Capaldi


And the current doctor is no Capaldi in my view.

pixelburp

ebbsy wrote: »

My 3 favourite doctors :

1 Tom Baker
2 David Tennant
3 Peter Capaldi


And the current doctor is no Capaldi in my view.

Sorry, I misread what you posted: I thought you were saying that Whitaker was publicly mouthing off about Capaldi, that she was "coming after him" lol :rolleyes: Nevermind!

pixelburp

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Agreed. Yasmin is probably the most interesting of the 3 companions but she does seem to have been sidelined a bit in favour of addressing the relationship between Graham and Ryan and their shared grief. Although that did seem to have some resolution last series so maybe Yasmin will get a bit more care and attention this time around.

I have an inkling that Season 12 might return to arcs & broader plot points: reason being, and I had to google to confirm I heard it, "The Ghost Monument" hinted at something new about the Doc's past we hadn't heard before (I don't think)

Remnants: Afraid of your own newness. We see deeper, though. Further back. The Timeless Child.
The Doctor: What did you just say?
Remnants: She doesn’t know.
The Doctor: What are you talking about? What can you see?
Remnants: We see what’s hidden, even from yourself. The outcast, abandoned and unknown.
The Doctor: Get out of my head!

AFAIK it didn't come up again, and maybe it was just random babbling to psyche out the Doc during the story, but I've wondered if perhaps it's something we'll come back to - in season 12? Not like the show hasn't been fond of using Ominous Nouns before, to hint at later McGuffins and Arcs.