I bet you didnt know that

ohnonotgmail

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Now first the disclaimer - this could well be an urban myth!!

You know those little foam banana sweets - that taste delicious but not quite like a banana, they're distinctly bananaish however?
Well the story I heard, is that is what bananas used to taste like before a fungal infection wiped out the variety everyone used to eat. When we switched over to a different variety they never updated the artificial flavour in the sweets, leaving them stuck in some sort of delicious banana time warp.

There may be something to that. In the 1950s the dominant commercial variety of banana was wiped out by disease. It was replaced a variant that was immune. Even these variants are starting to show signs of the disease so the banana as we know it may go extinct.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_disease

Buford T. Justice XIX

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Now first the disclaimer - this could well be an urban myth!!

You know those little foam banana sweets - that taste delicious but not quite like a banana, they're distinctly bananaish however?
Well the story I heard, is that is what bananas used to taste like before a fungal infection wiped out the variety everyone used to eat. When we switched over to a different variety they never updated the artificial flavour in the sweets, leaving them stuck in some sort of delicious banana time warp.

The Gros Michel banana was the most widely grown banana in the world until it was attacked by the fungal disease, Fusarium Oxysporum. It was replaced by the Cavendish banana which is now under attack by another strain of the Fusarium fungus.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_disease

GBX

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

There may be something to that. In the 1950s the dominant commercial variety of banana was wiped out by disease. It was replaced a variant that was immune. Even these variants are starting to show signs of the disease so the banana as we know it may go extinct.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_disease

Was it naturally immune or was it developed to be immune? If the latter would this be the beginning of GMO type food?

ohnonotgmail

GBX wrote: »

Was it naturally immune or was it developed to be immune? If the latter would this be the beginning of GMO type food?

naturally immune i think but only to variant of the disease that wiped out main variety in the 1950s. The bananas we eat are all propagated by man. they cannot reproduce on their own. They are effectively clones hence why the main variety was so susceptible to disease.

Buford T. Justice XIX

GBX wrote: »

Was it naturally immune or was it developed to be immune? If the latter would this be the beginning of GMO type food?

All new varieties of food crop are developed to target a number of criteria. Yield, harvest time, flavour etc etc are huge factors in deciding which varieties are progressed beyond the breeding stage for commercial trials to see how they perform in the real world rather than in the lab/glasshouse.

Probably chief among those traits is resistance to disease. It's a constant battle to find resistant genotypes growing in the wild and incorporate the relevant traits into commercial crops for use in growing our food.

Just taking potatoes, blight is a constant threat to potatoes growing here due to our climatic conditions, specifically rain, which greatly favour the growth and dispersal of the disease around the country.

There is a large number of groups in South America looking for new strains of potato in the wild, where potatoes are native, which show possibly desired traits and incorporating those traits into breeding programmes.

Even if the trait can be incorporated into a commercial strain of the crop, other factors may come into play which prevent the crop being grown, such as low yields, irregular shapes, resistance to other diseases, ability to stay rot free in storage etc. And even then, the strains of blight mutate and slowly develop to overcome the bred resistance over time.

Less than 1 in a million developed strains reach the end stage of large scale production and the same is true for all commercial crops, there is a very small chance of hitting the jackpot like the Rooster potato which is widely grown today.

There are promising trials of GM potatoes which have a huge and seemingly more persistent resistance to blight, basically they cut some decades of breeding out to develop a strain which is extremely close to being commercially viable. It also has the added bonus of reducing fungicide by a factor of over 50%, just by the addition of wild genes to already commercial crops.


The Cavendish was bred conventionally to provide resistance to the Fusarium strain that devastated the Gros Michel.

Tacitus Kilgore

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

There may be something to that. In the 1950s the dominant commercial variety of banana was wiped out by disease. It was replaced a variant that was immune. Even these variants are starting to show signs of the disease so the banana as we know it may go extinct.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_disease

When I worked on the banana plantations in QLD Australia, they were absolutely terrified of Panama Disease - even the workers on the ground. There was one farm in the far North showing signs of it in 2014/15 and it was essentially razed from the face of the earth and is still under strict quarantine.

Awful disease, once it takes hold there's no stopping it.

ohnonotgmail

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

All new varieties of food crop are developed to target a number of criteria. Yield, harvest time, flavour etc etc are huge factors in deciding which varieties are progressed beyond the breeding stage for commercial trials to see how they perform in the real world rather than in the lab/glasshouse.

Probably chief among those traits is resistance to disease. It's a constant battle to find resistant genotypes growing in the wild and incorporate the relevant traits into commercial crops for use in growing our food.

Just taking potatoes, blight is a constant threat to potatoes growing here due to our climatic conditions, specifically rain, which greatly favour the growth and dispersal of the disease around the country.

There is a large number of groups in South America looking for new strains of potato in the wild, where potatoes are native, which show possibly desired traits and incorporating those traits into breeding programmes.

Even if the trait can be incorporated into a commercial strain of the crop, other factors may come into play which prevent the crop being grown, such as low yields, irregular shapes, resistance to other diseases, ability to stay rot free in storage etc. And even then, the strains of blight mutate and slowly develop to overcome the bred resistance over time.

Less than 1 in a million developed strains reach the end stage of large scale production and the same is true for all commercial crops, there is a very small chance of hitting the jackpot like the Rooster potato which is widely grown today.

There are promising trials of GM potatoes which have a huge and seemingly more persistent resistance to blight, basically they cut some decades of breeding out to develop a strain which is extremely close to being commercially viable. It also has the added bonus of reducing fungicide by a factor of over 50%, just by the addition of wild genes to already commercial crops.


The Cavendish was bred conventionally to provide resistance to the Fusarium strain that devastated the Gros Michel.

was it bred to be immune or was it picked because it was immune?

GBX

I see. I don't eat bananas I find them repulsive but its interesting. :pac:

It's amazing how we have adapted food through science and whatever means. Obviously its come on hugely in more recent times and long may it continue.

sbsquarepants

Just had a quick read through that wiki page, it can lay dormant in the soil for 30 years and then spring back into action when an unsuspecting banana wanders by and is completely completely resistant to fungicide.
If you were a banana producer you'd be quite right to be very afraid of it!

secondrowgal

In relation to potatoes, we have a fruit and veg shop since the early 80s. Growing up, I always remember (British) Queens, Records and Kerrs Pink potatoes. Like many, I had to emigrate in the early 90s and didn't come back until the 00s. The family shop is still going (buy local folks!!!). Suddenly (to me it was sudden), there was this Rooster potato. Where the hell did that come from? Turns out it was developed in Teagasc and launched in the 90s. It now accounts for over 70% of potatoes sold in Ireland due to its versatility (although our discerning customers are still partial to a good Record).

Buford T. Justice XIX

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

was it bred to be immune or was it picked because it was immune?

It was picked because it was immume to the strain that killed the Gros Michel.

Cavendish bananas entered mass commercial production in 1903 but did not gain prominence until later when Panama disease attacked the dominant Gros Michel ("Big Mike") variety in the 1950s. Because they were successfully grown in the same soils as previously affected Gros Michel plants, many assumed the Cavendish cultivars were more resistant to Panama disease

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_banana

Busman Paddy Lasty

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

was it bred to be immune or was it picked because it was immune?

Sarpo Mira and Sarpo Axona breeders used traits found in wild varieties of potatoes.

http://sarpo.co.uk/history/

Fairly blight resistant as a result of selective breeding - the old fashioned way of introducing new genes. Soviet desire for a cheap and cheerful blight resistant spud apparently.

loyatemu

secondrowgal wrote: »

In relation to potatoes, we have a fruit and veg shop since the early 80s. Growing up, I always remember (British) Queens, Records and Kerrs Pink potatoes. Like many, I had to emigrate in the early 90s and didn't come back until the 00s. The family shop is still going (buy local folks!!!). Suddenly (to me it was sudden), there was this Rooster potato. Where the hell did that come from? Turns out it was developed in Teagasc and launched in the 90s. It now accounts for over 70% of potatoes sold in Ireland due to its versatility (although our discerning customers are still partial to a good Record).

Roosters are both versatile and reliable (from a cooking point of view, I assume they're also reliable and fairly disease resistant to grow).

The recent CSO report showed that we import 72000 tonnes of spuds a year
https://cso.ie/en/interactivezone/visualisationtools/infographics/economy/#economy-pg-3

Anecdotally a lot of these are for chippers who prefer the Maris Piper variety (also an excellent spud). I don't know if anyone can confirm this?

Buford T. Justice XIX

loyatemu wrote: »

Roosters are both versatile and reliable (from a cooking point of view, I assume they're also reliable and fairly disease resistant to grow).

The recent CSO report showed that we import 72000 tonnes of spuds a year
https://cso.ie/en/interactivezone/visualisationtools/infographics/economy/#economy-pg-3

Anecdotally a lot of these are for chippers who prefer the Maris Piper variety (also an excellent spud). I don't know if anyone can confirm this?

There's a vast difference between different varieties of spuds. Traditionally, the Irish have preferred a flourier spud (higher in Dry Matter) than the British who preferred a soapier spud (lower in Dry Matter).


IIrc correctly, the Maris Piper is an intermediate DM spud but is more uniform in shape so there is less losses when peeling them. The DM would also have an influence on how well they cooked and how well they retained their structure after cooking.



The Golden Wonder was a nice, floury spud but for me, the Kerrs Pink was the hing of the spuds. It was wetter than the Wonder and held its shape without breaking open during cooking but they're getting difficult to find with any great regularity. Another traditional spud was the Lumper, the predominant spud grown here in the years before the famine and was very blight susceptible. It was charachterised by being very uneven and knobby and was a wet spud with huge yields.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Lumper



Someone earlier mentioned the blight resistant Sarpo varieties. They wouldn't find much demand in Ireland as they would be a soapier spud. And, tbh, utterly tasteless:o

sbsquarepants

All this talk of wet and dry spuds has reminded of a thing called the potato paradox (it's not really a paradox, but it adds to it's allure to call it one!)

It goes something like this -

You buy a bag of spuds, it weighs 100kg. They are mostly water, as spuds tend to be, in fact these particular spuds are 99% water. Being the gormless spud muncher you are, you forget to tie the bag properly and they lose some moisture, it's not the end of the world though they're still 98% water.

The question is what do they now weigh?

Answer is they now weigh 50KG. The "paradox" really just shows how badly we tend to handle ratios mentally.

wildlifeboy

The popular table-top football game known as 'Subbuteo' got its name from the scientific name of the Hobby, Falco subbuteo, because it was the designer's favourite bird.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

wildlifeboy wrote: »

The popular table-top football game known as 'Subbuteo' got its name from the scientific name of the Hobby, Falco subbuteo, because it was the designer's favourite bird.

It's called Subbuteo because he wanted to call the game Hobby but was refused the trademark.

quickbeam

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The question is what do they now weigh?

Answer is they now weigh 50KG. The "paradox" really just shows how badly we tend to handle ratios mentally.

Oh, that's very clever, I like it!!

cdeb

sbsquarepants wrote: »

All this talk of wet and dry spuds has reminded of a thing called the potato paradox (it's not really a paradox, but it adds to it's allure to call it one!)

It goes something like this -

You buy a bag of spuds, it weighs 100kg. They are mostly water, as spuds tend to be, in fact these particular spuds are 99% water. Being the gormless spud muncher you are, you forget to tie the bag properly and they lose some moisture, it's not the end of the world though they're still 98% water.

The question is what do they now weigh?

Answer is they now weigh 50KG. The "paradox" really just shows how badly we tend to handle ratios mentally.

All this potato talk reminds me of one of my favourite jokes -

How many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman?

None...

Franz Von Peppercorn

cdeb wrote: »

Reminds me of one of my favourite jokes -

How many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman?

None...

Not sure why it would.

Ipso

cdeb wrote: »

All this potato talk reminds me of one of my favourite jokes -

How many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman?

None...

You should be shot into space!! In spudnik.

py2006

The disclaimer at the start of the video for Michael Jackson's Thriller was to appease his overly religious mother. She didn't like the nature of the video and thought it was connected to black magic and demons etc

She felt very strongly that he shouldn't do the short movie.

cdeb

Ipso wrote: »

You should be shot into space!! In spudnik.

Love it!

Back on topic though - spuds were poisonous originally; they're in the same biological family as nightshade plants. They were turned into a superfood by generations of farmers engaged on one of the world's first genetic engineering projects, who had to breed 95% of the poison out of them. No-one knows who, why or, most bafflingly, how they did it.

Chris McCandless - the American who went to live in the Alaska wilderness, a story turned into a book and a film called Into The Wild possibly suffered potato poisoning, which made him too weak to trap food, and so he starved to death. He had gone into Alaska to be completely away from human civilisation, but died less than a mile from a rail line

VW 1

cdeb wrote: »

Love it!

Back on topic though - spuds were poisonous originally; they're in the same biological family as nightshade plants. They were turned into a superfood by generations of farmers engaged on one of the world's first genetic engineering projects, who had to breed 95% of the poison out of them. No-one knows who, why or, most bafflingly, how they did it.

Chris McCandless - the American who went to live in the Alaska wilderness, a story turned into a book and a film called Into The Wild possibly suffered potato poisoning, which made him too weak to trap food, and so he starved to death. He had gone into Alaska to be completely away from human civilisation, but died less than a mile from a rail line

Not much to add other than the film is on netflix and is a great story,some lovely cinematography and landscape in there too.

Chancer3001

The boxing crab holds two stinging sea anemones in its claws and uses them as stinging boxing gloves for defence.

Water John

The bag of potatoes weighs 50kg. To double the solids from 1 to 2% requires the removal of half the water.

Only Golden wonders to my OH. One needs to keep a close eye as to when they are boiled, go from undercooked to mush is a short time.

New Home

Chancer3001 wrote: »

The boxing crab holds two stinging sea anemones in its claws and uses them as stinging boxing gloves for defence.

And the hermit crab "tickles" them to detach them from the surface they're on and sticks them onto its own shell where they act as protection.

New Home

Chancer3001

Somebody please explain that potato thing to me.

99% water and 1%solid =100kg

But surely we don't know where the weight is stored? Like the 1% solid is 1kg? Or 10kg of it?

And if 98% water and 2% solid... wouldn't it stay the same if the solid weighed 1kg?

I'm lost where 50 comes from.

Unless the solid is weightless ? Or something...

Quazzie

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Somebody please explain that potato thing to me.

99% water and 1%solid =100kg

But surely we don't know where the weight is stored? Like the 1% solid is 1kg? Or 10kg of it?

And if 98% water and 2% solid... wouldn't it stay the same if the solid weighed 1kg?

I'm lost where 50 comes from.

Unless the solid is weightless ? Or something...

If the 99% is water and 1% solid and the total is 100kg. The ratio is 99:1

At 98% water the solid is still only 1kg but is now 2%
So if 2% is equals to 1kg then 100% is only 50kg

Make sense?