Feeling very sad about decision

iguana

Dial Hard wrote: »

That poster is an infant milk scientist, iirc and it's perfectly valid advice in this instance as it's directly relevant to the baby's immune development.

She wasn't making any value judgements on whether or not the OP "should have" breastfed, at all.

I'm not an infant milk scientist, I do actually have a very good friend who is and I believe there is at least one such specialist who posts on boards, but it's not me. I did work for an international development charity and know the risks associated with method of infant feeding when the utilities and infrastructure are not as reliable as we are used to here. I'm not judging the OP for how she feeds her baby, that's her own personal situation. But when travelling to the developing world it is something that needs to be factored into the risk assessment.

meeeeh

iguana wrote: »

Well the fact is that Brazil has an infant mortality rate 5 times higher than Ireland's.

And Bulgaria has about four times as high as Ireland. How many people would start panicking if someone decided to go on a sun holiday to Bulgaria with kids?

orthsquel

OP first thing I would do tomorrow is go back to your doctor and clarify what you have been told. Find out what the issue is exactly and find out if your child is at risk. Clarify your doctor's position on whether you and your child are medically fit to travel or not. Clarify if they recommend for or against you and your baby travelling. If it is the case that you or your child is not medically fit to travel, ensure that you get confirmation of that in writing.

Contact your airline directly and see what your options are. Relay to them what your doctor confirms with you. See what they can do for you, if anything.

Since you have no travel insurance, you cannot take out one knowing you will have to make a claim.

If you have private health insurance, you may have something like Accident and Emergency while Abroad - note this is not travel insurance or even remotely equivalent to medical and emergency expenses under travel insurance - which may be quite basic in-built into your private medical insurance. But you must contact your private medical insurance provider to confirm what cover you have under your policy, if any. Do not make assumptions you have any cover for medical while abroad, this is not a minimum benefit (mandatory cover) included in all policies and can vary from insurer to insurer, policy to policy.

Lia_lia

I don't see what the big deal is here. My siblings travelled to many countries (mainly in Asia) when they were babies. The baby will be 10 months, not newborn. Although I guess if the doctor said that it's not a good idea then...

Still though would get a second opinion from another doctor. Also can't imagine leaving the child for 1 month! The travel insurance issue is another thing. Many people don't get travel insurance, surprisingly..

laurey

margo321 wrote: »

I'd ask the opinion of another Dr. might sound stupid but babies living in Brazil survive. Maybe you could bring the baby. I would ask a place that specialises in travel vaccines.

Yes this is exactly what I'm being told by all the Brazilians. I can't understand exactly what the risks are but I think because the baby is Irish, it's not used to the climate and food in Brazil, along with all the diseases from mosquitoes. I was told he could get dehydrated over there which is very serious. I'm just finding it hard how to explain it to baby's Brazilian grandparents
The plan was to travel to The north of Brazil (rondonia) (a city in the Amazon) from there to fly to a beach off the east coast and finally to go to Goias. It's all the travelling that concerns me too. i just feel I'd be a bad of nerves the whole time. My heart does not want to leave baby behind but thinks it's a kinder more loving option than taking him at a possible risk.

laurey

Turtle_ wrote: »

My family moved to a city area of SE Asia when my brother was younger than OP's baby. No issues, just got as much immunisation as he could and continued his vaccination schedule over there.

OP has said she's talked to the doctor, but is that a specialist in tropical medicine? It's not risk free, but you do need to remember that babies over there survive fine.

Maybe I'm wide of the mark, but I'd be more concerned that either of you going at all if the area is a zika risk, if you plan to have more children.

Seriously though, take out travel insurance! (btw, are you sure your cover abroad isn't 1 million? 100k is laughably low)

Thanks to everyone by the way. I really appreciate it. You are all so kind and I wish you all a happy new year. I'm just responding to posts that stood out to me. I don't feel zika is a worry as I won't be having a baby in the next 6 months and that is when it's risky. I've had my vaccines now anyway. I went to tropical medical bureau and the doctor there said the decision is mine but if it were his child, he wouldn't bring it

laurey

Tigger99 wrote: »

If you don't use the first leg of the flight your return flight will be null and void and you won't be able to use it. So buying a later one way ticket will not be the answer.

Can you not just tell your partner that you can't do it. And if his parents are pissed off that you won't leave your baby for a month to go over on the ticket they've paid for, then they care far more about their pocket then your justifiable concerns.

Thanks. I never ever knew that you can't use the second half of a return ticket if you don't use the first half. thank you for letting me know

laurey

meeeeh wrote: »

How does any child survive in Brazil? I am not saying to ignore medical advice but some reaction here is a bit over the top. I'm pretty sure op could get advice what area to avoid and what precautions to take to minimize the risk.

Brazilian babies grew up there, getting slowly exposed to the climate, diseases, mosquitoes, food, water and heat. My baby is Irish and will be going from our freezing climate with lots of fresh air to heat and humidity and discomfort. Though you could argue that he will be uncomfortable whatever age he goes..

laurey

meeeeh wrote: »

Rather than breastfeeding I would be more interested what part of country they are going too and frankly what kind of neighborhood. Airtravel is often the most dangerous part of the trip anyway and that doesn't overly matter where you are going.

I'm sure op did her research and should do only what she feels comfortable with but accusations of being irresponsible parent if you travel to a poorer country are way over the top. Brazil is extremely diverse, going somewhere in Amazon forest will be completely different to staying in rich/middle class neighborhood in Rio which will be again completely different to staying in favela.

Baby is formula fed

laurey

iguana wrote: »

It is relevant advice not judgement. Tbh, if you are reading judgement into it, that says more about your own feelings than my intention. It has been suggested repeatedly that the OP should ignore her doctor's advice 'because Brazilian babies can survive in Brazil.' Well the fact is that Brazil has an infant mortality rate 5 times higher than Ireland's. But that that rate has decreased significantly in direct correlation with increased breastfeeding rates. So method of feeding has a very, very real impact on the level of risk the baby will be exposed to. Method of feeding doesn't matter as much when you can trust the water supply, the formula supplier, the availability and reliability of sterilisation equipment. Brazil is a developing world country, so the OP can't assume that she can rely on all those variables when travelling there. It really is something that needs to be taken into consideration when travelling, especially when going outside of the first world. It's not about judgement but about practicality and the safety of the baby.

I obviously have no idea about what water/formula to give baby while there. Would Brazilian baby formula be safe? I assume so. And if the tap water is filtered, is that enough? I'm sure his family would be safe enough with advising water/formula/solids having had babies (although all were breastfed)
Also I hate it but my partner thinks I'm judging his country when I mention these things. He feels I think his country is ****

Turtle_

laurey wrote: »

I obviously have no idea about what water/formula to give baby while there. Would Brazilian baby formula be safe? I assume so. And if the tap water is filtered, is that enough? I'm sure his family would be safe enough with advising water/formula/solids having had babies (although all were breastfed)
Also I hate it but my partner thinks I'm judging his country when I mention these things. He feels I think his country is ****

Bottled water, bring your own formula.

Explain it to your Oh that even fully grown adults end up with traveller's tummy because of a change in water. Not because the water is dirty, just that the mineral content is very different to what they're used to.

A small baby can't deal with that as easily as an adult.

And your OH is being an ass if he thinks that bringing a baby who has been born and raised in one of the mildest countries in the world (for climate and exposure to insects etc) to a tropical country has no risks.

laurey

orthsquel wrote: »

OP first thing I would do tomorrow is go back to your doctor and clarify what you have been told. Find out what the issue is exactly and find out if your child is at risk. Clarify your doctor's position on whether you and your child are medically fit to travel or not. Clarify if they recommend for or against you and your baby travelling. If it is the case that you or your child is not medically fit to travel, ensure that you get confirmation of that in writing.

Contact your airline directly and see what your options are. Relay to them what your doctor confirms with you. See what they can do for you, if anything.

Since you have no travel insurance, you cannot take out one knowing you will have to make a claim.

If you have private health insurance, you may have something like Accident and Emergency while Abroad - note this is not travel insurance or even remotely equivalent to medical and emergency expenses under travel insurance - which may be quite basic in-built into your private medical insurance. But you must contact your private medical insurance provider to confirm what cover you have under your policy, if any. Do not make assumptions you have any cover for medical while abroad, this is not a minimum benefit (mandatory cover) included in all policies and can vary from insurer to insurer, policy to policy.

The doctor never said baby is medically unfit to travel. He simply said there are risks and it's my decision

laurey

Turtle_ wrote: »

Bottled water, bring your own formula.

Explain it to your Oh that even fully grown adults end up with traveller's tummy because of a change in water. Not because the water is dirty, just that the mineral content is very different to what they're used to.

A small baby can't deal with that as easily as an adult.

And your OH is being an ass if he thinks that bringing a baby who has been born and raised in one of the mildest countries in the world (for climate and exposure to insects etc) to a tropical country has no risks.

Sorry for asking. Maybe you don't know but do I bring the formula powder with me? And would I mix it with bottled water. Here I serve his bottles warm using the perfect prep machine. Would I boil the bottled water. Another part of the holiday that concerns me is that his family plan to drive us in a car for 4-6 days to travel from the beach to Goias. We would be staying in hotels and I'm sure the baby could be uncomfortable in a car for so long

Tigger99

I've friends with babies the same age as your little one and they are very vigilant about not having a baby in the car seat for longer than an hour or two a day because the babies necks are too fragile to support sitting in one any longer. What you are suggesting sounds like a nightmare nevermind the safety aspects.

Take Brazil out of the equation. There are a few different scenarios you have described that aren't ideal in any country. You are having problems convincing your partner/his parents of your concerns now. I honestly think they'll ignore you completely over there.

Does your partner always get his way? You sound very passive in this situation. Are you the lady who posted in relationship issues about her boyfriend calling her a slut?

Birdsong

OP, you don't seem to have any research done on going to Brazil, or travelling at all. I find it hard to believe that you would decide to go on such a long trip and not do the necessary research before booking any thing. Not even travel insurance or how you bring your own formula. I'm sorry if sounds harsh but some thing not adding up for me

Lucuma

You cannot use bottled water to make bottles of formula for a baby unless the sodium and other mineral levels are below a certain amount. You also have to boil the bottled water before using it:

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1945.aspx?categoryid=62

Regarding the food I would just pack 3 large Ella pouches for every day you're there that's baby's 3 meals a day sorted. They don't need refrigeration and then you don't have to worry about baby getting a dickey tummy over there. I know it's expensive to buy that many Ella pouches and will make the suitcase heavy but it's so important that I think it's worth it.

Bring your microwave steriliser and a bottle brush and a kettle with you. You will need the kettle to make the bottles and if you get stuck for a microwave you can use the kettle to sterilise the bottles as well. I've sterilised bottles in a saucepan of boiling water before (you can throw teats and all in there) my mother showed me that it's how sterilising was done in the past and the bottle parts are built to withstand it. I had to do that last summer when staying in a mobile home and my microwave steriliser didn't fit inside the microwave!

At 12 months baby won't need formula anymore and you're 2 months off that so the number of bottles baby is taking should be reducing anyway at this age. You could bring bottles of ready make formula from Ireland (the large Aptimil bottles) at least to get you through the first few days and also to use when you're on the road and not close to a shop.

Are you on any expat FB groups or anything? A friend of mine is married to an Indian guy and she brought both her babies over there not sure what age the first trip was (they've been a few times now) I know she had to get extra vaccines for them alright. Of course it can be done and has been done before but it's going to be hard and will take a bit of research. Do you know anyone else that has done something similar you can ask them how they managed bottles?

Lucuma

Mosquitoes is a tricky one. Unfortunately I know aaaalll about babies/toddlers and mosquitoes. But where I am they don't carry any diseases just bite the sh!t out of my babies. The net over the cot works til they become mobile and start pulling it down. A 10 month old is probably going to pull the mosquito net off. Depends what kind of sleeper your baby is though. If they're the type to sleep through the night you could put the net over the cot after they fall asleep and it'll protect them during the night at least til they wake up and pull it off.

Go to a camping shop, the type that sells adventure/camping equipment? They will have a travel mosquito net.

I never used repellent on the babies personally as I don't like the idea of them ingesting it. A fan blowing directly onto their cot also helps to keep mosquitoes away - they can't land in a moving air stream. Could you bring a fan with you on your travels (with brazilian plug obviously) and point it at baby's cot every night?

Turtle_

laurey wrote: »

Sorry for asking. Maybe you don't know but do I bring the formula powder with me? And would I mix it with bottled water. Here I serve his bottles warm using the perfect prep machine. Would I boil the bottled water. Another part of the holiday that concerns me is that his family plan to drive us in a car for 4-6 days to travel from the beach to Goias. We would be staying in hotels and I'm sure the baby could be uncomfortable in a car for so long

I'm afraid I don't know the intricacies of formula, but yes, I'd bring the powder. I have Chinese friends with a baby back in China who post formula over to there.

I think maybe expectations need to be managed with your partner and his family. You have a small baby. A week in the car is too much. That's just a no. Baby is too young.

You have options though. You can suggest that you do the trip when baby is a toddler - then he'll be able to really enjoy it when he gets there. Or, if it's feasible, you can suggest that one of you fly with baby and the others drive. But that's an issue where you really must put your foot down. Get the doctor to tell you baby isn't fit for up to a week in a car. Your little baby needs you to stand up for him on that one. But maybe approach it from the pov that you understand they're excited to meet you all as a family, but you will come visit regularly and not everything has to be done in this trip.

Ursus Horribilis

I get the impression from your posts that you are still very young and prone to being over-ruled and over-ridden by the people in your life. You need to become more assertive and stand up for you and your baby. Embarking on what appears to be a senseless, unnecessary road-trip is madness. You need to say a very firm No and look out for your baby here.

meeeeh

Op are you going from Bahia to Goias? I traveled there on the bus and it was one of the worst bus rides I ever had. Being stuck on a petrol station in the middle of nowhere in Mexico for 18 hours probably just shades it but roads we traveled were dreadful and hard on adults never mind kids. Maybe roads improved but it does seem to me an exhausting trip. When I was there reasonable internal flights could be got.

That being said people are lovely, the coast is stunning and one of the places I would dearly love to visit again.

Lucuma

More advice for you.....the hardest thing will be lack of access to the medicines etc you are used to here. So make sure to bring 1 bottle of calpol, 1 bottle of neurofen, heavy-duty nappy rash cream, anti-histamine (in case of reaction to mozzie bites) sun hat with a 'veil' at the back to protect the back of their neck (bring a few of those coz they get lost all the time) plenty of sippy cups and dodies (they will get lost and could be hard to find the ones he takes over there)

December2012

Maybe post on a Brazilian parenting forum / travel forum to get some local suggestions from parents who are used to the area

redcup342

laurey wrote: »

It's not easy but I don't see any option. His family have spent a fortune on this holiday for us to travel around Brazil. I checked flight prices to get a flight to Brazil one way and cut the first 2 weeks out so it would shorten it to 2 weeks and it's very expensive- over 1000€ a ticket. I also am wary of vaccinating my baby with a yellow fever vaccine at such a young age. I trust my parents with our baby and I know it's a huge ask

Lookup the price of a return flight, one way is usually more expensive.

Just don't use the second leg.

Also, if you don't take the first leg of the flight you've already booked, you cannot use the return journey (unless it's a budget airline like Ryanair)

Whispered

OP I can't comment on the safety of Brazil but a few things I did want to comment on;

Leaving a 10 month old for a month is best avoided if you can. They are developing so quickly at that age. I would worry it would have emotional consequences for your baby. Never mind how miserable you'll be away for a month.

You should not make formula with most bottle water. You will need to investigate that further yourself. There are some brands that are fine but I don't know what's available in Brazil.

Car seats are uncomfortable at the best of times. Long journey, humid weather, bad roads. Nightmare.

If it was me I'd postpone.

GreenFolder2

You can go to Brazil anytime you like. Give it a few years and it could be a wonderful family holiday.

You won't get this time with your kid ever again.

Travelling with a baby that age unless utterly unavoidable isn't a good idea at all. And Brazil has a very different set of climates and areas that still have very poor access to health care and a whole load of diseases you need to vaccinate for etc etc

Your choice, but if it were me I'd put the baby first.

dev100

laurey wrote: »

Yes this is exactly what I'm being told by all the Brazilians. I can't understand exactly what the risks are but I think because the baby is Irish, it's not used to the climate and food in Brazil, along with all the diseases from mosquitoes. I was told he could get dehydrated over there which is very serious. I'm just finding it hard how to explain it to baby's Brazilian grandparents
The plan was to travel to The north of Brazil (rondonia) (a city in the Amazon) from there to fly to a beach off the east coast and finally to go to Goias. It's all the travelling that concerns me too. i just feel I'd be a bad of nerves the whole time. My heart does not want to leave baby behind but thinks it's a kinder more loving option than taking him at a possible risk.

My mate is married to a Thai woman and has a child and they've travelled over to Thailand every year since she was born and her home place is in the sticks . Never any mishap they took the unusual precautions . Heat is a factor . If your partner is Brazilian he will know what precautions to take whilst there .

My advice go to see the doctors in TMB tropical medicine bureau. Your own doctor won't be as well versed in tropical medicine as they are

It really all depends where you stay. If it's in the amAzon jungle with lots mosquito's and malaria Id avoid . If you staying in city's / coastal locations you should be fine. Heat is a big factor As long as you can access air conditioning in a hotel/home/car and take usual precautions you should be fine and keep hydrated you should be fine .

Get travel insurance !!!!

amtc

I don't have children...so excuse me if wrong.

Primary purpose seems to be to see grandchild. Why can't they come here?

My grandmother lives in Australia and came to see me at one. I went to see grandparents when I was seven so remembered it. Still do.

You need travel insurance. Health insurance not same thing.

You could just let your partner go on his own on trip.

I don't believe airline wouldn't change flights

dev100

amtc wrote: »

I don't have children...so excuse me if wrong.

Primary purpose seems to be to see grandchild. Why can't they come here?

I don't believe airline wouldn't change flights

It can be quite difficult for some nationalities to get into this country for a holiday.

meeeeh

amtc wrote: »

I don't have children...so excuse me if wrong.

Primary purpose seems to be to see grandchild. Why can't they come here?

My grandmother lives in Australia and came to see me at one. I went to see grandparents when I was seven so remembered it. Still do.

You need travel insurance. Health insurance not same thing.

You could just let your partner go on his own on trip.

I don't believe airline wouldn't change flights

It's a guess but I would say op's partner probably wants to go to his home country (and I can understand that). Parents might be unused of flying or it's way more affordable for someone from Ireland going to Brazil than the opposite (at least for 90% of Brazilians). There might be friends op's partner wants to meet. This isn't best planned trip but you could hardly begrudge op's partner and his parents motives for it.

Wompa1

dev100 wrote: »

My mate is married to a Thai woman and has a child and they've travelled over to Thailand every year since she was born and her home place is in the sticks . Never any mishap they took the unusual precautions . Heat is a factor . If your partner is Brazilian he will know what precautions to take whilst there .

My advice go to see the doctors in TMB tropical medicine bureau. Your own doctor won't be as well versed in tropical medicine as they are

It really all depends where you stay. If it's in the amAzon jungle with lots mosquito's and malaria Id avoid . If you staying in city's / coastal locations you should be fine. Heat is a big factor As long as you can access air conditioning in a hotel/home/car and take usual precautions you should be fine and keep hydrated you should be fine .

Get travel insurance !!!!

My wife is Thai, we are planning to bring our son to Thailand in November when he's closer to 2 (still cheap to buy a ticket for him but not as vulnerable). There was a story about a young mother using the maternity leave to travel the world with her boyfriend and the baby. I got crucified for my opinion but based on having an 11 month old and wanting badly to go back to Ireland for a trip with him and having inlaws who have been holding off on going back to Thailand to wait to bring our son and being torn between what we want to do vs what's best for our son, he are some of my thoughts:

I think traveling to a place like that in the first year is pretty risky.

My parents moved us from the US to Ireland when I was 10 months old. She has told me the adjustment period was torture sleepwise. May not be as bad if the baby is 3 months or younger and just sleeps all the time anyway but when older they tend to get a routine and when the routine is upset, all bets are off.

Extra shots are required. In the first two years (particularly the first year) babies get a lot of vaccinations as it is. It's scary for them and painful. For our son, he also tends to get sick for a day or two after each dose. I wouldn't want to cause him discomfort just to appease us or his extended family.

Unfortunately for us, our son got some of my Irish genes as far as skin goes. It doesn't take much for him to turn red. My wife and her mother are not use to it and get a little worked up over it. Rightly they are worried about him getting dehydrated.

We drove a 5 hour drive a few weeks ago during a holiday. It was tough on him. We won't be doing that again any time soon. The winding roads while being in the back of the car made him vomit. I know in our case, her cousins, unlces and aunts live in remote areas. We would have to fly in to Bangkok and drive north. Even more relevant, safety on the roads in these countries. In Thailand cabs don't have seatbelts, you are meant to just hold the child on your lap and hope for the best.

The most obvious one is illness. Change in climate, exposure to exotic diseases or illnesses that there's no vaccine for. Right now he still can't fully verbalize.

It's just my opinion. I would not bring the baby and I would not go for a month. Even two weeks would be a stretch for a mother at the age your child is.

The lady from Nigeria gave the best advice for if you do travel with the baby. Though, I wouldn't just take the Doctors advice lightly. You know your own baby. Hell, I know myself. I live in a desert with a very dry heat. When I got home to Ireland, everything is fine. Once I get back to Arizona, I'm f*cked for at least 10 days. Horrible head colds. Going from one extreme to the other. Dry heat that's in an elevated place. Damp, cold at sea level...some of it is really common sense and you'll know your own baby. How did it react after vaccinations? Has it been sick already? Does it get dehydrated easily? How does it do with long car rides etc?