Feeling very sad about decision

laurey

Please mods don't delete this. I am not asking for any medical advice. I have gone to all the doctors and got my medical advice. I just need to get the stress off my head. I love boards and would hate to not be able to use it to get things off my chest. Thank you

Anyway myself and my partner have a trip to Brazil booked with our 10 month old baby. The flights are in just over a week and are not able to be changed even paying a fee. When we were booking them I had no idea of the risks of bringing such a young baby. We are going to visit my partners family and they are all dying to see our baby.
I was told by doctors here that his immune system won't be fully developed and it's risky bringing him when he hasn't had all of his vaccines.
My partner is from Brazil and desperately wants to bring his son home which I understand. But I could never forgive myself if anything happened our boy. I think I will leave our baby with my family but I am feeling so sad thinking of him missing us and a month being so long. I just don't know what to do. My head is all over the place. I'm not happy to bring him and I'm not happy to leave him behind either. Our holiday is all booked and paid for and nothing is refundable. I'm in a real mess. I'd be happy to go for 2 weeks but a month is very long.
Has anyone left their baby for a month and was it ok?

Anne_cordelia

I cannot imagine leaving a 10 month old for a month and I think you are mad to consider it. Also that's a huge ask to have other people mind him for such a long time. Around 10 months is when separation anxiety starts and a massive sleep regression. I can't actually believe you are contemplating leaving a small baby for a month!!

Anne_cordelia

Do you have travel insurance?

charlietheminxx

I would rather lose the money than risk the safety of the child tbh. I'm assuming since you planned to travel with such a small child for an extended amount of time that you took out travel insurance? Phone your insurer and explain your doctor has told you that your baby is not yet safe to travel, then see what your options are.

Phil.x

Go for seven days as you can always go back in time, yes you've paid lots of money for this trip but it's your baby your talking about.
If it's your parents who are minding him and you know what they are like with kids and you are happy with it well then go for two weeks, but no more.

laurey

Anne_cordelia wrote: »

I cannot imagine leaving a 10 month old for a month and I think you are mad to consider it. Also that's a huge ask to have other people mind him for such a long time. Around 10 months is when separation anxiety starts and a massive sleep regression. I can't actually believe you are contemplating leaving a small baby for a month!!

It's not easy but I don't see any option. His family have spent a fortune on this holiday for us to travel around Brazil. I checked flight prices to get a flight to Brazil one way and cut the first 2 weeks out so it would shorten it to 2 weeks and it's very expensive- over 1000€ a ticket. I also am wary of vaccinating my baby with a yellow fever vaccine at such a young age. I trust my parents with our baby and I know it's a huge ask

laurey

charlietheminxx wrote: »

I would rather lose the money than risk the safety of the child tbh. I'm assuming since you planned to travel with such a small child for an extended amount of time that you took out travel insurance? Phone your insurer and explain your doctor has told you that your baby is not yet safe to travel, then see what your options are.

No I didn't take out travel insurance. I don't mean to be stupid but what is travel insurance for? Is it paid incase you need to change the flight date?

strandroad

laurey wrote: »

No I didn't take out travel insurance. I don't mean to be stupid but what is travel insurance for? Is it paid incase you need to change the flight date?

It's for emergencies: cancellations, force majeure, health, treatments, theft.
If you get sick or are in an accident in Brazil, who will cover medical costs?

athtrasna

laurey wrote: »

No I didn't take out travel insurance. I don't mean to be stupid but what is travel insurance for? Is it paid incase you need to change the flight date?

It is in case anything happens. Illness, accidents, death, flight cancellation, lost luggage, personal injury, and so much more. It is extremely unwise not to have insurance, some might say foolish. To me it's as essential as a passport.

ShoulderChip

Are you sure the doctor knew your travel plans in Brazil? Brazil is almost the size of Europe (as you know), if for example you are staying in a city centre in a built up area the risks would be very very different to traversing the Amazon for example, if the doctor is basing his advice on threats in Brazil in general than I would seek a second opinion.

Thumpette

laurey wrote: »

It's not easy but I don't see any option. His family have spent a fortune on this holiday for us to travel around Brazil. I checked flight prices to get a flight to Brazil one way and cut the first 2 weeks out so it would shorten it to 2 weeks and it's very expensive- over 1000€ a ticket. I also am wary of vaccinating my baby with a yellow fever vaccine at such a young age. I trust my parents with our baby and I know it's a huge ask

Of course there's other options- don't endanger your child, and don't leave a 10 month old for a month. That leaves one or both of you not going at all, or going for a much shorter time.

Seems strange they won't change flights for a fee, could your doctor not give a note stating medical risks?

Anyway, even if it does mean losing money, this isn't a life or death situation- there will likely be annoyed in laws if you don't- but surely they want the best for your son and will understand.

Ursus Horribilis

Hindsight is 20:20 but really you should book travel insurance as soon as you book your holiday. It not only covers all the mishaps mentioned above once you're on holiday but it covers you for problems that could arise before you even pack your bags. It's advice that's not much good to you now but please don't ever book any flights to anywhere without getting insurance.

Personally I think a month away from your child is far too long. And is there any point in travelling if you're going to be miserable? I'd be trying to find out is there any way to change the flight dates or get a refund.

laurey

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Hindsight is 20:20 but really you should book travel insurance as soon as you book your holiday. It not only covers all the mishaps mentioned above once you're on holiday but it covers you for problems that could arise before you even pack your bags. It's advice that's not much good to you now but please don't ever book any flights to anywhere without getting insurance.

Personally I think a month away from your child is far too long. And is there any point in travelling if you're going to be miserable? I'd tbe trying to find out is there any way to change the flight dates or get a refund.

I don't have travel insurance but I have private health insurance which covers me up to €100,000 abroad so I assume I'm covered in any accident with this??
I emailed the airline and they said my ticket doesn't allow a refund or to change and that I would have to book new tickets.
So sad. I have my travel vaccines booked for tomorrow and I'm still confused what to do. Should I just get them anyway as I will need them for when I do go to Brazil...

athtrasna

laurey wrote: »

I don't have travel insurance but I have private health insurance which covers me up to €100,000 abroad so I assume I'm covered in any accident with this??
I emailed the airline and they said my ticket doesn't allow a refund or to change and that I would have to book new tickets.
So sad. I have my travel vaccines booked for tomorrow and I'm still confused what to do. Should I just get them anyway as I will need them for when I do go to Brazil...

100k is nowhere near adequate cover. As another poster said, you should get insurance as close to booking the trip as possible.

Try looking at your situation through a strangers eyes. If someone told you this story what would you advise them to do?

Ursus Horribilis

Often, picking up the phone and talking to someone works better than emailing. How about giving your private health insurance company a call tomorrow and finding out what they can do for you?

If you weren't going up the walls about losing your money, what would you do here?

Fakediamond

Can you not book travel insurance now? I thought you could take it out anytime before the trip.

Where the baby is concerned, as another poster said, there's a big difference between staying in towns and cities and trekking through the jungles of the Amazon! If you're mainly staying with family, where there is good infrastructure and sanitation etc, what exactly are the perceived risks? Obviously, you can be careful with bottled water etc. Can you not do a bit more research about health risks before you go? Doctors will always give conservative advice, and that's fine, but life is full of risks and you need to make a decision for yourself, having done your own risk assessment.

As others have said, if you decide to leave baby behind, I don't think you can be away for that long, it's too hard on such a young baby.

I wouldn't worry about it. I've good friends from India who have brought their Irish born child home 3 times in his first year and a half. India is far worse than Brazil for picking up dieseses and most Europeans wouldn't even look at India on a map without getting vaccines yet my fiends kid never got any vaccines and has been just fine going back there 3 times.

If anything it will probably toughen him up.

charlietheminxx

Georgia Panicky Mannequin wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. I've good friends from India who have brought their Irish born child home 3 times in his first year and a half. India is far worse than Brazil for picking up dieseses and most Europeans wouldn't even look at India on a map without getting vaccines yet my fiends kid never got any vaccines and has been just fine going back there 3 times.

If anything it will probably toughen him up.

No offence but I really wouldn't recommend this. Especially as she hasn't no insurance. If the baby gets sick while they're in Brazil, the medical costs and rebooked flights etc would cost an awful lot more than cancelling one half of the trip in the first place.

Its too late to take out travel insurance now if you intend to cancel the trip, as to do so and claim is then insurance fraud. I know this isn't much help OP but in the future I would recommend travel insurance for anywhere outside of Ireland and the UK, especially with the baba. It's covers everything - rebooked tickets, illness, medical care, cancellation in unavoidable circumstances etc.

margo321

I'd ask the opinion of another Dr. might sound stupid but babies living in Brazil survive. Maybe you could bring the baby. I would ask a place that specialises in travel vaccines.

bee06

charlietheminxx wrote: »

No offence but I really wouldn't recommend this. Especially as she hasn't no insurance. If the baby gets sick while they're in Brazil, the medical costs and rebooked flights etc would cost an awful lot more than cancelling one half of the trip in the first place.

Its too late to take out travel insurance now if you intend to cancel the trip, as to do so and claim is then insurance fraud. I know this isn't much help OP but in the future I would recommend travel insurance for anywhere outside of Ireland and the UK, especially with the baba. It's covers everything - rebooked tickets, illness, medical care, cancellation in unavoidable circumstances etc.

Travel insurance doesn't cover everything. It covers specific situations like cancellation due to a death of a close relative not deciding not to go because she forgot to check out the health risks to the baby before booking the tickets.

LaLa2004

Regardless of the OP's predicament regarding the baby, she should take out travel insurance in case of an accident or illness when abroad. If your health insurance is with VHI, they offer an annual family package for an additional €149.

elysium321

Travel insurance is not just to cover accidents or medical cost. What about lost baggage, travel documents, missing connecting flights, etc. There are so many things that could go wrong. There's no way I would travel with no insurance.

And I can't even imagine leaving my 10m old baby behind for a month. But that's just me.

Thumpette

Georgia Panicky Mannequin wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. I've good friends from India who have brought their Irish born child home 3 times in his first year and a half. India is far worse than Brazil for picking up dieseses and most Europeans wouldn't even look at India on a map without getting vaccines yet my fiends kid never got any vaccines and has been just fine going back there 3 times.

If anything it will probably toughen him up.

'My friend played russian roulette and he didn't die- therefore Russian roulette is safe'

Your friends sound like selfish idiots to be frank

groovyg

Thumpette wrote: »

'My friend played russian roulette and he didn't die- therefore Russian roulette is safe'

Your friends sound like selfish idiots to be frank

That's a bit extreme, are people not allowed travel with babies ? How long do you wait before the babies immune system is up to travelling to a country like Brazil? The op has said they are going to Brazil, doesn't specify where so it's a needle in a haystack situation, Brazil is massive.

Turtle_

My family moved to a city area of SE Asia when my brother was younger than OP's baby. No issues, just got as much immunisation as he could and continued his vaccination schedule over there.

OP has said she's talked to the doctor, but is that a specialist in tropical medicine? It's not risk free, but you do need to remember that babies over there survive fine.

Maybe I'm wide of the mark, but I'd be more concerned that either of you going at all if the area is a zika risk, if you plan to have more children.

Seriously though, take out travel insurance! (btw, are you sure your cover abroad isn't 1 million? 100k is laughably low)

Thumpette

groovyg wrote: »

That's a bit extreme, are people not allowed travel with babies ? How long do you wait before the babies immune system is up to travelling to a country like Brazil? The op has said they are going to Brazil, doesn't specify where so it's a needle in a haystack situation, Brazil is massive.

Maybe the selfish comment was harsh, I apologize if it was, but I also think the statement from that poster advising the OP to ignore medical advice because he knows a guy who did similarly and was fine was not helpful.

The statement that being exposed to illnesses without vaccination would 'toughen up the child' has to be admitted to be without any value.

How long do you wait? Until you have a very clear discussion with a trusted medical professional about your travel plans and they advise you that it's safe.

MonsterCookie

is your sons health ok in general OP? If so could you not get a second opinion and if both Drs are advising against any sort of travel then you shouldn't bring him.

What does your partner think?

Turtle_

Thumpette wrote: »

How long do you wait? Until you have a very clear discussion with a trusted medical professional about your travel plans and they advise you that it's safe.

The reality is that it's never safe. That's the point

You wait until you can get comfortable with the level of risk and mitigation.

If the op is uncomfortable with that level - and the travel is discretionary so a lower level of risk should be tolerated than if it was required - she should not go. I'm sure his family would be heartbroken, and the op could offer to reimburse them any expenses they've already incurred, but equally I'm sure they would understand if the op said that specialist doctors said baby's immune system isn't ready and don't go... Nobody wants baba hurt just so they can see him!

Anne_cordelia

I honestly think it could be detrimental to your bond with your baby to leave him for that long. I see in an earlier post of yours that your mum didn't want to mind him before as she felt too old so what's changed?

Hmm_Messiah

Turtle_ wrote: »

Seriously though, take out travel insurance! (btw, are you sure your cover abroad isn't 1 million? 100k is laughably low)

It is not laughably low - it is I would think above average (depending on the level of your health insurance in the first place) - my cover is €50,000.00. It is NOT intended to be full comprehensive cover when abroad.

I am a little shocked that some one would plan such a long distance, long duration, costly trip with a young child and not have travel insurance in place. It should be considered essential ( and read what is covered - the cheaper option s just tick boxes - buy from well reviewed site and the best you can afford)

And when the trip was planned no one checked was a young child safe to travel ? There are vaccine/ travel medicine specialists - if you have committed so much money to the trip already I would suggest paying the price to speak to some one who is knowledgeable in vaccine requirements - as others said it can be very dependent on what part of a country you are travelling, what activities .


IF you can't do that - at the end of the day decide what you feel happiest with for your mental health /happiness and take the hit. Could your partner not travel on the arranged flights so only you have to travel on a new dearer ticket for a shorter time ?

Rubberchikken

it's a tough situation. if medical advice is not to take baby until he/she has had all vaccines then i'd take that advice. leaving the child at home with family and going to visit your in-laws will only be enjoyable if you know you've done what you're comfortable with.
the leaving him with family for a month wouldn't concern me. if he's safe and well cared for, he's not going to be aware of the passage of time.
you could even go for just a week or two and come back sooner than your husband.
i hope you get it sorted out and that whatever you decide makes you happy.

Turtle_

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

It is not laughably low - it is I would think above average (depending on the level of your health insurance in the first place) - my cover is €50,000.00. It is NOT intended to be full comprehensive cover when abroad.

I'm sorry but 100k is very little when you go outside the EU. If you take seriously ill or are involved in a bad accident, you don't have any automatic right to be treated for free. If you need major surgery and spend weeks in hospital there's no way 50k or 100k will cover the costs. What if you've to be repatriated via air ambulance? Which is why I'm making the point that her cover is grossly inadequate and she needs travel insurance if she wants to go that far away, especially with a baby. FWIW, most travel insurance covers medical expenses in the millions.

meeeeh

50k mefical cover is laughable. Anyway main objective of travel insurance is to be covered for medical emergencies. Cancelled flights and lost luggage are small sums in comparison to possible medical costs.

As mentioned previously op, did you talk to someone who knows something about tropical diseases and risks in that part of the country? While risks are definitely higher than in Europe Brazil isn't that bad. Mortality rate of children under five is 16 per 1000 kids (4/1000 in Ireland). I imagine majority of those affect poorer population.

Anyway I've traveled a bit around Brazil about 12 years ago and would be more worried about being mugged than getting sick especially if you stay in the cities. But there was no zica then.

Hmm_Messiah

Turtle_ wrote: »

I'm sorry but 100k is very little when you go outside the EU. If you take seriously ill or are involved in a bad accident, you don't have any automatic right to be treated for free. If you need major surgery and spend weeks in hospital there's no way 50k or 100k will cover the costs. What if you've to be repatriated via air ambulance? Which is why I'm making the point that her cover is grossly inadequate and she needs travel insurance if she wants to go that far away, especially with a baby. FWIW, most travel insurance covers medical expenses in the millions.

you seem to be misreading what I said (or I am misreading some one else)- this is their Health Insurance cover - not travel insurance 50-100 k is the norm for health insurance

meeeeh

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

you seem to be misreading what I said 9 or I am misreading some one else0 - this is their Health Insurance cover - not travel insurance 50-100 k is the norm for health insurance

Private health insurance usually covers you for that and even there I don't know about fine print but to actually have proper medical cover then you should take out travel insurance which covers a lot higher amounts and those are needed in case of serious injuries, medically assisted flights or worse. Op has private insurance and she is advised it's not enough.

Turtle_

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

you seem to be misreading what I said (or I am misreading some one else)- this is their Health Insurance cover - not travel insurance 50-100 k is the norm for health insurance

I'm not misreading you, it is laughably low cover if that's all you're relying on. OP seemed to think travel insurance is unnecessary because her health insurance covers up to 100k. That's fine if you stay in the EU, otherwise it's way too low to rely on. Hence, advising the OP to take out travel insurance...

IAO2017

A month is a very long time to leave a 10 month old. I come from Nigeria (which would be similar to brazil in some ways) and I took my 9 month old baby there though the doctor advised against is due to high risk of diseases and she was too young to receive vaccines. I treated her like an egg while we were there. I wouldnt let just anyone hold her. All her bottles and utensils would only be cleaned by myself. Her food, bath, everything was done with the utmost care. Only used bottled water I was familiar with. Mosquito nets to prevent mosquito bites.etc. When we came back I took her to the doctors for tests as my doctor recommended since I told her I was definitely taking her. She was perfectly fine! It's up to you and your partner if you want to take the baby or not but it can be done! And doctors will always tell advice you in general not to travel with a baby to high risk countries. But doctors are not God. It's just what they've been taught! If your baby is well and has no health issues then he/she will be ok as long as preventative steps are taken. But I couldn't leave mine for a month at that age. It will be too much for you and the baby.

Hmm_Messiah

Turtle_ wrote: »

I'm not misreading you, it is laughably low cover if that's all you're relying on. OP seemed to think travel insurance is unnecessary because her health insurance covers up to 100k. That's fine if you stay in the EU, otherwise it's way too low to rely on. Hence, advising the OP to take out travel insurance...

Did you read my post /

(1) I said that the 100k quoted by the OP would not be laughable low but correct for HEALTH insurance

(2) I then went on to express , shock at some one planning such a trip with out TRAVEL insurance .

(3)I was replying to Turtle, not the OP, I actually QUOTED the bit I was responding to


all very Off Topic now

looksee

We took a 2 month old baby to Kenya 40-odd years ago, and had another one in Nairobi, who was then taken back to our up-country house. The two of them were exceptionally healthy and neither had any health issues till be came back to Ireland, during a warm summer, when they got endless colds etc.

Our living conditions were pretty basic, water and milk had to be boiled, food came from a local market. There were mosquitoes, where we lived we were just above the cerebral malaria altitude, when we went down to the village they were an issue, but the only person that got bitten was me.

There was no health care to speak of, but quite a lot of ex-pat mothers who had a good deal of experience between them, including a nurse. I don't recall any of the numerous young children having health issues while we were there (two and a half years), certainly ours didn't.

Turtle_

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

Did you read my post /

(1) I said that the 100k quoted by the OP would not be laughable low but correct for HEALTH insurance

(2) I then went on to express , shock at some one planning such a trip with out TRAVEL insurance .

(3)I was replying to Turtle, not the OP, I actually QUOTED the bit I was responding to


all very Off Topic now

Yeah, I know you were replying to me.. And I explained that my post was in the context of relying on it as your only cover abroad. I asked if she was sure it wasn't a million because I find it difficult to believe that someone would actually rely on such a low level of cover. You can't solely refer to my post as a standalone post when I was addressing the OP...

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

woodchuck

sashafierce wrote: »

OP who are you flying with, I find it hard to believe an airline wouldn't let you change flights for a fee or with a doctors letter?

I agree it's very unusual that you can't change the flights for a fee. I know you already talked to someone on phone, but is there any chance you both got your wires crossed? See if you can find their policy or terms and conditions online and ring them back to discuss in more detail.

dar100

A month is far far too long to leave a 10 month baby without its parents, seriously this period of time will effect the child

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

eviltwin

sashafierce wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

A month is a massive amount of time to be away from your parents at that age especially for a baby who is still bonding with his or her parents, can't understand the separation and has no concept of time. Emotionally it will be damaging. I wouldn't leave a child of any age for a month but especially not a young baby who needs it's parents and the continuity of care. It's also a huge ask to expect someone else to take on that responsibility for so long.

Cunning Stunt

laurey wrote: »

I checked flight prices to get a flight to Brazil one way and cut the first 2 weeks out so it would shorten it to 2 weeks and it's very expensive- over 1000€ a ticket.

Seriously, I would advise you to beg steal or borrow for the 1k to get at least yourself home quicker. Then your parents could perhaps mind the baby for you.
Its for your own peace of mind - you sound tormented.

Tigger99

If you don't use the first leg of the flight your return flight will be null and void and you won't be able to use it. So buying a later one way ticket will not be the answer.

Can you not just tell your partner that you can't do it. And if his parents are pissed off that you won't leave your baby for a month to go over on the ticket they've paid for, then they care far more about their pocket then your justifiable concerns.

amtc

Wasn't the whole point to introduce the baby to grandparents?

ShoulderChip

amtc wrote: »

Wasn't the whole point to introduce the baby to grandparents?

Yes but now we have irrational panic.

afkasurfjunkie

Bring the baby. If the grandparents can afford airfare for you all then it sounds like you won't be in that unsafe of an area.
Take a look at the blog of that woman that went backing with her baby while on maternity leave. Travel mad mum I think it is. Babies are fairly portable at that stage. Some of the replies on this thread are a tad ott.

GingerLily

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

Bring the baby. If the grandparents can afford airfare for you all then it sounds like you won't be in that unsafe of an area.
Take a look at the blog of that woman that went backing with her baby while on maternity leave. Travel mad mum I think it is. Babies are fairly portable at that stage. Some of the replies on this thread are a tad ott.

I really don't think the OP should take health advice for her baby based off evidence of 1 blogger, that is more than a little ridiculous.