This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135373#Comment_122135373

the 70km round trip - what speed will they be traveling at mainly? is it motorway, back roads etc?

being honest, the 3-4k budget wont get you much.

offhand your main option in the 5-6k budget is a leaf 24 kwh which at that age (2013/2014/2015) will have about 17kwh of battery left which will get you between 70 and 120km (depending on driving and weather)

EDIT: afterthought, a Renault Zoe could be an option too

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136013#Comment_122136013

Zoe would be the best option. Unless you can get a 30kwh leaf (they do show up occasionally for that money).

I would highly reccomend keeping an eye on merlin car auctions listings - if you know what you're looking at the 30 kwh leafs generally go for 5-6k

EDIT: bit late in the day but if you can get registered in time I'd say this would be well below 5k

https://www.merlin.ie/details?listingid=5d9baedf-df0d-ef11-8a05-f01fafd9cf1d

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136089#Comment_122136089

Nice low kms, prob a trade or demo for kearys. Also note auction fees..

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136089#Comment_122136089

one of the pics says 83km with the icon showing a full battery. It's hard to tell from the pic but it appears the battery is fairly whacked.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136413#Comment_122136413

It's a guessometer, so the number is meaningless. If it wasnt driven except moving up onto a car transporter and then a couple of starts to move on the auction floor, it may even show less. (there's a hack to reset the GOM methodology, which would show you the real range if you were there and had the key)

Zoes dont suffer the same degradation as leafs did, not uncommon to see 8-10 year old Zoes almost at 100% SOH.

ColemanY2K

The Zoe would make a nice car for my wife to start out driving. She'd need a range of 120km to cover all the basics i.e. dropping the little one to crèche, shops, down to the beach etc.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136449#Comment_122136449

You won't get 120km out of a 10 year old Zoe 22kWh. Save up a bit more and get an Ioniq

I like the look of the Zoe myself, but the cars are very spartan and they scored very poorly in safety. Wouldn't mind that for a car for just myself, but for my loved ones I'm not too happy with that idea. And then there is the battery lease, which defeats the purpose of getting cheap fuel. You can sometimes buy it out but the results are a lotto

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136664#Comment_122136664

It didnt score poorly in safety, it had a 5 star NCAP.

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/renault-zoe-2013/

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136819#Comment_122136819

Looks like you're right! It went from 5 stars to 0 stars though in the newer model, which from what I know is still the same car. Not sure how that happened, I seem to remember they took some airbags out or something.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/renault/zoe/44206

The only car for sale here with zero stars 🙄

BrianD3

The EuroNCAP test used for the 2021 Zoe isn't comparable with that used for the 2013 Zoe as major changes were made in that period. The side impact test went from 950 kg mobile barrier travelling at 50 km/h to a 1400 kg mobile barrier travelling at 60 km/h i.e. a huge increase in KE. Also the frontal offset test went from an "immovable" object to a mobile barrier with penalties for cars doing too much damage to the mobile barrier. Many other changes too. I don't know where the 2021 Zoe fell down but highly likely that any car tested in 2013 and getting 5 stars would get a much lower rating if tested again in 2021.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137038#Comment_122137038

For sure, the goalposts are shifting all the time. It is now much harder to get a 5 star score than 10 years ago. Still if a car gets 0 score in 2021 as the only car for sale here, you can rest assured that it is the least safe car you can buy as per today's standard. Worse than the worst stuff coming from China.

handpref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137038#Comment_122137038

They did away with the side airbags in the new one.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137545#Comment_122137545

They didn't "do away with" side airbags. They made the side airbags smaller meaning the head wasn't covered. The 2021 Zoe still got a good rating for the dummy's head in the side impact. Head rating in the pole test was poor but this doesn't explain the drop from 5 to 0 stars. Also, the pole test itself was more severe and faster in 2021 than in 2013.

There was no centre airbag in either 2021 or in 2013, not a problem in 2013, problem in the more severe 2021 test.

The ratings for the dummies in the frontal impact were worse in 2021 and the score for driver assistance systems was way worse in 2021 (14% vs 85%) these were not affected by the change to the side airbag.

There's no way of telling as speculated above that the Zoe was the least safe car that could be bought new in 2021 as there were plenty of other cars on sale then that had been launched a few years previously and weren't tested according to the 2021 protocol.

cormie

Hey thanks a lot for the suggestions folks! Just to state, the 70km round trip includes about 60km of motorway!

One idea is to get an older, cheaper leaf that could just about do the 70km trip, at the lower budget end and then upgrade once they've settled into their new job and may qualify for a loan and hope to get close to what was paid for the leaf.

This one has been suggested but it may just be a little under range and if that range is going to worsen over time, then it could be even riskier. There is a chance they can charge it at work, but they may need to do this every shift if the range is poor and could mean there'd be no allowance at all to do any detours on the way home if they want to swing by somewhere for whatever reason.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138111#Comment_122138111

Short term petrol may be most suitable for this person tbh. The budget isn't super suitable for use case particularly with motorway speeds. I'd go with least hassle and they can revise an EV that will do it without any thought . I.e ioniq or newer leaf.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138111#Comment_122138111

I posted a few on the thread that you started. Newer Leafs than the one you looked at on Adverts and a couple with 10 or 11 bars of battery = 130km

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058351574/need-a-budget-ev-fast

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138344#Comment_122138344

A degraded L24 would be cutting it close in winter months in my opinion. When they were new they managed about 100 km at 100 km/h in summer, from charger to charger if charged to 90+ percent state of charge and driven down to very low battery warning. Driven really carefully you may get a bit more but not much.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138653#Comment_122138653

The required range is 70km though. Surely it would do that providing you're not hammering it on the motorway? And if my experience is anything to go by, you can barely get to 100kph on the motorways at rush hour.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138745#Comment_122138745

I heard the actual trip is 64km. It should do that in winter, but you would need to be gentle. Probably not go over 80km/h. There are several slow charge points along the route in case of eventualities

All far from ideal, but an old Leaf is very reliable and it would be a far cheaper way to do this commute than in any other car. The requirements are obviously for someone who doesn't have any excess money to waste.

Summer2020

I’m looking to pick up an ev for in or around 20k , max probably 22k. Was thinking a 2020 model 3 would be within budget given new they are 38k now but seemingly not. Cheapest I can see are 26/27k for 2020 versions. Is this just a case of sellers who paid 50k not willing to take a financial hit, and when if ever is realistic pricing going to appear? Thanks

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139183#Comment_122139183

Yep, sellers unwilling or unaware they need to drop their asking prices. A much improved facelift 2024 car costs €38.6k on the road. I posted a 222 Model 3 here a few days ago with an asking price of €22 or 23k. For a 2020 I would aim to pay well less than €20k

Summer2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139259#Comment_122139259

thanks. It’s well and good aiming to pay well less than 20k but the choice just isn’t there. Sellers asking 27/28k are living in dreamland. Hopefully they’ll realise soon enough when the cars don’t shift

Buddy Bubs

Do Tesla owners hold on to their cars longer than average? If so, I can see prices staying high and some sales going through at higher prices.

If they move on as often as other marque owners, it's just another dam waiting to burst.

I can see them holding on to their cars because there's nothing really to change to apart from a newer version of same car, Tesla fans are defo brand loyal.

Bobeagleburger

Take asking prices with a pinch of salt.

If you rock up with 20k cash, someone will sell

dubrov

I don't understand the process if used Teslas myself.

I think private sellers would like to upgrade if someone pays close to their asking (which they won't) and are happy to hold onto them otherwise.

But then you see dealers asking more than the new price for 231 models. I would've thought they would be a lot more motivated to sell

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139783#Comment_122139783

I'm just as confused by the dealers having M3H's for sale at a higher price than what they cost from Tesla. Perhaps they believe there's a premium for being able to pay the money and drive away the same day but that's the only reason I can think they would apply a mark up over and above what the manufacturer is selling them for.

SchrodingersCat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137545#Comment_122137545

Yep.
The euro NCAP tests are constantly improving to better replicate real-world accidents. However, a major reason that the Zoe went from 5 stars to 0 was because they removed the head airbags. In the side pole test (like a tree or lamppost) they found that the drivers head even came into direct contact with the pole. It’s one of three cars ever to get a score of 0.

ColemanY2K

I might give the Zoe a miss then. I see on done deal there's a few 7 or so year old leafs with 10+ bars. They seem to be better value.

It would be charged solely at home (the zappi is getting installed today) so not concerned about Chademo.

handpref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139856#Comment_122139856

You could get into pedantics about whether they ‘did away’ with the airbags but the bottom line is they did- on both sides so it’s not singular - they did away with the side head air bags which is shocking. We had a ze40 at one stage here with the old set up of head & thorax but the cars are very light weight and you do feel vulnerable in them. On the other hand we had a leaf 24 that was poll axed from behind and saved us from serious injury, they are a good car.
Lights are terrible on the Zoe, try get a Tekna leaf with LED lights and 6.6 charger -

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139824#Comment_122139824

There was this premium a few years ago when Teslas were super hot and if you ordered one, the delivery was uncertain. It was well known that some people bought one and drove it straight from the delivery to a grey dealer and made €2-3k profit selling. The dealer then added their profit on top, so obviously some people were prepared to pay a hefty premium to get into a Tesla skipping the waiting list

I don't think there is much of that left now though and the second hand car dealers just haven't adjusted their sticker prices down to realistic levels after the latest Tesla price cuts…