Smoke a doobie man.

Atari Jaguar

Bit ridiculous it's still illegal when you think about it. I was of the persuasion that it should be but thinking more about it, is it really that bad, marijuana like? When you consider that alcohol would make one likely much more aggressive in excess and a few joints and most people are melting butter.


I am not high either before anyone asks.

deco nate

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

Bit ridiculous it's still illegal when you think about it. I was of the persuasion that it should be but thinking more about it, is it really that bad, marijuana like? When you consider that alcohol would make one likely much more aggressive in excess and a few joints and most people are melting butter.


I am not high either before anyone asks.

Your post says otherwise...

(read the first few lines back)

Atari Jaguar

deco nate wrote: »

Your post says otherwise...

(read the first few lines back)

I'm too tired to comprehend the issue. I'm sure I'll understand better tomorrow.

Stigura

Doubt this thread will still be open 'Tomorrow'

But, yeah; I managed to give up the drink. Then smoking, anything. Now, I've slipped back to drinking. This all over a life time scale.

In all honesty? If I could get hold of some of this top quality CBD Tincture? (And yes, I Do happen to have a widely qualifying condition) I'd probably not be pounding my liver as I am now.

" Smoke " though? Why? 'Western' smoking tends to bring in baccy. F**k that. If we can sort out non lethal methods ~ like tinctures and so forth ~ then that's bound to seep into the 'leisure' user side of things.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Tobacco smoking is known to cause cancer. Legal.

Marijuana smoking is known to cause cancer. Illegal

What gives?

Let people do what they want to their bodies.

Atari Jaguar

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Tobacco smoking is known to cause cancer. Legal.

Marijuana smoking is known to cause cancer. Illegal

What gives?

Let people do what they want to their bodies.

I believe the cancer is usually caused by people mixing it with tobacco to smoke it.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

I believe the cancer is usually caused by people mixing it with tobacco to smoke it.

No it's not. Cannabis smoking is the very same as tobacco smoking, inhaling a carcinogenic into the lungs and then exhaling.

The difference lies in that Cannabis smokers don't abuse the drug to the same extent that tobacco smokers do.

You obviously don't get high off tobacco. It's a little fix, which can become very important to a user. I used fags for nearly ten years before I went on the vapour.

Atari Jaguar

The vapour?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

The vapour?

E-Cigarettes.

lazybones32

Maybe a bit of grass is no worse than a pint but there is a lot of different strains that give a cerebral buzz and can make you trip.
My sister and I used to ingest hash - sprinkled on toast and nutella. Takes longer to kick in but you're stoned for ages with no waste; no lung damage and no hot-rock burns on clothes, car seats, etc.

I do believe smoke is a gateway drug and is addictive. I introduced some lads to smoke and some of them haven't moved on from it - 20 years later.

GerB40

lazybones32 wrote: »

Maybe a bit of grass is no worse than a pint but there is a lot of different strains that give a cerebral buzz and can make you trip.
My sister and I used to ingest hash - sprinkled on toast and nutella. Takes longer to kick in but you're stoned for ages with no waste; no lung damage and no hot-rock burns on clothes, car seats, etc.

I do believe smoke is a gateway drug and is addictive. I introduced some lads to smoke and some of them haven't moved on from it - 20 years later.

It's an indirect gateway drug in the sense that you need to buy it from drug dealers and dealers often sell more than just smoke. If you take the dealer out of the equation then it's very unlikely that just smoking alone will spur you on to take harder stuff. Of course people starting smoking weed or hash for the first time might be curious about the harder stuff but that's their own curiosity (which is normal for beginner smokers) not the fault of the smoke itself.

I'm a recovering alcoholic and smoking the odd bit of weed really helped me get through the initial withdrawals. Now I smoke on very seldom occasions, maybe a joint or two every couple of months. It helped me when I needed it and it didn't turn me into a stoner. Taking the dealers out of the equation is the key for some civil discourse on this subject.

Alf Stewart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSX5m1ed-ko

Skin up. Rotation.

xabi

Have to laugh at all the stone heads on facebook sharing all the 'evidence' about weed curing all sorts of conditions and calling for legalisation. If it's ever legalised here they're in for a shock as it will be CBD which won't get you high.

Wanderer78

Oh just legalise it already, bloody boring argument

NIMAN

See no harm in it, most of us have tried the odd one in our younger days, when out partying etc.

But when you are still on them in your 40s and 50s, you really need to catch yourself on.

Wanderer78

NIMAN wrote:

But when you are still on them in your 40s and 50s, you really need to catch yourself on.

Ah I'm not sure about that, plenty of people still drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, consume foods that they probably shouldn't, etc etc. What's the difference?

andekwarhola

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

I'm too tired to comprehend the issue. I'm sure I'll understand better tomorrow.

Over 12 bags of pickled onion monster munch and 7 bottles of Jolt cola.

Vinculus

I find a teeny tiny, ridiculously small bit of weed, smoked in a pipe or vaped gives you a very pleasant buzz with out locking you to the couch and ruining any chance of doing anything productive.
The amount I used to put in a spliff when I was half my age, will now last me weeks.

kneemos

Last thing we need is another legalised intoxicant.

Wanderer78

kneemos wrote: »

Last thing we need is another legalised intoxicant.

are our current laws working regarding these issues?

kneemos

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are our current laws working regarding these issues?

Getting prosecuted for doing something illegal is hardly a reason for legalising it.

Wanderer78

kneemos wrote: »

Getting prosecuted for doing something illegal is hardly a reason for legalising it.

theres no proof that the 'war on drugs' has any real positive effects on reducing drug use globally, in fact in my almost 40 years of life, it looks like to me that this problem is slowly getting worse.

we all know portugal legalised drugs 14 years ago, and we all know it has lead to social collapse, hasnt it?

kneemos

Wanderer78 wrote: »

theres no proof that the 'war on drugs' has any real positive effects on reducing drug use globally, in fact in my almost 40 years of life, it looks like to me that this problem is slowly getting worse.

we all know portugal legalised drugs 14 years ago, and we all know it has lead to social collapse, hasnt it?

It's a legal loophole in Spain,they can't prosecute for home grown produce.
The Spanish aren't given to drinking till they fall over either.


https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwi4z9e6jfvQAhVFCcAKHRlfBDIQFggmMAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmassroots.com%2Fblog%2Flooking-for-cannabis-in-spain-look-no-further&usg=AFQjCNGyyIfJaLctPXfuiD1KfgJLSDunTw

daRobot

It's coming anyway. Maybe 10 years, 20 years max.

California has legalised it for recreational use, and I think that will spur on a lot of places to examine its legal status.

I'm not a smoker, so it's not going to effect me either way, but as it stands, the market is flooded with the alcohol eqivalent of nasty home brew spirits, and that's why you see so much more mental health issues than say the 80's, when straight moroccan hash was being imported.

What you have available here today are plants that were cultivated for maximum 'bang for buck' as in extremely high THC, low CBD.

Now if someone was drinking home brew vodka everyday, you expect them to have more mental health issues than someone having a beer or two each evening. So is the same true for the current cannabis available to the Irish user - nasty, damaging stuff.

Legalisation would literally kill that type of junk overnight, along with that synthetic stuff which is literally poision.

The product is being consumed 'en masse' anyway, so my approach would be one of harm reduction by taking the nastiest, most damaging stuff off the market.

The flip side is that more will likely be exposed to it, were it to be legalised. But, they have the option of knowing what they're buying and can make an informed decision.

I would also imagine that the huge tax intake it would bring, would be more than helpful in offsetting any increased costs to the health services by an increase in use.

It also massively reduces enforcement costs, with ordinary people being taken to court for personal use which, given some of the things that are going on in the country in the criminal justice system, is just farcial.

It also takes a decent chunk out of criminal wealth in the country. It may not be their most profitable product, but it's the most widely consumed.

With no skin in the game, and not being a smoker myself, I genuinely feel the positives outweigh the negatives.

But we don't really have forward thinking people in positions of power here, so it will probably take the British to act first before it can become palatable to the blinkered folk who can't see past their simplistic "drugs are bad, mkay" stance.

NIMAN

Every country in the world would benefit if they legalised and controlled the supply of drugs, rather than spending money foolishly trying to combat them, as its an unwinnable 'war'.

Ireland lead the world with a smoking ban, pity we couldn't get a Dutch or Portugese attitude to drugs and ignore any bad publicity that legalising drugs might bring, cos it would be the right thing to do.

DEFTLEFTHAND

NIMAN wrote: »

Every country in the world would benefit if they legalised and controlled the supply of drugs, rather than spending money foolishly trying to combat them, as its an unwinnable 'war'.

Ireland lead the world with a smoking ban, pity we couldn't get a Dutch or Portugese attitude to drugs and ignore any bad publicity that legalising drugs might bring, cos it would be the right thing to do.

We want to ban smoking completely by 2025.

Tobacco and Cannabis are gone. And good fcuking riddence to both.

Wanderer78

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We want to ban smoking completely by 2025.

Tobacco and Cannabis are gone. And good fcuking riddence to both.

hahaha no they re not, never will be either. theyre here now and thats it

NIMAN

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We want to ban smoking completely by 2025.

Tobacco and Cannabis are gone. And good fcuking riddence to both.

Couldnt agree more, but people will always want to smoke, be it standard cigarettes or cannabis.
An outright ban will not help people lose this will, so thats why I think it would be wise for the Gov to control it and take any revenue from it (instead of the criminal gangs).

TimRiggins

The health benefits are out there for everyone to see. Anybody who denies them is just narrow minded and deluded.

AND getting stoned is awesome too. Its a win win.

Wanderer78

TimRiggins wrote: »

The health benefits are out there for everyone to see. Anybody who denies them is just narrow minded and deluded.

AND getting stoned is awesome too. Its a win win.

ah id question the 'health benefits' but more research is definitely required and i am convinced that some 'alternative medicines' are more beneficial to society as a whole

TimRiggins

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ah id question the health benefits but more research is definitely required and i am convinced that some 'alternative medicines' are more beneficial to society as a whole

There are examples of people suffering serious illnesses who had their symptoms improved by smoking it. Pretty damning examples too.

Widdershins

xabi wrote: »

Have to laugh at all the stone heads on facebook sharing all the 'evidence' about weed curing all sorts of conditions and calling for legalisation. If it's ever legalised here they're in for a shock as it will be CBD which won't get you high.

Yep. There's other natural substances with potential for curing disease but they don't share any info about those things.

Widdershins

It's like any mind altering substance. Some people are fine on it and some people are total cabbages and slobs and tend to stay that way. They were naturally inclined to laziness to start with and the drug accentuates that. And the worst kind of smoker is the paranoid kind.

It's when they drive that worries me.

Stonedpilot

All this no harm in it talk is nonsense. Like anything pleasurable it is addictive and most people smoke in in joints rolled up with amber leaf or some other cheap tobacco and that isn't doing favors either. Have seen people addicted to it and it can take over their life's and the whole day is revolved around 'blazing' or being stoned. Joint in the morning, before bed, in the afternoon at weekends, at events, to sleep, to laugh etc etc etc.

I'll all for people taking it if they want but to say there is no harm at all in cannabis is a ludicrous argument. Guaranteed right now as you read this the length and breath of Ireland some people are smoking weed at home in their rooms basically wasting their day. Sleepy stoned people don't want to do much!.
Everyone knows alcoholics will spend their last cent on booze, but happens with weed too. Lads spending their last €50 on a €50 bag. Happens all the time, rural Ireland is full of cannabis addiction, simply can't be described any other way. Ask them to go a week without a joint?!.

Riesen_Meal

Widdershins wrote: »

Yep. There's other natural substances with potential for curing disease but they don't share any info about those things.

Isn't CBD already legal here?

Saw some health crowd selling it on Facebook the other day...

Help!!!!

Why not open government run cafe shops where its the only legal place to buy but you have to smoke on the premises like Amsterdam but the profits go to the HSE.

Help!!!!

Stonedpilot wrote: »

All this no harm in it talk is nonsense. Like anything pleasurable it is addictive and most people smoke in in joints rolled up with amber leaf or some other cheap tobacco and that isn't doing favors either. Have seen people addicted to it and it can take over their life's and the whole day is revolved around 'blazing' or being stoned. Joint in the morning, before bed, in the afternoon at weekends, at events, to sleep, to laugh etc etc etc.

I'll all for people taking it if they want but to say there is no harm at all in cannabis is a ludicrous argument. Guaranteed right now as you read this the length and breath of Ireland some people are smoking weed at home in their rooms basically wasting their day. Sleepy stoned people don't want to do much!.
Everyone knows alcoholics will spend their last cent on booze, but happens with weed too. Lads spending their last €50 on a €50 bag. Happens all the time, rural Ireland is full of cannabis addiction, simply can't be described any other way. Ask them to go a week without a joint?!.

Thats usually because all they can get is skunk. Some normal marijuana & you get a mellow buzz, carry on with your day & no paranoia

Widdershins

Fieldog wrote: »

Isn't CBD already legal here?

Saw some health crowd selling it on Facebook the other day...

No idea!

Help!!!!

Fieldog wrote: »

Isn't CBD already legal here?

Saw some health crowd selling it on Facebook the other day...

Well theres a .ie website selling it so must be

The Bishop Basher

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We want to ban smoking completely by 2025.

Tobacco and Cannabis are gone. And good fcuking riddence to both.

It's a little naive to think that banning anything will somehow remove it from society cause it won't. Whatever you try and ban will be just as readily available as when it was legal only it now it'll be costing the state money as opposed to generating revenue and that revenue will now be in the hands of criminal gangs as opposed to the state. It's a lose lose scenario for us.

It's completely illogical that we blindly follow this failed "war on drugs" while continuing to applaud ourselves for being forward thinking with things like the smoking ban but we continue to follow this farce of a policy because that's what happens when we keep voting for school teachers with zero real life experience to make our laws.

That aside, what are your thoughts on alcohol and prescription drugs ?

Both kill far more people, particularly when combined, every year across the globe then marijuana does. I would agree that it's not harmless when smoked but there are plenty of other ways to consume it and eliminate that risk. I also agree it can be addictive for some people but then we also have high levels of addiction and abuse of both alcohol and prescription medication. Also the societal problems caused by alcohol are indisputable with abuse, rape and violent crime all being attributed in many cases to the consumption of alcohol.

So given that both alcohol and prescription drugs have far more reaching and negative consequences for society and according to the statistics are for more dangerous for us then marijuana, i'm assuming you want them banned too yeah ?

_Kaiser_

The only argument I ever see for legalising this is that the stuff is out there anyway, the war on drugs is lost, and comparisons to alcohol - coupled with stuff about getting rid of the harmful strains of it as additional justification.

It's usually also always by the younger late teens - 30s crowd who of course this would directly benefit as many of them induldge regularly themselves.

Unfortunately though there's the wider impact to consider - on the health system and other people who are forced to interact with these intoxicated people. Sure, some may just be "pleasantly buzzed" but what about those who do it to excess, or who become paranoid or maybe violent? Someone above mentioned people driving while on these things and that magnifies the risks and dangers to themselves and others hugely.

In short I don't see that the benefits of allowing the younger generation to get legally stoned outweigh the costs and risks to the rest of society I'm afraid (and I post this as someone who's only in his early 40s himself, but grew up in an area where the ill-effects of alcoholism and drug use were very damaging to that environment and the people involved)

pablo128

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We want to ban smoking completely by 2025.

Tobacco and Cannabis are gone. And good fcuking riddence to both.

Both of those substances are natural products which you could grow in your back yard. They are not going anywhere.

Widdershins

Stonedpilot wrote: »

All this no harm in it talk is nonsense. Like anything pleasurable it is addictive and most people smoke in in joints rolled up with amber leaf or some other cheap tobacco and that isn't doing favors either. Have seen people addicted to it and it can take over their life's and the whole day is revolved around 'blazing' or being stoned. Joint in the morning, before bed, in the afternoon at weekends, at events, to sleep, to laugh etc etc etc.

I'll all for people taking it if they want but to say there is no harm at all in cannabis is a ludicrous argument. Guaranteed right now as you read this the length and breath of Ireland some people are smoking weed at home in their rooms basically wasting their day. Sleepy stoned people don't want to do much!.
Everyone knows alcoholics will spend their last cent on booze, but happens with weed too. Lads spending their last €50 on a €50 bag. Happens all the time, rural Ireland is full of cannabis addiction, simply can't be described any other way. Ask them to go a week without a joint?!.

I've been asked for cannabis by a couple of friends, who insist I seem like I'd smoke it?! They don't like it when I say no, I haven't got any and I don't use it.

The way they ask makes my skin crawl. They are hooked and they need the fix. For some people it is a serious addiction.

Free Falling

It's always 'fun' to interact with heavy pot smokers. They all seem to think they have some special insight into hidden knowledge that you don't have despite them struggling to string a few sentences together.

Harmless my ass!

Rumpy Pumpy

The best argument against legalisation is either looking at or listening to a stoner advocating its legalisation.

The Cannabis News Ireland facebook group is little more than a group of sickly looking student stoners trying to justify their addiction by lumping it in with some fairly dubious research about some of the medical uses of the drug. Stoners always have that sickly and slightly vacant look in their face. Coupled with the long drawl in their voice and the shambolic dress sense and you have a very strong argument for why you wouldn't want this stuff readily available to young people.

pablo128

Free Falling wrote: »

It's always 'fun' to interact with heavy pot smokers. They all seem to think they have some special insight into hidden knowledge that you don't have despite them struggling to string a few sentences together.

Harmless my ass!

Well its better than heavy drinkers, fighting, puking, stumbling out of the pub into the bookies etc.

But that's acceptable because the State are getting their tax cut out of it.

scamalert

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

The best argument against legalisation is either looking at or listening to a stoner advocating its legalisation.

The Cannabis News Ireland facebook group is little more than a group of sickly looking student stoners trying to justify their addiction by lumping it in with some fairly dubious research about some of the medical uses of the drug. Stoners always have that sickly and slightly vacant look in their face. Coupled with the long drawl in their voice and the shambolic dress sense and you have a very strong argument for why you wouldn't want this stuff readily available to young people.

Good argument,but isnt it already more then readily available,ask any teenager and bet out of 10 there will be 2-3 who will have connect.Also does anyone know if full house is pimped out for growing how much a year net worth income do gangs get -old documenaries are about 100-300k a year pounds.

if it was legal at some time in future many laws would need to be changed from workplaces to driving,testing,securing etc.
But the crap argument that it needs more research or thats its worse then alcohol/tobacco when both kill more is useless,id rather say there isnt any clear plan how to control it,thus government cant be bothered legalizing it,maybe at some time possession will be dropped,but legal status is decades away.So only benefits are for gangs who profit,and end users who smoke crap knows what's mixed into it.

I used to smoke a bit when I was younger and don't touch it now but I definitely think it should be legal. It certainly isn't harmless but that wouldn't be my argument for legalising it anyway.

Stonedpilot

Help!!!! wrote: »

Thats usually because all they can get is skunk. Some normal marijuana & you get a mellow buzz, carry on with your day & no paranoia

Alot of weed sold in Ireland is crap. Ah each to their own but I've had wasted weekends/weeks etc on the stuff. Looking back enjoy the high but was it worth it?. Meh.

Atari Jaguar

I wonder if it's something that could be done in safe moderation though would that remove some of the risks? Like if you're a heavy drinker you're likely to end up dead early due to liver failure or other organs failing. Heavy smokers are likely to die from lung cancer or other smoking releated illness. Marijuana is surely the same if done heavily it's gonna mess with you more than an occasional thing. I haven't tried it before but I do occasionally drink but can't imagine it being much worse if I was to replace occasional drinks with occasional joints.

Atari Jaguar

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

I wonder if it's something that could be done in safe moderation though would that remove some of the risks? Like if you're a heavy drinker you're likely to end up dead early due to liver failure or other organs failing. Heavy smokers are likely to die from lung cancer or other smoking releated illness. Marijuana is surely the same if done heavily it's gonna mess with you more than an occasional thing. I haven't tried it before but I do occasionally drink but can't imagine it being much worse if I was to replace occasional drinks with occasional joints.

http://i.imgur.com/vHFr8Z5.png


It's a sign.