Arlene Foster and the RHI scandal

FrancieBrady · 01-03-2017 3:39pm

To a large extent it's the two main Unionist parties that are still behind the barricades, but pelting bile at each other. The DUP are petrified of losing power and any eating into their vote will have an effect. Arlene's days are numbered and she knows it. Last night being a case in point.

A Little Pony · 01-03-2017 3:49pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

To a large extent it's the two main Unionist parties that are still behind the barricades, but pelting bile at each other. The DUP are petrified of losing power and any eating into their vote will have an effect. Arlene's days are numbered and she knows it. Last night being a case in point.

So is Michelle O'Neil because Direct rule is coming. Thankfully! Get rid of this god awful system.

A Little Pony · 01-03-2017 3:51pm

RicePat wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Many of us aren't fans of the DUP within the Unionist community but Sinn Fein are a nightmare. So we stick together, we have been doing that for hundreds of years as a people.

Yeah, bloody nightmare, with their gay rights and leprechaun language. What next? Equality for women? Or Muslims?!? AHHHH

This is exactly the sort of tribalistic attitude that prevents the north from progressing beyond orange and green politics.

Women in NI have equality in the workplace, both parties are lead by women. NI IS orange and green politics when it is all said and done.

RicePat · 01-03-2017 3:59pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

Women in NI have equality in the workplace, both parties are lead by women. NI IS orange and green politics when it is all said and done.

No, it isn't but the unionist parties would like you to believe it is because when "fear of the fenians" is put aside all you have is two right wing parties peppered with genuine bigots.
The constitutional issue will be settled by a border poll. SF could win every seat in the Assembly tomorrow and it still wouldnt shift the border an inch.

Regarding women I was referring more to reproductive rights.

RicePat · 01-03-2017 4:01pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

So is Michelle O'Neil because Direct rule is coming. Thankfully! Get rid of this god awful system.

Yeah, much better to have some shower of unelected Tory ministers who fly over once a week making decisions than a locally elected body. This is why tribal politics of the kind you are espousing is so dangerous; it leads to people actually preferring to lose control than share it with "themmuns."

Galwayguy35 · 01-03-2017 4:02pm

Foster looked uncomfortable during the debate last night.

Although Nesbitt saying to give no 2 to the SDLP was something I never thought I'd hear from a Unionist!

RicePat · 01-03-2017 4:15pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Foster looked uncomfortable during the debate last night.

Although Nesbitt saying to give no 2 to the SDLP was something I never thought I'd hear from a Unionist!

He came out with that weeks ago. Pity his party left him absolutely stranded on it. Not one of his candidates has come out to back him and several high profile ones have come out against him on it.
Still, it was a bold move and it might have worked had the SDLP responded in kind but like I said earlier, they're just all over the place

FrancieBrady · 01-03-2017 4:29pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

So is Michelle O'Neil because Direct rule is coming. Thankfully! Get rid of this god awful system.

Well O'Neill hasn't got a rump in her party waiting to turn on her.
The knifes are not just out yet for Arlene but come the end of the count they very well might be.
Despite the 'look over there at the Shinners' deflection by the DUP, there is nobody fooled about who made two massive blunders, RHI and Brexit.

Anatom · 01-03-2017 4:56pm

Despite all of the above, I don't think that we'll see anything bar a slight shifting of the deckchairs.

SF are set to make a slight gain. DUP a slight loss, UUP slightly more. The smaller parties are of no impact so that doesn't matter, as I don't see a huge number of independent/small party candidates in range.

I presume we'll know the result pretty quickly on Friday?

RicePat · 01-03-2017 5:03pm

Anatom wrote: »

Despite all of the above, I don't think that we'll see anything bar a slight shifting of the deckchairs.

SF are set to make a slight gain. DUP a slight loss, UUP slightly more. The smaller parties are of no impact so that doesn't matter, as I don't see a huge number of independent/small party candidates in range.

I presume we'll know the result pretty quickly on Friday?

Should have a pretty good indication by lunchtime friday but there's usually one or two constituencies run on into saturday.

Yeah, the only thing that would make a real difference would be the DUP taking a clobbering but i would be stunned if that happened. The "themmuns" factor within unionism is still too strong.

Long term this might actually help unionism. Nationalists are already increasingly losing interest in the process with the overall nationalist vote dropping steadily over the past several elections. This seems to have energised people a bit but I can see lots of nationalists just giving up on the process if the DUP can act like this and get away with it through a bit of taig bashing.

Anatom · 01-03-2017 5:26pm

You could be correct, but maybe it says something more about either (a) Northern Irish society or (b) the embedded and trenchent adherence to one side or the other that we haven't seen the rise of any sort of middle ground party.

We've moved on from the situation of my youth / teens / early twenties when violence was a real possibility / probability, so there should be a huge swathe of the NI population who have no direct experience of it and who are therefore sick and tired of both sides and their "history".

I'm thinking a PD-type party from our experience in the Republic, even Renua. Something that doesn't want anything to do with language issues or marching routes. A party that doesn't glory "martyrs" from one side or the other.

Until that happens, or until the main parties shed their secular skins, I don't see anything changing at all. (Of course, we're still talking about "Civil War politics" the odd time down here, so that should tell you how long we might have to wait for it in the North...

A Little Pony · 01-03-2017 5:33pm

RicePat wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Women in NI have equality in the workplace, both parties are lead by women. NI IS orange and green politics when it is all said and done.

No, it isn't but the unionist parties would like you to believe it is because when "fear of the fenians" is put aside all you have is two right wing parties peppered with genuine bigots.
The constitutional issue will be settled by a border poll. SF could win every seat in the Assembly tomorrow and it still wouldnt shift the border an inch.

Regarding women I was referring more to reproductive rights.

If NI wasn't about Orange or Green, DUP and Sinn Fein wouldn't get elected. Two awful parties who haven't got a clue how to run a bath, never mind govern a state. Bring on Direct rule, I would much rather the Conservative party rule this place with proper governance than these idiots.

A Little Pony · 01-03-2017 5:38pm

Anatom wrote: »

You could be correct, but maybe it says something more about either (a) Northern Irish society or (b) the embedded and trenchent adherence to one side or the other that we haven't seen the rise of any sort of middle ground party.

We've moved on from the situation of my youth / teens / early twenties when violence was a real possibility / probability, so there should be a huge swathe of the NI population who have no direct experience of it and who are therefore sick and tired of both sides and their "history".

I'm thinking a PD-type party from our experience in the Republic, even Renua. Something that doesn't want anything to do with language issues or marching routes. A party that doesn't glory "martyrs" from one side or the other.

Until that happens, or until the main parties shed their secular skins, I don't see anything changing at all. (Of course, we're still talking about "Civil War politics" the odd time down here, so that should tell you how long we might have to wait for it in the North...

Sinn Fein like to talk about outreach to Unionists and Protestants but then just the other day that god awful human called Alex Maskey was courting the IRA for praise among his cohorts. How on earth he expects to win over Protestant Unionists by saying such things is beyond me.

No Unionist believes in them. At least be honest and stick to your message, they talk from both sides of the mouth.

Havockk · 01-03-2017 5:42pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

Bring on Direct rule, I would much rather the Conservative party rule this place with proper governance than these idiots.

The Tories? Good governance?

Hehe

I hope you don't rely on the NHS or in the future will have to rely on any part of the welfare state. You have a ringside seat to witness the last great decline of the UK post-Brexit. I hope you enjoy it.

RicePat · 01-03-2017 5:44pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

If NI wasn't about Orange or Green, DUP and Sinn Fein wouldn't get elected. Two awful parties who haven't got a clue how to run a bath, never mind govern a state. Bring on Direct rule, I would much rather the Conservative party rule this place with proper governance than these idiots.

Must be why they're doing so poorly in the south....oh wait.

Total nonsense. I dont think any objective person could look at the slow state of progress in the north and conclude that anything other than DUP intransigence is behind it. Look at the Ministerial appointments from the last Assembly and the first actions of each Minister.
While SF Minister's were getting rid of the DUP's Gay Blood Ban, the DUP were spending public money to change the name of a boat because it was in Irish. WHile SF Ministers were ring fencing extra health funding and putting money into rural roads the DUP were bringing back academic selection.

As for the conservatives? I'm assuming you're a unionist but if you think they have any consideration for you as a "fellow countryman" you are wrong. If cuts need to be made they have nothing, not one vote, to lose by imposing whatever they want here.

A Little Pony · 01-03-2017 5:44pm

Havockk wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Bring on Direct rule, I would much rather the Conservative party rule this place with proper governance than these idiots.

The Tories? Good governance?

Hehe

I hope you don't rely on the NHS or in the future will have to rely on any part of the welfare state. You have a ringside seat to witness the last great decline of the UK post-Brexit. I hope you enjoy it.

I am a Conservative, so yes. I will be happy.

Havockk · 01-03-2017 5:45pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

I will be happy.

Until you're not

Like I said, enjoy what you are about to receive.

A Little Pony · 01-03-2017 5:47pm

RicePat wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

If NI wasn't about Orange or Green, DUP and Sinn Fein wouldn't get elected. Two awful parties who haven't got a clue how to run a bath, never mind govern a state. Bring on Direct rule, I would much rather the Conservative party rule this place with proper governance than these idiots.

Must be why they're doing so poorly in the south....oh wait.

Total nonsense. I dont think any objective person could look at the slow state of progress in the north and conclude that anything other than DUP intransigence is behind it. Look at the Ministerial appointments from the last Assembly and the first actions of each Minister.
While SF Minister's were getting rid of the DUP's Gay Blood Ban, the DUP were spending public money to change the name of a boat because it was in Irish. WHile SF Ministers were ring fencing extra health funding and putting money into rural roads the DUP were bringing back academic selection.

As for the conservatives? I'm assuming you're a unionist but if you think they have any consideration for you as a "fellow countryman" you are wrong. If cuts need to be made they have nothing, not one vote, to lose by imposing whatever they want here.

Sinn Fein are in government in the south? Sinn Fein haven't got a hope of being elected to govern the Republic. The people just don't trust them with the economy and running the country.

RicePat · 01-03-2017 5:51pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein like to talk about outreach to Unionists and Protestants but then just the other day that god awful human called Alex Maskey was courting the IRA for praise among his cohorts. How on earth he expects to win over Protestant Unionists by saying such things is beyond me.

No Unionist believes in them. At least be honest and stick to your message, they talk from both sides of the mouth.

I have taken part in the outreach programmes and they are a genuine attempt to heal divisions, particularly the uncomfortable conversations project. Look at John O'Dowd's final speech in the Assembly where he said he was proud to work alongside his unionist brothers and sisters. Martin McGuinness met the english queen FFS.
Thankfully, most of the people who actually engage in these initiatives do not slap the outstretched hand away like you seem to be so keen to do.

No idea what youre referring to with Alex Maskey, the IRA went on ceasefire 20 years ago, disarmed 15 years ago and ceased to exist more than 10 years ago

RicePat · 01-03-2017 5:54pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein are in government in the south? Sinn Fein haven't got a hope of being elected to govern the Republic. The people just don't trust them with the economy and running the country.

Youre just denying reality now. Latest poll has them on 19% How can we be expected to discuss politics when you refuse to acknowledge what's in front of your face?

FrancieBrady · 01-03-2017 5:55pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein are in government in the south? Sinn Fein haven't got a hope of being elected to govern the Republic. The people just don't trust them with the economy and running the country.

They do actually - as part of a coalition and I think you will see that sooner rather than later tbh.
Kenny is about to go and Gerry will go soon, FF will do whatever it takes to get power (as proven many times before) so it will be all change on that front.
'haven't a hope' is way way off the mark.

A Little Pony · 01-03-2017 6:24pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein are in government in the south? Sinn Fein haven't got a hope of being elected to govern the Republic. The people just don't trust them with the economy and running the country.

They do actually - as part of a coalition and I think you will see that sooner rather than later tbh.
Kenny is about to go and Gerry will go soon, FF will do whatever it takes to get power (as proven many times before) so it will be all change on that front.
'haven't a hope' is way way off the mark.

In 10 years time I bet Sinn Fein are still not in government in the South.

RicePat wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein like to talk about outreach to Unionists and Protestants but then just the other day that god awful human called Alex Maskey was courting the IRA for praise among his cohorts. How on earth he expects to win over Protestant Unionists by saying such things is beyond me.

No Unionist believes in them. At least be honest and stick to your message, they talk from both sides of the mouth.

I have taken part in the outreach programmes and they are a genuine attempt to heal divisions, particularly the uncomfortable conversations project. Look at John O'Dowd's final speech in the Assembly where he said he was proud to work alongside his unionist brothers and sisters. Martin McGuinness met the english queen FFS.
Thankfully, most of the people who actually engage in these initiatives do not slap the outstretched hand away like you seem to be so keen to do.

No idea what youre referring to with Alex Maskey, the IRA went on ceasefire 20 years ago, disarmed 15 years ago and ceased to exist more than 10 years ago

He should act like it then, not glorify them while trying outreach to the same people they murdered. No one takes it seriously.

RicePat · 01-03-2017 6:30pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

In 10 years time I bet Sinn Fein are still not in government in the South.

He should act like it then, not glorify them while trying outreach to the same people they murdered. No one takes it seriously.

Well I've just pointed out to you that lots of people of a more reconciliatory mindset do take it seriously and engage with it and put a lot of effort into those engagements.

What is this Alex Maskey thing? I've googled it and cant find any trace of Maskey "courting" the decade long defunct IRA.

Regarding the actual topic, Arlene has released a new election broadcast today featuring her playing with children and a much softer tone. Though she still leaves the auld "Gerry Adams is coming to gobble you up" nonsense to Nigel Dodds. Bit late to be rowing back on your entire campaign at this stage. They must not be getting the response they'd hoped for.

FrancieBrady · 01-03-2017 7:09pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

In 10 years time I bet Sinn Fein are still not in government in the South.

I'll take that bet. It's a no-brainer watching the shapes they are all throwing.
Will have an impact on NI too.

He should act like it then, not glorify them while trying outreach to the same people they murdered. No one takes it seriously.

What is the problem now? Republicans honouring their dead?
Unionists need to get over that. You lost the right to veto- flags, marches etc.
You honour your own and let others do the same. Respect, it is called in normal society post conflict.

A Little Pony · 02-03-2017 8:23am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

In 10 years time I bet Sinn Fein are still not in government in the South.

I'll take that bet. It's a no-brainer watching the shapes they are all throwing.
Will have an impact on NI too.

He should act like it then, not glorify them while trying outreach to the same people they murdered. No one takes it seriously.

What is the problem now? Republicans honouring their dead?
Unionists need to get over that. You lost the right to veto- flags, marches etc.
You honour your own and let others do the same. Respect, it is called in normal society post conflict.

Don't expect votes then. Simple as that.

FrancieBrady · 02-03-2017 8:54am

A Little Pony wrote: »

Don't expect votes then. Simple as that.

You are not voting. Why would you care?

RicePat · 02-03-2017 12:32pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

Don't expect votes then. Simple as that.

Well this is the problem. You have people voting for the DUP, who dont agree with them socially or economically, but continue to do so because of a constitutional issue that will not be settled in the institution they are electing them to.

It's madness, and it goes to show just how ingrained the old fenian fear is in some people.

Stars and Stripes · 02-03-2017 5:49pm

RicePat wrote: »

Well this is the problem. You have people voting for the DUP, who dont agree with them socially or economically, but continue to do so because of a constitutional issue that will not be settled in the institution they are electing them to.

It's madness, and it goes to show just how ingrained the old fenian fear is in some people.

It's like the brain dead crowd down here who'll vote for FF regardless of what what they do including bankrupting the country.

Stars and Stripes · 02-03-2017 5:49pm

Polling seems to be good in most areas, if so it will hurt the DUP and no loss.

FrancieBrady · 03-03-2017 11:59am

Turnout predicted to be over 60%.

Whatever way it turns out that is a good thing. Never ceases to amaze me that people won't vote and then dare to have an opinion about what happens around them.

Arlene Foster and the RHI scandal

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