why the hatred?

RTighe

Just a curiosity question and I hope this doesn't start a small war. But why is there a general dislike or hatred for cross fit. It's something I've noticed in my local over the last few weeks.

Mods if this is an issue then let me me know and ill remove the thread.

Rob

Cuddlesworth

It got a bad rep mostly from a lack of quality control.

RTighe

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

It got a bad rep mostly from a lack of quality control.

In terms of coaching? Form? Methods etc?

Nervous Wreck

Is this still a thing? Thought that was done in 2012...

Cuddlesworth

RTighe wrote: »

In terms of coaching? Form? Methods etc?

Pretty much all of the above. You do a brief exam, pay a fee and open a branded gym. Most are good but there was and still are a few really bad examples out there of what can go wrong with bad coaching. And we live in a digital age, so that stuff ends up on video sites.

This would be a good example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8up6A4QesU

What happened then was the word "crossfit" became synonymous with videos of bad form regardless of them being in a crossfit gym or setting. So most people at this point have had youtube recommend a "crossfit fails" video and bam, brand is damaged. Doubt they care though as its still going strong.

RTighe

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Pretty much all of the above. You do a brief exam, pay a fee and open a branded gym. Most are good but there was and still are a few really bad examples out there of what can go wrong with bad coaching. And we live in a digital age, so that stuff ends up on video sites.

This would be a good example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8up6A4QesU

What happened then was the word "crossfit" became synonymous with videos of bad form regardless of them being in a crossfit gym or setting. So most people at this point have had youtube recommend a "crossfit fails" video and bam, brand is damaged. Doubt they care though as its still going strong.

That video is the stuff of horrors!

Thanks for the reply. I though it was over and done with already but it still seems to be a sore point with some weight lifters

whippet

i know a few people who do cross fit and they spend a lot of their time being injured .. probably a coincidence but from what I see they tend to be all about the quantity of reps rather than the quality of reps.

I know that once my form goes my coach will insist I stop and not try and squeeze out a few more sloppy reps and risk an injury.

Also .. the abomination that is 'kipping' ... what in the hell is that all about. Shredding your hands and holding out ripped palms like a badge of honour! torn hands are an injury not a sing of achievement

Mr. CooL ICE

Not defending what's going on in that video, but I reckon most people watching it didn't realise they're doing the axle clean and jerk, which never looks pretty anyway.

Still, those people look like they shouldn't be allowed anything beyond an empty regular barbell.

shutup

RTighe wrote: »

But why is there a general dislike or hatred for cross fit. It's something I've noticed in my local over the last few weeks.

I think the hatred is a backlash of a combination of the arrogance of the HQ and crossfitters in general and the fact that people who start crossfit cant stop talking about it.

HQ have defined their opinion of ''fitness'', held their own drug fueled competition and declared their guys as the fittest people on earth. That is pretty annoying for fans of athletes who have to 'get fit' and actually be world class at a real sport.
Even average joe crossfitters have the audacity to look down on other training systems or generic gym programming when they are not even in good shape themselves. The use of the term globo gym is a good example of what **** some of these guys are.

The constant talking about it really gets to people. I was guilty of this myself. I ruined many a perfectly good night out waffling about wods. Im so embarrassed now looking back at how excited I was to talk about it. I suppose people just get carried away with any new hobby but crossfitters tend to get delusional and start thinking we actually are athletes.

My own opinion is. Taking part in a good crossfit class is great. Its great craic, can be character building and can help you improve your fitness/strength/body shape.
I hate the BS I mentioned above and the fact that some potential athletes are wasting there athletic talents on an exercise regime. Its not a real sport and Id prefer to see these guys on a pitch/track/field/ring/cage/court than hoping around an industrial unit with their top off.

LuckyLloyd

Why is not a "real" sport? It's a "new" sport. Have we decided that we'll never create any new sports from this point on?

shutup

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why is not a "real" sport? It's a "new" sport. Have we decided that we'll never create any new sports from this point on?

Just my opinion. A bit harsh I suppose but I can't help how I feel.
I'll keep doing crossfit though

RTighe

shutup wrote: »

I think the hatred is a backlash of a combination of the arrogance of the HQ and crossfitters in general and the fact that people who start crossfit cant stop talking about it.

HQ have defined their opinion of ''fitness'', held their own drug fueled competition and declared their guys as the fittest people on earth. That is pretty annoying for fans of athletes who have to 'get fit' and actually be world class at a real sport.
Even average joe crossfitters have the audacity to look down on other training systems or generic gym programming when they are not even in good shape themselves. The use of the term globo gym is a good example of what **** some of these guys are.

The constant talking about it really gets to people. I was guilty of this myself. I ruined many a perfectly good night out waffling about wods. Im so embarrassed now looking back at how excited I was to talk about it. I suppose people just get carried away with any new hobby but crossfitters tend to get delusional and start thinking we actually are athletes.

My own opinion is. Taking part in a good crossfit class is great. Its great craic, can be character building and can help you improve your fitness/strength/body shape.
I hate the BS I mentioned above and the fact that some potential athletes are wasting there athletic talents on an exercise regime. Its not a real sport and Id prefer to see these guys on a pitch/track/field/ring/cage/court than hoping around an industrial unit with their top off.

Great Response and thanks,

personally i'm of the opinion that any sport / training is good for you
within moderation and under supervision etc. but I can see what you mean by being carried away with enthusiasm

Alf Veedersane

Good coaches don't let shi*ty form happen.

Bad coaches often do.

That doesn't just apply to crossfit. Instagram shows plenty of PTs showing their clients deadlifting with awful form. Go into any gym and you'll see nom-crossfitters with poor or awful form.

Beat thing anyone can do us give less of a sh*t about what others are doing if it has no direct impact on your life.

Zillah

shutup wrote: »

Even average joe crossfitters have the audacity to look down on other training systems or generic gym programming when they are not even in good shape themselves.

It's their blatant use of culty practices that makes me have so much scorn for them. Crossfit is not a normal gym, crossfitters are not normal people; we go above and beyond, nothing compares to crossfit; join us brothers and sisters, the leader says fifty more pull ups with any form you please is the way to fitvana. You are a loser if you can't do ten more reps and I don't care if it destroys your muscles and damages your kidneys. Peeing blood is a sign of an elite athlete. You want to be elite, don't you? Just pay ten times as much to this gym as any other gym and your gains will be assured.

LuckyLloyd

It should be noted that the 'rah rah Crossfit is the greatest sport evar #oneteam" nonsense isn't commonplace across Irish Crossfit gyms. More and more, boxes are breaking up their programming according to experience and ability and moving away from the constant testing mentality.

If the Crossfit Games encourages people to walk down the gym, that's great. But how the gym handles those customers is the key. It shouldn't in my view involve getting people to Olympic Lift before they have basic concepts of bracing, hinging, moving down. And people shouldn't need to worry about 1 rep maxes and testing until they've got a few months fundamental training under their belt.

Bear in mind Crossfit itself says 'scale as necessary', but that isn't enough at a certain point. Beginners need entirely different workouts from competitive crossfitters (or people with designs on becoming competitive). Any gym that publishes one workout that everyone is expected to do wholly or in part are being lazy. They'll probably be the gym pushing olympic lifting and traditional crossfit wods. They'll also probably be the gym publishing pictures / vids of people with mobility problems trying to do cleans and snatches.

But the point is that I'm sure there are loads of S & C gyms out there with deficient coaching and programming. Lots of Soccer / GAA clubs that run terrible training sessions etc, etc. In every walk of sports and fitness, there are good and bad coaches. It's not an issue specific to Crossfit.

cactusgal

Hopping on to this thread here. I've done Crossfit for about a year and a half now. I like a lot of things about it, great group of people, wide variety of exercises, focus on 'body weight' activities (pull ups, push ups, etc) gymnastics elements like handstands, etc.

I do feel like I've gotten stronger and somewhat fitter. However, I don't like the long time spent on Olympic lifting in the WODS. Some days, it feels like you haven't done much cardio after some of the WODs. Like, you might only do ten minutes of cardio, but much more time on lifting.

I've been going a lot, but haven't lost any weight. Obviously, I know diet is the main factor, but I think the lack of cardio in some of the Crossfit WODs might have contributed to my lack of success with weight loss.

Thoughts??

JJayoo

Very technical lifts + doing as many reps as possible against the clock = broke

LuckyLloyd

cactusgal wrote: »

Hopping on to this thread here. I've done Crossfit for about a year and a half now. I like a lot of things about it, great group of people, wide variety of exercises, focus on 'body weight' activities (pull ups, push ups, etc) gymnastics elements like handstands, etc.

I do feel like I've gotten stronger and somewhat fitter. However, I don't like the long time spent on Olympic lifting in the WODS. Some days, it feels like you haven't done much cardio after some of the WODs. Like, you might only do ten minutes of cardio, but much more time on lifting.

I've been going a lot, but haven't lost any weight. Obviously, I know diet is the main factor, but I think the lack of cardio in some of the Crossfit WODs might have contributed to my lack of success with weight loss.

Thoughts??

If losing weight is a focus, diet has to be a focus. The difference between a 10 minute or 15 minute metcon will not be as massive as you think in terms of calories used. Nor will there be a huge difference between an hour session constituting 10mins mobility / 30mins skill or strength work / 20mins metcon versus one constituting 60mins steady state cardio. Because in the former scenario you should be doing less work but operating at higher intensities.

There is no doubt that an hour's coached class in a warehouse creates training limitations. Most Crossfit gyms I see don't program much or any rotational work or lateral movement; and could use the odd session that was simply 'row 10k' or similar.

But if you're looking to get generally fitter and stronger and look better naked, crossfit 3 - 5 times a week plus a focus on nutrition will work very well.

LuckyLloyd

JJayoo wrote: »

Very technical lifts + doing as many reps as possible against the clock = broke

The vast vast majority of people should probably never do a workout involving high volumes of full snatches, cleans, jerk variants, advanced gymnastics at pace. It simply isn't a necessity for an average person / athlete and the risk vs reward equation doesn't stack up. It's a specific skill for the sport of Crossfit, and conditioning / power output / explosiveness can be trained using less technically demanding movements.

Good article on that concept here written a few year's ago:

http://powerathletehq.com/2013/12/17/power-pulls-performance/

And that's just if you're talking about athletes, who you assume to be capable physically to some degree. When you're talking about average out of shape Joe's looking to become physically able then there's even less argument for this nonsense.

Crossfit gyms doggedly advocating those things for everyone are essentially engaging in dogma, and are blinded by their own personal interests or biases. Eventually the argument gets twisted to 'oh we know beginners don't need to snatch, but we're worried about the psychological impact on the individual if they see other people doing things they can't. If you can't explain why certain people in your gym do certain movements while others don't; and you don't have progression paths / standards in your gym probably you're crap and your gym is crap. To be really blunt about it.

Connacht2KXX

There's a severe hatred of it for a range of reasons:

1. Its methodology. It uses this concept known as "constant variance" - which effectively means randomness. If you look at their wods, they could have a session of high rep snatches then not touch snatches for a number of weeks. So they want you to perform a highly skilled exercise with low frequency - which is begging for injury. You get effectively no results from it, bar getting your heart rate up and a consultation fee from an orthopaedic surgeon.

2. The poorly qualified instructors. They have no idea about coaching, cueing, technique etc. So they teach highly skilled exercises without any knowledge of the mechanics of the lifts. This also contributes to the high injury rates

3. The cult like qualities of it make everyone involved in it to be a complete douche. It is marketed perfectly as everyone across the world is doing the same workout (wod) everyday, you join with friends, make friends there, everyone encourages each other, form bonds etc etc. You get effectively brainwashed that crossfit is the greatest thing on the planet. This causes you to never shut up about it so you end up coming across like an arrogant príck which further exacerbates the disdain for crossfit.

MightyMandarin

One thing that irks me is 'crossfit bashing' in regular gyms because people saw one ****ty video of a 'crossfit fails compilation' and now crossfit is crap because of this. There's plenty of crossfitters who are crazy strong and have pretty good technique, although doing 50 snatches will make anyone's technique crap imo.


I respect the sport (and yes I definitely think it's established enough to be called that) and it's done absolute wonders for other barbell-related sports. It also encompasses all areas of fitness, like strength, speed, endurance, and although some might think it's a 'jack of all trades, master of none', I'm still amazed when I see videos of Ilya Ilyin, a man who's clean and jerked 246, struggle to do a muscle up even with bands, something which most crossfitters do easily for reps.

Connacht2KXX

MightyMandarin wrote: »

One thing that irks me is 'crossfit bashing' in regular gyms because people saw one ****ty video of a 'crossfit fails compilation' and now crossfit is crap because of this. There's plenty of crossfitters who are crazy strong and have pretty good technique, although doing 50 snatches will make anyone's technique crap imo.


I respect the sport (and yes I definitely think it's established enough to be called that) and it's done absolute wonders for other barbell-related sports.

I agree that some people bash crossfit for the wrong/superficial reasons reasons but crossfit still deserves to be bashed. It is a plague on the fitness industry.

Most (if not all) of the strong crossfitters who have good technique do not follow the crossfit methodology. It is impossible to improve your strength and technique by following their insane wods.

The wonders that it has done for other barbell sports is that their reputation has gone up considering the shítshow that crossfit is. People actually get surprised when they see a snatch done correctly or someone doing a heavy deadlift with good form.

Transform

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Is this still a thing? Thought that was done in 2012...

my thoughts exactly ^^

Transform

cactusgal wrote: »

Hopping on to this thread here. I've done Crossfit for about a year and a half now. I like a lot of things about it, great group of people, wide variety of exercises, focus on 'body weight' activities (pull ups, push ups, etc) gymnastics elements like handstands, etc.

I do feel like I've gotten stronger and somewhat fitter. However, I don't like the long time spent on Olympic lifting in the WODS. Some days, it feels like you haven't done much cardio after some of the WODs. Like, you might only do ten minutes of cardio, but much more time on lifting.

I've been going a lot, but haven't lost any weight. Obviously, I know diet is the main factor, but I think the lack of cardio in some of the Crossfit WODs might have contributed to my lack of success with weight loss.

Thoughts??

its not lack of cardio dude, its your nutrition, youd have lost weight if you went walking for 60mins daily and sorted your food out,

Transform

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

I agree that some people bash crossfit for the wrong/superficial reasons reasons but crossfit still deserves to be bashed. It is a plague on the fitness industry.

Most (if not all) of the strong crossfitters who have good technique do not follow the crossfit methodology. It is impossible to improve your strength and technique by following their insane wods.

The wonders that it has done for other barbell sports is that their reputation has gone up considering the shítshow that crossfit is. People actually get surprised when they see a snatch done correctly or someone doing a heavy deadlift with good form.

"deserves to be bashed" LOL as does most of what i see in commercial gyms with virtually no one doing conditioning and if they do its a sh1t show of a bootcamp class or mobility work where you have bodybuilders and power lifters not able to do an air squat without knee sleeves, wrist wraps, a belt etc

Yes crossfit has its faluts and there are MANY but there is NO one crossfit methodology, just a general guideline that most gyms throw out the window 3 months into working with clients and then proceed to do it their own way.

I set up an online training program over a year ago and 60-70% of those on the program are people currently in a crossfit gym with an open gym policy (they can do what they like in open hours) or they leave the crossfit gym and join my program because the programming was insufficient for their needs
e.g. putting everyone on a strength cycle when 50% of the group need fat loss
or
never addressing clear mobility issues
or
the gym makes every metcon a total grinder and abuses intensity

Crossfit - constantly varied = great
functional movements = great but know how to coach and coach around injuries/mobility issues
high intensity = you need to earn the right to do many movements used in crossfit at a high intensity

So overall yes of course it gets criticism but jesus doesnt every methodology if applied without keeping the client goal in mind.

Connacht2KXX

Transform wrote: »

"deserves to be bashed" LOL as does most of what i see in commercial gyms with virtually no one doing conditioning and if they do its a sh1t show of a bootcamp class or mobility work where you have bodybuilders and power lifters not able to do an air squat without knee sleeves, wrist wraps, a belt etc

Yes crossfit has its faluts and there are MANY but there is NO one crossfit methodology, just a general guideline that most gyms throw out the window 3 months into working with clients and then proceed to do it their own way.

I set up an online training program over a year ago and 60-70% of those on the program are people currently in a crossfit gym with an open gym policy (they can do what they like in open hours) or they leave the crossfit gym and join my program because the programming was insufficient for their needs
e.g. putting everyone on a strength cycle when 50% of the group need fat loss
or
never addressing clear mobility issues
or
the gym makes every metcon a total grinder and abuses intensity

Crossfit - constantly varied = great
functional movements = great but know how to coach and coach around injuries/mobility issues
high intensity = you need to earn the right to do many movements used in crossfit at a high intensity

So overall yes of course it gets criticism but jesus doesnt every methodology if applied without keeping the client goal in mind.

yes it deserves to be bashed. you think because i didnt bash bodybuilding, bootcamps, equipped powerlifting etc that i dont bash them?

the basic crossfit methodology is constant variance which is 100% bullshít.

well strength training is by far the most important aspect of training for novices. no question about it. so the majority of people should start off on a strength programme (bar morbidly obese women).
mobility is overrated. You need little mobility to do a perfect deadlift, bench with more requirements for low bar squat and ohp.
functional movements is again mostly bullshít.
what do you mean "earn the right"? do you mean your technique has to be spot on?

yes everything will get some criticism. but crossfit is the motherlode of stupidity when it comes to fitness. it deserves nothing but criticism and has effectively no redeeming qualities, bar getting a lot of people with barbells in their hands.

COH

I read this thread yesterday and posted this about it elsewhere...

In my experience the vast majority of crossfit hatred comes from the chest-day legs-day arms-day shoulders-day back-day 'wanna-be-but-never-gonna-be-bodybuilder' types who invariably end up as much if not more injured than their Crossfit counterparts because they do literally everything to and beyond failure all of the time with sh*t technique - Which ironically is the EXACT same criticism they have of Crossfit albeit with a different exercise selection.

Pot, meet kettle...

MightyMandarin

COH wrote: »

I read this thread yesterday and posted this about it elsewhere...

In my experience the vast majority of crossfit hatred comes from the chest-day legs-day arms-day shoulders-day back-day 'wanna-be-but-never-gonna-be-bodybuilder' types

I don't think I've ever seen Phil Heath, Big Ramy, Ronnie Coleman or even Arnold bash Crossfit. The only one's I see doing it are the 'bodybuilders' who don't compete in bodybuilding or anything for that matter.

I've only seen Calum von Moger do it in some of his videos and he's just doing it for the lols.

Even if you think crossfit's a lump of ****e at least it's getting some people off their asses and doing some sort of physical activity. At the end of the day isn't that what all sport/exercise activity should be about, right?

Alf Veedersane

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Rven if you think crossfit's a lump of ****e at least it's getting some people off their asses and doing some sort of physical activity. At the end of the day isn't that what all sport/exercise activity should be about, right?

Don't be sensible silly. It's ridiculous and has no positive impacts for anyone that does it.

MightyMandarin

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

well strength training is by far the most important aspect of training for novices. no question about it. so the majority of people should start off on a strength programme (bar morbidly obese women).

Where did you discover this absolute gem of info? Strength is meaningless if your body is broken and you can't even do the movements.

What's the point of squatting 3x bw if you can only 1/4 squat?

The amount of lads I saw in my old gym with f*cked up backs and shoulders was incredible, and imo it was entirely down to not learning the movements properly and not emphasising stretching enough.

mobility is overrated. You need little mobility to do a perfect deadlift, bench with more requirements for low bar squat and ohp.

As someone who started with the traditional 'bro' exercises I wish I'd made time in the beginning to get mobile as it would've saved a lot of hassle.

Unless you grow up in the 3rd world where squatting is a natural position, or you're naturally flexible, most people will have a lot of trouble deadlifting and squatting with a neutral spine, having a good front rack position (not holding the bar 3" off your clavicle while your wrists explode).

These things should be prioritised in the beginning as unlearning and relearning how to lift after you've endured injury after injury will be costly time-wise and money-wise.

functional movements is again mostly bullshít.

They're only bs presumably because you can't do them.

Quite frankly I'm well past the stage of being impressed by aesthetic someone is. Now that I follow weightlifting, I see lads who'd pass for Rob Lipsett-phyisque models snatching 2x bw.

Workouts involving curls, shoulder raises, leg extensions etc. are boring as ****.

MightyMandarin

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Don't be sensible silly. It's ridiculous and has no positive impacts for anyone that does it.

Fair point, brah.

*Proceeds to go back to his 10-rep sets of decline chest flyes.*