why the hatred?

RTighe

Just a curiosity question and I hope this doesn't start a small war. But why is there a general dislike or hatred for cross fit. It's something I've noticed in my local over the last few weeks.

Mods if this is an issue then let me me know and ill remove the thread.

Rob

Cuddlesworth

It got a bad rep mostly from a lack of quality control.

RTighe

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

It got a bad rep mostly from a lack of quality control.

In terms of coaching? Form? Methods etc?

Nervous Wreck

Is this still a thing? Thought that was done in 2012...

Cuddlesworth

RTighe wrote: »

In terms of coaching? Form? Methods etc?

Pretty much all of the above. You do a brief exam, pay a fee and open a branded gym. Most are good but there was and still are a few really bad examples out there of what can go wrong with bad coaching. And we live in a digital age, so that stuff ends up on video sites.

This would be a good example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8up6A4QesU

What happened then was the word "crossfit" became synonymous with videos of bad form regardless of them being in a crossfit gym or setting. So most people at this point have had youtube recommend a "crossfit fails" video and bam, brand is damaged. Doubt they care though as its still going strong.

RTighe

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Pretty much all of the above. You do a brief exam, pay a fee and open a branded gym. Most are good but there was and still are a few really bad examples out there of what can go wrong with bad coaching. And we live in a digital age, so that stuff ends up on video sites.

This would be a good example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8up6A4QesU

What happened then was the word "crossfit" became synonymous with videos of bad form regardless of them being in a crossfit gym or setting. So most people at this point have had youtube recommend a "crossfit fails" video and bam, brand is damaged. Doubt they care though as its still going strong.

That video is the stuff of horrors!

Thanks for the reply. I though it was over and done with already but it still seems to be a sore point with some weight lifters

whippet

i know a few people who do cross fit and they spend a lot of their time being injured .. probably a coincidence but from what I see they tend to be all about the quantity of reps rather than the quality of reps.

I know that once my form goes my coach will insist I stop and not try and squeeze out a few more sloppy reps and risk an injury.

Also .. the abomination that is 'kipping' ... what in the hell is that all about. Shredding your hands and holding out ripped palms like a badge of honour! torn hands are an injury not a sing of achievement

Mr. CooL ICE

Not defending what's going on in that video, but I reckon most people watching it didn't realise they're doing the axle clean and jerk, which never looks pretty anyway.

Still, those people look like they shouldn't be allowed anything beyond an empty regular barbell.

shutup

RTighe wrote: »

But why is there a general dislike or hatred for cross fit. It's something I've noticed in my local over the last few weeks.

I think the hatred is a backlash of a combination of the arrogance of the HQ and crossfitters in general and the fact that people who start crossfit cant stop talking about it.

HQ have defined their opinion of ''fitness'', held their own drug fueled competition and declared their guys as the fittest people on earth. That is pretty annoying for fans of athletes who have to 'get fit' and actually be world class at a real sport.
Even average joe crossfitters have the audacity to look down on other training systems or generic gym programming when they are not even in good shape themselves. The use of the term globo gym is a good example of what **** some of these guys are.

The constant talking about it really gets to people. I was guilty of this myself. I ruined many a perfectly good night out waffling about wods. Im so embarrassed now looking back at how excited I was to talk about it. I suppose people just get carried away with any new hobby but crossfitters tend to get delusional and start thinking we actually are athletes.

My own opinion is. Taking part in a good crossfit class is great. Its great craic, can be character building and can help you improve your fitness/strength/body shape.
I hate the BS I mentioned above and the fact that some potential athletes are wasting there athletic talents on an exercise regime. Its not a real sport and Id prefer to see these guys on a pitch/track/field/ring/cage/court than hoping around an industrial unit with their top off.

LuckyLloyd

Why is not a "real" sport? It's a "new" sport. Have we decided that we'll never create any new sports from this point on?

shutup

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why is not a "real" sport? It's a "new" sport. Have we decided that we'll never create any new sports from this point on?

Just my opinion. A bit harsh I suppose but I can't help how I feel.
I'll keep doing crossfit though

RTighe

shutup wrote: »

I think the hatred is a backlash of a combination of the arrogance of the HQ and crossfitters in general and the fact that people who start crossfit cant stop talking about it.

HQ have defined their opinion of ''fitness'', held their own drug fueled competition and declared their guys as the fittest people on earth. That is pretty annoying for fans of athletes who have to 'get fit' and actually be world class at a real sport.
Even average joe crossfitters have the audacity to look down on other training systems or generic gym programming when they are not even in good shape themselves. The use of the term globo gym is a good example of what **** some of these guys are.

The constant talking about it really gets to people. I was guilty of this myself. I ruined many a perfectly good night out waffling about wods. Im so embarrassed now looking back at how excited I was to talk about it. I suppose people just get carried away with any new hobby but crossfitters tend to get delusional and start thinking we actually are athletes.

My own opinion is. Taking part in a good crossfit class is great. Its great craic, can be character building and can help you improve your fitness/strength/body shape.
I hate the BS I mentioned above and the fact that some potential athletes are wasting there athletic talents on an exercise regime. Its not a real sport and Id prefer to see these guys on a pitch/track/field/ring/cage/court than hoping around an industrial unit with their top off.

Great Response and thanks,

personally i'm of the opinion that any sport / training is good for you
within moderation and under supervision etc. but I can see what you mean by being carried away with enthusiasm

Alf Veedersane

Good coaches don't let shi*ty form happen.

Bad coaches often do.

That doesn't just apply to crossfit. Instagram shows plenty of PTs showing their clients deadlifting with awful form. Go into any gym and you'll see nom-crossfitters with poor or awful form.

Beat thing anyone can do us give less of a sh*t about what others are doing if it has no direct impact on your life.

Zillah

shutup wrote: »

Even average joe crossfitters have the audacity to look down on other training systems or generic gym programming when they are not even in good shape themselves.

It's their blatant use of culty practices that makes me have so much scorn for them. Crossfit is not a normal gym, crossfitters are not normal people; we go above and beyond, nothing compares to crossfit; join us brothers and sisters, the leader says fifty more pull ups with any form you please is the way to fitvana. You are a loser if you can't do ten more reps and I don't care if it destroys your muscles and damages your kidneys. Peeing blood is a sign of an elite athlete. You want to be elite, don't you? Just pay ten times as much to this gym as any other gym and your gains will be assured.

LuckyLloyd

It should be noted that the 'rah rah Crossfit is the greatest sport evar #oneteam" nonsense isn't commonplace across Irish Crossfit gyms. More and more, boxes are breaking up their programming according to experience and ability and moving away from the constant testing mentality.

If the Crossfit Games encourages people to walk down the gym, that's great. But how the gym handles those customers is the key. It shouldn't in my view involve getting people to Olympic Lift before they have basic concepts of bracing, hinging, moving down. And people shouldn't need to worry about 1 rep maxes and testing until they've got a few months fundamental training under their belt.

Bear in mind Crossfit itself says 'scale as necessary', but that isn't enough at a certain point. Beginners need entirely different workouts from competitive crossfitters (or people with designs on becoming competitive). Any gym that publishes one workout that everyone is expected to do wholly or in part are being lazy. They'll probably be the gym pushing olympic lifting and traditional crossfit wods. They'll also probably be the gym publishing pictures / vids of people with mobility problems trying to do cleans and snatches.

But the point is that I'm sure there are loads of S & C gyms out there with deficient coaching and programming. Lots of Soccer / GAA clubs that run terrible training sessions etc, etc. In every walk of sports and fitness, there are good and bad coaches. It's not an issue specific to Crossfit.

cactusgal

Hopping on to this thread here. I've done Crossfit for about a year and a half now. I like a lot of things about it, great group of people, wide variety of exercises, focus on 'body weight' activities (pull ups, push ups, etc) gymnastics elements like handstands, etc.

I do feel like I've gotten stronger and somewhat fitter. However, I don't like the long time spent on Olympic lifting in the WODS. Some days, it feels like you haven't done much cardio after some of the WODs. Like, you might only do ten minutes of cardio, but much more time on lifting.

I've been going a lot, but haven't lost any weight. Obviously, I know diet is the main factor, but I think the lack of cardio in some of the Crossfit WODs might have contributed to my lack of success with weight loss.

Thoughts??

JJayoo

Very technical lifts + doing as many reps as possible against the clock = broke

LuckyLloyd

cactusgal wrote: »

Hopping on to this thread here. I've done Crossfit for about a year and a half now. I like a lot of things about it, great group of people, wide variety of exercises, focus on 'body weight' activities (pull ups, push ups, etc) gymnastics elements like handstands, etc.

I do feel like I've gotten stronger and somewhat fitter. However, I don't like the long time spent on Olympic lifting in the WODS. Some days, it feels like you haven't done much cardio after some of the WODs. Like, you might only do ten minutes of cardio, but much more time on lifting.

I've been going a lot, but haven't lost any weight. Obviously, I know diet is the main factor, but I think the lack of cardio in some of the Crossfit WODs might have contributed to my lack of success with weight loss.

Thoughts??

If losing weight is a focus, diet has to be a focus. The difference between a 10 minute or 15 minute metcon will not be as massive as you think in terms of calories used. Nor will there be a huge difference between an hour session constituting 10mins mobility / 30mins skill or strength work / 20mins metcon versus one constituting 60mins steady state cardio. Because in the former scenario you should be doing less work but operating at higher intensities.

There is no doubt that an hour's coached class in a warehouse creates training limitations. Most Crossfit gyms I see don't program much or any rotational work or lateral movement; and could use the odd session that was simply 'row 10k' or similar.

But if you're looking to get generally fitter and stronger and look better naked, crossfit 3 - 5 times a week plus a focus on nutrition will work very well.

LuckyLloyd

JJayoo wrote: »

Very technical lifts + doing as many reps as possible against the clock = broke

The vast vast majority of people should probably never do a workout involving high volumes of full snatches, cleans, jerk variants, advanced gymnastics at pace. It simply isn't a necessity for an average person / athlete and the risk vs reward equation doesn't stack up. It's a specific skill for the sport of Crossfit, and conditioning / power output / explosiveness can be trained using less technically demanding movements.

Good article on that concept here written a few year's ago:

http://powerathletehq.com/2013/12/17/power-pulls-performance/

And that's just if you're talking about athletes, who you assume to be capable physically to some degree. When you're talking about average out of shape Joe's looking to become physically able then there's even less argument for this nonsense.

Crossfit gyms doggedly advocating those things for everyone are essentially engaging in dogma, and are blinded by their own personal interests or biases. Eventually the argument gets twisted to 'oh we know beginners don't need to snatch, but we're worried about the psychological impact on the individual if they see other people doing things they can't. If you can't explain why certain people in your gym do certain movements while others don't; and you don't have progression paths / standards in your gym probably you're crap and your gym is crap. To be really blunt about it.

Connacht2KXX

There's a severe hatred of it for a range of reasons:

1. Its methodology. It uses this concept known as "constant variance" - which effectively means randomness. If you look at their wods, they could have a session of high rep snatches then not touch snatches for a number of weeks. So they want you to perform a highly skilled exercise with low frequency - which is begging for injury. You get effectively no results from it, bar getting your heart rate up and a consultation fee from an orthopaedic surgeon.

2. The poorly qualified instructors. They have no idea about coaching, cueing, technique etc. So they teach highly skilled exercises without any knowledge of the mechanics of the lifts. This also contributes to the high injury rates

3. The cult like qualities of it make everyone involved in it to be a complete douche. It is marketed perfectly as everyone across the world is doing the same workout (wod) everyday, you join with friends, make friends there, everyone encourages each other, form bonds etc etc. You get effectively brainwashed that crossfit is the greatest thing on the planet. This causes you to never shut up about it so you end up coming across like an arrogant príck which further exacerbates the disdain for crossfit.

MightyMandarin

One thing that irks me is 'crossfit bashing' in regular gyms because people saw one ****ty video of a 'crossfit fails compilation' and now crossfit is crap because of this. There's plenty of crossfitters who are crazy strong and have pretty good technique, although doing 50 snatches will make anyone's technique crap imo.


I respect the sport (and yes I definitely think it's established enough to be called that) and it's done absolute wonders for other barbell-related sports. It also encompasses all areas of fitness, like strength, speed, endurance, and although some might think it's a 'jack of all trades, master of none', I'm still amazed when I see videos of Ilya Ilyin, a man who's clean and jerked 246, struggle to do a muscle up even with bands, something which most crossfitters do easily for reps.

Connacht2KXX

MightyMandarin wrote: »

One thing that irks me is 'crossfit bashing' in regular gyms because people saw one ****ty video of a 'crossfit fails compilation' and now crossfit is crap because of this. There's plenty of crossfitters who are crazy strong and have pretty good technique, although doing 50 snatches will make anyone's technique crap imo.


I respect the sport (and yes I definitely think it's established enough to be called that) and it's done absolute wonders for other barbell-related sports.

I agree that some people bash crossfit for the wrong/superficial reasons reasons but crossfit still deserves to be bashed. It is a plague on the fitness industry.

Most (if not all) of the strong crossfitters who have good technique do not follow the crossfit methodology. It is impossible to improve your strength and technique by following their insane wods.

The wonders that it has done for other barbell sports is that their reputation has gone up considering the shítshow that crossfit is. People actually get surprised when they see a snatch done correctly or someone doing a heavy deadlift with good form.

Transform

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Is this still a thing? Thought that was done in 2012...

my thoughts exactly ^^

Transform

cactusgal wrote: »

Hopping on to this thread here. I've done Crossfit for about a year and a half now. I like a lot of things about it, great group of people, wide variety of exercises, focus on 'body weight' activities (pull ups, push ups, etc) gymnastics elements like handstands, etc.

I do feel like I've gotten stronger and somewhat fitter. However, I don't like the long time spent on Olympic lifting in the WODS. Some days, it feels like you haven't done much cardio after some of the WODs. Like, you might only do ten minutes of cardio, but much more time on lifting.

I've been going a lot, but haven't lost any weight. Obviously, I know diet is the main factor, but I think the lack of cardio in some of the Crossfit WODs might have contributed to my lack of success with weight loss.

Thoughts??

its not lack of cardio dude, its your nutrition, youd have lost weight if you went walking for 60mins daily and sorted your food out,

Transform

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

I agree that some people bash crossfit for the wrong/superficial reasons reasons but crossfit still deserves to be bashed. It is a plague on the fitness industry.

Most (if not all) of the strong crossfitters who have good technique do not follow the crossfit methodology. It is impossible to improve your strength and technique by following their insane wods.

The wonders that it has done for other barbell sports is that their reputation has gone up considering the shítshow that crossfit is. People actually get surprised when they see a snatch done correctly or someone doing a heavy deadlift with good form.

"deserves to be bashed" LOL as does most of what i see in commercial gyms with virtually no one doing conditioning and if they do its a sh1t show of a bootcamp class or mobility work where you have bodybuilders and power lifters not able to do an air squat without knee sleeves, wrist wraps, a belt etc

Yes crossfit has its faluts and there are MANY but there is NO one crossfit methodology, just a general guideline that most gyms throw out the window 3 months into working with clients and then proceed to do it their own way.

I set up an online training program over a year ago and 60-70% of those on the program are people currently in a crossfit gym with an open gym policy (they can do what they like in open hours) or they leave the crossfit gym and join my program because the programming was insufficient for their needs
e.g. putting everyone on a strength cycle when 50% of the group need fat loss
or
never addressing clear mobility issues
or
the gym makes every metcon a total grinder and abuses intensity

Crossfit - constantly varied = great
functional movements = great but know how to coach and coach around injuries/mobility issues
high intensity = you need to earn the right to do many movements used in crossfit at a high intensity

So overall yes of course it gets criticism but jesus doesnt every methodology if applied without keeping the client goal in mind.

Connacht2KXX

Transform wrote: »

"deserves to be bashed" LOL as does most of what i see in commercial gyms with virtually no one doing conditioning and if they do its a sh1t show of a bootcamp class or mobility work where you have bodybuilders and power lifters not able to do an air squat without knee sleeves, wrist wraps, a belt etc

Yes crossfit has its faluts and there are MANY but there is NO one crossfit methodology, just a general guideline that most gyms throw out the window 3 months into working with clients and then proceed to do it their own way.

I set up an online training program over a year ago and 60-70% of those on the program are people currently in a crossfit gym with an open gym policy (they can do what they like in open hours) or they leave the crossfit gym and join my program because the programming was insufficient for their needs
e.g. putting everyone on a strength cycle when 50% of the group need fat loss
or
never addressing clear mobility issues
or
the gym makes every metcon a total grinder and abuses intensity

Crossfit - constantly varied = great
functional movements = great but know how to coach and coach around injuries/mobility issues
high intensity = you need to earn the right to do many movements used in crossfit at a high intensity

So overall yes of course it gets criticism but jesus doesnt every methodology if applied without keeping the client goal in mind.

yes it deserves to be bashed. you think because i didnt bash bodybuilding, bootcamps, equipped powerlifting etc that i dont bash them?

the basic crossfit methodology is constant variance which is 100% bullshít.

well strength training is by far the most important aspect of training for novices. no question about it. so the majority of people should start off on a strength programme (bar morbidly obese women).
mobility is overrated. You need little mobility to do a perfect deadlift, bench with more requirements for low bar squat and ohp.
functional movements is again mostly bullshít.
what do you mean "earn the right"? do you mean your technique has to be spot on?

yes everything will get some criticism. but crossfit is the motherlode of stupidity when it comes to fitness. it deserves nothing but criticism and has effectively no redeeming qualities, bar getting a lot of people with barbells in their hands.

COH

I read this thread yesterday and posted this about it elsewhere...

In my experience the vast majority of crossfit hatred comes from the chest-day legs-day arms-day shoulders-day back-day 'wanna-be-but-never-gonna-be-bodybuilder' types who invariably end up as much if not more injured than their Crossfit counterparts because they do literally everything to and beyond failure all of the time with sh*t technique - Which ironically is the EXACT same criticism they have of Crossfit albeit with a different exercise selection.

Pot, meet kettle...

MightyMandarin

COH wrote: »

I read this thread yesterday and posted this about it elsewhere...

In my experience the vast majority of crossfit hatred comes from the chest-day legs-day arms-day shoulders-day back-day 'wanna-be-but-never-gonna-be-bodybuilder' types

I don't think I've ever seen Phil Heath, Big Ramy, Ronnie Coleman or even Arnold bash Crossfit. The only one's I see doing it are the 'bodybuilders' who don't compete in bodybuilding or anything for that matter.

I've only seen Calum von Moger do it in some of his videos and he's just doing it for the lols.

Even if you think crossfit's a lump of ****e at least it's getting some people off their asses and doing some sort of physical activity. At the end of the day isn't that what all sport/exercise activity should be about, right?

Alf Veedersane

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Rven if you think crossfit's a lump of ****e at least it's getting some people off their asses and doing some sort of physical activity. At the end of the day isn't that what all sport/exercise activity should be about, right?

Don't be sensible silly. It's ridiculous and has no positive impacts for anyone that does it.

MightyMandarin

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

well strength training is by far the most important aspect of training for novices. no question about it. so the majority of people should start off on a strength programme (bar morbidly obese women).

Where did you discover this absolute gem of info? Strength is meaningless if your body is broken and you can't even do the movements.

What's the point of squatting 3x bw if you can only 1/4 squat?

The amount of lads I saw in my old gym with f*cked up backs and shoulders was incredible, and imo it was entirely down to not learning the movements properly and not emphasising stretching enough.

mobility is overrated. You need little mobility to do a perfect deadlift, bench with more requirements for low bar squat and ohp.

As someone who started with the traditional 'bro' exercises I wish I'd made time in the beginning to get mobile as it would've saved a lot of hassle.

Unless you grow up in the 3rd world where squatting is a natural position, or you're naturally flexible, most people will have a lot of trouble deadlifting and squatting with a neutral spine, having a good front rack position (not holding the bar 3" off your clavicle while your wrists explode).

These things should be prioritised in the beginning as unlearning and relearning how to lift after you've endured injury after injury will be costly time-wise and money-wise.

functional movements is again mostly bullshít.

They're only bs presumably because you can't do them.

Quite frankly I'm well past the stage of being impressed by aesthetic someone is. Now that I follow weightlifting, I see lads who'd pass for Rob Lipsett-phyisque models snatching 2x bw.

Workouts involving curls, shoulder raises, leg extensions etc. are boring as ****.

MightyMandarin

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Don't be sensible silly. It's ridiculous and has no positive impacts for anyone that does it.

Fair point, brah.

*Proceeds to go back to his 10-rep sets of decline chest flyes.*

COH

Bodybuilding hate is as irrational as Crossfit hate.

#StopTheHate

Connacht2KXX

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Where did you discover this absolute gem of info? Strength is meaningless if your body is broken and you can't even do the movements.

What's the point of squatting 3x bw if you can only 1/4 squat?

The amount of lads I saw in my old gym with f*cked up backs and shoulders was incredible, and imo it was entirely down to not learning the movements properly and not emphasising stretching enough.




As someone who started with the traditional 'bro' exercises I wish I'd made time in the beginning to get mobile as it would've saved a lot of hassle.

Unless you grow up in the 3rd world where squatting is a natural position, or you're naturally flexible, most people will have a lot of trouble deadlifting and squatting with a neutral spine, having a good front rack position (not holding the bar 3" off your clavicle while your wrists explode).

These things should be prioritised in the beginning as unlearning and relearning how to lift after you've endured injury after injury will be costly time-wise and money-wise.



They're only bs presumably because you can't do them.

Quite frankly I'm well past the stage of being impressed by aesthetic someone is. Now that I follow weightlifting, I see lads who'd pass for Rob Lipsett-phyisque models snatching 2x bw.

Workouts involving curls, shoulder raises, leg extensions etc. are boring as ****.

Strength training is getting strong over an effective range of motion while performing the movement correctly. Doing this correctly will not result in injury. Getting a 140kg squat as a novice over a 2-3 month period is far more important than any functional movement nonsense out there.

Unless you have insanely tight hamstrings and severe thoracic kyphosis, "mobility" should not interfere with correctly deadlifting. The same applies to squatting. Mobility is entirely overrated. Certain people with severe limitations should invest time in it, but most people should focus purely on squatting and deadlifting correctly.

What does the physique of an athlete have to do with weightlifting?

100% agree bro splits are useless as hell.

MightyMandarin

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

Strength training is getting strong over an effective range of motion while performing the movement correctly. Doing this correctly will not result in injury. Getting a 140kg squat as a novice over a 2-3 month period is far more important than any functional movement nonsense out there.

Well how can you break squat PR's if you can't squat? That was my point. Some people just can't squat to depth the first day they go in the gym, so slapping a ton of weight on the bar and hoping for the best will do **** all good.

Unless you have insanely tight hamstrings and severe thoracic kyphosis, "mobility" should not interfere with correctly deadlifting. The same applies to squatting. Mobility is entirely overrated. Certain people with severe limitations should invest time in it, but most people should focus purely on squatting and deadlifting correctly.

Again, a lot of people can't do these movements the first day in the gym; I saw lads in the gym for months who still couldn't do them right. Learning positional awareness (i.e. Tight back, not letting hips shoot up after initiating the pull) takes time, and again, slapping a ton of weight on the bar the first day in the gym will do nobody any good.

My housemate is looking for me to teach him the basic lifts at the moment, and it wasn't until I showed him a photo of his back position while deadlifting, that he realised his hips were sky-high and his back was completely rounded.

These movements are relatively simple once you know what you're doing, but that's easier said than done.

Connacht2KXX

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Well how can you break squat PR's if you can't squat? That was my point. Some people just can't squat to depth the first day they go in the gym, so slapping a ton of weight on the bar and hoping for the best will do **** all good.



Again, a lot of people can't do these movements the first day in the gym; I saw lads in the gym for months who still couldn't do them right. Learning positional awareness (i.e. Tight back, not letting hips shoot up after initiating the pull) takes time, and again, slapping a ton of weight on the bar the first day in the gym will do nobody any good.

My housemate is looking for me to teach him the basic lifts at the moment, and it wasn't until I showed him a photo of his back position while deadlifting, that he realised his hips were sky-high and his back was completely rounded.

These movements are relatively simple once you know what you're doing, but that's easier said than done.

The only people who cant squat to depth the first day they walk into the gym are elderly people or people with ailments as I've already described. Most people can squat to depth provided they have the right cues, a correct coach and video tape themselves. I never said you slap a shít tonne of weight onto the bar. The whole approach is to nail your form down with the bar, increase the weight until it becomes a bit challenging, perform 3x5. Then increase the weight each session.

The only reason that it's difficult atm to squat to depth for novices is because of the horrific state the industry is in. It prioritises machines, functional movement, bodybuilding crap etc etc. If people just focused on squatting and deadlifting correctly and got strong, there would be few issues. The main problem with it is that it's not profitable from the gym's POV, so they invest in all of this nonsense. Crossfit directly and largely contributes to the disgrace that is the modern fitness industry.

Zillah

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

The only people who cant squat to depth the first day they walk into the gym are elderly people or people with ailments as I've already described.

You keep saying this but it just isn't true. I was showing a friend (young, perfectly healthy, but a typical "exercise is completely new to me" person) the basics and he could not manage good form on a squat. Eventually we discovered his hamstrings were so tight/short that he couldn't do a body weight squat to any decent depth; the muscle just reached its maximum extension far too quickly.

Alf Veedersane

And it's more than just hamstring tightness or inflexibility that limits people being able to depth properly

Mellor

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

There's a severe hatred of it for a range of reasons:

1. Its methodology. It uses this concept known as "constant variance" - which effectively means randomness. If you look at their wods, they could have a session of high rep snatches then not touch snatches for a number of weeks.

Is that actually true?

The Wods might be random. But they are the conditioning/cardio element, not strength training.
The strength training is completely separate. Assuming a typical person spend an hour in the gym, the Wod only takes up 5-10mins. That leaves 50mins for warm up, strength programing, specific work etc.

2. The poorly qualified instructors. They have no idea about coaching, cueing, technique etc. So they teach highly skilled exercises without any knowledge of the mechanics of the lifts. This also contributes to the high injury rates

Generalisation. Not all coaches are poor.
Any activity will be sub-optimal with a poorly qualified instructor.

It is marketed perfectly as everyone across the world is doing the same workout (wod) everyday,

I don't think that's true either.

Transform

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

The only people who cant squat to depth the first day they walk into the gym are elderly people or people with ailments as I've already described. Most people can squat to depth provided they have the right cues, a correct coach and video tape themselves. I never said you slap a shít tonne of weight onto the bar. The whole approach is to nail your form down with the bar, increase the weight until it becomes a bit challenging, perform 3x5. Then increase the weight each session.

The only reason that it's difficult atm to squat to depth for novices is because of the horrific state the industry is in. It prioritises machines, functional movement, bodybuilding crap etc etc. If people just focused on squatting and deadlifting correctly and got strong, there would be few issues. The main problem with it is that it's not profitable from the gym's POV, so they invest in all of this nonsense. Crossfit directly and largely contributes to the disgrace that is the modern fitness industry.

Just this morning I watched a friend of mine coach a lady with a brain injury how to squat, he's a crossfit coach.
I see this all the time and I see stupid sh1t also.
You're speaking from a place where I'm going to guess you've never actually coached anyone?

Mars Bar

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

The only people who cant squat to depth the first day they walk into the gym are elderly people or people with ailments as I've already described.

Well that's bull. The gym I attend runs a monthly movement and mobility class and the amount of mid 20s to early 30 going to the class who can't squat to depth disproves you. Even more can't get good motion on their deadlifts coz of hamstrings. The stretching and Mobility movements they've brought in to the classes has seen a record low for shoulder injuries in the gym.

Mr. CooL ICE

When I started lifting, I was 28, working a desk job, had just completed a marathon and played 5-a-side every week. My mobility up until that point was typical secondary PE stuff (lunging calf stretch, heel to ass quad stretch, etc). I couldn't hit parallel with an empty bar and I couldn't touch my toes with my knees straight.

I'm pretty sure I was somewhat typical of a first-time lifter that many PTs deal with.

drdeadlift

Its the people that do crossfit not crossfit itself.They arent all nobs but an awfull lot are.

Transform

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

When I started lifting, I was 28, working a desk job, had just completed a marathon and played 5-a-side every week. My mobility up until that point was typical secondary PE stuff (lunging calf stretch, heel to ass quad stretch, etc). I couldn't hit parallel with an empty bar and I couldn't touch my toes with my knees straight.

I'm pretty sure I was somewhat typical of a first-time lifter that many PTs deal with.

you are 100% right.

Look overall poster Connacht2KXX youve watched a few crossfit videos or heard through the grapevine as to what crossfit is all about and thats clouded your judgement.

Decent crossfit coaches have more in common with what you would like to see more of in gyms than less of so lets all get along and let the results speak for themselves

MightyMandarin

drdeadlift wrote: »

Its the people that do crossfit not crossfit itself.They arent all nobs but an awfull lot are.

There's dickheads everywhere pal. Go to any powerlifting, weightlifting or bodybuilding gym and you'll find some.

Just don't let them alter your general perception of the people who get involved in the sports; it doesn't really do anyone any good, considering how small the community of people who like to lift weights and partake in resistance training is.

Transform

MightyMandarin wrote: »

There's dickheads everywhere pal. Go to any powerlifting, weightlifting or bodybuilding gym and you'll find some.

Just don't let them alter your general perception of the people who get involved in the sports; it doesn't really do anyone any good, considering how small the community of people who like to lift weights and partake in resistance training is.

exactly - 60% of the population are overweight or obese yet people piss and moan about the best training methods for the 10% that actually need high end coaching

drdeadlift

MightyMandarin wrote: »

There's dickheads everywhere pal. Go to any powerlifting, weightlifting or bodybuilding gym and you'll find some.

Just don't let them alter your general perception of the people who get involved in the sports; it doesn't really do anyone any good, considering how small the community of people who like to lift weights and partake in resistance training is.

I didnt label anyone a dickhead.

I agree with the rest,except im only going on what i have experienced.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

BB. strongman and crossfit are all dead. There is a better way. Small group training, support, strict rules, charasmatic leaders and safety. I had my first day last night, I was late and missed the start so I dont know what the first rule was....but Fightclub rules. Try it. Contact mailtotylerdurden@fc.com

Transform

Zavier Proud Gesture wrote: »

BB. strongman and crossfit are all dead. There is a better way. Small group training, support, strict rules, charasmatic leaders and safety. I had my first day last night, I was late and missed the start so I dont know what the first rule was....but Fightclub rules. Try it. Contact mailtotylerdurden@fc.com

now that REALLY made me laugh!!!!

on a side note you will see more people wanting to join groups and group training as many people have lost connection with others and to become part of something bigger than themselves.

Cuddlesworth

whippet wrote: »

Also .. the abomination that is 'kipping' ... what in the hell is that all about. Shredding your hands and holding out ripped palms like a badge of honour! torn hands are an injury not a sing of achievement

I watched a youtube video a while back of a small crowd in the US who decided to do a "competition", in which they had WOD like segments that included strict pull ups. They were very specific about the strict part as they didn't like the crossfit methodology. The comments afterwards were hilarious as what was and wasn't a "kip", when none of the contestants were really doing strict after the first few. I've been searching for it since but I watch a lot of youtube videos, since it was a good example of why crossfit kips.

Kipping is effectively a product of including body-weight movements into a competitive environment. And it doesn't really come from crossfit, its a natural progression to making the movement easier and it was taken from gymnastics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vhhkhB4S0E

If you say do 20 reps of pull ups, people will kip. So either waste your time, or embrace it. But it does make crossfit look stupid in videos and is a easy source for online bashing, adding to its bad reputation in the usual gym bro circles.

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Not defending what's going on in that video, but I reckon most people watching it didn't realise they're doing the axle clean and jerk, which never looks pretty anyway.

Still, those people look like they shouldn't be allowed anything beyond an empty regular barbell.

Yep, its more of a strong man workout. But its a very clear and obvious example of bad coaching in a crossfit environment. Most people in that video should never have been exposed to that exercise or weight. Its not appropriate to their skill or strength level. It was also a top ranked video for the search term for a long period.


Back to the OP's point, fail videos have always trended well on youtube and "Gym fails" was replaced with "Crossfit Fails" a few years back. As a brand or methodology that's a serious problem but in recent times that has trended back to gym fails..

How many crossfit gyms can you identify in the below videos. That you know are crossfit, not just strength and conditioning gyms, Olympic clubs or people just dicking around in normal gyms or at home. Or competitions that are sponsored by crossfit. Even most Irish competitions are not actual crossfit events and are run by whoever wants to run them and are not restricted to crossfit only branded gyms entering.

I like this one the best, its the OC throwdown. This is from a competition in the US done by a crowd that have nothing to do with crossfit(but aimed towards them) and is pretty much hated by most of the gyms in the US at this point. A games competitor was paralysed with their stupid over the top WODs and another person broke their back. And yet when this event was reported on in the media and by fitness bloggers, it was a crossfit event in which this happened.

There is also(at this point) a pretty strong case that the crossfit band was deliberately damaged through the release of "the Devor study" in 2013. The report claimed that crossfit had a higher rate of injury then other branded sports, which was parroted heavily by the media and bloggers. I read the report, its methodology seemed pretty circumspect. The long and short of it is that crossfit claimed the report was fabricated so that the organisation would not be considered for valuable military fitness contracts over the incumbent NSCA. They sued afterwards and it looks like they are going to win, there seems to be a lot of evidence against the writers of the report and the NSCA to validate crossfits claims. I'd be interested to see what that might cost in the end for the NSCA.


All of this over the years causes the image to suffer. When the conversation crops up in the pub, the topic will tend to be based around a perception rather then a specific and well thought out argument with points and counter points. And most of that perception comes from fragments of news reports, headlines and half watched videos online. Plus the fact that crossfitters never shut up about crossfit.

There have been good points though, its brought a new level of awareness back to gymnastics and Olympic lifting, regardless of them seeming to hate it. I think its the main cause for the resurgence of proper free weights coming back into Irish gyms and the opening of large scale strength and conditioning gyms as well. Its been a large part of the mobility movement, which is pretty important for us as a whole.

Alf Veedersane

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

A games competitor was paralysed with their stupid over the top WODs and another person broke their back. And yet when this event was reported on in the media and by fitness bloggers, it was a crossfit event in which this happened.

The incident where the chap was paralysed was more to do with someone being braindead enough to pile plates behind him, bar-length apart so that when he fell back doing a snatch, the bar bounced back under him as he fell.

As bad as the competition may have been, it wasn't responsible for the injury.

Cuddlesworth

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The incident where the chap was paralysed was more to do with someone being braindead enough to pile plates behind him, bar-length apart so that when he fell back doing a snatch, the bar bounced back under him as he fell.

As bad as the competition may have been, it wasn't responsible for the injury.

I'd blame that on the event organisers, every competitor is at the back of the platform and has weights stacked directly behind them. Which is a huge no-no to anybody who has done Olympic weightlifting.