Active Shooter on campus. Run Hide Fight.

BoatMad

And the use of cars as getaway vehicles is similarly no reason to ban them. Why not reverse the argument, though? The occasional murder is no reason to ban guns which have positive uses.

correct and most jurisdiction allow a (wide) range of firearms for sporting and " fun" uses , self defense not being one of them. I am not in any way in favour of zero firearms

BoatMad

FortySeven wrote: »

The USA has a much higher rate of murder and rape than the UK per capita.

Those guns to defend yourself from rape are also used to perform rape. Same for murder.

Guns appear to make rape and murder more likely. Fancy that.

rape is a terrible statistic as by far the majority of races cases go unreported , in 2014m the UK had approx 0.13 convicted rapes per 1000 population while the US had .25 per 1000, approx twice. Interesting the US rape rape has fallen from 2.5 per 1000 in 1973 , given that guns have always been around in the US, its very hard to attribute any impact on gun laws and rape in the US

its also however true that in the US 25% of rape cases involved the use of a gun ,whereas this is virtually non existent in the UK

BoatMad

No argument there. Though if you happen to have a sporting firearm handy when you need it, there's no problems with using it because the laws on self defense do not specify that any particular type of weapon may not be used. Which again brings us back to what is in effect a form of hypocrisy. If it can be used, legally, for a purpose, why should it not be made legally available for that purpose, if it is the best thing for the job? You can, of course, continue to make the argument about society's safety as a whole, but that does not deny the individual's right to his own safety, and that a (sub?)conscious balancing is being conducted.

The issue is premeditated lethal defense, thats the distinction, in effect in the heat of the moment you can deploy lethal force, believing that you are in danger ( in you house not in the street) but the law does not allow you to pre-purchase a lethal weapon in the form of a gun , in advance off any need to use it or any other lethal use of force

yes there is a somewhat " angels on a pin " distinction , but its the fundamental difference between the US and other jurisdictions , it worth noting that the use of firearms in personal defense was only affirmed by SCOTUS relatively recently in the US.

We are now in a circular argument , those who say gun proliferation leads to the requirements for even further gun proliferation , rathe like an arms race and those that say it does not . The original ideals of the founding fathers have in my view been entirely corrupted by SCOTUS, but then thats just my view !

As we are where we are, the complete arming of all aspects of US civil society is now required

old_aussie

Adam Schiff, said intelligence agencies were assisting in the investigation.
"It bears all of the hallmarks of a terror attack carried out by someone who may have been self-radicalised," Schiff said in a statement.

Craig Stone, chief of the Ohio State University police said Monday afternoon that it wasn't clear what motivated the attack but he said it was clear that "this was done on purpose" and that authorities couldn't rule out the possibility of terrorism.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/ohio-state-university-active-shooter-reported-on-us-campus-20161128-gszhsi.html


Self radicalised muslim, didn't feel safe praying at the university, so he decided to do a terrorist act and kill the non believers. muslims need to pray(for what I don't know) 5 times a day.

Donald Trump will feed on this, hopefully.

Oodoov

The Wolverine wrote: »

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-dead-after-ohio-state-university-car-knife-attack-n689076

Attacker is named as Abdul Razak Ali Artan, 18, a legal US resident originally from Somalia.

The news is saying from what appears to be his Facebook page he posted



Apparently he hit a few with a car then got out and started slashing with a butcher's knife and was shot by a police officer.

11 injured but none are life threatening thankfully.

Thankfully this guy sounds like the dumbest terrorist ever.

Widdershins

He made threats beforehand.Apparently, this is his Twatter

https://sjpuncovered.com/ohio-state-university-student-threatens-violence-as-bds-vote-looms/

HellSquirrel

Oodoov wrote: »

Thankfully this guy sounds like the dumbest terrorist ever.

Idiot teenager. Thank heavens he didn't actually kill anyone. And ..sorry for twisting this, but I am actually -relieved- that he didn't have a gun. He was able to do a lot less damage than he might have been otherwise. As is, at least none of his victims lost their lives.

Butters1979

Widdershins wrote: »

He made threats beforehand.Apparently, this is his Twatter

https://sjpuncovered.com/ohio-state-university-student-threatens-violence-as-bds-vote-looms/

So apparently it was because of this 'Boycott, Divest and Sanction' vote about to happen in the university. Anyone know more about what that is? It's not really explained there.

Edit: The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law.

So basically he decided if people were not going to vote to support this he was going to attack innocent students. This is the kind of 'do as we want or I'll attack you' attitude of certain groups that fostered support for Trump and his immigration policies.

Widdershins

Butters1979 wrote: »

So apparently it was because of this 'Boycott, Divest and Sanction' vote about to happen in the university. Anyone know more about what that is? It's not really explained there.

Edit: The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law.

So basically he decided if people were not going to vote to support this he was going to attack innocent students. This is the kind of 'do as we want' or I'll attack you attitude of certain groups that fostered support for Trump and his immigration policies.

It wasn't passed, by the way.
He made a comment about Trump voters and anyone who says ''all lives matter'' in response to any mention of BLM.

Butters1979

He claimed he didn't feel safe praying in the open because the way the media portrays Muslims. Then he goes and does this.

Somali immigrant. And people are surprised with Trumps popularity.

Widdershins

Butters1979 wrote: »

He claimed he didn't feel safe praying in the open because the way the media portrays Muslims. Then he goes and does this.

Somali immigrant. And people are surprised with Trumps popularity.

It's not the public praying the media highlight (that I'm aware of) but the inclination to use force in response to a perceived slight. E.G Charlie Hebdo.
He hasn't exactly done himself a favour.

Butters1979

Apparently the police officer was on location due to a reporter gas leak. Otherwise it could have been much worse. That was extremely fortunate.

Galway_Old_Man

Oodoov wrote: »

Thankfully this guy sounds like the dumbest terrorist ever.

I think that award goes to the perpetrators of the 2007 Glasgow airport attack. Filled up a jeep with canisters of petrol, drove themselves into a bollard and set themselves on fire.

silverharp

Galway_Old_Man wrote: »

I think that award goes to the perpetrators of the 2007 Glasgow airport attack. Filled up a jeep with canisters of petrol, drove themselves into a bollard and set themselves on fire.

and only in Glasgow would the locals proceed to beat the sh1t out of someone that was on fire

The Draugan

Dr Jakub wrote: »

Liberal media devastated that this was a Somalian and not a racist white male. No need for soul searching for gun control or race relations this time.

My thoughts exactly , amazing how quickly this dropped out of the media once the gunman was identified as Muslim immigrant. Can't be blamed on white people, racists or Trump so better move along nothing to see here , Islam is a religion peace blah blah blah

Galway_Old_Man

Dr Jakub wrote: »

Liberal media devastated that this was a Somalian and not a racist white male. No need for soul searching for gun control or race relations this time.

The Draugan wrote: »

My thoughts exactly , amazing how quickly this dropped out of the media once the gunman was identified as Muslim immigrant. Can't be blamed on white people, racists or Trump so better move along nothing to see here , Islam is a religion peace blah blah blah

He had no gun lads. Just a car and knife. Carry on.

Oodoov

Liberal media seems to be running with the "He was scared to pray in college because he was Muslim" line. It's all white peoples fault don't ya know.

Jelle1880

Oodoov wrote: »

Liberal media seems to be running with the "He was scared to pray in college because he was Muslim" line. It's all white peoples fault don't ya know.

That's not the 'liberal media' running with an excuse, they're literally his own words.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/28/attack-with-butcher-knife-and-car-injures-several-at-ohio-state-university.html

So while he was obviously nuts for carrying out that attack it has nothing to do with 'liberal media' (whatever the **** that may be).

The Draugan wrote: »

My thoughts exactly , amazing how quickly this dropped out of the media once the gunman was identified as Muslim immigrant. Can't be blamed on white people, racists or Trump so better move along nothing to see here , Islam is a religion peace blah blah blah

It's still in the news, you just need to look at it instead of wallowing into a 'omg liberal media hiding the truth from us' mentality.

HellSquirrel

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That's not the 'liberal media' running with an excuse, they're literally his own words.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/28/attack-with-butcher-knife-and-car-injures-several-at-ohio-state-university.html

So while he was obviously nuts for carrying out that attack it has nothing to do with 'liberal media' (whatever the **** that may be).



It's still in the news, you just need to look at it instead of wallowing into a 'omg liberal media hiding the truth from us' mentality.

Hngh. Since when do facts matter anyway. >.>

jmayo

Gatling wrote: »

Every class room has simple items that could easily be used to defend yourself

Maybe a chemistry lab where you could knock up a molotov of some sort or a kitchen where they are knives, cooking oils and cleaning products, but most lecture halls or classrooms have shag all unless you fancy firing chairs at attacker with gun.
Either way surprise is the only way of getting attack in.

Manic Moran wrote: »

Sortof. The stats also show that those who defend themselves with a firearm are less likely to suffer injury than those who use another other form of defense. So, in other words, you are more likely to be in a position that you need a gun in the first place in the US, but if you have one, you're better off for it when you need it.

It comes back to the individual's responsibility to himself vs the State's responsibility to society at large. The State cannot be responsible for the safety of the individual, and it comes down to a moral choice by society as to which is more important. We've decided to go more with the concept of self-sufficiency, though obviously it's not universal: At this time, carrying a firearm is illegal on OSU, for example.

Reading that makes the country sound more like an African country than a Western nation.

The Wolverine wrote: »

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-dead-after-ohio-state-university-car-knife-attack-n689076

Attacker is named as Abdul Razak Ali Artan, 18, a legal US resident originally from Somalia.

The news is saying from what appears to be his Facebook page he posted

Apparently he hit a few with a car then got out and started slashing with a butcher's knife and was shot by a police officer.

11 injured but none are life threatening thankfully.

So another mentally ill young fellow ehhh :rolleyes:

TeaBagMania

im sure obumbo will be along shortly to defend his muslim brothers. " if I had a son"

Subcomandante Marcos

Gatling wrote: »

That's the whole idea ,
Id rather fight than sit there and wait to be executed ,
But there could be off duty law enforcement officers there or people with concealed carry permits for forearms on the campus

I've read some nonsense on boards, but this is exceptional.

If there's an active shooter I don't care if I have bazooka, I'm running if I can. Hiding if I can't and fighting is the absolute last option.

there were several out of uniform police on site during the Orlando night club shooting, none of them were able to take down the shooter despite training.


Besides, carrying a gun on campus in Ohio is illegal, regardless of what permits you have.

Subcomandante Marcos

DivingDuck wrote: »

"Run Hide Fight" is an abbreviation of the full instructions:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyXIlL7UsAI-oUC.jpg

I believe the full thing is covered in intro/safety classes on arrival.

I did part of a post grad in a university in the American mid-west about a decade ago and this mirrors the safety talk campus police gave us during our orientation.

JustAThought

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I did part of a post grad in a university in the American mid-west about a decade ago and this mirrors the safety talk campus police gave us during our orientation.[/quote

Had I just seen this (not onnthe thread) I would have thought it was a pisstake. Can't believe they actually have this as a standArd security viseo in schiols & colleges. What have 'we' become.

PopePalpatine

TeaBagMania wrote: »

im sure obumbo will be along shortly to defend his muslim brothers. " if I had a son"

Who's Obumbo?

Jelle1880

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Who's Obumbo?

The Kenyan Muslim president of the US.

edit: Without a birth certificate, almost forgot to add that.

Galway_Old_Man

JustAThought wrote: »

Had I just seen this (not onnthe thread) I would have thought it was a pisstake. Can't believe they actually have this as a standArd security viseo in schiols & colleges. What have 'we' become.

I know lads in my field working in the US. They get "active shooter" drills/training (this is a regular ol' desk job) along with earthquake and tornado drills. All we get is a fire alarm. Not bad when you think about it

ceadaoin.

As well as fire drills, my daughters preschool class practice what to do in the event of a classroom lockdown. Lights off, Staying quiet and hiding if needed. They don't tell them why they might need to do that but it's fairly obvious. On the one hand I'm glad they are somewhat prepared for the worst, but on the other hand :eek:

PopePalpatine

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The Kenyan Muslim president of the US.

edit: Without a birth certificate, almost forgot to add that.

Ah right, I forgot about that dog whistle conspiracy theory. I had much more important things to keep track of.

RobertKK

Law enforcement people are saying the attacker was likely inspired by ISIS propaganda.