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Israeli wildfires, possible arson attacks

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24

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    #32
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Not for the want of trying, J.T

    Israel is going nowhere. Israel is the only country in the region with nukes, it's the strongest military power in the region, it's the strongest economic power in the region.

    Israel has the guarantee that the US will obliterate any other state that attacks it, it has the US shielding it from every single UNSC resolution. Israel has peace deals with Egypt and Jordan and detentes with Turkey, and Saudi Arabia.

    Stop trying to portray it as some sort of damsel in distress. Israel is the safest place to live in the Middle East (unless you're Palestinian) and the least likely to be invaded by another state.


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    #33
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Israel is going nowhere. Israel is the only country in the region with nukes, it's the strongest military power in the region, it's the strongest economic power in the region.

    Israel has the guarantee that the US will obliterate any other state that attacks it, it has the US shielding it from every single UNSC resolution. Israel has peace deals with Egypt and Jordan and detentes with Turkey, and Saudi Arabia.

    Stop trying to portray it as some sort of damsel in distress. Israel is the safest place to live in the Middle East (unless you're Palestinian) and the least likely to be invaded by another state.

    That's ok then.

    I suppose anything goes when you see it that way. At least you have helped me to understand your viewpoint.


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    #34
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Widdershins wrote: »
    At least you have helped me to understand your viewpoint.

    It's an observation based on facts rather than a viewpoint. Feel free to counter any of the observations I made.


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    #35
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    It's an observation based on facts rather than a viewpoint. Feel free to counter any of the observations I made.

    I refer you to my previous comment about a reluctance to enter into a tit for tat. There have been numerous threads on Israeli-Palestine relations and policies here on Boards. I made this one in relation to the fires, not to criticise or defend their government's politics.
    Your observations make no difference to the fact that there's a major situation with fires burning across the country.

    Anyway, they don't need countering. Not only irrelevant to the topic, none of the above are applicable to suicide bombings, arson, stabbings, vehicular murders or conflict on Israel's back door. It is not me painting them as a damsel in distress, but you who is attempting to paint them as deserving of whatever they get. It is a shame is that there is any need for defense at all when it should be possible for a compromise, but it looks like that's never going to happen. What you're missing is not only the human suffering you don't care about when it's Israelis, despite the fact that the iron dome can't prevent this kind of thing, but that if it is arson, along with the other attacks, it's all contributing to the delay in finding a compromise. I'd have thought that is what anyone would want to see.

    Clearly no amount of attacks would be sufficiently 'interesting' to divert some people from the urge to lay into the Israelis.


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    #36
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Widdershins wrote: »
    It is a shame is that there is any need for defense at all when it should be possible for a compromise, but it looks like that's never going to happen.

    Oh I agree, the two state solution is dead. The Israelis traded peace for occupation, at the expense of the Palestinians, a long time ago.
    What you're missing is not only the human suffering you don't care about when it's Israelis

    Stop adopting positions for me. I think Israel and Ireland had a lot in common in years past and will have a lot in common in future.
    the delay in finding a compromise. I'd have thought that is what anyone would want to see.

    Israel doesn't want compromise - it wants the West Bank and it'll have it.
    Clearly no amount of attacks would be sufficiently 'interesting' to divert some people from the urge to lay into the Israelis.

    There you go again trying to portray the Israelis as the 'damsels in distress'. Israel is the nuke armed, most powerful, most protected, least likely to be invaded, and destroyed, state in the Middle East.


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    #37
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Oh I agree, the two state solution is dead. The Israelis traded peace for occupation, at the expense of the Palestinians, a long time ago.



    Stop adopting positions for me. I think Israel and Ireland had a lot in common in years past and will have a lot in common in future.



    Israel doesn't want compromise - it wants the West Bank and it'll have it.



    There you go again trying to portray the Israelis as the 'damsels in distress'. Israel is the nuke armed, most powerful, most protected, least likely to be invaded, and destroyed, state in the Middle East.


    I have avoided pinning blame on either side. I believe it's the decent thing to do especially under the circumstances.

    Clearly you can't resist so knock yourself out. I'm not engaging in this.

    Maybe you could open a thread on Israel and Palestine, though.


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    #38
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Maybe you could open a thread on Israel and Palestine, though.

    Haha! I have never once started a thread about Israel/Palestine on boards.ie.

    You have. What? You thought that the terrorist fires were set by aliens or elves or something? Yeah, cool story.


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    #39
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Haha! I have never once started a thread about Israel/Palestine on boards.ie.

    You have. What? You thought that the terrorist fires were set by aliens or elves or something? Yeah, cool story.

    I think they're arson attacks. I'm talking about the possible arson attacks. Wildfires natural or man made seem to be a worthwhile talking point to me.You're talking about who you feel is at fault for the entire conflict, and criticising one side-the one with the fires currently raging.

    It might be time you opened one.


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    #40
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Widdershins wrote: »
    I think they're arson attacks.

    Stop lying. You are presenting a specific sequence of events here:
    Following on from intifadas electronic, boulder-based and stabby/vehicular homicide, Israel is now dealing with deliberately set fires

    Muslims/Arabs, Muslims/Arabs and now arson.

    Get a job as a pro-Israel hack instead of thinking you can fool the readers of boards.ie with your pro-Israel PR would be my advice .


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    #41
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Stop lying. You are presenting a specific sequence of events here:



    Muslims/Arabs, Muslims/Arabs and now arson.

    Get a job as a pro-Israel hack instead of thinking you can fool the readers of boards.ie with your pro-Israel PR would be my advice .

    I'm not sure what you are confused about. *i* think..or suspect..they were set by arsonist/s and probably the same motives as the kind of attacks listed. I didn't at any point say anything different.

    Not everyone is aware that Israel experiences those other kinds of attacks. No surprise when people like you try to suppress any mention of it.
    I have as much right to talk about them as people have a right to talk about anything else that happens in Israel or Palestine. They are relevant to what has now happened. If it turns out that the fires weren't deliberately started, it at least helps people to understand why Israelis suspect arson. Why should you control what people are, and aren't allowed to mention.
    That is not ''fooling'' anyone. The reality for the Israeli people is as relevant as that of the Palestinians.
    And it's Israelis, not Israel, I am thinking of here. People. Not governments.

    And I did not say ''Muslims/Arabs, Muslims/Arabs'' . .


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    #42
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Widdershins wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you are confused about.

    I'm not in the slightest bit confused.
    Widdershins

    Following on from intifadas electronic, boulder-based and stabby/vehicular homicide, Israel is now dealing with deliberately set fires

    'Following on' (from the Arabs/Muslims attacking Israelis) is attempting to create a sequence without evidence.

    Do you really think the readers of the thread are so stupid they can't see what you're doing?


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    #43
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    I'm not in the slightest bit confused.



    'Following on' (from the Arabs/Muslims attacking Israelis) is attempting to create a sequence without evidence.

    Do you really think the readers of the thread are so stupid they can't see what you're doing?

    It appears you are! You can't see that the point was, they've had a lot of traumas of their own, and now this. Their country is on fire.

    Sorry if the nationality of the perpetrators of the other attacks is uncomfortable for you! I was thinking of the suffering not the attackers when I posted.


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    #44
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    What random idiots in Israeli government claim is happening:

    Palestinian's are lighting fires in the north of Israeli on purpose to murder people.




    What Israeli police, fire services and intelligence say is happening:

    No damned clue, there's not proof that anyone lit any of the fires deliberately, but arson not yet ruled out.


    What is actually happening:

    In the years after 1948 Israeli governments planted fast pine forests in the north of Israel to hide the remains of Palestinian villages which were destroyed by Israeli terrorists during the first wave of settler migration to the North and ethnic cleansing of the native population.

    While driving the locals off their lands and into Syria, Lebanon, The West Bank and Gaza, Israeli militia's demolished homes, razed entire villages and destroyed agricultural lands.

    In the following few decades the newly establish state of Israeli planted non-native, very combustible pine forests, in a ****ing an area which is prone to draught, gets very hot and already had a history of wile bush fires. Pine is fast growing and high yield. It's also native to the north for a damned reason.


    These fires happen every few years. Every time the government claims arson, every time there's no evidence, and every time it's during a dry year.

    As usual, this will be used as an excuse to launch incursions into Gaza, bombardments of southern Lebanon or wholesale rounding up of civilians in the west bank for administrative detention.


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    #45
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    What random idiots in Israeli government claim is happening:

    Palestinian's are lighting fires in the north of Israeli on purpose to murder people.




    What Israeli police, fire services and intelligence say is happening:

    No damned clue, there's not proof that anyone lit any of the fires deliberately, but arson not yet ruled out.


    What is actually happening:

    In the years after 1948 Israeli governments planted fast pine forests in the north of Israel to hide the remains of Palestinian villages which were destroyed by Israeli terrorists during the first wave of settler migration to the North and ethnic cleansing of the native population.

    While driving the locals off their lands and into Syria, Lebanon, The West Bank and Gaza, Israeli militia's demolished homes, razed entire villages and destroyed agricultural lands.

    In the following few decades the newly establish state of Israeli planted non-native, very combustible pine forests, in a ****ing an area which is prone to draught, gets very hot and already had a history of wile bush fires. Pine is fast growing and high yield. It's also native to the north for a damned reason.


    These fires happen every few years. Every time the government claims arson, every time there's no evidence, and every time it's during a dry year.

    As usual, this will be used as an excuse to launch incursions into Gaza, bombardments of southern Lebanon or wholesale rounding up of civilians in the west bank for administrative detention.


    The Jews and their obsession with trees. IIRC, The climatologists have said the fires weren't weather related.
    You are almost quoting, verbatim, a woman who had known links to jihadist groups.
    As yet it is not known whether the fires were deliberately started. If so it won't be the first time. I hope your crystal ball is wrong.


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    #46
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,170 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I'll not lie, but see when anything about Israel or Palestine comes on the radio, or TV, or internet any more, I seriously couldn't care any less.

    It is so dull now. Most of the world is moving on, let them 2 slip back into the past.


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    #47
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    getzls wrote: »
    Islamic countries surrounding them want to destroy them.

    No they don't. Israel has peace deals with Jordan and Egypt for decades. When was the last time Lebanon or Syria initiated a conflict against Israel?

    The only group calling for the destruction of Israel are Hamas who exist in Israel's enormous open air prison camp called Gaza.
    These Countries perfect man calls for the total slaughter of Jews.
    If Israel lay down their weapons Egypt and Jordan would quite happily join in the killing.
    Think about it.
    Israel lays down their arms and they get killed.
    The Palestinians lay down their arms they get peace.


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    #48
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    getzls wrote: »
    These Countries perfect man calls for the total slaughter of Jews.
    If Israel lay down their weapons Egypt and Jordan would quite happily join in the killing.
    Think about it.
    Israel lays down their arms and they get killed.
    The Palestinians lay down their arms they get peace.



    Have there been any deaths as s consequence of these fires?


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    #49
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    JustAThought wrote: »
    getzls wrote: »
    These Countries perfect man calls for the total slaughter of Jews.
    If Israel lay down their weapons Egypt and Jordan would quite happily join in the killing.
    Think about it.
    Israel lays down their arms and they get killed.
    The Palestinians lay down their arms they get peace.



    Have there been any deaths as s consequence of these fires?
    Don't know.
    Does Google not work for you?


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    #50
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Have there been any deaths as s consequence of these fires?

    Probably will be when Israeli forces take their anger out on Palestinian civilians


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    #51
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,156 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    getzls wrote: »
    These Countries perfect man calls for the total slaughter of Jews.
    If Israel lay down their weapons Egypt and Jordan would quite happily join in the killing.
    Think about it.
    Israel lays down their arms and they get killed.
    The Palestinians lay down their arms they get peace.

    They get shafted. The state of Israel has broken every single agreement they've ever made with the Palestinians.

    I have Israeli friends and they honestly don't think the state will last their lifetimes. It can't go on the way it's been going for the last 50 years.


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    #52
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Grayson wrote: »
    They get shafted. The state of Israel has broken every single agreement they've ever made with the Palestinians.

    I have Israeli friends and they honestly don't think the state will last their lifetimes. It can't go on the way it's been going for the last 50 years.

    I hope more people will educate themselves on this instead of taking what is posted on forums as truth. I will refrain from getting into it. I don't know why others can't have the decency to do that. If this were a thread about Palestinian problems I would never jump in and start excoriating Hamas or the region. It's just not on. No wonder people are jaded from hearing anything israel or palestine. even a thread about wildfires inevitably descends into criticism and vile predictions.

    My Israeli friends agree that things can't keep going the way they have been going!


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    #53
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I'll not lie, but see when anything about Israel or Palestine comes on the radio, or TV, or internet any more, I seriously couldn't care any less.

    It is so dull now. Most of the world is moving on, let them 2 slip back into the past.

    I can understand that.


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    #54
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Have there been any deaths as s consequence of these fires?

    I don't think so, so far, but there have been mass evacuations and some injuries.


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    #55
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Widdershins wrote: »
    I'm inclined to agree with Julie Lenarz
    ''#Israelburning soars to the third most popular hashtag worldwide - the perpetual, fanatical, irrational hatred towards Israel is repulsive.''
    Maybe you should have a look at some of those tweets with the #Israelburning hashtag. Because they're not all the racist attacks you seem to be claiming they are. There's obviously going to be some, because scum thrive on the internet, but there's a lot of positive tweets about it.

    Sure there's even tweets that show Palestinian and Israeli firefighters working and posing together.


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    #56
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    humanji wrote: »
    Maybe you should have a look at some of those tweets with the #Israelburning hashtag. Because they're not the racist attacks you seem to be claiming they are.

    Sure there's even tweets that show Palestinian and Israeli firefighters working and posing together.

    I have seen tweets with that hashtag celebrating and hoping the israeli babies die among many other horrible sentiments. They absolutely are racist attacks in those tweets. I am happy that there are tweets of support and solidarity too.

    The solidarity shown by some palestinians is admirable, and I am really gladdened to see it.


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    #57
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    Grayson wrote: »
    getzls wrote: »
    These Countries perfect man calls for the total slaughter of Jews.
    If Israel lay down their weapons Egypt and Jordan would quite happily join in the killing.
    Think about it.
    Israel lays down their arms and they get killed.
    The Palestinians lay down their arms they get peace.

    They get shafted. The state of Israel has broken every single agreement they've ever made with the .
    Does that include the onward where Israel give them supplies and cement to build houses?

    Instead they use it to build tunnels to attack Israel.
    Hardly surprising Israel reacts to their thearts of genocide.


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    #58
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    There's video footage of arsonists, although they've not blamed all of the fires on arson. The latest regarding evacuations, et. cetera, here:

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-on-fire-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont/


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    #59
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    They are really a paranoid country

    Yes, anyone would think they were surrounded by enemies or something


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    #60
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    wow boards has some really rabid messed up people on it doesn't it !!


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    #61
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    You're all very quick to jump to the conclusion that if the fires are acts of terror then the perps must be Muslims.

    Israeli settlers regularly attack and burn Arab olive groves.

    There could be other causes too, like negligence from farmers, campers etc. These are a regular occurrence in the Middle East (I've spent a lot of time in Israel & Lebanon).

    Stupid suggestions like Israel using this as an excuse to steal more Palestinian lands, do people who utter that stupidity actually believe that?.

    Anyway it could very well be terror, from settlers burning Arab olive groves too.


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