Israeli wildfires, possible arson attacks

Widdershins

Seems to have gone virtually unreported.

Following on from intifadas electronic, boulder-based and stabby/vehicular homicide (like Nice), Israel is now dealing with deliberately set fires. From friends in Israel I am reading reports of up to 200. They ask why their country is burning.

''Israel’s police chief, Roni Alsheich, told reporters that arsonists were suspected of setting some of the fires for political reasons. “It’s safe to assume that whoever is setting the fires isn’t doing it only out of pyromania,” he said. “If it is arson, it is politically motivated.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/24/russia-turkey-cyprus-send-firefighting-planes-to-israel?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Mr. Incognito

They are really a paranoid country

Grayson

You forgot to quote this bit.

Despite claims by Israel’s security minister, Gilad Erdan, that 50% of the fires were “apparently arson”, the Israel police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said investigators had not yet been able to determine whether any of the dozens of fires countrywide had been set deliberately.

The_Valeyard

They will just use it as an excuse to steal more Palestinian land.

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

You forgot to quote this bit.

I chose to quote one bit, obviously the entire thing is there to read.

We don't officially know yet-that is why I said ''possible arson'' in the thread title.

Paranoid country..what a strange thing to say considering their experience with suicide bombings and the rest, and the fact that there is celebration from some people on Twitter with the hashtag Israel is Burning.

Personally sad to see it happen but no accounting for bad minded folks.

Gatling

For some reason I can imagine Israeli military forces going into the gaza strip with flame throwers

Widdershins

The_Valeyard wrote: »

They will just use it as an excuse to steal more Palestinian land.

I would hope further conflict does not ensue. By the way they are human beings living in Israel too.

Widdershins

I'm inclined to agree with Julie Lenarz
''#Israelburning soars to the third most popular hashtag worldwide - the perpetual, fanatical, irrational hatred towards Israel is repulsive.''

The_Valeyard

Widdershins wrote: »

I would hope further conflict does not ensue. By the way they are human beings living in Israel too.

Unfortunately the behaviour and attitude of their government and military makes that easy to forget from time to time.

buried

"Can't be Global warming, that's a Chinese myth, it must be terrorism. Release the hounds"

The_Valeyard

buried wrote: »

"Can't be Global warming, that's a Chinese myth, it must be terrorism. Release the hounds"

Fire breathing hounds?

MRnotlob606

Do the Israelis like ever fúck off?

Widdershins

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Unfortunately the behaviour and attitude of their government and military makes that easy to forget from time to time.

You are, of course, fully entitled to your opinion.
I'm just wondering would you feel the same about any other nation of people elsewhere whose government you perceive to have behaved unjustly in times of conflict?

Widdershins

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Do the Israelis like ever fúck off?

I think that was the general idea of Israel in the first place. Not far enough for you eh.

foggy_lad

I was thinking the whole middle east was gone up in a fireball, no such luck.

The_Valeyard

Widdershins wrote: »

You are, of course, fully entitled to your opinion.
I'm just wondering would you feel the same about any other nation of people elsewhere whose government you perceive to have behaved unjustly in times of conflict?

Oh I do. Id feel the same way about the Syrian government, US action in Iraq war, Russia with Ukraine, Myanmar and its ethnic cleansing.

Widdershins

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Oh I do. Id feel the same way about the Syrian government, US action in Iraq war, Russia with Ukraine, Myanmar and its ethnic cleansing.

Would your response and comments be different were it Myanmar in this piece of news?

Without wanting to get into a discussion about the comparison.

Junkyard Tom

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm just wondering would you feel the same about any other nation of people elsewhere whose government you perceive to have behaved unjustly in times of conflict?

Other countries with appalling human rights records are universally condemned for thier actions. Israel? Not so much.

buried

Widdershins wrote: »

Would your response and comments be different were it Myanmar in this piece of news?

Without wanting to get into a discussion about the comparison.

Most other countries don't blame naturally occurring wildfires in dry, high temperature and high wind weather areas as "acts of terror" though W

Widdershins

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Other countries with appalling human rights records are universally condemned for thier actions. Israel? Not so much.

I am more interested in how the poster would feel were it another country esp. one whose government they don't agree with.

You will understand if I refrain from tearing into Israel in a tit for tat under the circumstances but everyone else can of course feel free to work way.

Widdershins

buried wrote: »

Most other countries don't blame naturally occurring wildfires in dry, high temperature and high wind weather areas as "acts of terror" though W

They are accustomed to acts of terror and seem not to have come to that conclusion fully yet, or on a mere whim. We will have to wait and see what the conclusion is.

The_Valeyard

Widdershins wrote: »

I am more interested in how the poster would feel were it another country esp. one whose government they don't agree with.

You will understand if I refrain from tearing into Israel in a tit for tat under the circumstances but everyone else can of course feel free to work way.

You seem hung up on that. Why would my feelings change?

Widdershins

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Other countries with appalling human rights records are universally condemned for thier actions. Israel? Not so much.

I'll just say though I think you're overlooking the likes of the BDS movement which gained fairly strong traction here and only applies to Israel.

Widdershins

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You seem hung up on that. Why would my feelings change?

I wondered whether you would have more concern/less 'epicaricacy' about it if it wasn't Israel burning.

The_Valeyard

Widdershins wrote: »

I wondered whether you would have more concern/less 'epicaricacy' about it if it wasn't Israel burning.

probably still hovering around the same really.

getzls

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

They are really a paranoid country

Not really considering the Islamic countries surrounding them want to destroy them.
Fire Jihad.

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

I chose to quote one bit, obviously the entire thing is there to read.

We don't officially know yet-that is why I said ''possible arson'' in the thread title.

Paranoid country..what a strange thing to say considering their experience with suicide bombings and the rest, and the fact that there is celebration from some people on Twitter with the hashtag Israel is Burning.

Personally sad to see it happen but no accounting for bad minded folks.

You can't say it's possibly arson without including the fact that there's no evidence for arson.

That article is weird. In every other country where arson is committed it's generally committed by citizens. In Israel there's no evidence to suggest arson but they automatically think it's non jews doing committing arson.

Dyr

Sure them lads are mad for burning bushes

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

You can't say it's possibly arson without including the fact that there's no evidence for arson.

That article is weird. In every other country where arson is committed it's generally committed by citizens. In Israel there's no evidence to suggest arson but they automatically think it's non jews doing committing arson.

It's suspected by some including the police chief. Arrests have already been made. I don't think I've ever seen the police lay out their reasons for suspecting something early in an investigation like this. I assume something was witnessed.

I'm not sure that they automatically think it is non jews doing the arson but the notion that it could be a nationalist arsonist does make some sense given the current tensions, and it would seem to me that the widespread celebration does nothing to diminish the plausibility.

I'm not sure why the phrasing of the article is of greater concern either to be honest.

Also, I don't think it says that a non citizen is suspected. I might have missed something.

Junkyard Tom

getzls wrote: »

Islamic countries surrounding them want to destroy them.

No they don't. Israel has peace deals with Jordan and Egypt for decades. When was the last time Lebanon or Syria initiated a conflict against Israel?

The only group calling for the destruction of Israel are Hamas who exist in Israel's enormous open air prison camp called Gaza.

Widdershins

Not for the want of trying, J.T

Junkyard Tom

Widdershins wrote: »

Not for the want of trying, J.T

Israel is going nowhere. Israel is the only country in the region with nukes, it's the strongest military power in the region, it's the strongest economic power in the region.

Israel has the guarantee that the US will obliterate any other state that attacks it, it has the US shielding it from every single UNSC resolution. Israel has peace deals with Egypt and Jordan and detentes with Turkey, and Saudi Arabia.

Stop trying to portray it as some sort of damsel in distress. Israel is the safest place to live in the Middle East (unless you're Palestinian) and the least likely to be invaded by another state.

Widdershins

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Israel is going nowhere. Israel is the only country in the region with nukes, it's the strongest military power in the region, it's the strongest economic power in the region.

Israel has the guarantee that the US will obliterate any other state that attacks it, it has the US shielding it from every single UNSC resolution. Israel has peace deals with Egypt and Jordan and detentes with Turkey, and Saudi Arabia.

Stop trying to portray it as some sort of damsel in distress. Israel is the safest place to live in the Middle East (unless you're Palestinian) and the least likely to be invaded by another state.

That's ok then.

I suppose anything goes when you see it that way. At least you have helped me to understand your viewpoint.

Junkyard Tom

Widdershins wrote: »

At least you have helped me to understand your viewpoint.

It's an observation based on facts rather than a viewpoint. Feel free to counter any of the observations I made.

Widdershins

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's an observation based on facts rather than a viewpoint. Feel free to counter any of the observations I made.

I refer you to my previous comment about a reluctance to enter into a tit for tat. There have been numerous threads on Israeli-Palestine relations and policies here on Boards. I made this one in relation to the fires, not to criticise or defend their government's politics.
Your observations make no difference to the fact that there's a major situation with fires burning across the country.

Anyway, they don't need countering. Not only irrelevant to the topic, none of the above are applicable to suicide bombings, arson, stabbings, vehicular murders or conflict on Israel's back door. It is not me painting them as a damsel in distress, but you who is attempting to paint them as deserving of whatever they get. It is a shame is that there is any need for defense at all when it should be possible for a compromise, but it looks like that's never going to happen. What you're missing is not only the human suffering you don't care about when it's Israelis, despite the fact that the iron dome can't prevent this kind of thing, but that if it is arson, along with the other attacks, it's all contributing to the delay in finding a compromise. I'd have thought that is what anyone would want to see.

Clearly no amount of attacks would be sufficiently 'interesting' to divert some people from the urge to lay into the Israelis.

Junkyard Tom

Widdershins wrote: »

It is a shame is that there is any need for defense at all when it should be possible for a compromise, but it looks like that's never going to happen.

Oh I agree, the two state solution is dead. The Israelis traded peace for occupation, at the expense of the Palestinians, a long time ago.

What you're missing is not only the human suffering you don't care about when it's Israelis

Stop adopting positions for me. I think Israel and Ireland had a lot in common in years past and will have a lot in common in future.

the delay in finding a compromise. I'd have thought that is what anyone would want to see.

Israel doesn't want compromise - it wants the West Bank and it'll have it.

Clearly no amount of attacks would be sufficiently 'interesting' to divert some people from the urge to lay into the Israelis.

There you go again trying to portray the Israelis as the 'damsels in distress'. Israel is the nuke armed, most powerful, most protected, least likely to be invaded, and destroyed, state in the Middle East.

Widdershins

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Oh I agree, the two state solution is dead. The Israelis traded peace for occupation, at the expense of the Palestinians, a long time ago.



Stop adopting positions for me. I think Israel and Ireland had a lot in common in years past and will have a lot in common in future.



Israel doesn't want compromise - it wants the West Bank and it'll have it.



There you go again trying to portray the Israelis as the 'damsels in distress'. Israel is the nuke armed, most powerful, most protected, least likely to be invaded, and destroyed, state in the Middle East.

I have avoided pinning blame on either side. I believe it's the decent thing to do especially under the circumstances.

Clearly you can't resist so knock yourself out. I'm not engaging in this.

Maybe you could open a thread on Israel and Palestine, though.

Junkyard Tom

Widdershins wrote: »

Maybe you could open a thread on Israel and Palestine, though.

Haha! I have never once started a thread about Israel/Palestine on boards.ie.

You have. What? You thought that the terrorist fires were set by aliens or elves or something? Yeah, cool story.

Widdershins

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Haha! I have never once started a thread about Israel/Palestine on boards.ie.

You have. What? You thought that the terrorist fires were set by aliens or elves or something? Yeah, cool story.

I think they're arson attacks. I'm talking about the possible arson attacks. Wildfires natural or man made seem to be a worthwhile talking point to me.You're talking about who you feel is at fault for the entire conflict, and criticising one side-the one with the fires currently raging.

It might be time you opened one.

Junkyard Tom

Widdershins wrote: »

I think they're arson attacks.

Stop lying. You are presenting a specific sequence of events here:

Following on from intifadas electronic, boulder-based and stabby/vehicular homicide, Israel is now dealing with deliberately set fires

Muslims/Arabs, Muslims/Arabs and now arson.

Get a job as a pro-Israel hack instead of thinking you can fool the readers of boards.ie with your pro-Israel PR would be my advice .

Widdershins

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Stop lying. You are presenting a specific sequence of events here:



Muslims/Arabs, Muslims/Arabs and now arson.

Get a job as a pro-Israel hack instead of thinking you can fool the readers of boards.ie with your pro-Israel PR would be my advice .

I'm not sure what you are confused about. *i* think..or suspect..they were set by arsonist/s and probably the same motives as the kind of attacks listed. I didn't at any point say anything different.

Not everyone is aware that Israel experiences those other kinds of attacks. No surprise when people like you try to suppress any mention of it.
I have as much right to talk about them as people have a right to talk about anything else that happens in Israel or Palestine. They are relevant to what has now happened. If it turns out that the fires weren't deliberately started, it at least helps people to understand why Israelis suspect arson. Why should you control what people are, and aren't allowed to mention.
That is not ''fooling'' anyone. The reality for the Israeli people is as relevant as that of the Palestinians.
And it's Israelis, not Israel, I am thinking of here. People. Not governments.

And I did not say ''Muslims/Arabs, Muslims/Arabs'' . .

Junkyard Tom

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm not sure what you are confused about.

I'm not in the slightest bit confused.

Widdershins

Following on from intifadas electronic, boulder-based and stabby/vehicular homicide, Israel is now dealing with deliberately set fires

'Following on' (from the Arabs/Muslims attacking Israelis) is attempting to create a sequence without evidence.

Do you really think the readers of the thread are so stupid they can't see what you're doing?

Widdershins

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'm not in the slightest bit confused.



'Following on' (from the Arabs/Muslims attacking Israelis) is attempting to create a sequence without evidence.

Do you really think the readers of the thread are so stupid they can't see what you're doing?

It appears you are! You can't see that the point was, they've had a lot of traumas of their own, and now this. Their country is on fire.

Sorry if the nationality of the perpetrators of the other attacks is uncomfortable for you! I was thinking of the suffering not the attackers when I posted.

Subcomandante Marcos

What random idiots in Israeli government claim is happening:

Palestinian's are lighting fires in the north of Israeli on purpose to murder people.




What Israeli police, fire services and intelligence say is happening:

No damned clue, there's not proof that anyone lit any of the fires deliberately, but arson not yet ruled out.


What is actually happening:

In the years after 1948 Israeli governments planted fast pine forests in the north of Israel to hide the remains of Palestinian villages which were destroyed by Israeli terrorists during the first wave of settler migration to the North and ethnic cleansing of the native population.

While driving the locals off their lands and into Syria, Lebanon, The West Bank and Gaza, Israeli militia's demolished homes, razed entire villages and destroyed agricultural lands.

In the following few decades the newly establish state of Israeli planted non-native, very combustible pine forests, in a ****ing an area which is prone to draught, gets very hot and already had a history of wile bush fires. Pine is fast growing and high yield. It's also native to the north for a damned reason.


These fires happen every few years. Every time the government claims arson, every time there's no evidence, and every time it's during a dry year.

As usual, this will be used as an excuse to launch incursions into Gaza, bombardments of southern Lebanon or wholesale rounding up of civilians in the west bank for administrative detention.

Widdershins

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

What random idiots in Israeli government claim is happening:

Palestinian's are lighting fires in the north of Israeli on purpose to murder people.




What Israeli police, fire services and intelligence say is happening:

No damned clue, there's not proof that anyone lit any of the fires deliberately, but arson not yet ruled out.


What is actually happening:

In the years after 1948 Israeli governments planted fast pine forests in the north of Israel to hide the remains of Palestinian villages which were destroyed by Israeli terrorists during the first wave of settler migration to the North and ethnic cleansing of the native population.

While driving the locals off their lands and into Syria, Lebanon, The West Bank and Gaza, Israeli militia's demolished homes, razed entire villages and destroyed agricultural lands.

In the following few decades the newly establish state of Israeli planted non-native, very combustible pine forests, in a ****ing an area which is prone to draught, gets very hot and already had a history of wile bush fires. Pine is fast growing and high yield. It's also native to the north for a damned reason.


These fires happen every few years. Every time the government claims arson, every time there's no evidence, and every time it's during a dry year.

As usual, this will be used as an excuse to launch incursions into Gaza, bombardments of southern Lebanon or wholesale rounding up of civilians in the west bank for administrative detention.

The Jews and their obsession with trees. IIRC, The climatologists have said the fires weren't weather related.
You are almost quoting, verbatim, a woman who had known links to jihadist groups.
As yet it is not known whether the fires were deliberately started. If so it won't be the first time. I hope your crystal ball is wrong.

NIMAN

I'll not lie, but see when anything about Israel or Palestine comes on the radio, or TV, or internet any more, I seriously couldn't care any less.

It is so dull now. Most of the world is moving on, let them 2 slip back into the past.

getzls

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

getzls wrote: »

Islamic countries surrounding them want to destroy them.

No they don't. Israel has peace deals with Jordan and Egypt for decades. When was the last time Lebanon or Syria initiated a conflict against Israel?

The only group calling for the destruction of Israel are Hamas who exist in Israel's enormous open air prison camp called Gaza.

These Countries perfect man calls for the total slaughter of Jews.
If Israel lay down their weapons Egypt and Jordan would quite happily join in the killing.
Think about it.
Israel lays down their arms and they get killed.
The Palestinians lay down their arms they get peace.

JustAThought

getzls wrote: »

These Countries perfect man calls for the total slaughter of Jews.
If Israel lay down their weapons Egypt and Jordan would quite happily join in the killing.
Think about it.
Israel lays down their arms and they get killed.
The Palestinians lay down their arms they get peace.

Have there been any deaths as s consequence of these fires?

getzls

JustAThought wrote: »

getzls wrote: »

These Countries perfect man calls for the total slaughter of Jews.
If Israel lay down their weapons Egypt and Jordan would quite happily join in the killing.
Think about it.
Israel lays down their arms and they get killed.
The Palestinians lay down their arms they get peace.

Have there been any deaths as s consequence of these fires?

Don't know.
Does Google not work for you?

The_Valeyard

JustAThought wrote: »

Have there been any deaths as s consequence of these fires?

Probably will be when Israeli forces take their anger out on Palestinian civilians

Grayson

getzls wrote: »

These Countries perfect man calls for the total slaughter of Jews.
If Israel lay down their weapons Egypt and Jordan would quite happily join in the killing.
Think about it.
Israel lays down their arms and they get killed.
The Palestinians lay down their arms they get peace.

They get shafted. The state of Israel has broken every single agreement they've ever made with the Palestinians.

I have Israeli friends and they honestly don't think the state will last their lifetimes. It can't go on the way it's been going for the last 50 years.