Dairy chit chat II

whelan2

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Ah it is a lonely oul job for a salesman.
He probably just calls in for a chat.:D

Back in the Age of the Dinosaurs my father had a policy with Combined Insurance. I don't mind saying the name because they're long gone.
But he was paying by direct debit in the bank for a few years and then couldn't see the point of it (seen the light) and stopped the payments.
Well the amount of reps that turned up every few weeks that wouldn't take no for an answer, took the biscuit.
They sent out old male reps with sob stories of the company paying their wages to young female (apologise to the females here) reps with short skirts who would try and get him to change his mind.
Really if anyone has seen the film "The Wolf of Wall Street" this company was like something Jordan Belfort dreamed up.
Dad went back the first year but dug his heels in and left them after that.
Lucky escape. But it would show you what tactics can be used if how can I say you're a little bit soft.:pac:

Brother worked for them for a while. He knew their policies were terrible and left after a week.

ted_182

Sam Kade wrote: »

Jim Woulfe lifting dairy farmers spirits

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dairygold-ceo-outlines-impact-of-brexit-on-farm-gate-milk-prices/#

Be worse if he was sugar coating things with a head in the sand attitude i guess Sam

Water John

Woulfe ever the optomist. Was looking for milk to go down to 17 cent in the last dip. Bettering it here.

No doubt it won't affect his half million plus salary.

kowtow

Just skimmed through the new teagasc update to the 2011 competitiveness report.

There's an article with a well spun headline on agri land stating that Ireland is "still competitive" in cash cost terms.

However ... it's 140 pages and am on my phone so have not looked in detail... it appears that on a total economic cost basis our milk may now be among the most, perhaps even the most, expensive in Europe. We have the "highest total economic cost in relation to output".

It needs a comprehensive read to figure out the details, and I'll dig out the 2011 report for comparison if I get a moment.

kowtow

A fair bit has changed between the two reports.

On a total economic cost basis (as a proportion of output) we are, I think, the most expensive producers in Europe. On a cash cost basis we are among the less expensive. The difference between the two is owned land and family labour which will surprise few here. The idea of expressing costs as a proportion of output (i.e. market value of output) sounds to me a little bit more like a comparison of relative viability or profitability than competitiveness, but leave that aside for the moment.

I'll try and pick some key figures out as I go, but the first one to spring to mind is cost per kg milk solids. We are better performing here than on many measures, and our cash cost is listed as 2.705€ / kg. Only Belgium betters us at 2.44.

When all costs are included, our cost / kg is listed as 4.571, and Belgium, the Netherlands, and the UK all beat us (3.89, 4.51, 4.09 respectively).

Perhaps the most important implications of the report are the changes in cost structure as farms become larger and more "efficient" - these bear a very careful reading and I will be dissapointed if there is not an open, critical, analysis of this report in the press in weeks to come.

RightTurnClyde

kowtow wrote: »

A fair bit has changed between the two reports.

On a total economic cost basis (as a proportion of output) we are, I think, the most expensive producers in Europe. On a cash cost basis we are among the less expensive. The difference between the two is owned land and family labour which will surprise few here. The idea of expressing costs as a proportion of output (i.e. market value of output) sounds to me a little bit more like a comparison of relative viability or profitability than competitiveness, but leave that aside for the moment.

I'll try and pick some key figures out as I go, but the first one to spring to mind is cost per kg milk solids. We are better performing here than on many measures, and our cash cost is listed as 2.705€ / kg. Only Belgium betters us at 2.44.

When all costs are included, our cost / kg is listed as 4.571, and Belgium, the Netherlands, and the UK all beat us (3.89, 4.51, 4.09 respectively).

Perhaps the most important implications of the report are the changes in cost structure as farms become larger and more "efficient" - these bear a very careful reading and I will be dissapointed if there is not an open, critical, analysis of this report in the press in weeks to come.

I'd say, prepare to be disappointed

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

A fair bit has changed between the two reports.

On a total economic cost basis (as a proportion of output) we are, I think, the most expensive producers in Europe. On a cash cost basis we are among the less expensive. The difference between the two is owned land and family labour which will surprise few here. The idea of expressing costs as a proportion of output (i.e. market value of output) sounds to me a little bit more like a comparison of relative viability or profitability than competitiveness, but leave that aside for the moment.

I'll try and pick some key figures out as I go, but the first one to spring to mind is cost per kg milk solids. We are better performing here than on many measures, and our cash cost is listed as 2.705€ / kg. Only Belgium betters us at 2.44.

When all costs are included, our cost / kg is listed as 4.571, and Belgium, the Netherlands, and the UK all beat us (3.89, 4.51, 4.09 respectively).

Perhaps the most important implications of the report are the changes in cost structure as farms become larger and more "efficient" - these bear a very careful reading and I will be dissapointed if there is not an open, critical, analysis of this report in the press in weeks to come.

You're definitely going to be disappointed. I'd hazard a guess that if those costs were on a per litre basis they would look worse.

stanflt

Cows are spoilt next spring- only knocked 65 acres

charolais0153

stanflt wrote: »

Cows are spoilt next spring- only knocked 65 acres

In a good position when you have that much land

stanflt

charolais0153 wrote: »

In a good position when you have that much land

Stocked at 2.35 over whole farm with includes wheat acres

charolais0153

stanflt wrote: »

Stocked at 2.35 over whole farm with includes wheat acres

What about all grazing land?

stanflt

charolais0153 wrote: »

What about all grazing land?

About 2.7 on grazing ground alone- cows mp about 5.5

charolais0153

stanflt wrote: »

About 2.7 on grazing ground alone- cows mp about 5.5

Is that including ground taken out for silage or do u take it as it comes in the form of surplus bales?

stanflt

charolais0153 wrote: »

Is that including ground taken out for silage or do u take it as it comes in the form of surplus bales?

Includes all ground available

charolais0153

stanflt wrote: »

Includes all ground available

2.67 on all ground...3.35 on grazing ground

stanflt

charolais0153 wrote: »

2.67 on all ground...3.35 on grazing ground

Nitrates

charolais0153

stanflt wrote: »

Nitrates

Explain?:)

freedominacup

stanflt wrote: »

Cows are spoilt next spring- only knocked 65 acres

Did you do a nitrate test? How much N applied when? Last question, any worry about second cut heading out in late May?

whelan2

See the co-op performance reports are up on icbf

Wildsurfer

whelan2 wrote: »

See the co-op performance reports are up on icbf

How many 5 stars Whelan?!

whelan2

Wildsurfer wrote: »

How many 5 stars Whelan?!

2 :rolleyes:

Dwag

Any links to those reports KT?
Wouldn't mind reading those.

pedigree 6

Dwag wrote: »

Any links to those reports KT?
Wouldn't mind reading those.

What's the weather like out in France?

Dwag

Hot and dry.
Just back from the east...cold!

whelan2

Dwag wrote: »

Hot and dry.
Just back from the east...cold!

What's calf price like at the moment? Welcome back

Dwag

Not bad Whelan...€220 for males and €175 for females.
LimX and PtX

Probably won't stay long...

kowtow

Dwag wrote: »

Any links to those reports KT?
Wouldn't mind reading those.

This is the 2017 one:

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2017/The-Competitiveness-of-Irish-Agriculture.pdf

For some reason I can't find a link to the 2011 one now... although I do have a copy. I'll see what can be done about uploading it.

And welcome back! Place has been far too quiet....

Dwag

Page 8, exécutive summary, 11% less competitive...sigh..may take a while to wade through this...

Fair dues to you Kowtow, you've stuck to your guns for years and now the numbers back up your analysis.

Almost Pyrrhic...

kowtow

Dwag wrote:

Page 8, exécutive summary, 11% less competitive...sigh..may take a while to wade through this...

It is worth remembering that the favoured teagasc definition of competitiveness is actually margin related... costs vs output. There's some academic backup for that but it does disadvantage us an an export only country. If there are any countries in Europe fit to export solids globally we are certainly among them.

If you look in one of the appendices they have a comparison with both "irish average" and "irish expanded". The expanded herd contains, from memory, 133 cows. I'd be interested to see the logic behind the choice of that figure because it sounds like the obvious sweet spot for a full time labour unit on a grass based system. In cash cost terms it will still benefit hugely from the inherited farm and can almost be run on family labour... in total economic cost terms it will presumably be a model of efficiency because cows / man is just about maxed out. 160 might tell a very different story.

I'd like to see the comparative impact on cash costs at 150 cows and 200 as well as the total economic cost.

There is a lot in that report if you read it carefully because they've covered their arses. The headlines people draw from it tell you more than the content.

What interests me is the potential risk in going from 100 to 200 cows, walking away from the defensive security of cash costing, and becoming less rather than more competitive/ viable along the way. I've always felt there is a dangerous cul-de-sac in that part of the growth curve and by talking too much about cash costs we are sugar coating the financial realities of expansion, even in this low interest rate environment.

K.G.

Dwag wrote: »

Not bad Whelan...€220 for males and €175 for females.
LimX and PtX

Probably won't stay long...

Make a mental note "he,s an ejit dont engage" and you should be fine.works for me - - so far any way