Honestly how amazing is it that we have fluent English?

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All that is ignoring how terrible of a language Irish can be

And allowing you to highlight once again what a predictably uncreative cultural cringe troll you are.

Iwasfrozen

Omackeral wrote: »

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All that is ignoring how terrible of a language Irish can be for example.

A leabhar - his book.
A leabhar - her book.
A leabhar - their book.

Uhm, wut?

What about this;

Through [Troo]
Rough [Ruff]
Bough [Bow]

What about it? The spelling is wacky but unlike Irish the meaning is clear. No loss of information.

Iwasfrozen

Deleted User wrote: »

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All that is ignoring how terrible of a language Irish can be

And allowing you to highlight once again what a predictably uncreative cultural cringe troll you are.

cultural cringe would be if I attacked my own language. Pointing out the flaws in someone else's isn't cringe.

CrabRevolution

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All that is ignoring how terrible of a language Irish can be for example.

A leabhar - his book.
A leabhar - her book.
A leabhar - their book.

Uhm, wut?

Also since the distinction between the broad and slender r has been lost among non native speakers. Leabhar and leabhair sound like homophones.

So his book, her book, their book, his books, her books and their books all sound identical...

Great language altogether. No wonder the revival died. :rolleyes:

You can cherry pick examples from any language.

Your sheep-Singular singular
Your sheep-Singular plural
Your sheep-plural singular
Your sheep-plural plural

Do chaora
Do chaoirigh
Bhur gcaora
Bhur gcaoirigh

Same for fish, aircraft, series etc.

paleoperson

I think the Irish language is stupid. Good on our ancestors who got us to speak English, they were on the ball, if only they knew what a feckin waste of time they would put us through to this day to learn the useless language.

If you're going to be proud of being Irish, then the first step is to caring about Irish people. Continual influx of foreigners who have no intention of ever going home, means the end of the Irish as a people within a few generations.

Nowdays people are preconditioned to believe that this is "racist" so oh no we can't have that. What you're left with is people caring more about the words Irish people used while the Irish people themselves can apparently go to hell.

murpho999

Shenshen wrote: »

I have to ask, would you immediately recognise a cultural difference between Germany and Austria? Most people don't even see a difference between Spain and Portugal in my experience.
People never see the small next to the big, their minds tend not to work that way.

I have found Spanish and Portuguese people to be very different, and also even sound very different as they speak different languages.

As for Austrians and Germans I would not hear the difference as I don't speak German but I would know that they are different, just like Canadians and Americans, Australians and New Zealanders and also, many Latin American nationals.

However, for some reason where I have travelled (and I have been around quite a bit) I have been told I am British by many people and it must come from being such a small country with a shared language next to a larger more dominant one. Very frustrating in my experience.

jimmy blevins

Chuchote wrote: »

Go to Kerry, you'll find they do.

I believe they're actually romulans as they seem to have given up on logic.

murpho999

paleoperson wrote: »

I think the Irish language is stupid. Good on our ancestors who got us to speak English, they were on the ball, if only they knew what a feckin waste of time they would put us through to this day to learn the useless language.

If you're going to be proud of being Irish, then the first step is to caring about Irish people. Continual influx of foreigners who have no intention of ever going home, means the end of the Irish as a people within a few generations.

Nowdays people are preconditioned to believe that this is "racist" so oh no we can't have that. What you're left with is people caring more about the words Irish people used while the Irish people themselves can apparently go to hell.

Do you realise how full of contradictions your ridiculous post is.

First of all you are saying you are proud to be Irish and don't want foreigners coming in, but do you not realise it was foreigners who came in and wiped out the original language and forced English on us.

The foreigners who come here, do so to work. If they stay, then they will have Irish children, so Irish will always be the majority albeit we may be more exotic, colourful and multi-cultural than in the past.

Stop complaining about foreigners. We actually wouldn't have doctors in the hospitals to look after Irish people that you are so worried about without them.

jimmy blevins

myshirt wrote: »

There is no bigger compliment you can pay your enemy than to speak their language.

Yes I realise the irony here, but there you go.

Luke 7:35: But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

paleoperson

murpho999 wrote: »

Do you realise how full of contradictions your ridiculous post is.

First of all you are saying you are proud to be Irish and don't want foreigners coming in, but do you not realise it was foreigners who came in and wiped out the original language and forced English on us.

The foreigners who come here, do so to work. If they stay, then they will have Irish children, so Irish will always be the majority albeit we may be more exotic, colourful and multi-cultural than in the past.

Stop complaining about foreigners. We actually wouldn't have doctors in the hospitals to look after Irish people that you are so worried about without them.

Your post is the one full of contradictions that makes no sense. I clearly explained why, if you would like to go back and read mine again.

Also Irish doctors and nurses are jumping ship and working abroad in their droves because they're being undercut by Pakistani etc. doctors with dodgy english here after using up many thousands each to be trained here, it's a massive problem.

riffmongous

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What about it? The spelling is wacky but unlike Irish the meaning is clear. No loss of information.

Your book
Your book

Oddly enough in the south east we still say 'ye' instead of you for plural

Iwasfrozen

CrabRevolution wrote: »

You can cherry pick examples from any language.

Your sheep-Singular singular
Your sheep-Singular plural
Your sheep-plural singular
Your sheep-plural plural

Do chaora
Do chaoirigh
Bhur gcaora
Bhur gcaoirigh

Same for fish, aircraft, series etc.

Your sheep is a good one I like it.

jimmy blevins

riffmongous wrote: »

Your book
Your book

Oddly enough in the south east we still say 'ye' instead of you for plural

They had there own dialect of middle English there I believe as did fingal, anyways I always use ye it not exclusive to the SE.

riffmongous

murpho999 wrote: »

I have found Spanish and Portuguese people to be very different, and also even sound very different as they speak different languages.

As for Austrians and Germans I would not hear the difference as don't speak German but I would know that they are different, just like Canadians and Amercians, Australians and New Zealanders and also, many latin Amercian nationals.

However, for some reason where I have travelled (and I have been around quite a bit) I have been told I am Britsh by many people and it must come from being such a small country with a shared language next to a larger more dominant one. Very frustrating in my experience.

The differences between Germans and Austrians are pretty tricky, with Austrian identity only forming relatively recently, it's easier to tell the difference between a north German and a south German/Austrian.

riffmongous

jimmy blevins wrote: »

They had there own dialect of middle English there I believe as did fingal, anyways I always use ye it not exclusive to the SE.

Yeah Yola https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_and_Bargy_dialect

I never really heard ye used outside of the SE, what about the use of 'quare' meaning 'very'? "The rain was quare bad last night?"

Iwasfrozen

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah Yola https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_and_Bargy_dialect

I never really heard ye used outside of the SE, what about the use of 'quare' meaning 'very'? "The rain was quare bad last night?"

Quare was used all over Ireland I believe. Well by old people anyway, you dont hear it much now.

riffmongous

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Quare was used all over Ireland I believe. Well by old people anyway, you dont hear it much now.

Also in the 'very' meaning? I thought in the rest of Ireland it was just a way to pronounce queer, like The Quare Fellow

murpho999

paleoperson wrote: »

Your post is the one full of contradictions that makes no sense. I clearly explained why, if you would like to go back and read mine again.

Also Irish doctors and nurses are jumping ship and working abroad in their droves because they're being undercut by Pakistani etc. doctors with dodgy english here after using up many thousands each to be trained here, it's a massive problem.

No it's not full of contradictions.

You say you're proud to be Irish but find Irish to be a stupid language and are happy that we speak English.

You say you're proud to be Irish and don't want foreigners here.

However, the fact that we speak English is because we were invaded by the foreigners whom you despise but gave you the language you love.

As for your doctors comments , any facts to back up what sounds like 100% xenophobia.

Omackeral

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omackeral
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasfrozen
All that is ignoring how terrible of a language Irish can be for example.

A leabhar - his book.
A leabhar - her book.
A leabhar - their book.

Uhm, wut?



What about this;

Through [Troo]
Rough [Ruff]
Bough [Bow]



What about it? The spelling is wacky but unlike Irish the meaning is clear. No loss of information.

Unless someone is reading it aloud or trying to learn a word through speech rather than the written word. All languages have anomalies, quirks and synonyms. Flammable vs Inflammable for example off the top of my head mean the same thing don't they? Slow up and slow down both mean the same thing too. Bit unfair to single out Irish in that regard. I'm sure there are tonnes (or is it tons?!) of examples in English.

Iwasfrozen

riffmongous wrote: »

Also in the 'very' meaning? I thought in the rest of Ireland it was just a way to pronounce queer, like The Quare Fellow

Yeah it the "very" sense but also "really"

"It's quare dark in there"
"It quare took out"

languagenerd

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All that is ignoring how terrible of a language Irish can be for example.

A leabhar - his book.
A leabhar - her book.
A leabhar - their book.

Uhm, wut?

Also since the distinction between the broad and slender r has been lost among non native speakers. Leabhar and leabhair sound like homophones.

So his book, her book, their book, his books, her books and their books all sound identical...

Great language altogether. No wonder the revival died. :rolleyes:

That's a bit of a moot point. Look at French, still a huge world language, even though these sound identical:

Il donne (he gives)
Ils donnent (they give)

Elle donne (she gives)
Elles donnent (they - all females - give)

And all these parts of the verb are pronounced the same, despite meaning different things: donnais, donnait, donnaient, donnez, donné, donner, donnai, donnée, donnés, donné.

And it's often impossible to hear any difference between singulars and plurals.

Irish isn't a terrible language. All languages have their illogical features and irregularities.

paleoperson

paleoperson wrote: »

... dodgy english...

Indeed.

languagenerd

languagenerd wrote: »

Irish isn't a terrible language. All languages have their illogical features and irregulatities.

Ignore him. As they'd say in the more cultured parts of Mayo, he's a ceolán (3b definition, of course). The "hate everything Irish" stuff is part of his online persona, as numerous posters have now noted.

Beanntraigheach

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All that is ignoring how terrible of a language Irish can be for example.

A leabhar - his book.
A leabhar - her book.
A leabhar - their book.

Uhm, wut?

Also since the distinction between the broad and slender r has been lost among non native speakers. Leabhar and leabhair sound like homophones.

So his book, her book, their book, his books, her books and their books all sound identical...

Great language altogether. No wonder the revival died. :rolleyes:

Ambiguities exist in every language.
Think of English "you", which is both singular & plural, or the various "Sie/sie"'s in German.

Re the example above. In actual use, the chances of real ambiguity would be very slight, the context would make the meaning plain.
Where the possibility of misunderstanding existed, there are simple ways to avoid it, e.g.
adding the appropriate emphatic suffix, "a leabharsa" "her book",
using the prepositional pronoun, "leabhar s'aige" "his book".

Really, this is a silly criticism of any language.
Apparent ambiguities generally only last if they don't tend to cause any problems for speakers in practice.

The loss of distinction between broad & slender "R" is, as you say, among some (by no means all) non-native speakers.
To criticise the pronunciation of a language based on the (mis-)pronunciations of learners is ridiculous.

Beanntraigheach

riffmongous wrote: »

The differences between Germans and Austrians are pretty tricky, with Austrian identity only forming relatively recently, it's easier to tell the difference between a north German and a south German/Austrian.

Interestingly, if the Austrian people had had their way, Austria would have become part of Germany after the Austro-Hungarian Empire fell apart.
The victors of WWI refused to permit it.
In fact, there was a strong desire amongst many Austrians for incorporation into the German Empire for decades before the end of the Habsburg realm.

Iwasfrozen

Beanntraigheach wrote: »

Interestingly, if the Austrian people had had their way, Austria would have become part of Germany after the Austro-Hungarian Empire fell apart.
The victors of WWI refused to permit it.
In fact, there was a strong desire amongst many Austrians for incorporation into the German Empire for decades before the end of the Habsburg realm.

I broached this subject with an Austrian friend of mine because I found it odd that no mainstream movement to join Germany exists but it would seem idea became tightly associated with national socialism all throughout the cold war into today.

paleoperson

murpho999 wrote: »

No it's not full of contradictions.

You say you're proud to be Irish but find Irish to be a stupid language and are happy that we speak English.

You say you're proud to be Irish and don't want foreigners here.

However, the fact that we speak English is because we were invaded by the foreigners whom you despise but gave you the language you love.

As for your doctors comments , any facts to back up what sounds like 100% xenophobia.

yera go 'way and don't be codding me.

How can anyone maintain that the language someone speaks is a defining feature of them? Why the hell would it matter? When 99.999% of the other things in the world are fixed, then we can talk about keeping alive a dead language for sentimental reasons.

Arsemageddon

1982

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I broached this subject with an Austrian friend of mine because I found it odd that no mainstream movement to join world cupGermany exists but it would seem idea became tightly associated with national socialism all throughout the cold war into today.

After WW2 Austria was occupied for ten years by France, Britain, the US and the Soviet Union. In order to end the occupation amicably the Soviets demanded that Austria remained neutral. In order to achieve this the Austrians had to agree to include permanent neutrality in their constitution. Therefore, it would not be legally possible for the two states to unite.

You are right in saying that the Austrian union with Germany in 1938 and the shyte they got up to means their is no appetite at all for unification. The closest they have come to an Anschluss was when Germany ad Austria conspired together to cheat Algeria out of a place in the knockout phase of the 1982 World cup by rigging a 1-1 draw. By the by, Thatcher was vehemently opposed to German reunification after the fall of communist Europe.

murpho999

paleoperson wrote: »

yera go 'way and don't be codding me.

How can anyone maintain that the language someone speaks is a defining feature of them? Why the hell would it matter? When 99.999% of the other things in the world are fixed, then we can talk about keeping alive a dead language for sentimental reasons.

Of course a language is a defining feature of how people are, it gives accent, how people think and speak and express themselves. Bear in mind that different languages have different ways to express feelings and emotions that actually do effect how people think.

Language is very important and is a major influence. How Irish people speak English is also influenced by people speaking Irish originally.

Professor Moriarty

paleoperson wrote: »

yera go 'way and don't be codding me.

How can anyone maintain that the language someone speaks is a defining feature of them? Why the hell would it matter? When 99.999% of the other things in the world are fixed, then we can talk about keeping alive a dead language for sentimental reasons.

You're right from a certain perspective. From that anti-sentimentality perspective, one could legitimately argue that the disappearance of the Coral Reef is a thing of nothing, that restoration of the Sistine Chapel is a waste of money, that native Amazonian tribes should abandon their stone age ways, and so on.