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The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭Jan_de_Bakker


    But again does nobody see the double standard here? Extremist SJWs who behave just as badly as people like Milo (and who in my view are responsible for creating his brand of reactionism) don't get dissected and called out in this manner, not in mainstream discourse. The Alt-Right is socially unacceptable, the SJW left is not. That's a major, major difference which in my view makes all the difference in terms of which is the more dangerous movement.

    Exactly, also people are banging on about how alt. right is Anti Feminism, Anti Muslim .... not true.

    They are anti NEO third wave feminism - you know this man hating shutting down free speech movement ??

    They are anti radical Islam and want more honestly in the MSM about the problems within Islam.

    They also seem to be totally pro life/anti choice and would totally disagree with them on that, but on the other 2 I can see their points.

    And yes, the SJW extreme left have a part to play in their rise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    Brian? wrote: »
    Feminism is about equal rights.

    Feminism is about advancing the rights of women. Their focus is solely on women's issues. It is not about equal rights anymore. If it was you would hear them highlight issues affecting men too. They are totally silent on boys underachieving at school, about male suicide, about parental access for fathers. Those things are of no interest to them.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Ah, so no one individual and no culture is deplorable. But it's good if a particular culture dies out.... would you say that rather than being deplorable it was "below average? Mediocre? So so? Pretty good but could do better, should die out all the same? Too awesome, best to kill it off to give others a chance?

    Is it a good thing for ANY culture to be lost, or just some of them?

    Is all culture worth saving? I don't believe so.

    I may have chosen my phrasing poorly. Im not cheerleading the death of a culture. I'm celebrating an increasingly tolerant and multicultural society. Happy?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Brian? wrote: »
    This exactly what I'm talking about. You belittle and hector my earlier posts until you get a one liner you can pull out. Then you selectively edit an older post to make it look like I'm the one being unreasonable and emotional. Well done, Milo and Ann would be proud. This is the online version of shouting over someone.

    How about you address the points I made rather than the points you want to address?

    I don't believe the alt right have any legitimate grievances. The white man is not being oppressed. At worst, white culture in the US is being lost. But IMO that's a great thing.

    Uh, no I didn't "belittle", "hector" nor "wait" for anything. See, again your over-emotionalism in regards to this is not "debate".

    As well as that, I didn't edit anything. The statement from you I posted was a stand-alone sentence in a longer post. Don't get mad at me for posting your own words!

    ***doubt Milo nor Ann care much about Boards.ie, lol

    As for your joy at the "end of White culture", well, assuming you yourself are a White (Irish) man, that seems fairly bizarre.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    This is an important topic well worthy of an intelligent debate. Refrain from posting memes please.

    It also seems worthy to note that this was posted right before the same poster then "liked", and apparently deemed "worthy" this:

    When they finally get girlfriends, they'll grow tired of being trolls.


    This on a thread where they are deleting other posts deemed unworthy.

    There can really be no robust debate here under those conditions, can there?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    The alt-right are basically what the SJWs and modern feminists are for the left.

    Any reasonable person wants free speech for example. SJWs will shut you down when you criticise Islam because it's "racist" and they'll head to their safe space to discuss how racist people who criticise things like Islam are. Question the current values of the feminist movement, why are you misogynistic?

    Meanwhile, the alt-right have The_Donald and other such safe spaces. They claim to be anti-PC yet they are at the pinnacle of outrage against things they disagree with. You get banned in their safe spaces just as quickly as you would on an SJW place. I got banned on The_Donald for simply pointing out that Swedish rape statistics they posted didn't do a breakdown based on whether or not the rapist was a refugee. They are in the post-truth world along with the extreme left.

    Any reasonable right wing person I will have a conversation with because we'll probably agree on things like free speech, like the spread of fundamentalist Islam etc. but these people have nothing in common with the alt-right just like I have nothing in common with the far left.

    Both far sides of the political compass claim to be the antithesis to the other side but they are the mirror image of them. They both shut down when you criticise their opinions. They both shut down when presented with facts. They both shut down when you criticise something about their dear leaders (Bernie and Trump for example). They both love safe spaces that echo their own opinions. They both think free speech is fine provided you don't say something you don't like, the exact opposite of what free speech is. They both hold views that any sane or reasonable person would look at and laugh at.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Uh, no I didn't "belittle", "hector" nor "wait" for anything. See, again your over-emotionalism in regards to this is not "debate".

    As well as that, I didn't edit anything. The statement from you I posted was a stand-alone sentence in a longer post. Don't get mad at me for posting your own words!

    ***doubt Milo nor Ann care much about Boards.ie, lol

    As for your joy at the "end of White culture", well, assuming you yourself are a White (Irish) man, that seems fairly bizarre.

    If you're not going to address the actual points I'm making this is pointless.

    You selectively quoted a post of mine with no context to serve your point of view. I'm not "mad" or "emotional" about it. It actually goes to prove my point about how the alt right works. Hectoring and shouting over people and avoiding any serious engagement on the issues.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    You didn't make any points, you expressed an opinion colored by the statement I highlighted.
    Again: you don't like the Alt Right and are hostile to their pov---but so what?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 267 ✭✭Muhammed_1


    This thread shows the disconnect between modern leftists and the real world.

    So much argument and name calling. So little content.

    The left are becoming increasingly hated by the center and by the rest of society.

    This thread is basically several leftists shutting down debate using labels and name calling and then congratulating each other as if they have actually won a debate using reason and facts.

    The left is unable to debate, unless they are preaching to the choir. The left ignore their own inability to argue their position, or to debate their position. In fact, the left even have difficulties in stating what their position is!

    Does the left support unlimited immigration?


    What is wrong with dabate?
    Why should Ireland be flooded with immigrants?
    Why should corporations have to pay no tax?
    Why do leftists refuse to house Irish people?

    Why do Irish leaders see the need to get pats on the head from German dictators?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    The UK and the US.

    Assuming the left in the USA includes the liberal-left, or social-democratic territory:

    Noam Chompsky
    Paul Krugman
    Richard Wolff
    Nancy Pelosi
    Barney Frank
    Bernie Sanders
    Jesse Jackson
    Keith Ellison
    Harry Reid
    George Clooney is less of a novelty celeb inclusion than you might imagine. He's been a serious and committed progressive activist, and I reckon he'll come more to the fore in the political sphere down the line. He could be the anti-Reagan.


    In the UK:

    Corbyn. Whatever his chances of being PM, he's re-introduced traditional class politics into the mainstream.
    Steve Richards
    Sadiq Khan
    George Monbiot
    Nicola Sturgeon
    Alex Salmond
    Caitlin Moran
    Leanne Wood
    Will Straw
    Harriet Harman - best of the Blairite camp


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Feminism is about advancing the rights of women. Their focus is solely on women's issues. It is not about equal rights anymore. If it was you would hear them highlight issues affecting men too. They are totally silent on boys underachieving at school, about male suicide, about parental access for fathers. Those things are of no interest to them.

    Feminism was always about the advancement of women's rights - to the point of equality. Of course it solely relates to one gender - the clue is in the name.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭Jan_de_Bakker


    Feminism is about advancing the rights of women. Their focus is solely on women's issues. It is not about equal rights anymore. If it was you would hear them highlight issues affecting men too. They are totally silent on boys underachieving at school, about male suicide, about parental access for fathers. Those things are of no interest to them.

    I would agree with this if it was 3rd wave feminism, feminism as in traditional feminism is (should be) purely about equality and there are still traditional feminists in the world - sadly they seem to be diminishing.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Muhammed_1 wrote: »
    This thread is basically several leftists shutting down debate using labels and name calling...
    Muhammed_1 wrote: »
    Why do Irish leaders see the need to get pats on the head from German dictators?

    You complain about people resorting to name calling and then call the German chancellor a dictator?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Uh, no I didn't "belittle", "hector" nor "wait" for anything. See, again your over-emotionalism in regards to this is not "debate".

    As well as that, I didn't edit anything. The statement from you I posted was a stand-alone sentence in a longer post. Don't get mad at me for posting your own words!

    ***doubt Milo nor Ann care much about Boards.ie, lol

    As for your joy at the "end of White culture", well, assuming you yourself are a White (Irish) man, that seems fairly bizarre.

    Nobody is buying your 'emotionalism' spin.

    Just worth saying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Muhammed_1 wrote: »
    This thread shows the disconnect between modern leftists and the real world.

    So much argument and name calling. So little content.

    The left are becoming increasingly hated by the center and by the rest of society.

    This thread is basically several leftists shutting down debate using labels and name calling and then congratulating each other as if they have actually won a debate using reason and facts.

    The left is unable to debate, unless they are preaching to the choir. The left ignore their own inability to argue their position, or to debate their position. In fact, the left even have difficulties in stating what their position is!

    Does the left support unlimited immigration?


    What is wrong with dabate?
    Why should Ireland be flooded with immigrants?
    Why should corporations have to pay no tax?
    Why do leftists refuse to house Irish people?

    Why do Irish leaders see the need to get pats on the head from German dictators?

    Congrats on getting pretty much everything wrong in this straw man riddled post. Hopefully you don't feel 'shut down' by that response..


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    I would agree with this if it was 3rd wave feminism, feminism as in traditional feminism is (should be) purely about equality and there are still traditional feminists in the world - sadly they seem to be diminishing.

    Your evidence for this opinion?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    Muhammed_1 wrote: »
    This thread shows the disconnect between modern leftists and the real world.

    So much argument and name calling. So little content.

    The left are becoming increasingly hated by the center and by the rest of society.

    This thread is basically several leftists shutting down debate using labels and name calling and then congratulating each other as if they have actually won a debate using reason and facts.

    The left is unable to debate, unless they are preaching to the choir. The left ignore their own inability to argue their position, or to debate their position. In fact, the left even have difficulties in stating what their position is!

    Does the left support unlimited immigration?


    What is wrong with dabate?
    Why should Ireland be flooded with immigrants?
    Why should corporations have to pay no tax?
    Why do leftists refuse to house Irish people?

    Why do Irish leaders see the need to get pats on the head from German dictators?

    Which is it the left or the far left? I'm sorry but if you are going to start bagging all left into the SJW left then get out of this debate now. You've already embarrassed yourself with this post that has name calling and absolutely no clear argument.

    Read my post, people like me on the left can debate just as much as people on the right can. It's the extremes of both which can not. You've done the typical extreme side though and tried to make it seem like all left wing people are leftists but if I said the same about the right you'd be going "WRONG WRONG NAME CALLING!"


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 267 ✭✭Muhammed_1


    You complain about people resorting to name calling and then call the German chancellor a dictator?

    Yes, I, and many others, consider that the German Chancellor has gone on a solo run. She has issued diktats.

    She has involved Europe in political positions that haven't been agreed by the majority.

    Her own population are protesting saying Merkel must go.



    In any event, is that the only thing you take from my post?

    Typical leftist.

    Cherry picking, and selective arguing of facts.

    I called the german chancellor a dictator. Hardly controversial, and not on topic. Yet that is the only part of my post that you seek to reply to.

    You are seeking to find offence, and to take offence, at every opportunity and it is obvious to everyone, except leftists themselves apparently.

    You want to be a victim as it allows you to act like a cry baby snowflake.


    Yes, I'm aware I'm using labels but I am explaining their use, and defending their use. Using facts and reason.


    Do you support unlimited immigration into this country while Irish people live on the streets?


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I suppose she is a dictator if you adopt your own definition of dictator. But not really by the commonly accepted one.

    There's a general election in Germany next year, so it won't be too long now before we find out if the German population would like her to go.

    Also, if you've an issue with name calling, why are you resorting to terms such as "cry baby snowflake"?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    Muhammed_1 wrote: »
    Yes, I, and many others, consider that the German Chancellor has gone on a solo run. She has issued diktats.

    She has involved Europe in political positions that haven't been agreed by the majority.

    Her own population are protesting saying Merkel must go.



    In any event, is that the only thing you take from my post?

    Typical leftist.

    Cherry picking, and selective arguing of facts.

    I called the german chancellor a dictator. Hardly controversial, and not on topic. Yet that is the only part of my post that you seek to reply to.

    You are seeking to find offence, and to take offence, at every opportunity and it is obvious to everyone, except leftists themselves apparently.

    You want to be a victim as it allows you to act like a cry baby snowflake.


    Yes, I'm aware I'm using labels but I am explaining their use, and defending their use. Using facts and reason.


    Do you support unlimited immigration into this country while Irish people live on the streets?

    What has immigration got to do with this particular topic, though? Absolutely nothing. Also please read my posts, the alt-right are just as ludicrous as the far left, you'll keep ignoring this fact though I'm sure so you can carry on with your worldview.

    I'm not the poster but no obviously I don't support unlimited immigration but if you think it's a problem for Ireland then you haven't looked at the facts.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-refuses-asylum-to-90pc-of-applicants-35229842.html

    Read all of it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Muhammed_1 wrote: »
    Yes, I'm aware I'm using labels but I am explaining their use, and defending their use. Using facts and reason.


    Do you support unlimited immigration into this country while Irish people live on the streets?

    FACT - there is no unlimited immigration in this country.

    Next.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 267 ✭✭Muhammed_1


    alastair wrote: »
    Congrats on getting pretty much everything wrong in this straw man riddled post. Hopefully you don't feel 'shut down' by that response..

    I don't feel shut down.

    It is obvious that you cannot argue your position. All you have is denigration, misrepresentation and name calling.

    Undecided voters viewing this thread will see you for what you are. You're a bully seeking to close down debate using name calling.

    Can you point out where the supposed errors or straw men are in my post?


    Do you support gender quotas in companies and in politics?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Muhammed_1 wrote: »
    I don't feel shut down.

    It is obvious that you cannot argue your position. All you have is denigration, misrepresentation name calling.

    Not actually a fact, but there you go.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 267 ✭✭Muhammed_1


    The question was.
    Do you support unlimited immigration into this country while Irish people live on the streets?
    alastair wrote: »
    FACT - there is no unlimited immigration in this country.

    Next.

    A straightforward refusal or failure by you to answer a simple question.

    Or else, a masssive inability to comprehend simple english.

    The question was.
    Do you support unlimited immigration into this country while Irish people live on the streets?


    You haven't answered it.
    Are you aware of that or do you think you're performing to a high standard?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Muhammed_1 wrote: »
    The question was.
    Do you support unlimited immigration into this country while Irish people live on the streets?



    A straightforward refusal or failure by you to answer a simple question.

    Or else, a masssive inability to comprehend simple english.

    The question was.
    Do you support unlimited immigration into this country while Irish people live on the streets?


    You haven't answered it.
    Are you aware of that or do you think you're performing to a high standard?

    Ah - so you're interested in debating academic issues that don't actually apply.
    What's your position on cats driving the LUAS then?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Ah, the deflector shield. Wow, this thread is really ticking the boxes!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 267 ✭✭Muhammed_1


    What has immigration got to do with this particular topic, though? Absolutely nothing. Also please read my posts, the alt-right are just as ludicrous as the far left, you'll keep ignoring this fact though I'm sure so you can carry on with your worldview.

    I'm not the poster but no obviously I don't support unlimited immigration but if you think it's a problem for Ireland then you haven't looked at the facts.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-refuses-asylum-to-90pc-of-applicants-35229842.html

    Read all of it.

    Support for immigration is consider a left wing issue.

    The lunatic No Borders crowd are leftists. It is ok to call them lunatics as that is what they clearly are. Anyone calling for poeple to unlock their houses and cars and to leave them unlocked would also be called a lunatic.

    Calling for a country to be unlocked is the same thing.

    It is crazy to open our borders to the world.


    That's why I posed my question about support for unlimited immigration. You may have since noted that the left are unwilling to answer the question.
    What are they afraid of?
    That if they answer people will see them as foolish?

    If you think your own position is foolish and indefensible then perhaps you should row back from it.


    I see your article had the headline.
    Ireland refuses asylum to 90pc of applicants

    So what?

    All political parties seem to support open and unlimited immigration. No party has placed a limit on immigration which makes what I say true.

    It is bizarre that supposed nationalist parties like Sinn Fein support unlimited immigration. They are lying about their own nature.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 267 ✭✭Muhammed_1


    alastair wrote: »
    Ah - so you're interested in debating academic issues that don't actually apply.
    What's your position on cats driving the LUAS then?

    Head in the sand type refusal to debate.

    You support unlimited immigration in the sense you refuse to state an upper limit. Therefore, there is no upper limit.

    Are you unwilling to clearly state your own position as it sounds foolish?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    I end up wondering whether it's either myself or the entire movement that's lost touch with the common man.

    Or woman.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Muhammed_1 wrote: »
    Support for immigration is consider a left wing issue.

    The lunatic No Borders crowd are leftists. It is ok to call them lunatics as that is what they clearly are. Anyone calling for poeple to unlock their houses and cars and to leave them unlocked would also be called a lunatic.

    Calling for a country to be unlocked is the same thing.

    It is crazy to open our borders to the world.


    That's why I posed my question about support for unlimited immigration. You may have since noted that the left are unwilling to answer the question.
    What are they afraid of?
    That if they answer people will see them as foolish?

    If you think your own position is foolish and indefensible then perhaps you should row back from it.


    I see your article had the headline.
    Ireland refuses asylum to 90pc of applicants

    So what?

    All political parties seem to support open and unlimited immigration. No party has placed a limit on immigration which makes what I say true.

    It is bizarre that supposed nationalist parties like Sinn Fein support unlimited immigration. They are lying about their own nature.

    Sinn Fein don't support unlimited immigration.
    But feel free to keep railing against windmills.


This discussion has been closed.
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