Confusing platform signposting at Heuston Station

Chivito550

I rarely take the train from Heuston, but I've taken trains all around Europe and have never had difficulty finding a platform.

Today I had booked the 2pm train to Cork. I arrive at 1:45pm, see that the train is going from platform 6 and toddle on over.

Platforms 1-5 are accessed at the front of the station, while platforms 6-8 you have to walk around the side. No problem there.

I walk up to the ticket gate area by platforms 6-8 and see a big sign saying "6" on the left of the door which brings you out to a platform. On this platform was a train saying "Cork". I get on this train only to find out after it was too late that this was in fact the next train, the 3pm train, and it was platform 5. From the direction I entered the platform, there was no sign saying it was platform 5, and the platform 6 sign indicated that this platform was platform 6, when in reality platform 6 is on the other side a further walk up.

I said this to various Irish Rail staff. A couple said it was confusing and poorly signposted but none of them cared. I had to pay an extra 10 euro to change my ticket.

Has anybody encountered this before?

Del.Monte

I'm sure that the defend Irish Rail brigade will be along soon to tell you that it was your fault.

Chivito550

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm sure that the defend Irish Rail brigade will be along soon to tell you that it was your fault.

Some members of staff seemed to think I was stupid anyway.

I have taken trains all around Europe, Australia, Russia, even China, Japan and Korea, where they can't even speak a word of English, and I have never had a problem finding a platform. How hard is it for them to put up a clear sign saying platform 5, when you have to walk past platform 5 to find platform 6. Lunacy.

nuckeythompson

It was right in front of you

Hilly Bill

You shouldn't have been able to get on the later train when your's was still on the platform. The surcharge seems unfair in this case, there should have been at least someone there to Point you in the right direction.

hmmm

I think you have two choices:

1. Give out about it to staff who don't care or
2. Use a competitor in future, and rage when you hear that Irish Rail are looking for a "subvention" for "loss-making public service routes".

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

I think you have two choices:

1. Give out about it to staff who don't care or
2. Use a competitor in future, and rage when you hear that Irish Rail are looking for a "subvention" for "loss-making public service routes".

yes, it's aweful that an operator would dare to expect to be paid for providing a service. they should be a charity and provide it for free. have i got that correct?

op i agree with you, signage is something that clearly needs improving hugely.

Carawaystick

If you paid by credit card I'd instigate a chargeback

Jamie2k9

When you exit onto platform 6 there is a second LED screen saying Cork straight ahead, at no point does it take take a left an merge with P5. The exit door is directly pointing to P6.

Some members of staff seemed to think I was stupid anyway.

I hate to say it but....

Jamie2k9

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You shouldn't have been able to get on the later train when your's was still on the platform. The surcharge seems unfair in this case, there should have been at least someone there to Point you in the right direction.

Come on a little harsh but it's not IE fault he missed the train. Perhaps an empty train was a big clue

Mortpourvelo

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Come on a little harsh but it's not IE fault he missed the train. Perhaps an empty train was a big clue

My membership of the "Defend Irish Rail Brigade" is still in the post but I travel from Heuston, day in day out for ten years now.

There is no signposting problem.

There are 5-6 screens overhead in the main concourse and at less busy times two trains going to the same place can be seen.

OP saw one train at platform 6, was the wrong train. Not IR's fault surely!!!

Whatever happened to personal responsibility ? A couple of times I've got a train at a different time to normal and seen my station sail past. You get off the next one, feel a moron and wait to come back.

You don't blame the company!

Chivito550

Check out the attached photo. Walking in that way you would be forgiven for thinking that that was platform 6 with the upcoming train to Cork. No signage that it was platform 5. If you have to walk through platform 5 to get to platform 6 then it should be clearly signposted that it is platform 5.

Losty Dublin

What's the green thing in the photo that has Cork written on it?

Chivito550

Losty Dublin wrote: »

What's the green thing in the photo that has Cork written on it?

I'm clearly not explaining myself properly. I'll try again.

The time was 1:50pm.

I wanted to get 2pm train to Cork which was on platform 6.

I walk up to where I am in the photo.

The signage indicates that platform 6 is right through the door.

I get on this train, thinking it is platform 6.

It was in fact platform 5 and the 3pm Cork train which was sitting there waiting to go over an hour in advance.

There was no signage telling me this was platform 5.

Am I supposed to just guess the platform?

There should be a sign saying this platform is platform 5, and that 6 is further up. The signage in that picture is very deceiving.

Mortpourvelo

Chivito550 wrote: »

I'm clearly not explaining myself properly. I'll try again.

The time was 1:50pm.

I wanted to get 2pm train to Cork which was on platform 6.

I walk up to where I am in the photo.

The signage indicates that platform 6 is right through the door.

I get on this train, thinking it is platform 6.

It was in fact platform 5 and the 3pm Cork train which was sitting there waiting to go over an hour in advance.

There was no signage telling me this was platform 5.

Am I supposed to just guess the platform?

There should be a sign saying this platform is platform 5, and that 6 is further up. The signage in that picture is very deceiving.

No, it really isn't. Come through that door and in front of you are several signs saying Platform 6.

Red neon ones too - showing the time and destination of any train there.

You made a mistake, pull up your big girl pants and accept it.

Chivito550

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

No, it really isn't. Come through that door and in front of you are several signs saying Platform 6.

Red neon ones too - showing the time and destination of any train there.

You made a mistake, pull up your big girl pants and accept it.

Typical Irish half arsed attitude to public transport. Sorry but if I walk out onto platform 5 to get to platform 6, there should be a sign telling me it is platform 5. One staff member told me people get caught out by that quite a bit.

Mortpourvelo

Chivito550 wrote: »

Typical Irish half arsed attitude to public transport. Sorry but if I walk out onto platform 5 to get to platform 6, there should be a sign telling me it is platform 5. One staff member told me people get caught out by that quite a bit.

Typical lazy "blame everyone else but myself" attitude you mean.

Chivito550

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Typical lazy "blame everyone else but myself" attitude you mean.

The entrance to platform 5 is at the front of the station. Entrances to platforms 6-8 are by a different entrance. If there is a way into platform 5 where the 6-8 entrances are then why is there no signage for 5 at all over by this entrance?

Sorry, but I've taken trains in bleedin China and have never had problems finding platforms.

Turnipman

Chivito550 wrote: »

I'm clearly not explaining myself properly. I'll try again.

The time was 1:50pm.

I wanted to get 2pm train to Cork which was on platform 6.

I walk up to where I am in the photo.

The signage indicates that platform 6 is right through the door.

I get on this train, thinking it is platform 6.

It was in fact platform 5 and the 3pm Cork train which was sitting there waiting to go over an hour in advance.

There was no signage telling me this was platform 5.

Am I supposed to just guess the platform?

There should be a sign saying this platform is platform 5, and that 6 is further up. The signage in that picture is very deceiving.

Commiserations. You were just unlucky. Circumstances led to you making an understandable error. If the "Corcaigh" sign hadn't been lit on that train standing right in front of you, then you'd probably have looked around and spotted the signs for Platform 6.

Why not contact IE Customer Services and tell them what happened. Suggest that the train on platform 5 shouldn't light up its destination sign until the earlier train to the same destination has pulled away. They might refund you the extra tenner. http://www.irishrail.ie/contact-us/customer-service-section

hawkwind23

Bit of sympathy for the OP.
Although not a departure problem , an arrivals problem.

I pick my kids up at Heuston , firstly its hard to find a screen advertising the arrivals and allocated platforms.
More often than not the arrival platform will change with no updates on the screens or announcements.
Cue frantic running around the station trying to find out the new platform.

Its all very haphazard , loads of screens not booting up , poor quality announcements along with numerous changes make it quite a stressful experience.

On occasion the departure platform will change but it tends to be a stampede then to the new platform , nightmare with young kids.

Dont get me started on ignorant people taking the kids seats and refusing to move!

My experience is generally good on Irish Rail but its far from perfect

magicbastarder

Chivito550 wrote: »

One staff member told me people get caught out by that quite a bit.

which is a clear sign (pun unintended!) that there's an issue with signage.
the onus should be on IE to provide clear, unambiguous signage, rather than insisting the customer understands the unwritten rules of their signage decisions.

devnull

Losty Dublin wrote: »

What's the green thing in the photo that has Cork written on it?

Lets be fair though, the provision of information displays and general information at Irish Rail stations leaves a lot to be desired. I have been in 7 countries this year an Irish Rail is by far the worse for that, but that is in large part due to their approach to information.

Irish Rail seem to think information signs and boards are there for people who already know something about the layout of the station, when in fact information boards should be there to clearly give information to people who don't already have knowledge of the station.

The attitude from the Irish Rail defenders on this thread, if also that of management and staff within the company, explains a vast degree about why the information provision in English is worse than most countries where English isn't even an official language.

There are several serious usability flaws with the provision of Irish Rail information around the network and the stations that lead new customers and passengers to intense confusion because they are not clear and they are very confusing and badly laid out.

The UK may have it's problems with the rail system, but in the provision of information it is light years ahead of Irish Rail and other cities just as good if not better. Because it looks at information provision through the eyes of the passenger.

The standards for information display and way finding in most other countries is drawn up by getting people who had never been to the station before to complete certain tasks and see where they go wrong and what problems occur and what important information they can't get but they need.

This then influences the design to be changed to ensure that these problems do not happen and the information that passengers require they get in the revised information flows what they implement in stations and on platforms. This becomes the most important component in design of these systems.

My membership of the "Defend Irish Rail Brigade" is still in the post but I travel from Heuston, day in day out for ten years now. There is no signposting problem.

The reason other coutnries don't go on what regular commuters think or staff members is this is people who already have knowledge of the station therefore this influences their decisions and does not really test how well signposted they are because people already know these things from memory.

Unfortunately Irish Rails' opinion for a long time has been that you should have all of the information ready and checked out and know the layout of the station perfectly before you come to the station and the signs are not there to help you or direct you but are just as some rough guide.

With this attitude to information it's no wonder we have a huge thread about why is Dublin's Public Transport so bad, if we can't even get the basics right what chance do we have with anything that is more advanced?

Connolly has serious issues with information provision as well, but at least all of the signs there are not misleading, even if the overall information provision leaves a lot to be desired.

NickNickleby

I'd have to say, looking at that photo, it certainly seems to indicate that this is the entrance to platform 6.

I'm going to assume that in fact to get to platform 6 , one passes through the gate and turns right to eventually arrive at platform 6. The sign in the photo should indicate this. A simple arrow would suffice.

To those saying "just walk a bit further", I would say - why not put the sign out front saying "All platforms". It would every bit as informative. And the advice of just walk a bit further would be the answer to all queries.

If there's a sign, it should be completely unambiguous, otherwise its worthless.

Anyway, my curiosity is piqued. I'm going to pop down some day and look for myself.

Nick

Losty Dublin

Chivito550 wrote: »

I'm clearly not explaining myself properly. I'll try again.


There should be a sign saying this platform is platform 5, and that 6 is further up. The signage in that picture is very deceiving.

No need to explain anything. I was just wondering if that train was actually ready for boarding, thats all

Dr.MickKiller

Chivito550 wrote: »

Check out the attached photo. Walking in that way you would be forgiven for thinking that that was platform 6 with the upcoming train to Cork. No signage that it was platform 5. If you have to walk through platform 5 to get to platform 6 then it should be clearly signposted that it is platform 5.

It is a bit ambiguous but a couple of things that if I was in your position would make me question if I was on the right train/platform:

1. The "6" sign is on the right of the pole, which would indicate that platform 6 is on the right hand side. This is pretty much standard in any train station I've been in.

2. There's a white line extending from the door, on the left hand side, along with the orange barriers. This suggests to me to follow the path.

3. Was there anyone else on the train? With a train so close to departure, if there was few people/no one else on it, I'd be looking to ask someone if I was on the correct one.

devnull

It's extremely poorly laid out, if you go through a door saying 6, you assume that it leads to only Platform 6, so if you see a train after going through the door you'd assume that is platform 6 since the sign above the door says 6, it does not mention any other platform.

There are very easy way to avoid this issue altogether which requires just a little basic thought in usability

The way I'd do it.
- Remove display above the door. (it's confusing)
- Place on actual platform
- Replace Misleading sign with < 5 | 6 >

It's really that simple.

Chivito550

Dr.MickKiller wrote: »

It is a bit ambiguous but a couple of things that if I was in your position would make me question if I was on the right train/platform:

1. The "6" sign is on the right of the pole, which would indicate that platform 6 is on the right hand side. This is pretty much standard in any train station I've been in.

2. There's a white line extending from the door, on the left hand side, along with the orange barriers. This suggests to me to follow the path.

3. Was there anyone else on the train? With a train so close to departure, if there was few people/no one else on it, I'd be looking to ask someone if I was on the correct one.

Just like a game of cluedo!

I've never taken the train to Cork before so I had no idea how busy it usually is. All the talk on here about Irish Rail struggling financially meant I wasn't surprised that nobody was sitting in my carriage. I had a quick walk around and saw somebody sitting down in the next carriage so I wasn't the only one on the train.

Vic_08

NickNickleby wrote: »

I'd have to say, looking at that photo, it certainly seems to indicate that this is the entrance to platform 6.

I'm going to assume that in fact to get to platform 6 , one passes through the gate and turns right to eventually arrive at platform 6. The sign in the photo should indicate this. A simple arrow would suffice.

No. The OP has taken that pic at an angle, looking at the train on P5 through the door to P6
The sign and train describer is directly behind P6.

OP walked out that door and tuned left to the train sat on P5, despite walking through the main station alongside the train sat under several large "5" signs.

As seen in this pic if he had walked out that door and straight on he would have been at P6

As seen here about 15m in front of the door there is a small sign attached to the pole with "5" and "6" shown as well as a second train describer immediately above the P6 buffer stops which would also have been showing the correct train information.

devnull

Chivito550 wrote: »

I've never taken the train to Cork before so I had no idea how busy it usually is. All the talk on here about Irish Rail struggling financially meant I wasn't surprised that nobody was sitting in my carriage. I had a quick walk around and saw somebody sitting down in the next carriage so I wasn't the only one on the train.

It comes back to what I said earlier.

Any information sign, display or system that relies at all on you having to know how busy a train is, which train stops where or requires good knowledge of the station or it's layout has failed to adequately do it's job. The job of information is to inform, people who lack said knowledge, if it does not do that then it fails usability standards.

The Irish Rail defenders on here will never admit that however. Because the company is always right and the passenger is always wrong and should know better. And if all else fails blame the Government or the NTA.

devnull

The other problem here is that the Orange Barrier is open, it should be closed, that would make a big difference and the fact that it's been left open adds to the confusion. If you have no way to access Platform 5 from the door that says Platform 6, since there is a barrier or partition in the way, the problem also goes away.

Maybe a staff member went through it and left it open? If that is the case a permanent barrier would also serve as an alternative to resigning the platforms and that door.

Dyr

I dont use irish rail but back when I did I always ignored the signage and asked whichever shiny trousered layabout was at hand as to which train was which.

The signage was always misleading