Trainerroad

dahat

Any users of the above?

A week in and finding the structure of a turbo workout a bug plus for me. Hoping it helps me get stronger plus shifts a few kilos over the winter months.

Sweet spot base, mid volume is where I started out.

Sinbad_NI

Yeah I use it. Very handy to add the structure without needing to buy a powermeter.
I find it improves my fitness a great deal, def worth the effort of doing it, especially when its cold and wet outside.

Get yourself a good boxset series to watch and the time fly's by.

dahat

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Yeah I use it. Very handy to add the structure without needing to buy a powermeter.
I find it improves my fitness a great deal, def worth the effort of doing it, especially when its cold and wet outside.

Get yourself a good boxset series to watch and the time fly's by.

Couldn't watch a series while dying on that tbh, solid tunes via the mix cloud app helps. I also find the on screen prompts helpful and distract you from the pain at hand.

Sinbad_NI

dahat wrote:

Couldn't watch a series while dying on that tbh, solid tunes via the mix cloud app helps. I also find the on screen prompts helpful and distract you from the pain at hand.

Podcasts are good too.

Yeah the on screen drills can help alleviate the boredom but do tend to get a bit played out after a while I find.

dahat

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Podcasts are good too.

Yeah the on screen drills can help alleviate the boredom but do tend to get a bit played out after a while I find.

Things like cadence & single leg drills are things I need to work on so I'm quite keen to engage just now.

Have you found the improvement worthy of the fee? My first winter with a somewhat structured training program even if it is a bit more intense than most would be doing this time of year.

Sinbad_NI

Oh absolutely, I saw and felt a huge improvement.
Build phase is much harder work... take your time... the pain is still ahead.

dermabrasion

This works for me when I have the discipline to stick to it. Ive a few sufferfest videos that I pair up, but I dont really get any inspiration from them. Banging tunes are best.
I've considered going over to Zwift, but I don't need another subscription (Strava, Training peaks & Traineroad) to be a better cyclist. Just some consistency and stay away from the cake tin.

dahat

You are right consistency is key with this program and any program really. You either over it or hate it I reckon so if the interest falls away a program like this isn't really for you..

I have a Keeler Needle workout to face this morning and after a group spin yesterday I'm pretty nervous even scared as it looks quite intense.

For someone without a power meter it does give a different angle to workouts which I have to intrepid into cadence and heart rate levels to get the most from this on the road in the Spring.

bren_mc

Just wondering if anyone has been having the same issue as me lately when doing the FTP test (20 minute version ). Whereas it used to previously calculate target wattage for the 20 minute effort by adding 5% to my current FTP, it now seems to do so by adding 5 watts.The result is that even if I was to slightly exceed the target for the duration of the test, my new suggested FTP would be lower than the current. As a result, I've had to increase my FTP before doing the test so as to produce a more realistic target. I emailed technical support but got this response...

Hey Brendan,

I checked out your last test and it looks like things were calculated correctly. The target power line is meant to represent the wattage you would need to output in order to maintain the same FTP score. I think it is just a coincidence that you are seeing a 5 watt difference.

For the 20-minute test, the target would be 5% higher than your FTP and on the 8-minute test your target will be 10% higher than your current FTP.

Regardless, the target power is sort of irrelevant. The goal of the FTP tests is for you to push your absolute maximum for the interval. The target line is a reference so you know whether you are going to exceed your current FTP score or not. Really, users should aim to push above the target as much as possible.

I hope this helps!
Hunter Ault
Customer Support

Macy0161

Due to do a test this week, but always assumed the target for the test was based on current FTP to be honest. Bar trying to maintain at least that, I've always just tried to bury myself for the 20 minutes rather than to use the target.

bren_mc

Macy0161 wrote: »

Due to do a test this week, but always assumed the target for the test was based on current FTP to be honest. Bar trying to maintain at least that, I've always just tried to bury myself for the 20 minutes rather than to use the target.

Well yes, clearly the target is based on current FTP. Trainerroad acknowledged as much in their response above...

bren_mc wrote: »

For the 20-minute test, the target would be 5% higher than your FTP and on the 8-minute test your target will be 10% higher than your current FTP.

My point is though that if you use that target (indeed even if you raise your FTP by a couple of points with a view to achieving a new FTP), the target calculated by trainerroad will be too low (unless you have an FTP of 100 or less). For example my current FTP is 271. If I do a test, it will set the target at 276. If I complete the test and hit this target throughout, my new suggested FTP will be 257 (i.e. 276 * 0.95).

Sarz91

bren_mc wrote: »

Well yes, clearly the target is based on current FTP. Trainerroad acknowledged as much in their response above...



My point is though that if you use that target (indeed even if you raise your FTP by a couple of points with a view to achieving a new FTP), the target calculated by trainerroad will be too low (unless you have an FTP of 100 or less). For example my current FTP is 271. If I do a test, it will set the target at 276. If I complete the test and hit this target throughout, my new suggested FTP will be 257 (i.e. 276 * 0.95).

Targets in an FTP test are pretty useless IMO. You either start out too hard trying to stay on target power in which case you blow or you stay on target and push on in the last minute or so which means you haven't paced yourself correctly.

bp_me

bren_mc wrote: »

Well yes, clearly the target is based on current FTP. Trainerroad acknowledged as much in their response above...



My point is though that if you use that target (indeed even if you raise your FTP by a couple of points with a view to achieving a new FTP), the target calculated by trainerroad will be too low (unless you have an FTP of 100 or less). For example my current FTP is 271. If I do a test, it will set the target at 276. If I complete the test and hit this target throughout, my new suggested FTP will be 257 (i.e. 276 * 0.95).

Ignore the targets. They are only a guide. Sometimes you hit the guide... sometimes the guide hits you Assuming you are on an electronic trainer it swaps to slope/resistance mode at the start of each test block anyway so it's not locking you into a number. It's helpful to do some quick mental maths before it begins to get an idea of where you should be if you have done 2-5% increase since the last test.

Based on the email you got back from support the number wouldnt be right anyway (in that it's not really an advancement target). It would be the minimum you need to do to maintain your current ftp number.

On another note I have 4x free 1 month referrals for anyone who wants to test it out.

Paul_Mc1988

Bumping this on the off chance someone has a free trial. Looking for a structured plan as opposed to floating around as i do on zwift. Cheers

bp_me

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Bumping this on the off chance someone has a free trial. Looking for a structured plan as opposed to floating around as i do on zwift. Cheers

I should have. PM me your email address.

You can also do structured on zwift FYI.

Paul_Mc1988

PMed you there. Yeah but iv been reading and watching some great reviews about trainerroad so wanna give it a try.

py

Anyone got any free trials to hand for TrainerRoad? Thanks.

bp_me

I think I have 2 left.

Edit: Ok. Sent to PY. I have one month left for the next person who digs up this thread

py

Many thanks, worked a treat.

wirelessdude01

bp_me wrote:

Edit: Ok. Sent to PY. I have one month left for the next person who digs up this thread

Can I nab the remaining one?

bp_me

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Can I nab the remaining one?

Yup. Send me a PM with your name and email address.

Macy0161

Kinda thinking aloud before I test it myself, but has anyone tried TrainerRoad with an Android TV Box? Got one for TV/ Music while doing sessions, but thinking it might be an option rather than the netbook in and out to the pain cave (and I don't really like the phone when trying to watch TV at the same time)? Also thinking ahead if/ when zwift launch on Android.

wirelessdude01

bp_me wrote:

Yup. Send me a PM with your name and email address.

Done.

Macy0161

Coming to the end of base phase. My plan is to do club (evening) leagues this year - so anyone any recommendations as to whether I should go Short Power Build or General Build (and then crit or rolling road race speciality)? From what I can work out the races wouldn't be crits in the strictest sense, but generally an hour or so in duration (handicapped start), which has me thinking short power then crit speciality.

I've never raced before, and have been concentrating on TT stuff since I started structured training. I've no real pretentions of doing anything but hanging on as long as possible in the races!

JimmiesRustled

Macy0161 wrote: »

Coming to the end of base phase. My plan is to do club (evening) leagues this year - so anyone any recommendations as to whether I should go Short Power Build or General Build (and then crit or rolling road race speciality)? From what I can work out the races wouldn't be crits in the strictest sense, but generally an hour or so in duration (handicapped start), which has me thinking short power then crit speciality.

I've never raced before, and have been concentrating on TT stuff since I started structured training. I've no real pretentions of doing anything but hanging on as long as possible in the races!

If its only club league stuff I'd look at short power build as club league is generally an hour or so worth of a race. Are you still doing TT's or just strictly looking at club league?

Macy0161

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

If its only club league stuff I'd look at short power build as club league is generally an hour or so worth of a race. Are you still doing TT's or just strictly looking at club league?

The club leagues are the main priority this year. I'll be doing a handful of TT's/ Tris at most, so not gearing the training around them. I think/ hope the weekend spin will look after the endurance/ more steady state stuff side for TT's and sportives. Well enough for my goals in them anyway.

jntsnk

Send traineroad a message on Facebook. I did , got a great response, as I was wondering after base as well.

dahat

I'm looking General build then Rolling Road for the speciality phase for A3 racing this year as I'll need to be able to power up climbs to avoid being dropped.

I might as above drop them a mail and see what they recommend but hard to describe racing here to an American id say.

bp_me

dahat wrote: »

I might as above drop them a mail and see what they recommend but hard to describe racing here to an American id say.

From listening the podcast it seems like the only difference is the opinion on what counts as a climb (hint... we dont have many).

Macy0161

Might try facebook, as I'm continually disappointed not to have my question read on the podcast...

In other news, anyone do the Ramp Test that they're testing to replace the 8 and 20 minute tests? Did it yesterday, albeit with tired legs after a hard club spin on Saturday, but haven't got the outcome yet. I feel I've fecked up the pacing of my last couple of 20 minute tests/ hit a mental barrier with them, so will be interested to see how it compares. They're also hinting that they'll be going more like a training peaks style, allowing you to upload outdoor rides and track total TSS within TrainerRoad.

JimmiesRustled

Macy0161 wrote: »

Might try facebook, as I'm continually disappointed not to have my question read on the podcast...

In other news, anyone do the Ramp Test that they're testing to replace the 8 and 20 minute tests? Did it yesterday, albeit with tired legs after a hard club spin on Saturday, but haven't got the outcome yet. I feel I've fecked up the pacing of my last couple of 20 minute tests/ hit a mental barrier with them, so will be interested to see how it compares. They're also hinting that they'll be going more like a training peaks style, allowing you to upload outdoor rides and track total TSS within TrainerRoad.

They've released a beta. It's free to sign up and download the beta version. I'm unsure what the changes are or if there are any.

Chumpski

Ive been using trainerroad myself this winter since October.

Ive done a full base phase. I did the Sweet Spot high volume I plan. And when i finished that i repeated it. I chose to repeat part I as I just did not have the mental energy to do 2 hour sessions indoors on weekdays.

So the results have been excellent for me. Ive increased my FTP metric by 20% since i started. Its been hard work and has taken alot of commitment to do the sessions and the intervals.

Currently I am just starting the build phase. Some of the sessions are extremely painful.

I like that its teaching me how to train with power and heart rate and to make the most of the 10-13 hours per week i do.

I dont agree fully with doing the entire plan indoors. Sometimes an outdoor ride is needed to clear the head. Plus for endurance. Overall Im really happy with it.

Hoping i will be good this year. But then racing is a whole other ball game isnt it to training? You have to be aggressive and really want the placings and to take them on the day.

Matt Bianco

Chumpski wrote: »

Ive been using trainerroad myself this winter since October.

Ive done a full base phase. I did the Sweet Spot high volume I plan. And when i finished that i repeated it. I chose to repeat part I as I just did not have the mental energy to do 2 hour sessions indoors on weekdays.

So the results have been excellent for me. Ive increased my FTP metric by 20% since i started. Its been hard work and has taken alot of commitment to do the sessions and the intervals.

Currently I am just starting the build phase. Some of the sessions are extremely painful.

I like that its teaching me how to train with power and heart rate and to make the most of the 10-13 hours per week i do.

I dont agree fully with doing the entire plan indoors. Sometimes an outdoor ride is needed to clear the head. Plus for endurance. Overall Im really happy with it.

Hoping i will be good this year. But then racing is a whole other ball game isnt it to training? You have to be aggressive and really want the placings and to take them on the day.

That's great progress and shows real dividends for a serious time commitment into turbo work alone - would well believe you would crave an outdoor spin to clear the head!

dahat

Chumpski wrote: »

Ive been using trainerroad myself this winter since October.

Ive done a full base phase. I did the Sweet Spot high volume I plan. And when i finished that i repeated it. I chose to repeat part I as I just did not have the mental energy to do 2 hour sessions indoors on weekdays.

So the results have been excellent for me. Ive increased my FTP metric by 20% since i started. Its been hard work and has taken alot of commitment to do the sessions and the intervals.

Currently I am just starting the build phase. Some of the sessions are extremely painful.

I like that its teaching me how to train with power and heart rate and to make the most of the 10-13 hours per week i do.

I dont agree fully with doing the entire plan indoors. Sometimes an outdoor ride is needed to clear the head. Plus for endurance. Overall Im really happy with it.

Hoping i will be good this year. But then racing is a whole other ball game isnt it to training? You have to be aggressive and really want the placings and to take them on the day.

I used TrainerRoad for my winter training as a first season racer last year, sweet spot low volume, general build then Rolling Road, u have always had a Sunday endurance spin added to the plan or you would crack up. 9-10 hrs weekly all in.

I credit the sessions as a massive help to me getting a first season upgrade.
TrainerRoad does work, you just have to commit to it as you have done.

Macy0161

Unfortunately it's an either/or for me - I wouldn't get the Saturday TrainerRoad and the Sunday club spin over the weekend, at the moment. I could probably squeeze in the other way around, but tbh I'm not sure I'd be fresh enough for over/unders on a Sunday after the Saturday spin which is what sweet spot base II generally are, never mind whatever awaits during build!

I feel the Saturday spins have plenty of sweet spot and threshold work (mainly as I'm trying to hangon!), but I'm weighing up power meter options to try and confirm that. But tbh, I also need the outlet of the outdoor group spin, so I'm not prepared to sacrifice it even if it is a compromise.

dahat

Have 2hr Zone 2/3 spin on a Sunday instead of the normal 4hrs most club spins take maybe?

Crocked

Macy0161 wrote: »

Might try facebook, as I'm continually disappointed not to have my question read on the podcast...

In other news, anyone do the Ramp Test that they're testing to replace the 8 and 20 minute tests? Did it yesterday, albeit with tired legs after a hard club spin on Saturday, but haven't got the outcome yet. I feel I've fecked up the pacing of my last couple of 20 minute tests/ hit a mental barrier with them, so will be interested to see how it compares. They're also hinting that they'll be going more like a training peaks style, allowing you to upload outdoor rides and track total TSS within TrainerRoad.

Haven't signed up to the beta but looking forward to trying this out. They think it will remove pacing problems and lead to more consistent results as you just ride to failure. Personally I find it really tough to just sit on the same power number for 20 mins, one of many reasons I'm a crap TT'er.

If you search for ramp test x in Trainerroad you can see it to see how its works

I think it was Shane Millar who had a vlog with Stephen Lane on this about a year ago for some more info on it.

Chumpski

Crocked wrote: »

Personally I find it really tough to just sit on the same power number for 20 mins, one of many reasons I'm a crap TT'er.

Me too, the sweet spot intervals are very challenging. Sometimes i was questioning if my training levels were right, felt like threshold work at times. I think on those days though i was just fatigued. Or my window was not open enough and i overheated or something.

Chumpski

dahat wrote: »

I used TrainerRoad for my winter training as a first season racer last year, sweet spot low volume, general build then Rolling Road, u have always had a Sunday endurance spin added to the plan or you would crack up. 9-10 hrs weekly all in.

I credit the sessions as a massive help to me getting a first season upgrade.
TrainerRoad does work, you just have to commit to it as you have done.

Hope so, im aiming to earn an upgrade this year too to A3 after coming back to racing last year, but mid way through the year so i didnt really have the work done and struggled to get out of the bunch for any length of time.

dahat

Chumpski wrote: »

Hope so, im aiming to earn an upgrade this year too to A3 after coming back to racing last year, but mid way through the year so i didnt really have the work done and struggled to get out of the bunch for any length of time.

Only need to get out of the bunch once... On the line!
Patience and bottle needed for A4.

Macy0161

Crocked wrote: »

If you search for ramp test x in Trainerroad you can see it to see how its works

I did the test yesterday, just waiting on what they reckon my ftp is based on that to compare to the last 20 minute test.

Chumpski

The 20 minute test is the one ive been doing. Ramp test looks interesting. Shorter, i wonder how accurate it is.

daragh_

Will that Ramp test automatically calculate an FTP like the the 20 or 8 min test? And if anyone has done it how does it map on to previous results in terms of accuracy?

Also I fear change.

Paul_Mc1988

I only ever do a ramp test as i find it more consistant as i cant screw the pacing because i go till i pop. Their might be days where the legs feel a bit lack luster but overall the results are generally in the same ball park.


On a side note i did test against the 20 min test as you are supposed to do a couple of times and found the result from the step test to be slightly inflated. I now have my personal percentage dialed in to 80.5 as opposed to the 82.5 as the study suggests.

Macy0161

daragh_ wrote: »

Will that Ramp test automatically calculate an FTP like the the 20 or 8 min test? And if anyone has done it how does it map on to previous results in terms of accuracy?

They're working on the algorithm's, so it's only in testing and then they apparently send the result. Being impatient, I emailed earlier to ask how to get the result, but going on the facebook testing group, most seem happy with it's accuracy.

Definitely less of a challenge physically and mentally than the 20 minute test, and they reckon you can do a workout after a bit of break after doing it, rather than it being a workout in it's own right.

I was fairly cooked from Saturday's spin, but still interested to see how it compares - setting myself up for disappointment as like I was saying, I don't feel the last 20 minute test went well, but at the same time haven't been confident to up the intensity!

daragh_

Thanks for the feedback. Will give it a lash this week and see how I go.

Macy0161

Well disappointingly, the ramp Test gave me a 6% lower ftp than what I perceived to be rubbish 20 minute tests! But wasnt going in fresh or after a recovery week.

dahat

Macy0161 wrote: »

Well disappointingly, the ramp Test gave me a 6% lower ftp than what I perceived to be rubbish 20 minute tests! But wasnt going in fresh or after a recovery week.

Was it a pointless test then if you weren't fully prepared to maximise your result?

Macy0161

dahat wrote: »

Was it a pointless test then if you weren't fully prepared to maximise your result?

Probably, but it's like around 20 minutes in total, and I was just interested to see! I actually think it will be of more benefit for those on a smart trainer to be honest. Looking at it I was overshooting by a few watts each ramp until the point of failure.

JimmiesRustled

Macy0161 wrote: »

Probably, but it's like around 20 minutes in total, and I was just interested to see! I actually think it will be of more benefit for those on a smart trainer to be honest. Looking at it I was overshooting by a few watts each ramp until the point of failure.

Honestly, a ramp test on a trainer without erg is a bit of a waste. You're better of doing the standard tests as your power fluctuates too much for the steps within a ramp especially when you're about to blow.

joey100

I know you say it's disappointing that the ramp test gave you a lower number than the 20 min tests but is it not better to be working off proper zones based on the right number rather than zones based off a higher number? It's the main reason I don't like the way it's called a 'test'. The aim of it is not to get as big a number as you can, you only have to look at the 20 min test history on trainer road to see how many fudge the 5 min clearing effort so they can have a higher 20min average and so a higher FTP. The aim of it is to work out your training zones. I do take that you were tired and not going in fresh, and I'm not having a go at you Macy it's just I've seen a lot of people disappointed when they get a number lower than planned.