Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

catbear

The express? Ah here!

What is now, 10p a copy?

Flattery is cheap.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Look at the mirror link. The number is still around 52%. I wonder why some people can't just let it go. Remain lost and they need to deal with it. I have two brothers who voted remain, I voted leave. They don't like the result but they have accepted it ultimately.

Not saying you personally but some people in the UK still seem to be in the grief stage.

I think a link with an actual poll from 6th Oct, trumps a link with no poll but a pollster giving his 'opinion' from 23rd Sept.


The people who wanted to Remain are dealing with it, Theresa May being a case in point, who wanted to Remain.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

FrancieBrady

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

She campaigned for Remain, 75% of her parliament want to Remain.
They are dealing with the result, despite claims to the contrary.

Grayson

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think a link with an actual poll from 6th Oct, trumps a link with no poll but a pollster giving his 'opinion' from 23rd Sept.


The people who wanted to Remain are dealing with it, Theresa May being a case in point, who wanted to Remain.

May is a politician. I'm pretty certain that whatever course she opts for it will not be the best for the UK but the best for her. She won't take any decision that will jeopardise her future as PM.

FrancieBrady

Grayson wrote: »

May is a politician. I'm pretty certain that whatever course she opts for it will not be the best for the UK but the best for her. She won't take any decision that will jeopardise her future as PM.

Totally agree.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Look at the mirror link. The number is still around 52%. I wonder why some people can't just let it go. Remain lost and they need to deal with it. I have two brothers who voted remain, I voted leave. They don't like the result but they have accepted it ultimately.

Not saying you personally but some people in the UK still seem to be in the grief stage.

I think a link with an actual poll from 6th Oct, trumps a link with no poll but a pollster giving his 'opinion' from 23rd Sept.


The people who wanted to Remain are dealing with it, Theresa May being a case in point, who wanted to Remain.

He is a very credible pollster to be fair.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/11/yougov-focus-groups/

steddyeddy

Martin McGuinnes says he does not trust James Brokenshire, secretary of state for Northern Ireland to negotiate on behalf of NI in Brexit discussions. It appears Martin and Arlene won't be invited to the talks. A conversation with Arelene's like talking to a brick wall from the Orange Order but but despite that, she's elected by the people and should be included in the talks. As should Martin.



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/37704302?client=ms-android-samsung

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

He is a very credible pollster to be fair.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/11/yougov-focus-groups/

Yes he is and he is a member of the team that found in this research that 6% of Leave voters would vote the other way now.

http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/faqs/#.WAjnJOArLcs

He is a member of the team that found this out in a survey of over 10,000 people conducted on 6th Oct 2016.
So I think his opinion might just possibly have altered slightly from the one he had on the 23rd Sept or 5th Aug 2016

What do you think? :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

Martin McGuinnes says he does not trust James Brokenshire, secretary of state for Northern Ireland to negotiate on behalf of NI in Brexit discussions. It appears Martin and Arlene won't be invited to the talks. A conversation with Arelene's like talking to a brick wall from the Orange Order but but despite that, she's elected by the people and should be included in the talks. As should Martin.



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/37704302?client=ms-android-samsung

A cynic might think that they don't want the regions muddying the waters.

FrancieBrady

This is also interesting.

The popular narrative about Bregret was that many Leave voters had not really expected to win and voted to Leave out of protest or just to give the political elite a bloody nose. We can look at this using our wave 8 (daily campaign) question “How likely do you think it is that the UK will vote to leave the EU?” with answers given from 0-100. The figure below shows that there is some truth in this interpretation. For Leave voters the chance of regret decreased from about one in ten for those that thought they were certain to lose, to about one in twenty five for those who expected to win. Overall, 8% of Leave voters who expected to lose regretted voting to Leave – 2% more than the overall figure for Leave voters. There was little evidence of any equivalent relationship for Remain voters except that those who felt certain to lose were a little more likely to regret voting to Remain. Perhaps they just regretted wasting their time.

There is a caveat:

Before getting too carried away, however, we should not assume that most Leave voters actually expected to lose. Whilst those expecting to lose were more likely to regret their vote, they were also in a minority.

All in all, more evidence to suggest the outcome would be different now?

frag420

The Brexit Club.....

A Little Pony

I knew we would win, the feeling in the country outside the elite class and political class was apparent among the people who live in the real world.

daithi7

Hope ye enjoy this little brexit ditty,

'We're Sorry Scotland' by the Fascinating Aidas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVy7faNKEtM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

I knew we would win, the feeling in the country outside the elite class and political class was apparent among the people who live in the real world.

I get that 100%. Areas like Hull voted out. Hull has suffered from very low government investment and wanted to protest that. They protested against the wrong thing however. They won the referendum but will lose socially, economically and the UK will be more divided.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

They protested against the wrong thing however. They won the referendum but will lose socially, economically and the UK will be more divided.

This. And, once again, the big story of the past 10, 20 or 30 years: the rich are getting much richer and inequality has grown much bigger in the US, Britain and Ireland. They became richer still out of the cutbacks from our latest recession.

But trust the ignorant plebs in Britain to be swayed by newspapers and news stations owned by really, really rich people and their relentless penchant for deflecting blame for British society's ills upon foreigners of all sorts, and scapegoating the EU by stirring up atavistic English hatred for the French and Germans.

Thomas Piketty on growing inequality in the Western world

Anita Blow

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I knew we would win, the feeling in the country outside the elite class and political class was apparent among the people who live in the real world.

I get that 100%. Areas like Hull boted out. Hull has suffered from very low government investment and wanted to protest that. They protested against the wrong thing however. They won the referendum but will lose socially, economically and the UK will be more divided.

This is exactly it. I can absolutely understand that large swathes of England feel disenfranchised and like they've been left behind, particularly the north of England. But leaving the EU does nothing to fix this. In fact it'll likely make it worse. The reality of the situation is that the UK has now lost it's tariff-free access to the EU. As the head of Toyota UK said, no brexit deal will ever be as good as the free deal they've been enjoying up until now. On top of that, the UK is now going to be a lone fish in a very big pond trying to negotiate trade deals for the very first time in near 50 years which far more experience, far bigger fish. It absolutely will not achieve better trade terms than it did as part of the largest economy on the planet, and on the extreme off-chance that it does, it will be at the expense of workers rights and standards.

NI & Wales are going to be particularly badly hit, especially considering they will have no voice at the negotiating table. Scotland is the largest region after England and has Nicola Sturgeon who despite also not having a voice during negotiations, has been especially vocal and from previous track record will ensure that Scotland is heard. Theresa May will look after the interests of the UK as a whole, but the interests of the entire UK are not necessarily those of NI and Wales. Making up the lost EU structural funds into NI on top of the 11 billion pounds she already gives them and the border with Ireland will be very low down on her list of priorities. Ultimately, while a hard border would certainly damage both ROI & NI culturally and socially, it wouldn't have much of an economic impact on the south. NI accounts for ~1.5% of our exports but we account for 40% of theirs. Our trade with mainland Britain, which is the bulk of our UK trade, is unaffected by the presence of a hard border with NI

catbear

frag420 wrote: »

The Brexit Club.....

Capt'n Midnight

This is interesting, as it may give another reason for Scottish politicians to leave the UK.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37704568

The political map of Scotland is to be almost completely redrawn under plans to cut the number of Scottish seats at Westminster from 59 to 53.
...
But the proposed boundary changes have been described as "unacceptable" by Labour and the SNP - which won 56 of the 59 seats in Scotland at the last general election.

FrancieBrady

Anita Blow wrote: »

This is exactly it. I can absolutely understand that large swathes of England feel disenfranchised and like they've been left behind, particularly the north of England. But leaving the EU does nothing to fix this. In fact it'll likely make it worse. The reality of the situation is that the UK has now lost it's tariff-free access to the EU. As the head of Toyota UK said, no brexit deal will ever be as good as the free deal they've been enjoying up until now. On top of that, the UK is now going to be a lone fish in a very big pond trying to negotiate trade deals for the very first time in near 50 years which far more experience, far bigger fish. It absolutely will not achieve better trade terms than it did as part of the largest economy on the planet, and on the extreme off-chance that it does, it will be at the expense of workers rights and standards.

NI & Wales are going to be particularly badly hit, especially considering they will have no voice at the negotiating table. Scotland is the largest region after England and has Nicola Sturgeon who despite also not having a voice during negotiations, has been especially vocal and from previous track record will ensure that Scotland is heard. Theresa May will look after the interests of the UK as a whole, but the interests of the entire UK are not necessarily those of NI and Wales. Making up the lost EU structural funds into NI on top of the 11 billion pounds she already gives them and the border with Ireland will be very low down on her list of priorities. Ultimately, while a hard border would certainly damage both ROI & NI culturally and socially, it wouldn't have much of an economic impact on the south. NI accounts for ~1.5% of our exports but we account for 40% of theirs. Our trade with mainland Britain, which is the bulk of our UK trade, is unaffected by the presence of a hard border with NI

And what needs to be said again and again over the next 2 years is a Tory government has not and will not care about Hull or Scotland or NI nor indeed Ireland. All the above should be making their own plans.

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

This is interesting, as it may give another reason for Scottish politicians to leave the UK.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37704568

Redrawing boundaries is usually done to ensure that all MPs represent the same number of people(while not increasing the number of MPs), so presumably the populations in those areas is growing slower than in other more southern areas.

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And what needs to be said again and again over the next 2 years is a Tory government has not and will not care about Hull or Scotland or NI nor indeed Ireland. All the above should be making their own plans.

They must have had a rip roaring time under labour then, no?

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They must have had a rip roaring time under labour then, no?

Labour need to get their act together. I completely understand the people of some areas being left behind. The lack of Labour oppisition is why the SNP are winning.

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They must have had a rip roaring time under labour then, no?

Do you think Tory governments understand Hull or NI?
Or Scotland?
Do they not have a huge problem in Scotland or NI, yet here they are, making a huge decision about the future without direct input fro those they claim are 'equals'.
Not sure how I could spin that one as a so called member of a 'united kingdom'.

McGuinnes is right about trust.

Grayson

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They must have had a rip roaring time under labour then, no?

Well the good Friday agreement was signed.

Grayson

frag420 wrote: »

The Brexit Club.....

the big brexit?

Brexit on pluto?

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

Don't know anyone who regrets the vote. But then I am from Upper Bann.

A so-called union/loyalist living in Upper Bann who lives in a region completely dependent on a subvention from those who do not give a **** about you is not living in the real world.

If the British economy begins to tank you will see those non-British who make up 60% of the people in the northeast of Ireland begin to look away from the disUK and towards the EU, and the absolute best way of achieving this is through a United Ireland.

Hold on off on the ol' regret until we see what happens.

Enzokk

Has the quotes from Matthias Wissman been discussed? It seems that he acknowledges that the UK market is a big market for German Car makers, but they will not neglect the EU for UK alone.

"The UK is an important market for the German car industry, but the cohesion of the EU27 and with it the single market is more important for this industry," he said.

Link here from Monday

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you think Tory governments understand Hull or NI?
Or Scotland?
Do they not have a huge problem in Scotland or NI, yet here they are, making a huge decision about the future without direct input fro those they claim are 'equals'.
Not sure how I could spin that one as a so called member of a 'united kingdom'.

McGuinnes is right about trust.

You're using the fact that there is a Tory government as a reason why NI, Scotland and Hull should go there own way. We've had six years of a Tory government (of which four were as part of a coalition) but prior to that, there was over a decade of Labour.

Has the fortunes of those areas changed in the six years or were they this way for longer?

Fratton Fred

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A so-called union/loyalist living in Upper Bann who lives in a region completely dependent on a subvention from those who do not give a **** about you is not living in the real world.

If the British economy begins to tank you will see those non-British who make up 60% of the people in the northeast of Ireland begin to look away from the disUK and towards the EU, and the absolute best way of achieving this is through a United Ireland.

Hold on off on the ol' regret until we see what happens.

Do the people of Dublin give a **** about Letterkenny?