Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

Anita Blow

A Little Pony wrote: »

The people of Gibraltar have to decide what future they want.

A Little Pony wrote: »

They will follow the example of her Majesty the Queen. They want to stay British.

"The people will decide what they want...actually scratch that, they'll do what they're told"
The cognitive dissonance is giving me a migraine

Stars and Stripes

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL_LtDRMHLM

I'm certainly no fan of the Tory's, but Heseltine was astute when it came to realpolitik. If Britain suffers economically clearly it will have some knock on effect on us, nevertheless, it's a process we must go through and if the result of it is a weakening and break up of the British state then it has to welcomed.

VinLieger

I cried laughing after hearing about gibraltar, as if more evidence was needed about how little thought was put into the whole thing

steddyeddy

VinLieger wrote: »

I cried laughing after hearing about gibraltar, as if more evidence was needed about how little thought was put into the whole thing

I'm pro-remainer living in England and I didn't even predict that.

Nate--IRL--

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm pro-remainer living in England and I didn't even predict that.

It isn't your job to predict it, it is however Her Majesties Governments to. And they didn't. Not even a mention in the A50 letter.

Nate

A Little Pony

Anita Blow wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The people of Gibraltar have to decide what future they want.

A Little Pony wrote: »

They will follow the example of her Majesty the Queen. They want to stay British.

"The people will decide what they want...actually scratch that, they'll do what they're told"
The cognitive dissonance is giving me a migraine

They want to remain British.

First Up

A Little Pony wrote:

They want to remain British.

They may find they are not in the best place to do it.

R P McMurphy

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm pro-remainer living in England and I didn't even predict that.

I know a few people that work there and they all live in La Linea de la concepcion. They were pretty nervous coming up to the vote and have been considering moving back to Ireland or to England since. The Spanish can make things very awkward very quickly for Gibraltar and have done on numerous occasions. Is a horrid little place anyway, dirty, full of scruffy monkeys and reeks of urine

A Little Pony

First Up wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote:

They want to remain British.

They may find they are not in the best place to do it.

Government officials have come out to defend Gibraltar. No chance they will not want to remain in the empire.

FrancieBrady

Hard to believe that the UK 'forgot' or 'overlooked' mention of Gibraltar.
More likely they were hoping it wouldn't become a battleground.
Spain clearly has a different view.

Spain 1 Britain 0

All to play for in the second half.

First Up

A Little Pony wrote:

Government officials have come out to defend Gibraltar. No chance they will not want to remain in the empire.

What they want and what they end up with might not be the same. It won't be their decision.

embraer170

Gibraltar may have voted 99% to remain part of the UK, but they also voted 96% remain in the recent Brexit referendum.

Capt'n Midnight

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

A guy from Gibraltar was talking there on Sky giving out that Ireland wasn't on their side over the wording about Spain in Donald Tusks statement.

Irony overload.

Doesn't that guy realise that Spain isn't the only country in the EU that has territory occupied by the UK ?


Cyprus for example.





Anyway it's win-win for Spain, the future of Santander and other Spanish companies in the UK is looking a whole better now, compared to the cost of the UK exchequer of subsidising Gibraltar.

VinLieger

A Little Pony wrote: »

Government officials have come out to defend Gibraltar. No chance they will not want to remain in the empire.

Empire...... Lol the sun set on that a LONG time ago

It may not be up to then what happens to gibraltar which is highly ironic

Capt'n Midnight

First Up wrote: »

Everyone knows what the UK wants. The only thing to be negotiated is the price.

True.

The problems are that the UK isn't even offering the €60Bn remaining on the contract for cancelling early, and in addition the EU wants Freedoms for it's citizens.

And all this has been known for ages.

Capt'n Midnight

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm pro-remainer living in England and I didn't even predict that.

stefanovich wrote: »

Bringing Gibraltar into the conversation was all the fault of the EU. Showing their true colours.

Doing this gives Spain leverage in other areas of the Brexit deal.

The Gibraltar issue has been going on for hundreds of years, and has come up time and time again. So not exactly a surprise.


Look at the history , there's the tobacco smuggling. The artificial reef. And the 96% vote to stay in the EU, all clue as to what might happen.



Also I'm sure the good people of Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Cornwall are OK with all the attention being given to Gibraltar.

A Little Pony

What is the story on Cornish pasties? I read something about them the other day on Brexit, I hope that issue can be resolved.

Capt'n Midnight

A Little Pony wrote: »

What is the story on Cornish pasties? I read something about them the other day on Brexit, I hope that issue can be resolved.

Baby and bath water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_traditional_specialities_in_the_European_Union

Three European Union schemes of geographical indications and traditional specialties, known as protected designation of origin (PDO), protected geographical indication (PGI), and traditional specialities guaranteed (TSG), promote and protect names of quality agricultural products and foodstuffs.

Inside the EU regional names are protected.

Outside it's like
Wild World by Cat Stevens

You say you want to start something new
And it's breaking my heart you're leaving
Baby, I'm grieving

But if you want to leave, take good care
Hope you have a lot of nice things to wear
But then a lot of nice things turn bad out there

Oh baby baby it's a wild world
It's hard to get by just upon a smile
Oh baby baby it's a wild world

...

But if you want to leave take good care
Hope you make a lot of nice friends out there
But just remember there's a lot of bad and beware

Zubeneschamali

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Inside the EU regional names are protected.

Outside it's like
Wild World by Cat Stevens

Even Wensleydale?

Junkyard Tom

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Inside the EU regional names are protected.

Will Britain not just clone that law in its great repeal copy-pastie bill?

R P McMurphy

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Will Britain not just clone that law in its great repeal copy-pastie bill?

I would imagine that the name could be used inside other EU countries once brexit goes ahead.

Junkyard Tom

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I would imagine that the name could be used inside other EU countries once brexit goes ahead.

So we could make and sell Cornish Pasties to our English tourists?

Christy42

BBDBB wrote: »

Yes. And by the same token the actual amounts involved are important, given the massive sums involved, to ignore that and obscure it is simply disingenuous in order to support a political agenda

The U.K. Will not make that sacrifice, if you think they will, then you may have a point. But I can assure you, you have seriously misunderstood the uk position and attitude. Everyone here is saying how the uk has made its bed and now they are going to pay the price. Do you seriously think that all the EU need to do is go to each of the 27 and ask what's on their Christmas list? What to you want the GB to bring you this year? And then when that's all done the uk will cough up to enter the single market and still be a good, cooperative neighbour

The art of any negotiations not telling the other side what you want, it's not about being in the position to hurt the other side more or less than they hurt you, it's not about squeezing the last drop out of them, it's about keeping both sides around the table, keeping the dialogue going or else what's the point of having negotiations at all? Just send a letter back, Thanks, sorry you are going, here's your wine bill, here's how much it's going to cost you to trade going forward and here is our list of demands not to invade you because we are bigger than you

Getting 27 individuals to agree a strategy is problematic, to think otherwise is naive. They all have a veto, Ie the power to put the brakes on, do you really believe that 26 will allow 1 to scupper progress, create uncertainty and delay a productive future? I don't. The bigger picture is too valuable to all, for that to be permitted.

Even in total amounts the UK has the most to lose out of any individual country here.

No not every country will get what they want out of this but the final result will end up a lot closer to the EU's wish list than the UK's. To begin with the single market is off the table. I don't even think Spain will get what it wants entirely. It will however pretty much define the terms of the agreement (aside from the UK still technically owning the place I would guess). Aside from being able to say they technically own it I don't see the UK fighting hard over it when it is an easy thing to let slide to get Spain a bit nicer at the negotiating table.

The EU has yet to stop the UK from creating uncertainty and delay a productive future.

Zubeneschamali

Christy42 wrote: »

No not every country will get what they want out of this but the final result will end up a lot closer to the EU's wish list than the UK's.

Once upon a time, we had to pretend that the substance mattered, but nope. not any more. The anti-EU brexit numbnuts have shown their colours - facts do not matter, just winning.

Let them all rot.

Grayson

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So we could make and sell Cornish Pasties to our English tourists?

Scotch whiskey maybe?

snowflaker

Grayson wrote: »

Scotch whisky maybe?

fyp

BBDBB

Christy42 wrote: »

Even in total amounts the UK has the most to lose out of any individual country here.

No not every country will get what they want out of this but the final result will end up a lot closer to the EU's wish list than the UK's. To begin with the single market is off the table. I don't even think Spain will get what it wants entirely. It will however pretty much define the terms of the agreement (aside from the UK still technically owning the place I would guess). Aside from being able to say they technically own it I don't see the UK fighting hard over it when it is an easy thing to let slide to get Spain a bit nicer at the negotiating table.

The EU has yet to stop the UK from creating uncertainty and delay a productive future.

How much in euros will the EU lose ? If it's tuppence then yeah you
have a point, if it's billions of euros then I'm right, the sum of money is too big to simply shrug and allow the deal to not be made, that's the point I was making. The argument that the uk will suffer more because the Euro is bigger is true but it was never an argument I was advocating

Right, so whilst the 27 nations will indeed have their own priorities, they won't all be realised and therefore they won't be permitted by their EU colleagues to block the whole thing over something meaningful to only them. They will be allowed to stamp their feet but eventually the EU will have to present a united front in the extent and parameters of their requirements. I happen to think that the uk stance over Gibraltar will be an absolute no, I don't see them budging on it, clearly others think otherwise, fair enough. But if I'm right, Spain will eventually be brought into line by the EU to allow progress to be made, that's why, to answer the original question, the Eu will blink first on this one.

I'm fairly sure the uk wants the uncertainty to disappear every bit as much, possibly more so, given what's at stake

Grayson

snowflaker wrote: »

fyp

Doh!


Although Scotland may not need to worry about that.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/02/spain-drops-plan-to-impose-veto-if-scotland-tries-to-join-eu

Spain has said it would not veto an attempt by an independent Scotland to join the EU, in the clearest sign yet that Brexit has softened Madrid’s longstanding opposition.

Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish foreign minister, made it clear that the government would not block an independent Scotland’s EU hopes, although he stressed that Madrid would not welcome the disintegration of the UK. He also said Edinburgh would have to apply for membership, a process fraught with uncertainty that is likely to take several years.

Asked directly whether Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU, Dastis said: “No, we wouldn’t.”

That's removed the biggest obstacle to an independent Scotland entering the EU. Sure, there's still an ascension process but there was no way they'd join if a member vetoed them.

snowflaker

https://twitter.com/ComedyCentralUK/status/847859783801737217

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

Doh!


Although Scotland may not need to worry about that.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/02/spain-drops-plan-to-impose-veto-if-scotland-tries-to-join-eu




That's removed the biggest obstacle to an independent Scotland entering the EU. Sure, there's still an ascension process but there was no way they'd join if a member vetoed them.

Looks like they have finally decided that they cannot be seen to be an obstacle to an independent Scotland re-joining the EU, assuming Brexit happens first.
Presumably, the issue of Catalan breaking away and remaining in the EU will be treated as an internal affair.