Running away

Swashbuckler

Welcome back to logging...

You find the longer sustained efforts harder....there's a clue there 😉

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170404#Comment_119170404

Haha thanks for the reminder A, perfect timing. Having said that I don't think I'll be able enjoy Summer races as much as I hoped as my young ones schedules are jam packed with sporting fixtures that I have to accommodate 🙄 but I will definitely try to keep that in mind and I am excited just to experience the buzz of a start line again and even more so the finish line buzz 😅

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171071#Comment_119171071

Is there 🤔😂

Swashbuckler

Haha. I think you stand to gain a huge amount by working on that area. Those longer sustained efforts are generally purely aerobic and getting conditioned for that will just stand to you massively for all distances. And if you find them hard it implies that it's an area worth working on.

But I'm biased because I've been reading up a lot on Lydiard lately. And I seem to be joining the Murph and DD cult.

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119173048#Comment_119173048

Yes I understand. Under normal circumstances I do a fair few tempo (10m-HM pace) efforts alright and I don't mind those (to a degree), I suppose what I meant by sustained efforts was more 6-7mins @ CV pace (between 5 & 10k pace), this is where I really struggle and probably why I'm a disaster with 10k races. There seems to be a limit to how much I am willing to suffer 🙄 Yesterdays' session was 15mins tempo (on effort without looking at the watch and averaged 8:03min/m), 5' recovery, 8*1' hard (again no watch gazing, averaged 6:45min/m pace). This was very doable, but if for example you asked do 4 * 6' @ 7:25-7:35 I'd find it much harder and on paper this should probably be ok? But the basis of what you are saying is still absolutely correct, if it's something I find hard then it means it's an area worth working on. Food for thought... thanks P.

Swashbuckler

Ah I get you now. Wouldnt worry too much there E. I dont think anybody finds those kinds of sustained efforts "easy". Give me 4*6mins at 10k pace and thats a very hard workout for me. 24mins of 10k effort wouldn't be hugely unusual but in the past I would probably have been limited to 4 or 5min reps (like 6 x 1k or 4x1200m). Different coaches have different philosophies though. McMillian would have you doing 3 x 2 miles of 10k pace in his plans. No thanks.

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119179997#Comment_119179997

Those McMillan 10k workouts look horrific 🤢

ariana`

I'm amazed that I'm only on the 2nd page after 4+ months.

Anyhow, I'm still alive, still kicking, still trying to run... August brought a diagnosis of iron deficient anaemia which I was told to expect to take a good 6 months to correct. I'm back in a couple of weeks for repeat bloods for another red flag which was raised during the August bloods so will recheck iron then while we're at it, hopefully it will have improved somewhat. Work has been very busy. A (welcome) role change last March, and employee retention issues have me busier than ever while also outside of my comfort zone with the new job description so that's all a bit draining.

I've been a bit unstructured recently but inspired by all the great Chicago, Amsterdam & DCM training going on - simply amazing blocks have been put in by so many around here, I've decided to jump back into a plan of sorts to finish out the year - shockingly there is only 10 weeks left in 2022! Still, it's enough to fit in some training before deciding on some goals for 2023 - even 1 goal attempt would be an improvement on this year.

My mileage recently has been around the mid 30 miles per week so based on that I'm going to start a block around 30 miles and builds to low 40s over the weeks. I may do the Border HM in Dec - will just see how that one pans out with family commitments, it'd be mid-training plan, but it might give me an idea of my endurance. I ran 1:45 last March without going all out but I sincerely doubt I could do that now going on recent form, but it might be helpful (and possibly extremely painful and soul destroying 😂) to find out exactly what I am capable of.

So, I plan to log the next 10 weeks, I'm sure it will be pretty boring for the most part, but it might keep me accountable. And hopefully I can build on it and next year may be a more interesting year 🤞🤞🤞

Mr. Guappa

Fair play E... you are still racking up solid mileage given all that you have going on. Seems like you'll have a cracking base to build from next year. Best of luck with the next 10 weeks.

Swashbuckler

You and me have very similar lives! Great to see the log update. Did you run the border half last time out? Can you give any info on the route? Maybe you did a report..I must check.

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789391#Comment_119789391

Hi P. No, I have never run it. I've been meaning to stalk your Strava actually to see if you had but I hadn't got around to it (yet 😅). Any course info would be great but probably best to wait a few weeks (unless you have time to spare which I sincerely doubt!) as it's definitely not a definite right now!

Enjoy the supporting on Sunday. I'm jealous of you, I'd love to go up but it's my son's 10th birthday, so I'll be hosting a family gathering for him ahead of a week of Halloween & birthday celebrations - kids nowadays seem to really drag it out 😂

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119787608#Comment_119787608

Thanks A. If I can emulate your progress, I'll be very happy.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789964#Comment_119789964

Tell me about it. We've just been through 3 birthdays in the space of one month and straight into Halloween now. All those birthdays included double celebrations - one in Limerick and one at Nana and grandads!

I actually have never ran it. Thats why I was asking. Was hoping you would give me a walkthru on it. Below are my buddies splits from last year. I always find it hard to tell anything from these charts as the reality is always different

ariana`

Hmmmm it really doesn't look great does it! The only downhill section looks like it'd be too steep to really take advantage of and probably too late to bring much relief. Maybe I won't be able to can't make it 😂

Swashbuckler

Honestly the way things have been lately I've considered stepping back a bit...its all a little intense at the mo..taking it day by day though

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119793295#Comment_119793295

No harm P. You've been juggling a lot and admitted you've been breaking your own rule of building up too many parts of your life at the same time. If you ask me, it's the time of year for base building anyways - I mean who wants to race in December? Unless it's in a Santa suit giving out hi-5s! I'm not really sure why I'm getting a notion now to start focussed training - all the DCMers putting me to shame lol! Lots of aerobic miles and some thresholdy stuff, keep ticking over. A few weeks or months can make a big difference in work-life balance - at least get over the cold/flu season, it's been never ending in my house with biggish kids so I can imagine with littler ones it's even worse 🙄 Mind yourself.

Murph_D

Good to see this back up and running, and good luck with the training block. A half is a good idea - I think with any consistent base behind you it's always possible to scale up to a decent half performance so it will be good to see your progress. Good luck!

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119794483#Comment_119794483

Very true...and sensible.....

I'm very stubborn. Always clinging on to the good days as a sign that things are turning a corner. For example this week was rough Sunday and Monday and then good for the rest of the week. We'll see!

ariana`

I haven't settled on a plan, despite a good bit of reading over the last week+. Lots of books with dust on them were pulled out but nothing seemed to quite tick the boxes in terms of getting me excited to get stuck in but also suiting my schedule (weekday runs really need to fit into 55mins as I'm usually dropping the kid(s) to some form of after school activity and then bringing them home again). I'll plough on with logging even though it will most likely be fairly boring for the time being.

Week 1 of 10 ('til the end of 2022 that's all, no race 😅)

Monday: 5 * 5mins @ 7:52, 7:48, 7:49, 7:41, 7:47 (current CV pace), off 2' rec. These felt pretty comfortable for CV pace. Possibly should be a touch faster but for now I'm happier to have them a touch slow than to be straining for them.

Tuesday: 5 miles easy

Wed: No running, strength session.

Thursday: 3 * 9mins @ 8:06, 8:09, 8:01 (threshold pace), off 3' rec.

Friday: 5 miles easy after strength session

Saturday: 9 miles with a few easy-tempo intervals sprinkled throughout just to break it up a bit while keeping it feeling easy (8:35-8:55 for these)

Sunday: Rest - Felt like I ran a marathon with a kid's birthday and tracking all the amazing performances at DCM! Dying to read the race reports and get a better feel for the day. Was very tempted to sign up for 2023 during the day but on Monday when I got out of bed & went for my run, I was quite thankful not to have marathon legs, so I don't know right now. Also, it's gotten steep hasn't it and when you factor in travel & accommodation costs 🤷

34 miles for the week

Bluesquare

Think the DCM entry for 2023 only opens today ….,,,,,,,,Fair play still clocking up the miles with the iron issues and very busy family life your some woman .

There are always a few good spring half marathons floating around . Quite fancy Barcelona myself lol ( to escape busy family life ) .

Looking forward to following your log - deffo need some inspiration !!

Swashbuckler

Seems like a great time to have a bit of craic with some fun races. Would you consider this?

https://www.runtheline.ie/

As for training plans and your time constraints it's definitely manageable to build a training plan around 55mins limit during the week. Would you consider a coach? One session during the week which could easily fit into 55mins and a session and a long run at the weekend. That's assuming you can manage two weekend days. I haven't seen many books that tick all the boxes for me but Luke was excellent at building a plan around life. Most decent coaches are. Maybe have a chat with kellygirl too.

ariana`

Funny you should mention Trail running @Swashbuckler. I joined a Trail running group during the Summer and enjoyed a few runs with them but it's just very time consuming. I have to factor in minimum 2 hrs extra to drive to and from the meeting point for the runs. It's just not practical at the moment with the kids. It was fun though and definitely challenging in a very different way to road running.

Re. a coach yeah, I'd consider one again if I had a specific goal but right now, I'm not too long off the back coaching and I'm still enjoying the break and freedom. Though I know for me there's a fine line between freedom and over-thinking/paralysis by analysis, where running becomes unnecessarily stressful, so I need to watch that too.

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119796081#Comment_119796081

Thanks D. Yeah Half is a great distance alright. I usually do Kinvara Rock 'n' Road in March, it's not a particularly fast course but it's a really nice event. I've never done a notoriously fast HM though (like Charleville) so maybe that is something to think about for next year.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119818545#Comment_119818545

Thanks, running keeps me sane to be honest - and thankfully my OH realises that! Barcelona would be fab, it's definitely on my agenda to do more running tourism, it's just hard to do everything 😃 You should consider logging again for motivation!

Bluesquare

Yeah. - I find logging does keep me accountable when training for something . I don’t want to post that I went stupid fast on a slow run etc and get wrist slapped on here so keeps me honest !

I used to log to keep myself amused during the pre covid commute which thankfully I don’t do now .

If I can get some consistency going over next while I probably will and now I signed up for stupid DCM probably need that accountability !

ariana`

A busy week with mid-term, kids off school etc. Living close to the grandparents always means an influx of visitors when the schools close, great fun for all the kids of course making memories with their cousins, but I often struggle to get anything done with all the comings and goings. This week was no less chaotic than other midterms so definitely pleased with what I managed to sneak in. Ate & drank my way through the week but that's another story.

Week 2 of 10 ('til the end of 2022)

Monday (Halloween): 30min tempo @8:25min/m

Tues: Strength + 5m easy

Wed: Just strength.

Thurs: Strength + 4m easy

Fri: 5 * 3' @ 7:50, 7:48, 7:38, 7:41, 7:41 + 4 * 30s @ 6:41, 7:01, 6:58, 6:48

Sat: Nothing

Sun: 8.66m - a not so long, long run

32 miles for the week.

Another busy week ahead with 2 nights out 🙈 It's either a feast or a famine for me, I barely go anywhere for 6 months and then a rake of things come together 🙆‍♀️

Laineyfrecks

Oh god I hear you on the feast or famine with nights out, after practically doing nothing throughout my marathon training, all the way up to Christmas looks very busy for me👀... I'm sure I'll live🤣

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845350#Comment_119845350

We'll just have to struggle on, take one for the team 'n' all that 🤩😆 Probably not the best time for me to be getting bloods done to check my liver function though 🙄😲

ariana`

Week 3 of 10 ('til the end of 2022)

Pleased enough with this week again, I'm certainly not stretching myself but nor do I want to be with no specific goal in sight. I'm perfectly happy to trundle along for now and see where it gets me 😊

Monday: 20' continuous threshold @ 8:01 - lovely run

Tues: Nothing - a night out to celebrate DCM with some friends.

Wed: Easy + Strength.

Thurs: Nothing - a work night out

Fri: 5 * 5' @ CV pace (7:50, 7:53, 7:51, 7:52, 7:54). A little bit hungover but I enjoyed this all the same, a really nice night-time run. Also did strength earlier in the day.

Sat: Very easy/recovery run, legs were a little bit heavy for this but kept the HR nice and low.

Sun: 11m LR.

34 miles for the week.

ariana`

Any tips for goal setting or structuring a year without many races but still with enough focus to progress?

My goal to run a sub 4 marathon kept me going right through 2020/21 but since then I can't honestly say I've had the same focus. Racing often isn't an option (kids who now do 8 different sports between them & other non-sports after school activities & birthday parties etc etc). My other half does his share, but Saturdays & Sundays are chaotic trying to be in 3 different places with the kids as it is, so races are an inconvenience at best. Then every so often there's a random free day and a random local race that I wish I had trained for, if I'd known to plan ahead.

I think I need a "just enough" approach, whereby I am always fit enough to take on a 10k-10m-HM with short notice and accept not being in peak shape or getting PBs. But how does one go about this, do a 10K-HM plan back-to-back and pop in a mini-taper & recovery any time I can squeeze a race in? I'm thinking this is where having a coach would be really beneficial, but I can't justify it right now.

By the way I didn't come on here to whine, though you'd be forgiven for thinking I did 😳  For the last 5 years I've done the same race every March and it's one I love and look forward too, even when not at my fittest, it's a fixture I haven't missed. I was planning to target it next year and start a 13-week plan in a couple of weeks, but I've just realised I won't be able to make it and I'm gutted and feeling a bit meh about this whole running lark today. I'll probably be grand again by evening time if I get a little run done 😅



Swashbuckler

Ah the impossible question. I say impossible because the most sensible answer would probably be telling you to find a good coach and tell them your situation. I spent pretty much all of 2020 doing exactly what you are asking about under the guidance of Luke and it was probably one of my best years since I started running. Zero races, some time trials and very much building strength throughout the year.

I think this type of training doesnt lend itself very much to book plans. I also think most coaches struggle with this kind of request as a lot of them base training on goal races. That's one of the reasons I'll always sing Luke's praises - throw whatever you goal is at him and he always worked it - whether that be a goal race, or just strength building, or running an ultra or running 1500m.

None of the above really helps you though because I know any advice that doesnt give you the option of having something down on paper (a plan) means a lot of uncertainty on how to structure things.

From my own perspective, if I didnt have access to a good coach I would like spend a huge chunk of the year doing Lydiard style training but that isnt for everyone. Lydiard is very specific and certainly a lot of runners wouldnt like the approach. Murph had great success with it in Chicago. Lydiard stuff can be as long as you want it to be i.e. you could spend the bones of 30 odd months following his phases. Lydiard plans are available online.

When it comes to racing - I think runners can often overthink that side of things. Maybe forget about trying to be in peak shape for a race and just race whenever the opportunity comes up. Step back a bit on mileage and sessions the week of and just go race.