2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

Cash_Q

Obsolete01 it's disgraceful that they're coming after you for money they said you were eligible for.

The radio news headlines I heard about it weren't clear and I was thinking maybe people had falsified information to get the grant but your example is clear as day, they made a mistake and are now hounding you.

I really hope that you are successful in appealing this. That kind of money is no joke.

sightband

Obsolete01 wrote: »

I guess a big appeal will be made? I was thinking of going to the radio stations with it

You could try that fat slob Duffy but I’d say ‘de matematiks’ of it all would confuse him. There’s also serious questions over whether his own tax affairs are in order so I would doubt he wants to open that can of worms.

Toastytoes

vikas.kshatriya wrote: »

probably revenue online application wasn't stringent at the time, as they had just launched and revenue staff not totally aware of the rules. I am not on revenue side but guessing how things would have worked. Also revenue wouldn't have guessed the total number of people eligible to apply, probably now people count > money kept aside for this !!

i agree with sightband - never came across such rules in first place, following this since announced in 2016 budget.

They seem pretty adamant this wasn’t the case. But whatever happens as long as the information entered in to the system was correct then at least you can’t be accused of deliberately claiming it when you were ineligible.

Tbh I wouldn’t be relying on what someone said on the phone, the important thing is what you put down on your claim and declared it as true. That’s how self assessment works. You provide the details and declare it to be correct.

Colonel Claptrap

At the beginning when details were scant I called revenue twice, spoke to 2 different people in the same week and got 2 different answers to a query. It was a shambles.

When I got the answer I wanted, I asked for it in writing. They sent it as a message online so I printed it.

Toastytoes

https://www.ebs.ie/blog/2016/12/16-things-about-the-help-to-buy-scheme

This EBS blog post seems to have the relevant date rules back in December 2016

imelle

Hi, just started looking into this and I'm just wondering if you are building a house does it have to be completely built by 2019 or could you be finishing off the build in say 2020/2021? I won't be permanent until 2019 in my job so by the time I can qualify for a mortgage I'd imagine it would be unlikely to have a house built! Also if the house costs 250000 to build and you need 200000 does that mean you qualify for it. Thanks in advance

Michael D Not Higgins

imelle wrote: »

Hi, just started looking into this and I'm just wondering if you are building a house does it have to be completely built by 2019 or could you be finishing off the build in say 2020/2021? I won't be permanent until 2019 in my job so by the time I can qualify for a mortgage I'd imagine it would be unlikely to have a house built! Also if the house costs 250000 to build and you need 200000 does that mean you qualify for it. Thanks in advance

LTV must be at least 70%, in your example you mention the build cost but not the lender's valuation. Assuming this is close to the build cost then it will be over 70%.

For self builds, you must drawdown the first part of the mortgage before the cutoff date. You don't need to finish the build before cutoff.

Maisie789

Our approval expires in a few days and we still haven't claimed due to delays with contracts. What happens if it expires?

climber59

Maisie789 wrote: »

Our approval expires in a few days and we still haven't claimed due to delays with contracts. What happens if it expires?

You just claim again like before. It should be quicker this time though - in theory!

You can cancel it now and apply again rather than wait if you prefer, there's no difference.

We were in the same boat so we cancelled it and reapplied a couple of weeks ago. Have an approved claim until 31st December now.

Vote4Napoleon

Hi Guys,
My OH and i are in our direct labour self-build about 4 weeks now. We started late January 2017, can we retrospectively apply for the HTB scheme, our mortgage is €170,000 and an estate agent has said that our house is worth €240,000, which is just over the 70%.
Thanks in advance,
V4N.

Maisie789

climber59 wrote: »

You just claim again like before. It should be quicker this time though - in theory!

You can cancel it now and apply again rather than wait if you prefer, there's no difference.

We were in the same boat so we cancelled it and reapplied a couple of weeks ago. Have an approved claim until 31st December now.

Thanks a mill for responding. We've already sent approval screenshots/access codes etc to the builders solicitors, bank etc. Will this cause issues of we cancel and reapply?

climber59

Maisie789 wrote: »

climber59 wrote: »

You just claim again like before. It should be quicker this time though - in theory!

You can cancel it now and apply again rather than wait if you prefer, there's no difference.

We were in the same boat so we cancelled it and reapplied a couple of weeks ago. Have an approved claim until 31st December now.

Thanks a mill for responding. We've already sent approval screenshots/access codes etc to the builders solicitors, bank etc. Will this cause issues of we cancel and reapply?

I guess it depends on the individual bank, etc but we submitted our original claim documents when we went for full loan approval and just sent in the new ones and the new access code when the new one was approved - no problems.

sightband

Anyone know what happens if you get the 20k off revenue after being approved with 70+% LTV ratio and it’s paid to the developer and then you actually decide to go with another bank with -70% LTV mortgage and drawdown from that lender? Does revenue have some system in place to check this?

conf101

sightband wrote: »

Anyone know what happens if you get the 20k off revenue after being approved with 70+% LTV ratio and it’s paid to the developer and then you actually decide to go with another bank with -70% LTV mortgage and drawdown from that lender? Does revenue have some system in place to check this?

Don't you have to upload your loan offer to get the rebate?

I don't know if Revenue have a way of checking on it, but I would assume uploading a loan offer that's different to the mortgage you're taking out on the property would invalidate your claim and is probably fraud.

sightband

conf101 wrote: »

Don't you have to upload your loan offer to get the rebate?

I don't know if Revenue have a way of checking on it, but I would assume uploading a loan offer that's different to the mortgage you're taking out on the property would invalidate your claim and is probably fraud.

Yes, loan offer has to be uploaded and the way it is now that money is issued to the developer long before drawdown but there’s nothing stopping you from going to another lender subsequently and drawing down with totally different terms that would breach HTB conditions. So I’m wondering how if revenue have some way of ensuring that the original loan offer is drawn down. Possibly another oversight in the absolute nonsensical heap of shįte scheme that it is.

conf101

sightband wrote: »

Yes, loan offer has to be uploaded and the way it is now that money is issued to the developer long before drawdown but there’s nothing stopping you from going to another lender subsequently and drawing down with totally different terms that would breach HTB conditions. So I’m wondering how if revenue have some way of ensuring that the original loan offer is drawn down. Possibly another oversight in the absolute nonsensical heap of shįte scheme that it is.

Well if they do find out, you'll have invalidated the terms of the scheme so Revenue will be entitled to claim the money back and you'll be liable for interest and a fine.

I don't really see how it's an oversight on Reveue's part if you decide to break the agreed terms of the contract.

autumnbelle

Has anybody experienced huge delays with the application? I have applied months ago and it came up awaiting group membership confirmation on both of our revenue online pages and that both of us havent filed form 12 for 2017 both have been filed. Rang revenue and was told to cancel and reapply and the same is on it. Have sent enquiries through myenquiry and rang and getting nowhere.

Also when we do get approved, how does it work for self build?
Thanks

sightband

conf101 wrote: »

Well if they do find out, you'll have invalidated the terms of the scheme so Revenue will be entitled to claim the money back and you'll be liable for interest and a fine.

I don't really see how it's an oversight on Reveue's part if you decide to break the agreed terms of the contract.

That’s not what I asked, but please show me where in the terms it states that if you drawdown from another lender which breaches terms that revenue will be entitled claim the money back and liable for interest and a fine? This would indicate some degree of foresight by the department of finance and housing minister.

My point all along was it’s a gaping hole in this ludicrous scheme that is open to all sorts of abuse and was conjured up almost overnight by a very inept minister at the time who instead seems to have been rewarded for his incompetency to a position of promotion where he equally seems to be just as incompetent, on the fence about almost everything and only thinking about populist votes.

When this scheme ends next year it will be shoved under the carpet by the present administrators and laughed about in years to come akin to evoting machines. And yes, I got €20k as an FTB which I absolutely didn’t need.

danjomurray

Hoping someone can help me out here and sorry if its been asked 400 times, its a long thread and I read about 20 pages before I just decided to post.

Myself and my girlfriend have gone sale agreed on a house (yay!). We're trying to do the HTB scheme and revenue have been as useful as a glass hammer when we called.

We have an application code but no access code. On my GF's ROS it shows both of us, on my ROS it shows that I have applied by my GF hasn't confirmed membership of the group.

From what I understand the latter part of that isn't a problem, but if we have an application code should we also have an access code to give the builder and/or our solicitor? How long does it take to get the access code so you can move on to phase 2?

Sorry if this is a basic or stupid question, my head is melted with mortgage craic at this stage. Appreciate any help.

conf101

sightband wrote: »

That’s not what I asked, but please show me where in the terms it states that if you drawdown from another lender which breaches terms that revenue will be entitled claim the money back and liable for interest and a fine? This would indicate some degree of foresight by the department of finance and housing minister.

My point all along was it’s a gaping hole in this ludicrous scheme that is open to all sorts of abuse and was conjured up almost overnight by a very inept minister at the time who instead seems to have been rewarded for his incompetency to a position of promotion where he equally seems to be just as incompetent, on the fence about almost everything and only thinking about populist votes.

When this scheme ends next year it will be shoved under the carpet by the present administrators and laughed about in years to come akin to evoting machines. And yes, I got €20k as an FTB which I absolutely didn’t need.

I've no interest in going through the terms and conditions for you. It's no skin off my nose what you do.

You obviously have your own agenda in posing the question. You know well yourself that a LTV <70% doesn't qualify for the scheme. Claiming the rebate with an LTV <70% is an invalid claim.

Toastytoes

sightband wrote: »

That’s not what I asked, but please show me where in the terms it states that if you drawdown from another lender which breaches terms that revenue will be entitled claim the money back and liable for interest and a fine? This would indicate some degree of foresight by the department of finance and housing minister.

My point all along was it’s a gaping hole in this ludicrous scheme that is open to all sorts of abuse and was conjured up almost overnight by a very inept minister at the time who instead seems to have been rewarded for his incompetency to a position of promotion where he equally seems to be just as incompetent, on the fence about almost everything and only thinking about populist votes.

When this scheme ends next year it will be shoved under the carpet by the present administrators and laughed about in years to come akin to evoting machines. And yes, I got €20k as an FTB which I absolutely didn’t need.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/help-to-buy-incentive/can-revenue-claw-back-a-refund.aspx

I think you fall in to the ‘weren’t entitled’ category. Making a false declaration in the self assessment process is tax fraud.

sightband

Toastytoes wrote: »

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/help-to-buy-incentive/can-revenue-claw-back-a-refund.aspx

I think you fall in to the ‘weren’t entitled’ category. Making a false declaration in the self assessment process is tax fraud.

But I was entitled to the refund, and it has been paid, it is long gone. There’s been no false declaration and the process is over. All I have to do now to adhere to conditions is not rent or sell within 5 years.

Not sure where the confusion is here, I am trying to highlight a gaping flaw in the scheme, where am I wrong in saying this much?

The_Conductor

sightband wrote: »

But I was entitled to the refund, and it has been paid, it is long gone. There’s been no false declaration and the process is over. All I have to do now to adhere to conditions is not rent or sell within 5 years.

Not sure where the confusion is here, I am trying to highlight a gaping flaw in the scheme, where am I wrong in saying this much?

I don't understand how/why you imagine its a flaw in the system.
If you falsely self certify that you fulfill the requirements for the payment- Revenue can and will claim the money back, along with interest and penalties, period.

Scraggs

Revenue are actively persuing this atm, if you read back posts in the last fortnight about the HTB scheme you'll find links to articles reporting on it.

sightband

Scraggs wrote: »

Revenue are actively persuing this atm, if you read back posts in the last fortnight about the HTB scheme you'll find links to articles reporting on it.

If you read back posts I was posting on it, this was not what they were stating were the issues, it was the date frame of contract exchange and purchase to when the scheme was announced. Again, another area of what a nonsensical mess which was never thought through this scheme is.

sightband wrote: »

the irish times article seemed to suggest it was anyone who had exchanged contracts at the time the scheme was announced was not eligible. like you though i can’t get any specifics. if it is the case the criteria to qualify was as clear as mud as I had read every FAQ and detail made available and it seemed to be a free for all for any first time buyer within a certain time frame.

randomnumber1

Hi,

Just wondering how banks treat the help to buy scheme when dealing with mortgage applications.
In the case of first time buyers requiring a 10% deposit.....is the help to buy rebate considered part of the required deposit meaning that possibly just 5% is required in terms of actual savings?

Thanks

*FireCracker*

danjomurray wrote: »

Hoping someone can help me out here and sorry if its been asked 400 times, its a long thread and I read about 20 pages before I just decided to post.

Myself and my girlfriend have gone sale agreed on a house (yay!). We're trying to do the HTB scheme and revenue have been as useful as a glass hammer when we called.

We have an application code but no access code. On my GF's ROS it shows both of us, on my ROS it shows that I have applied by my GF hasn't confirmed membership of the group.

From what I understand the latter part of that isn't a problem, but if we have an application code should we also have an access code to give the builder and/or our solicitor? How long does it take to get the access code so you can move on to phase 2?

Sorry if this is a basic or stupid question, my head is melted with mortgage craic at this stage. Appreciate any help.

Access code is sent to you separately via My Enquiries.

It's not viewable with the main application.

Have you checked for it there?

*FireCracker*

randomnumber1 wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering how banks treat the help to buy scheme when dealing with mortgage applications.
In the case of first time buyers requiring a 10% deposit.....is the help to buy rebate considered part of the required deposit meaning that possibly just 5% is required in terms of actual savings?

Thanks

Yes.

That said, most lenders will want to see evidence of saving.

randomnumber1

*FireCracker* wrote: »

Yes.

That said, most lenders will want to see evidence of saving.

Great. Thanks

autumnbelle

Hi do any of you know the difference between your max relief available and application max relief please?
Also for self builds how does claiming the figure work