Journalism and cycling

tomasrojo

This is grimly predictable and quite embarrassing:

https://irishcycle.com/2019/06/25/vc19-car-industry-cannot-be-allowed-to-paint-its-vision-of-the-future-city-conference-told/comment-page-1/#comment-233311

Stan Dunne
June 25, 2019 at 11:00 pm

I did a double-take/jaw-drop today at VC19 when I spotted there amongst the exhibitors an RSA stand with a pile of high-viz vests for handing out.

Duckjob

Hurrache wrote: »

Since it was pedestrianised traffic was always allowed very early in the morning for deliveries, I'm sure some dopes have caught on to the fact they could use it as a short cut to somewhere during that period?

Goods vehicles only, up to 11am.

I would say 50% of traffic I saw were private cars.

Chips Lovell

tomasrojo wrote: »

That's the somewhat paradoxical thing: the authorities haven't done much in ages to facilitate cycling, but cycling has grown really a lot anyway, which is somewhat missed by that Guardian report. But it's pretty unpleasant in lots of places, and unnecessarily so. A lot of street redesign is needed, and quite a lot of on-street parking needs to go.

The report reminds me of something Mrs. Lovell was saying the other week. There was a report about the local elections here in the Economist and she remarked that whoever they have covering Ireland is really on the ball. In other words, when you read their Irish coverage, you recognise the country you live in. Whereas the Guardian, she said, always seemed to miss something or not really understand the issue.

The fact that they could run that piece and miss the single biggest thing of note, the massive increase in the number of cyclists over the past decade, is kind of stunning.

I'd agree that Dublin isn't perfect, but the picture that piece paints is very far removed from the reality of cycling here. If it were really so grim, why are so many people cycling now?

tomasrojo

Yeah, I find Dublin fine overall. However, unfortunately, where the conference centre is located has a lot of cycling-hostile streets leading to it, so I'm not surprised the delegates aren't very impressed.

When I say I find Dublin fine though, my route to work involves two sections where I get off and walk because one-ways and induction-coil traffic lights make the quieter route difficult in two places. Even these minor irritations add up.

tomasrojo

I think the impression the delegates seem to be getting (that whenever private cars/vans/trucks come into conflict with other transport modes, the other transport modes lose) is broadly very correct.

Duckjob

For me, and I'm sure many others, the acid test is : Would I feel comfortable to bring my kids with me around the city on bikes. On that test, Dublin fails badly.

It's that nut that politicians and planners need to crack if they want to unlock the real potential of bikes as a sustainable transport form, and see a real transformation of our cities. Just harping on about the benefits and saying "Go-on Go-on" to people won't cut it given the joke that is our current infrastructure.

tomasrojo

Duckjob wrote: »

For me, and I'm sure many others, the acid test is : Would I feel comfortable to bring my kids with me around the city on bikes. On that test, Dublin fails badly.

It's that nut that politicians and planners need to crack if they want to unlock the real potential of bikes as a sustainable transport form, and see a real transformation of our cities. Just harping on about the benefits and saying "Go-on Go-on" to people won't cut it given the joke that is our current infrastructure.

Yeah, depends on what age they were, but huge swathes of the city centre would be unsuitable, and you'd probably have to get off and walk around other bits; hard to get a coherent journey together. A lot of the suburbs are ok for local journeys though, if people don't mind your kids cycling on the footpath.

Herbert Tiemens mentions the cycling for all ages criterion and how far O'Connell Street falls short in his tweet quoted a page or two back.

Zillah

Duckjob wrote: »

For me, and I'm sure many others, the acid test is : Would I feel comfortable to bring my kids with me around the city on bikes. On that test, Dublin fails badly.

Honestly, I think we have Stockholm syndrome sometimes. I convince myself that cycling in Dublin is fine, but I say that as someone who has become accustomed to having to squeeze through 8 inch gaps and having buses and HGV's trying to kill me all the time, and it's only when I ask a question like the above or "How would my nervous housemate or my elderly mother feel about cycling this route?" that I suddenly remember this place is a nightmare.

Even the road surface is a debacle in most places, with crumbling tarmac, huge holes, ridges, and handfuls of grime and debris; and that just the unintentional stuff - my favourite is when a gutter, manhole, or other deathtrap is deliberately stuck prominently in the middle of the cycle lane, because shure it's not in the way of cars and therefore that's the problem dealt with.

My latest pet peeve is incompetent roadworks. Someone digs up a pipe, does their work, and then covers it up again, and I swear they were playing on Instagram with one hand while they filled the hole in, because it's about as smooth as a forest track. Is there no policy of inspection or review after this work is completed? It really seems they can do any old garbage work and move on without consequences after collecting their cheque from the council.

I did not expect this to turn into a rant that long.

magicbastarder

Zillah wrote: »

Even the road surface is a debacle in most places, with crumbling tarmac, huge holes, ridges, and handfuls of grime and debris

i was not impressed recently to see that the footpaths along griffith avenue are being replaced. they're actually in decent nick, but i can name multiple roads nearby where the cycle lanes are unusable for the above reasons.

tomasrojo

Zillah wrote: »

Honestly, I think we have Stockholm syndrome sometimes. I convince myself that cycling in Dublin is fine, but I say that as someone who has become accustomed to having to squeeze through 8 inch gaps and having buses and HGV's trying to kill me all the time

Yeah, my initial route to work took me over Rathmines bridge, down towards South Great Georges Street. I abandoned that route, because it was too much as you describe here.

Duckjob

Zillah wrote: »

Even the road surface is a debacle in most places, with crumbling tarmac, huge holes, ridges, and handfuls of grime and debris; and that just the unintentional stuff - my favourite is when a gutter, manhole, or other deathtrap is deliberately stuck prominently in the middle of the cycle lane, because shure it's not in the way of cars and therefore that's the problem dealt with.

It's funny when I hear cyclists being moaned about for not giving hand signals (along with the rest). To me it's just another example of people who really have no clue of what its like to cycle here.

Many's the time I've put out my hand to signal coming to a junction, only to hurriedly put it back on the handlebar because I see the state of the road surface I'm about to go over and I know I will be off the bike hitting the deck if I go over it one handed.

VeloCity my arse.

RobertFoster

Zillah wrote: »

My latest pet peeve is incompetent roadworks.

You reminded me of something I witnessed recently that annoyed me. For a couple of weeks there were roadworks being carried out in Ashbourne which resulted in the new-ish cycle track being dug up here. You have to dig where you have to dig, fine, I understand that, but what really irked me was the "Cycle Lane Closed" sign they put up. Instead of doing the sensible thing and putting it 200 m before the works where the last dished kerb is, they put the sign right at the works themselves forcing cyclists to either dismount and walk or lift the bike onto the road.

It's not a huge problem, but it's still hostile. Ah sure, they're only cyclists. I've never seen a driver forced into a cul-de-sac by roadworks with the only option to push the car onto a parallel road.

I saw similar on the Clontarf track (near 360 Cycles) when it had been recently finished. The shovel sniffer just stood watching myself and another cyclist trying to squeeze past each other and his van.

Chips Lovell

Zillah wrote: »

I say that as someone who has become accustomed to having to squeeze through 8 inch gaps and having buses and HGV's trying to kill me all the time

Seriously? That is not my experience of cycling in Dublin.

site_owner

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Seriously? That is not my experience of cycling in Dublin.

seriously? thats pretty much the experience of every other cyclist on this forum, on twitter and at the conference.

do you do most of your cycling on a set of rollers?

Thelonious Monk

site_owner wrote: »

seriously? thats pretty much the experience of every other cyclist on this forum, on twitter and at the conference.

do you do most of your cycling on a set of rollers?

He lives in Sutton and works in East Point

Chips Lovell

site_owner wrote: »

seriously? thats pretty much the experience of every other cyclist on this forum, on twitter and at the conference.

do you do most of your cycling on a set of rollers?

Have been cycling in and out of work for a decade. Current commute is 17km each way cross city. Have never in my life had to "squeeze through an 8 inch gap". Incidents with motorists happen on rare occasions but I've never come across anyone I believed was actually "trying to kill me". If that happened some of the time, let alone "all the time" I wouldn't cycle.

Weepsie

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Seriously? That is not my experience of cycling in Dublin.

Not least of all because I don't know of any handlebars that are merely 20cm wide. Unless they mean 8inch outside of the bars.

Budawanny

Think We will have to give some lessons in understanding and interpreting hyperbole here.

site_owner

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Have been cycling in and out of work for a decade. Current commute is 17km each way cross city. Have never in my life had to "squeeze through an 8 inch gap". Incidents with motorists happen on rare occasions but I've never come across anyone I believed was actually "trying to kill me". If that happened some of the time, let alone "all the time" I wouldn't cycle.

is what the other poster said true, that you only cycle on the s2s segregated cycle track from sutton to east point?

Chips Lovell

site_owner wrote: »

is what the other poster said true, that you only cycle on the s2s segregated cycle track from sutton to east point?

No. I think you're getting me mixed up with another forum regular. That's never been my commute.

site_owner

what roads do you cycle ? dont need to give away your location or privacy. just trying to get a sense of what you consider great and safe cycling infra.

surely you must understand, as a moderator of a large cycling forum, your assertions, flying in the face of internationlal experts and local testimony, that the streets of dublin are completely safe to cycle is difficult to take seriously

AndrewJRenko

Zillah wrote: »

Even the road surface is a debacle in most places, with crumbling tarmac, huge holes, ridges, and handfuls of grime and debris; and that just the unintentional stuff - my favourite is when a gutter, manhole, or other deathtrap is deliberately stuck prominently in the middle of the cycle lane, because shure it's not in the way of cars and therefore that's the problem dealt with.

My latest pet peeve is incompetent roadworks. Someone digs up a pipe, does their work, and then covers it up again, and I swear they were playing on Instagram with one hand while they filled the hole in, because it's about as smooth as a forest track. Is there no policy of inspection or review after this work is completed? It really seems they can do any old garbage work and move on without consequences after collecting their cheque from the council.

Is there any measure or standard of how smooth the road surface should be on completion of works?

blackwhite

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Zillah wrote: »

I say that as someone who has become accustomed to having to squeeze through 8 inch gaps and having buses and HGV's trying to kill me all the time

Seriously? That is not my experience of cycling in Dublin.

site_owner wrote: »

what roads do you cycle ? dont need to give away your location or privacy. just trying to get a sense of what you consider great and safe cycling infra.

surely you must understand, as a moderator of a large cycling forum, your assertions, flying in the face of internationlal experts and local testimony, that the streets of dublin are completely safe to cycle is difficult to take seriously

For instances of shifting goalposts, and pure, unashamed misrepresentation, this must be one of the most blatant instances on this forum in quite some time.



EDIT: I'm sure you can volunteer to us some examples of the "internationlal experts and local testimony" that tells us that cycling in Dublin is all "having to squeeze through 8 inch gaps and having buses and HGV's trying to kill me all the time"

Zillah

blackwhite wrote: »

"having to squeeze through 8 inch gaps and having buses and HGV's trying to kill me all the time"

As another poster mentioned, this is obviously hyperbole. For those who didn't inherit the hyperbole gene, it translates as "Cycling on the road in areas where the space available for a cyclist is smaller than what would being considered reasonable for a safe and comfortable cycling experience, and interacting with various large vehicles whose drivers either do not appear to be paying much attention or are compelled by road conditions to drive much closer to cyclists than would be deemed safe by a reasonable person."

It's not as pithy, though.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is there any measure or standard of how smooth the road surface should be on completion of works?

Certainly are not being enforced if there are!

Lumen

site_owner wrote: »

surely you must understand, as a moderator of a large cycling forum, your assertions, flying in the face of internationlal experts and local testimony, that the streets of dublin are completely safe to cycle is difficult to take seriously

Whose local testimony? There are loads of people on this forum who ride the streets of Dublin every day in a calm, relaxed and happy manner.

I have experienced fewer rage-y incidents on the bike than I do in my car. There is only one in the last 11 years that I can remember, and the first 8 years of that period I was doing around 130km a week in peak traffic, from Dublin 15 to the city centre.

"completely safe to cycle" is not very meaningful. Cycling on the road amongst other traffic requires some skill and patience, but so do many things, not least walking across the road, something that most people do without overly fretting about safety.

I would be nervous about my children cycling alone in the city centre, just as I would be nervous about them walking. Traffic is a hazard.

site_owner

Lumen wrote: »

Whose local testimony? There are loads of people on this forum who ride the streets of Dublin every day in a calm, relaxed and happy manner..

the most popular thread in the history of this forum is one place you could start...
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057720914

CramCycle

I find Dublin grand for the most part, it is not as good as it should be, it requires confidence and assertion in some parts but overall, and I've cycled in a good few cities, it is not the worst place to cycle. It has alot of room for improvement.
The litmus test, would I let my kids cycle here, then the answer is yes and no, once they show themselves competent, I would and will. I wouldn't trust my eldest to drive in our driveway but I would trust my youngest to cycle anywhere in Dublin.
Plenty of kids cycle everyday in Dublin without issue.
There is alot of work to be done, most of this is in traffic enforcement not infrastructure. The problem here and the modern world in general, if you tell authorities it is mediocre but there is huge room for improvement, all they here is it is grand, lets leave it. You tell them it is a death trap and they will lose votes from the dead bodies piling up, then they might, just might, do something.

site_owner

blackwhite wrote: »

For instances of shifting goalposts, and pure, unashamed misrepresentation, this must be one of the most blatant instances on this forum in quite some time.

you lost me

Lumen

site_owner wrote: »

the most popular thread in the history of this forum is one place you could start...
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057720914

Fair enough, I've never paid much attention to that thread.

I cannot explain why some people seem to have such bad luck, but it's not remotely like my own experience.

(oh, it's not actually the most popular thread, but I don't want to derail with pedantry)

blackwhite

site_owner wrote: »

you lost me

Given how you utterly failed to comprehend (or deliberately misrepresented to strawman) CL's post, that's not a bit surprising