RAW Superthread

Rock Lesnar

Lord TSC wrote: »

LOVED the Ambrose turn. It was the one night, the one moment, they could do it and catch people off guard

Was'nt it rumoured long before he came back that he was gonna turn heel and start a programme with Rollins.

Lord TSC

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

Was'nt it rumoured long before he came back that he was gonna turn heel and start a programme with Rollins.

And heavily teased for the last few weeks. The entire story has made it a case of when, rather than if, the turn was coming.

Which is my point. Everyone knew it was coming. But I reckon most would have thought they'd have held off last night. Given the two guys their tag title win, let them hug it out and dedicate the win to Roman.

Frank O. Pinion

Has a tag team that was ever a proper, actual established team won the tag titles, and then one turned on the other? Probably, I'm guessing, but I can't think of any.

Necro

Can I just say that Alicia Fox is the most annoying character of all time. Not sure if that's by design or not.

Rock Lesnar

Lord TSC wrote: »

And heavily teased for the last few weeks. The entire story has made it a case of when, rather than if, the turn was coming.

Which is my point. Everyone knew it was coming. But I reckon most would have thought they'd have held off last night. Given the two guys their tag title win, let them hug it out and dedicate the win to Roman.

I would say there was no better time to do it, as we said, everyone knew it was coming so what better time to get the "shock" value out of it then when they just won the belts.

Im just not a fan of Ambrose, i just find him like Orton, its the same mannerisms whether hes face or heel, although to be fair to them, a heel now is different to a heel i grew up watching, they can do nothing now to get heat compared to 30 years ago

Lord TSC

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

I would say there was no better time to do it, as we said, everyone knew it was coming so what better time to get the "shock" value out of it then when they just won the belts.

Im just not a fan of Ambrose, i just find him like Orton, its the same mannerisms whether hes face or heel, although to be fair to them, a heel now is different to a heel i grew up watching, they can do nothing now to get heat compared to 30 years ago

Yeah, thats fair. His last heel run was really bland.

I'm willing to give him a chance here though and see what they have in store for him. It feels like a proper "lunatic" character could do him wonders, and I thought last nights assault worked well. The DDT onto the concrete was vicious, for instance. And they will need to lean into that.

You have to imagine Brawn wins the title at Crown Jewel now, right? And given that, it looks like we're set up for Brawn vs Drew at the top of the card?

Thepoet85

Wow that's some news to wake up to. Best of luck to him, I hope to see him back soon.

JP Liz V1

Lord TSC wrote: »

And heavily teased for the last few weeks. The entire story has made it a case of when, rather than if, the turn was coming.

Which is my point. Everyone knew it was coming. But I reckon most would have thought they'd have held off last night. Given the two guys their tag title win, let them hug it out and dedicate the win to Roman.

Yes I didn't expect it last night after Roman's sad news and their win

SlickRic

an amazing speech by Roman. just brilliant, heartfelt, honest and full of character.

but leaving that to one side...

it has to be said that that episode showed off everything that can be right about pro wrestling, while making it clear exactly what has gone wrong with WWE creative.

it felt real. because it was.

and that's why the Ambrose turn was actually timed to perfection. so often WWE does these turns at a random time for no discernible reason. this was different. Ambrose is a fúcking asshole for doing that on this night of all nights. because there was a successful blur between fact and fiction. you knew it was 'fake', but it was 'real' at the same time. you wanted to hate him because he ruined a poignant moment with the Shield.

opportunities don't come along that often anymore to get real heat on someone.

it was perfect.

henryforde80

Best wishes to Roman but hopefully WWE now will push on.

I can see Cena coming back and been the poster boy.

Only watch the highlights on youtube lately. Hopefully this will be a chance to get it right. They really need to push anyone who is decent on the mike at this stage.

Lord TSC

SlickRic wrote: »

and that's why the Ambrose turn was actually timed to perfection. so often WWE does these turns at a random time for no discernible reason. this was different. Ambrose is a fúcking asshole for doing that on this night of all nights. because there was a successful blur between fact and fiction. you knew it was 'fake', but it was 'real' at the same time. you wanted to hate him because he ruined a poignant moment with the Shield.

Its more than that, in my opinion.

WWE have walked into possibly one of the best stories they've ever written.

Ambrose has always had issues with Rollins, dating back to when Rollins betrayed them. He never had issues with Reigns; Roman was his "brother", and Roman got on with Rollins. So when Dean comes back, he re-unites with the group.

The issues with Rollins have been teased for weeks. They made it clear that Ambrose had unresolved issues with Rollins, and the seeds were planted that Ambrose worried the only reason Rollins wanted him in the group was for Rollin's own personal gain.

But Roman was the peacemaker. Roman was the one who got between the two, and held the group together.

And then Roman gets sick. Horrifically sick.

Now, that's going to mess with Ambrose's head. He's unstable, he's got paranoid worries bubbling under the surface. He's upset, he's angry.

And then they get a tag title match, and he works with Rollins to honor Roman.

And they win. And what image does Ambrose see?

Rollins with not one but two titles. The man he worries is only using him for titles....just used him to become a double champion.

(Important note here; the fans know thats not true. We know Rollins isn't just using Ambrose, and have no reason to doubt his intentions.).

Ambrose snaps, and this time, there's no Roman left to calm them down.


That's a phenomenal story. I don't know if it's where WWE was going (obviously not), and I don't have much faith in them to carry the story they've walked into accidentally.

But from a long term narrative point of view, this is an incredible story they've been gifted. And the face/heel allignments aren't just solid, they are ****ing bulletproof, cause absolutely no one can forgive Ambrose for turning on Rollins last night. Thats why I adored Cole's call too when he started saying "Not tonight, of all nights." Even that achknowledges....we knew this was coming. Cole admits we knew that Ambrose was going to turn. But not last night.

nothingatall

Phenomenal story or not, I presume WWE will do what they always do and turn it into the dirt worst in record time.

Loughc

henryforde80 wrote: »

Best wishes to Roman but hopefully WWE now will push on.

I can see Cena coming back and been the poster boy.

Cena won't be back... not in a full time capacity anyway, his Movie career is really taking off so he'll need to be away more than he's there.

When I unlocked my phone this morning I went to read the Raw Spoilers but did the usual scan of social media, there I saw an Instagram post from The Miz and from first glance I read it that Roman had died, thankfully it was 7am so I just misread the post.

It's so sad for Roman to hear the leukemia has returned. I really hope not only does he beat it but he returns better than ever. He's still young wrestling wise so fingers crossed he's be back sooner rather than later.

It's so strange we picture these guys as larger than life characters, almost invincible, moments like this brings it all back to reality how fragile life is.


Moving on from Roman, from the highlights I seen and what I read that was a good Raw episode, although it did highlight everything we know already, in Vince's continuous attempt to get Roman over he's done damage to his other Main Eventers.

Braun and Drew will take over the charge from here for a bit, but after that then what? KO,Zayn,Finn all ruined. Ziggler is never going to be the guy.

Rollins was red hot earlier this year but keeping them down at IC level has cooled that heat, they've along way to go to rebuild the Raw brand, so it's interesting times ahead for WWE.

Loughc

Just an interesting thought on Ambrose's heel turn... where does this leave Reene?

Does she start justifying Dean's actions giving her a heel streak too? Or will they have her ignore the situation completely?

Given they acknowledged her relationship several times with Dean they surely can't ignore it? Right?

ERG89

Loughc wrote: »

Just an interesting thought on Ambrose's heel turn... where does this leave Reene?

Does she start justifying Dean's actions giving her a heel streak too? Or will they have her ignore the situation completely?

Given they acknowledged her relationship several times with Dean they surely can't ignore it? Right?

I think the only way you could make her a worse announcer is have her be as a heel as she comes across as naturally likeable which isn't very common.
I'm glad they turned Ambrose as it was expected since he returned even if I'd rather they not have won the tag titles moments before it.
Just as long as they keep Roman's name out of it....I feel given the company's past history one cannot rule it out.

Agent Coulson

Also is this the start of the rebuilding of Finn.


This opens up the Title picture and to be honest it needs to stay away from Brock and Braun.



Time for The Chosen One to finally become the One.

HandsomeBob

Given they're champs now I assume this won't be a cut and dry heel turn. I can see Rollins attempting to reconcile with a confused and unhinged Ambrose, but ultimately failing.

CastorTroy

Heyman was pretty emotional last night as well and thought he did a great job of going from talking about Roman to going into promoting the match. Though he could've chosen his words better. He went on about how Roman had to leave as he wouldn't be able to turn up every week as the champ should, yet we all know that's what will happen if Brock wins.

So Elias just turned face? Does that mean Graves will like his songs now? Always struck me as weird the commentator roles were reversed with him.

Didn't recognise Dana in her video at first.

J. Marston

CastorTroy wrote: »

Heyman was pretty emotional last night as well and thought he did a great job of going from talking about Roman to going into promoting the match. Though he could've chosen his words better. He went on about how Roman had to leave as he wouldn't be able to turn up every week as the champ should, yet we all know that's what will happen if Brock wins.

So Elias just turned face? Does that mean Graves will like his songs now? Always struck me as weird the commentator roles were reversed with him.

Didn't recognise Dana in her video at first.

Or foreshadowing him turning on Brock.

ERG89

Work on the generic promo generator has been progressing smoothly.
This may be one of the worst promos Angle has ever been a part of & there has been some competition , how he kept a straight face is beyond me.

The Nal

Bloke off screen whispering "Say "oh its true" at the end"

CastorTroy

Starts an hour earlier this week

PTH2009

Loved Heymens dig at matches been pre determined

Really hope Braun wins the title

Wonder could we see Drew Mcintrye win the title off him but lose it Rollins or Ambrose before Mania ???

Have too say love raw on at midnight. Wish it was this every week instead of 1am

PTH2009

Cena officially gone from the Crown Jewel world cup to be replaced by Bobby Lashley

I wonder is this planting the seeds for Cena vs Lashley down the line ??

Wow survivor series Ronda vs Becky Lynch

The Nal

PTH2009 wrote: »

Wow survivor series Ronda vs Becky Lynch

Ronda will be booed Reigns style now. I wonder how she'll react to it.

Rock Lesnar

The Nal wrote: »

Ronda will be booed Reigns style now. I wonder how she'll react to it.

I dont know about that, i reckon the crowd could side with becky

CastorTroy

I'd say duelling chants.
But if the majority sides with Becky, will WWE take notice or will it just be put down to being bizaaro?

It's a good job Cena didn't qualify for the World Cup, so they had that reason for cutting him.

Michaels looks like he's wearing a sleeping mask

J. Marston

I think it'll be a pretty even split for Ronda/Becky.

I thought Dana was Maryse in that backstage skit with Elias. Was wondering what was going on.

CastorTroy

Yeah she looks different these days. Or maybe just not used to seeing her out of ring gear or Titus Worldwide

Rock Lesnar

That last segment with the 4 lads was so horrendously bad, just rubbish