Women to go on strike in Poland over abortion law

Nomis21

Women to go on strike in Poland over abortion law...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/02/women-to-go-on-strike-in-poland-abortion-law

Poland wants to introduce an even more draconian abortion law than Ireland's.

Although it is unimaginable that an EU country would not allow a termination to save a Mother's life, it seems that Poland is considering passing a law that is actually doing just that.

Perhaps it is also time for the Women of Ireland to also initiate a strike over this Governments lack of action in holding a referendum on the eighth?

KingBrian2

Nomis21 wrote: »

Women to go on strike in Poland over abortion law...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/02/women-to-go-on-strike-in-poland-abortion-law

Poland wants to introduce an even more draconian abortion law than Ireland's.

Although it is unimaginable that an EU country would not allow a termination to save a Mother's life, it seems that Poland is considering passing a law that is actually doing just that.

Perhaps it is also time for the Women of Ireland to also initiate a strike over this Governments lack of action in holding a referendum on the eighth?

You also are part of the view that all women support abortion and all men oppose it. That is plainly true. Many Irishwomen come on tv advocating against abortion. So once again you are of the mistaken belief that this is a discrimination against Women position to hold.

Nomis21

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You also are part of the view that all women support abortion and all men oppose it. That is plainly true. Many Irishwomen come on tv advocating against abortion. So once again you are of the mistaken belief that this is a discrimination against Women position to hold.

Wrong.

I have supported abortion all my life and I have been male all of my life.

Sweetemotion

Nomis21 wrote: »

Wrong.

I have supported abortion all my life and I have been male all of my life.

Good for you. way to go Nomis21

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

Nomis21

I have never seen Abortion rights as a male versus female argument.

I see it more as a human rights versus religious dogma issue.

kneemos

Nomis21 wrote: »

I have never seen Abortion rights as a male versus female argument.

I see it more as a human rights versus religious dogma issue.

It's obviously a women's rights issue,unless you can manage an abortion through the head of your penis.

Sweetemotion

Nomis21 wrote: »

I have never seen Abortion rights as a male versus female argument.

I see it more as a human rights versus religious dogma issue.

Ok so. What if the man wanted the baby, but the girl didn't.

Zaph

Nomis21 wrote: »

Perhaps it is also time for the Women of Ireland to also initiate a strike over this Governments lack of action in holding a referendum on the eighth?

I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to help. Maybe it could be feasible in the public sector, but I can't see too many private sector companies being supportive of large portions of their staff striking over a social issue that has nothing at all to do with the terms of their employment. If some employers really wanted to play hardball there could be a lot of women suddenly finding themselves on the dole.

questionmark?

kneemos wrote: »

It's obviously a women's rights issue,unless you can manage an abortion through the head of your penis.

It's a human rights issue not just a woman issue!!

Nomis21

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Ok so. What if the man wanted the baby, but the girl didn't.

I have seen this situation happen to a male friend of mine, but I still supported his girlfriend. It is her body and she would be the primary carer of any child.

volchitsa

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Ok so. What if the man wanted the baby, but the girl didn't.

What would you suggest he should be legally able to do to make her carry his baby? Have her physically restrained?

kupus

Welcome to the real world where people have different opinions to you.

Nomis21

Zaph wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to help. Maybe it could be feasible in the public sector, but I can't see too many private sector companies being supportive of large portions of their staff striking over a social issue that has nothing at all to do with the terms of their employment. If some employers really wanted to play hardball there could be a lot of women suddenly finding themselves on the dole.

Are there not women who are prepared to lose their job to support human rights?

Men too I think, although in Poland it seems to be very much a female issue by reading this article.

Sweetemotion

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

My own opinion is.

If it's going to put the mothers live in danger then yes.

If the baby will be still born then yes.

If the baby wont survive then yes.

If the baby is created by two consensual then no.

kneemos

questionmark? wrote: »

It's a human rights issue not just a woman issue!!

Wouldn't agree I'd see it solely as a women's issue.

Zaph

Nomis21 wrote: »

Are there not women who are prepared to lose their job to support human rights?

Men too I think, although in Poland it seems to be very much a female issue by reading this article.

It's not a case of whether or not they're prepared to lose their jobs over a human rights issue, but more a case of whether they can afford to do so. I'd wager that that would be the deciding factor more than anything else, and so I can't see too many following the Polish women's example.

ArtSmart

Zaph wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to help. Maybe it could be feasible in the public sector, but I can't see too many private sector companies being supportive of large portions of their staff striking over a social issue that has nothing at all to do with the terms of their employment. If some employers really wanted to play hardball there could be a lot of women suddenly finding themselves on the dole.

the what now?

Mass strikes have happened over different issues through recent (100 yrs) history in Ireland.

Employers being supportive of such action, would be....well...let's say rare.

Whether there would be enough public support or major support from workers is a different matter.

Although I suspect if Ireland tried to 'pull a Poland' (:D) as per the OP info, there may well be a mass strike.

Nomis21

Sweetemotion wrote: »

My own opinion is.

If it's going to put the mothers live in danger then yes.

If the baby will be still born then yes.

If the baby wont survive then yes.

If the baby is created by two consensual then no.

What about created by two consensual and then the mother is deserted by the partner?

MeatTwoVeg

Sweetemotion wrote:

Ok so. What if the man wanted the baby, but the girl didn't.

Well in that case, the man's opinion is essentially meaningless.

Nomis21

ArtSmart wrote: »

the what now?

Mass strikes have happened over different issues through recent (100 yrs) history in Ireland.

Employers being supportive of such action, would be....well...let's say rare.

Whether there would be enough public support or major support from workers is a different matter.

Although I suspect if Ireland tried to 'pull a Poland' (:D) as per the OP info, there may well be a mass strike.

I think it's a mistake by the Poles to make it a feminist issue.

Sweetemotion

volchitsa wrote: »

What would you suggest he should be legally able to do to make her carry his baby? Have her physically restrained?

Personally no. I wouldn't make him have her physically restrained.

Just curious about the op though.

He doesn't see it a man v womans right. Why would he pick the womans right?

Nomis21

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Personally no. I wouldn't make him have her physically restrained.

Just curious about the op though.

He doesn't see it a man v womans right. Why would he pick the womans right?

It's exactly the reason I don't think it's a man versus woman argument that allows me not to take a view that SOME people think is a man's view on the subject.

Human rights issues should not become feminist issues regardless of the subject.

Abortion is a human rights issue.

volchitsa

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Personally no. I wouldn't make him have her physically restrained.

Just curious about the op though.

He doesn't see it a man v womans right. Why would he pick the womans right?

Because unless we're going to actually force the woman to carry the baby, the man's wishes are irrelevant. It's her body, how is he going to make her do it if she refuses?

Nomis21

volchitsa wrote: »

Because unless we're going to actually force the woman to carry the baby, the man's wishes are irrelevant. It's her body, how is he going to make her do it if she refuses?

He will do it perhaps by threatening to leave her if she has an abortion.

Sweetemotion

Nomis21 wrote: »

He will do it perhaps by threatening to leave her if she has an abortion.

yes all men are evil.

volchitsa

Nomis21 wrote: »

He will do it perhaps by threatening to leave her if she has an abortion.

Or if she doesn't.

Basically I don't think outsiders can get involved in someone else's personal relationships to that extent, and however unpleasant the behaviour may be, it's not the same as forcing someone physically.

(I presumed when the question was asked just now, some element of legal backing to the man's wishes was envisaged. It doesn't make much sense.p otherwise. You can't stop someone from leaving their partner, can you?)

Sweetemotion

volchitsa wrote: »

Because unless we're going to actually force the woman to carry the baby, the man's wishes are irrelevant. It's her body, how is he going to make her do it if she refuses?

I actually get this.

But when you have the like of the op shouting.

"It's mens rights. It's humans rights, and I'm a male"

Just screams like, look at me aren't I great.

KingBrian2

Nomis21 wrote: »

Wrong.

I have supported abortion all my life and I have been male all of my life.

My error I meant to say untrue. That completely messed up what I was trying to say.:o

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

MeatTwoVeg

Nomis21 wrote:

He will do it perhaps by threatening to leave her if she has an abortion.

He sounds flaky. She can do better.

Nomis21

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

He sounds flaky. She can do better.

Yes, exactly

RDM_83 again

Even if your pro-life the way the polish government has gone about this is not good in terms of the way they have pushed this through.
Its a good governance issue too.

RobertKK

Supporting the lives of all is a human right.

The Wolverine

I've often thought of the her body her choice thing when it comes to say the woman wanting it but the man not wanting it.

I don't know really what a man can do if he wants a child and the mother doesn't I suppose break up is the only option really.

It would never happen but say if a law came in where the man could sign a document (say it must be before the birth is registered) saying he wished for a termination and the mother didn't where it means he signs away all rights to the child and cannot be pursued for maintenance or look for any attempt to be a father in future.

Would many be for that I wonder?

Nomis21

The Wolverine wrote: »

I've often thought of the her body her choice thing when it comes to say the woman wanting it but the man not wanting it.

I don't know really what a man can do if he wants a child and the mother doesn't I suppose break up is the only option really.

It would never happen but say if a law came in where the man could sign a document (say it must be before the birth is registered) saying he wished for a termination and the mother didn't where it means he signs away all rights to the child and cannot be pursued for maintenance or look for any attempt to be a father in future.

Would many be for that I wonder?

If there was to be such a document then it would be better if he signed that document before having sex with the woman and see what his chances were...

The Wolverine

Nomis21 wrote: »

If there was to be such a document then it would be better if he signed that document before having sex with the woman and see what his chances were...

But we often hear how abortion should be available for women as protection doesn't always work, so why not similar for a man is what's I'm getting at.

The Wolverine

Nomis21 wrote: »

Yes, exactly

How he can be labeled as bad and she can do better if he wants to leave her if she has an abortion? Is he meant to just shut his mouth and agree with it?

If she wants one it's her choice and fair enough but in no way is he bad if leaves her cause she aborts their child.

Grayson

The Wolverine wrote: »

But we often hear how abortion should be available for women as protection doesn't always work, so why not similar for a man is what's I'm getting at.

Because there are risks in having a baby and there are even risks (although smaller than colonoscopies) in having a termination.

Plus can you imagine any law where you force any person to undergo a medical procedure against their will.

The Wolverine

Grayson wrote: »

Because there are risks in having a baby and there are even risks (although smaller than colonoscopies) in having a termination.

Plus can you imagine any law where you force any person to undergo a medical procedure against their will.

But I haven't mentioned zero of that? I wouldnt want a woman forced to have or abort.

If she wants to have it, her risk. If she wants to terminate her risk.

What I'm saying is a hypothetical if the man doesn't want it and she does she's willing to take the risk of pregnancy you mention but he can sign away all responsibility pre birth aka maintenance and any future parental rights if he changes his mind.

As if a woman keeps a child a man doesn't want he still has to pay for maintenance.

If she wants it and he doesnt, sign a declaration saying they've discussed it and she wishes to keep it and he doesnt, sign away his rights. If she doesn't want it and he does well you can't force her to abort so he'll unfortunately just have to grieve as break up is the only real option in that case.

Of course theres the issues where loads of lads sign away parental rights and the state has to cough up I suppose an interesting one.

keeponhurling

We cannot have mass strikes every time a political decision needs to be made.

It would be shooting oursevles in the foot, and ironically gives politicans one more problem to deal with - so not likely to speed things up really.

omen80

The simplest solution would be to just make it legal to have an abortion. If people are against it then they don't have to have one.

keeponhurling

omen80 wrote: »

The simplest solution would be to just make it legal to have an abortion. If people are against it then they don't have to have one.

genius, can't believe that nobody ever thought of that before.

And to think this national debate has raged for decades.

omen80

keeponhurling wrote: »

genius, can't believe that nobody ever thought of that before.

And to think this national debate has raged for decades.

I'll get my coat....

Annasopra

Nomis21 wrote: »

I think it's a mistake by the Poles to make it a feminist issue.

It has always been a feminist and a human rights issue.

Annasopra

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Fair point but then in some ways the Dunnes Stores Apartheid strikers shows strikes can also affect wider public policy.

KingBrian2

Well the strike did do what it was meant to do, namely gain attention to the issue of abortion. As no legislation has yet been passed it still has not solved the issue either. It won't happen until the TD's elected or any politician elected are elected on an abortion platform.

chopperbyrne

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland#Religion

Not surprising considering they're even more Catholic than Ireland.

posturingpat

Seems like this might turn into a debate on Abortion in Ireland again so i think this highly respected journalists article sums it up as well as any http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/09/29/poll-are-you-a-baby-killer-or-a-religious-facist/

ceadaoin.

Abortion isn't a women's issue now? Ffs

Yes it's a human rights issue too, the rights of women to have bodily autonomy and not be treated as incubators. It is not a male issue and never should be

arayess

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Abortion isn't a women's issue now? Ffs

Yes it's a human rights issue too, the rights of women to have bodily autonomy and not be treated as incubators. It is not a male issue and never should be

if the child is a man's child then yes it is.
his future and emotional wellbeing are tied up in this as well as a women.
it's for both parties.


your logic is bizarre....could a man expand that argument in family court and say children/child birth is a woman thing so he shouldn't pay maintenance....??
no I don't hear feminists/ liberals championing that ...oddly enough..