India vs Pakistan near war?

Cheerful Spring

Both Countries nuclear powers and have fought 3 wars since 1947..

Tensions occurred over a week ago when Pakistan backed militants attacked an Indian army base and killed 18 soldiers. The Indian government this week targeted these militants with a surgical strike inside Pakistan controlled Kashimir. The war talk between two countries is very high. Today both countries are shelling each other across the border.

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?


http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/01/asia/kashmir-tensions-evacuations/

The_Valeyard

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Both Countries nuclear powers and have fought 3 wars since 1947..

Tensions occurred over a weeks ago when Pakistan backed militants attacked an Indian army base and killed 18 soldiers. The Indian government this week targeted these militants with a surgical strike inside Pakistan controlled Kashimir. The war talk between two countries is very high. Today both countries are shelling each other across the border.

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?


http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/01/asia/kashmir-tensions-evacuations/

Both sides have the bomb. Either side uses it, other side launches all theirs. So no, no nukes be used. It's M.A.D.

RobertKK

Hillary Clinton needs to give both India and Pakistan a reset button.

Or maybe not, she gave the Russian foreign minister a reset button and not long after, Crimea was annexed.

Both sides will have skirmishes, but that will be it. Each side has too much to lose.

suicide_circus

be grand

...And Justice

I'd love an Indian and a few popadoms and bit of naan bread right now.
Feck you op.

Parachutes

Even a regional nuclear war between Pakistan and India would be enough to cause Nuclear Winter and destroy 25% of the world's food supply. About half a billion people would die.

MadYaker

No way will they nuke each other. I doubt it'll even turn into a full blown conflict. Pakistan are an ally of the US and they wouldn't allow it.

Melodeon

Things have been a bit... odd... on the Pakistan/India border for quite some time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagah_border_ceremony

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-6vyQugw4

jimmy blevins

A basket case like Pakistan should never have been allowed nukes while Iran gets sanctions just for attempting to start a nuclear program.

Slydice

Wow, none of you joined boards.ie before 2010. :eek: (scribbles new entry into feeling-old journal)

Anyway, I always understood India Pakistan to have been 'near war' or indeed 'either near or at war' since Pakistan first came into existence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_wars_and_conflicts

The nuclear bit came in 1971:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_wars_and_conflicts#Nuclear-arms_race

...And Justice

Slydice wrote: »

Wow, none of you joined boards.ie before 2010. :eek: (scribbles new entry into feeling-old journal)

Anyway, I always understood India Pakistan to have been 'near war' or indeed 'either near or at war' since Pakistan first came into existence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_wars_and_conflicts

The nuclear bit came in 1971:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_wars_and_conflicts#Nuclear-arms_race

I feel old ..

Hande hoche!

Would imagine if it does escalate, it being closer to the Kargil War. Localised conflict rather than a full blown war.

Winterlong

Give the amount of red tape the indian government puts in the way of doing the most basic of things I doubt they will be firing any missiles in our lifetime.

Gatling

Fortunately this happens every few years they will take a few potshots at each other and in a few weeks it will be forgotten.

There will be no nukes or end of the world scenarios .

Capt'n Midnight

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?

No.

AFAIK neither has a deployable Neutron-Bomb


They have Atomic-Bombs and Boosted Fission weapons

But the clincher is that India probably has a few Hydrogen Bombs and apart from Karachi most major cities in Pakistan are a bit too close to the border for comfort. The corresponding area on the Indian side is the Thar Desert.

Further north it's more symmetrical. But the nuclear option is water. Rivers like the Saraswati have changed their routes in the past. Look at what the Ataturk dam did to water in Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Waters_Treaty

Junkyard Tom

Melodeon wrote: »

Things have been a bit... odd... on the Pakistan/India border for quite some time: YOUTUBE/ON-6vyQugw4

This is just proves that us humans share 99% of our DNA with Chimps.

darkpagandeath

Gatling wrote: »

Fortunately this happens every few years they will take a few potshots at each other and in a few weeks it will be forgotten.

There will be no nukes or end of the world scenarios .

That sounds like MSM western propaganda Gat.

darkpagandeath

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This is just proves that us humans share 99% of our DNA with Chimps.

Junkyard Tom

darkpagandeath wrote: »

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmX7K8noikE

So obvious there's a chimp inside that suit pretending to be a human acting like a chimp.

Donald Trump

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?

You mean like the bould Gerry

take everything

Melodeon wrote: »

Things have been a bit... odd... on the Pakistan/India border for quite some time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagah_border_ceremony

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-6vyQugw4

I love that.
Christ the human race is pathetic.

Wanderer78

take everything wrote:

I love that. Christ the human race is pathetic.

Wait till we start setting off nuclear weapons and start causing irreversible environmental damage, oh wait!

pickarooney

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Both Countries nuclear powers and have fought 3 wars since 1947..

Tensions occurred over a week ago when Pakistan backed militants attacked an Indian army base and killed 18 soldiers. The Indian government this week targeted these militants with a surgical strike inside Pakistan controlled Kashimir. The war talk between two countries is very high. Today both countries are shelling each other across the border.

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?


http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/01/asia/kashmir-tensions-evacuations/

Whatever about a war I really hope neither of them would stoop to using racist language.

learn_more

Bollywood.

The way they pretend to be ....


Ooops, ....

Harvey Normal

I wonder how much of that military silliness is derived from Victorian British or European military traditions. I think the trumpet and the military moustache definitely. Not sure about the walks though.

delly

In would worry me to see military professionals act in such a way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e_abTfvaqc

Capt'n Midnight

Harvey Normal wrote: »

I wonder how much of that military silliness is derived from Victorian British or European military traditions. I think the trumpet and the military moustache definitely. Not sure about the walks though.

The walks too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8

see also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Silly_Walk_Gait.jpg

Subcomandante Marcos

India is more likely to end up at war, or at least a cold war, with China than Pakistan.

India and China have a very long running dispute in the north east over where the border actually is and the Chinese government's funding and training of communist malitias. There are areas in the mountains which the Indian Government has no real control over.

Gets feck all international attention though.

BoJack Horseman

There will be no war....

Pakistan may bluster, but they are unlikely to be shocked over strikes on lawless terrorists coming in from Kashmir.

Besides, both countries are joining the Shanghai cooperation organisation in a few months.
Calmness will prevail.

Subcomandante Marcos

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

There will be no war....

Pakistan may bluster, but they are unlikely to be shocked over strikes on lawless terrorists coming in from Kashmir.

Besides, both countries are joining the Shanghai cooperation organisation in a few months.
Calmness will prevail.

Poor Mongolia all left out of the party in their logo.

Someday the great Khan shall rise again the the horde shall reclaim what is rightfully theirs!

Capt'n Midnight

India has a no first strike policy for nukes. But they have a ballistic missile sub on trials, and all the big tests have been done, and a second one on the way.

The last thing Pakistan needs is to loose a real shooting war with India because the first item on the peace treaty will be allowing a couple of dams on the Indus and it's tributaries. Once they are in place India can produce droughts or floods until Pakistan plays ball. Diverting that water into old river valleys would allow greening of part of the Thar Desert, unless they go the whole hog of sending the water eastwards via even older river paths.

keeponhurling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The walks too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8

see also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Silly_Walk_Gait.jpg

Don't forget Max Wall!

HensVassal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Both Countries nuclear powers and have fought 3 wars since 1947..

Tensions occurred over a week ago when Pakistan backed militants attacked an Indian army base and killed 18 soldiers. The Indian government this week targeted these militants with a surgical strike inside Pakistan controlled Kashimir. The war talk between two countries is very high. Today both countries are shelling each other across the border.

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?


http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/01/asia/kashmir-tensions-evacuations/

Hate that stupid phrase "surgical strike". Coined to make it sound like the bombing is hyper-accurate in killing enemy militants when most of the time they blow wedding parties to bits.

positron

There won't be an India-Pakistan war as such, but the situation isn't going to go away either. Pakistan is in the process of turning into another Afghanistan or Iraq. They participated in the Cold War to their benefit, now they are reaping it's ugly rewards (rise of extremism, corruption etc). India has a bit of problem to deal with for many decades to come.

wes

The Indian military have been raping and murdering civilians in Kashmir for years, and the tension in Kashmir is caused by themselves. Pakistan is a convenient scapegoat for the mess they have made in Kashmir. People generally don't like you, when you use rape and murder to enforce state policy.

Pakistan caught an Indian Naval officer in Baluchistan, whom the Indians claimed is "retired". In all likelihood they are backing militants in that region. There mass murdering Prime Minister has said as much.

Also, there increasing there nuclear arsenal, which will result in China and Pakistan doing the same.

Both sides have been backing terrorists/militants for years, and have been trying to one up the other. Nuclear war while unlikely is not out of the question. All, it would take is some of the people that both sides are backing or even perceived to be backing (as both side will blame the other, regardless of the facts), to do something stupid, and things could easily snow ball from there.

This isn't a case of one side ramping up tensions for no reason, but rather there are 2 belligerents, with poor Kashmir caught in the middle of the pointless pissing contest.

Letree

I can only imagine the refugee numbers entering Europe if those two countries went to war

TerrorFirmer

It's a war Pakistan really can't win no matter what happens. Similar amount of nuclear weapons on both sides but Pakistan is a much smaller country and it's military is nowhere near as powerful, modern or large as India's.

If it all came down to it and nuclear weapons were used, Pakistan would still ultimately lose and has nothing to gain from starting either a nuclear or conventional war.

positron

wes wrote: »

The Indian military have been raping and murdering civilians in Kashmir for years, and the tension in Kashmir is caused by themselves. Pakistan is a convenient scapegoat for the mess they have made in Kashmir. People generally don't like you, when you use rape and murder to enforce state policy.

Pakistan caught an Indian Naval officer in Baluchistan, whom the Indians claimed is "retired". In all likelihood they are backing militants in that region. There mass murdering Prime Minister has said as much.

Sounds like what you would expect an India-hating extremist Pakistani to say - biased and full of smoke and mirrors.

The Amnesty link you posted states six Indian Army personnel was sentenced for extra-judicial killing of three civilians. If anything it goes to show that India is managing to run a justice system even with all the across-the-border infiltration from Pakistani side, where Pakistan's ministers and officials have declared many times over that they support. Kashmir has been suffering since the Pakistani tribesmen started their invasion and looting which left the king with no choice but to join India. Even that didn't stop the extremist Muslims there killing the Hindu Pandits of that region which eventually lead to hundreds of thousands of them fleeing the region. From then on Pakistan has been instigating violence in the area, support, training, planning and executing covert and overt operations against India. It even resulted in three wars, all of which started by Pakistan, won by India.

Yet, Indian side of Kashmir has free and fair elections, freedom or religion, freedom of expression etc (except for the extremist Muslims trying to ruin it for everyone). Pakistan and Pakistan-based terror organisations on the other hand have been responsible for dozens of terror attacks across India, and over and again, Indian reaction has been controlled and diplomatic. I personally think they are doing the right thing now - trying to take out the terrorist bases in POK, well Pakistan isn't doing it anyway.

Mass murderer Prime Minister - come on please! Read up on the Justice system of India and how allegations can be put up against any one and objected and how the system slowly but surely works - Modi was cleared a long time ago.

If we are just mud-slinging, lets not forget who was sheltering Osama Bin Laden all those years! :rolleyes:

i initially thought this was a joke when i heard it but in the current context who knows how it'll be taken

Pigeon arrested in India carrying message for prime minister
Border guards detain bird after suspecting it of being Pakistani agent

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/pigeon-arrested-in-india-carrying-message-for-prime-minister-1.2814801

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/04/pigeon-indian-police-detain-bird-carrying-note-threatened-narendra-modi

josip

take everything wrote: »

I love that.
Christ the human race is pathetic.

I've been on both sides of that border and attended the border closing.
You can say the human race is pathetic, but the ceremony is an important part in keeping a lid on tensions between the two countries.
In much the same way that international sporting events allow national rivalry/hatred to be expressed in a non-fatal way.
The symmetry of the event on both sides could not be achieved without co-operation between Pakistan and India.
Notice the handshake at 2:22
The part I remember was the shouting match where a soldier from each side tries to maintain a shout longer than the other side.
Went on for about half a minute and Pakistan lost the day I was there.

After the ceremony Indian and Pakistani families went 50 metres to the north where there was a trig point marking the border with no fence/gate/landmines. They stand 3 metres apart chatting to each other.
These were cousins who were separated when the Punjab was divided in 1947.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

BoJack Horseman

ed1604 wrote: »

i initially thought this was a joke when i heard it but in the current context who knows how it'll be taken

Pigeon arrested in India carrying message for prime minister
Border guards detain bird after suspecting it of being Pakistani agent

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/pigeon-arrested-in-india-carrying-message-for-prime-minister-1.2814801

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/04/pigeon-indian-police-detain-bird-carrying-note-threatened-narendra-modi

Speckled Jim!

BoJack Horseman

take everything wrote: »

I love that.

It's been improved upon as well.

wes

positron wrote: »

Sounds like what you would expect an India-hating extremist Pakistani to say - biased and full of smoke and mirrors.

Sounds like something a typical of a pro-rape Hindutva supporter would say :rolleyes:. I can engage in childish insults too you know.

positron wrote: »

The Amnesty link you posted states six Indian Army personnel was sentenced for extra-judicial killing of three civilians.

I posted the wrong link, buts its a well established fact:

RAPE IN KASHMIR

Here is Salman Rushdie talking about it as well:

The phrase of "crackdown" that the Indian army uses really is a euphemism of mass destruction. And rape. And brutalisation. That happens all the time. It's still happening now.

Is he a Pakistani extremist?

positron wrote: »

If anything it goes to show that India is managing to run a justice system even with all the across-the-border infiltration from Pakistani side, where Pakistan's ministers and officials have declared many times over that they support.

Armed Forces Special Powers Act says otherwise. Doesn't just apply to Kashmir either.

positron wrote: »

Kashmir has been suffering since the Pakistani tribesmen started their invasion and looting which left the king with no choice but to join India.

Local Tribesman fought against the King as well, in revenge for you know skinning people alive in the past.

positron wrote: »

Even that didn't stop the extremist Muslims there killing the Hindu Pandits of that region which eventually lead to hundreds of thousands of them fleeing the region.

Attacks on the Pandits are of course awful, and all effort should be made for there return to there homes.

However, lets not pretend the violence was one way. Plenty of refugees fleeing rape and murder at the hands of the Indian army. Plenty of Kashmiri Muslims have fled to the other side of Kashmir as well. All refugees should be able to return home, and be free of any violence against them.

positron wrote: »

From then on Pakistan has been instigating violence in the area, support, training, planning and executing covert and overt operations against India. It even resulted in three wars, all of which started by Pakistan, won by India.

You will find the rape and murder by the Indian army is what causes the violence. Trying to blame everything on Pakistan is typical nonsense, as is your continued denial of Indian state violence, which doesn't exist according to you. Disgusting position to take.

positron wrote: »

Yet, Indian side of Kashmir has free and fair elections, freedom or religion, freedom of expression etc (except for the extremist Muslims trying to ruin it for everyone).

Armed Forces Special Powers Act tells a different story. Again, rape and murder by the Indian state is a regular occurrence. Your denial doesn't change this fact.

Oh and here is an example of your "freedom of expression":
My Kashmir newspaper has been shut down, and I’m not surprised

You have an interesting interpretation of "freedom of expression", in that your interpretation means the exact opposite of the actual meaning.

positron wrote: »

Pakistan and Pakistan-based terror organisations on the other hand have been responsible for dozens of terror attacks across India, and over and again, Indian reaction has been controlled and diplomatic. I personally think they are doing the right thing now - trying to take out the terrorist bases in POK, well Pakistan isn't doing it anyway.

The current Indian Prime Minister is responsible for an Anti-Muslim pogrom, and as I pointed out earlier, an India spy was arrested in Baluchistan. India has been happy to support terror, when it suits them as well. Again, denial as per usual. BTW, I never denied Pakistan's support of terrorist or militants. Both sides have been at that nonsense for year. Unlike you, I have the decency not to deny the facts.

positron wrote: »

Mass murderer Prime Minister - come on please! Read up on the Justice system of India and how allegations can be put up against any one and objected and how the system slowly but surely works - Modi was cleared a long time ago.

The Indian justice system is a joke, and anyone with knowledge of the country knows full well about that. Modi is a mass murder and your defense of him is utterly repugnant. Goes to show, how some people are happy to support extremism, when it suits them.

Here from my link:

Narendra Modi 'allowed' Gujarat 2002 anti-Muslim riots

---

Sanjiv Bhatt was a senior police officer in the Gujarat intelligence bureau during the 2002 riots.

In a sworn statement to the Supreme Court, he said that his position allowed him to come across large amounts of information and intelligence both before and during the violence, including the actions of senior administrative officials.

He also alleges that, in a meeting in the night before the riots, Mr Modi told officials that the Muslim community needed to be taught a lesson following an attack on a train carrying Hindu pilgrims.

The Gujarat government has responded to the allegations by saying they have already testified before a special panel investigating the riots and will wait for the court's verdict.

---

Gujarat government investigated itself, and found themselves to be innocent :rolleyes:. Some wonderful justice you speak of. Complete joke if you ask me. I take it you also think the congress party had nothing to do with the pogrom against Sikhs.

positron wrote: »

If we are just mud-slinging, lets not forget who was sheltering Osama Bin Laden all those years! :rolleyes:

At least the Pakistani's didn't elect him to government, unlike the India electorate who elected a mass murderer, whom you defend.

BTW, I supported everything I said, with multiple links, and you supported your claims with exactly nothing. You ignored anything and everything that was inconvenient as it suited you. Didn't mention the Armed Forces Special Powers act, as its inconvenient for you claims.

Billy86

Melodeon wrote: »

Things have been a bit... odd... on the Pakistan/India border for quite some time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagah_border_ceremony

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-6vyQugw4

Monty Python's school of funny walks vs a Michael Jackson Haka mashup.

Musketeer4

HensVassal wrote: »

Hate that stupid phrase "surgical strike". Coined to make it sound like the bombing is hyper-accurate in killing enemy militants when most of the time they blow wedding parties to bits.

Yeah, or especially when the Russians use the term. I think they take a literal interpretation and use it when referring to the bombing of hospitals.:D

wes

Sedition case filed against Om Puri for his comments on Indian soldiers

Things getting dumber and dumber. "Freedom of expression" indeed....... Sedition charges for criticizing the military.

Pakistan getting in on it as well, after India film productions companies ban Pakistanis:
Kashmir row: Pakistan slaps ban on Bollywood films

jmayo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Both Countries nuclear powers and have fought 3 wars since 1947..

Tensions occurred over a week ago when Pakistan backed militants attacked an Indian army base and killed 18 soldiers. The Indian government this week targeted these militants with a surgical strike inside Pakistan controlled Kashimir. The war talk between two countries is very high. Today both countries are shelling each other across the border.

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?


http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/01/asia/kashmir-tensions-evacuations/

Jaysus are you also going to tell us Gandhi is dead. :rolleyes:
They have been almost at a state of war for almost the last 70 years.

They regularly fire shells at each other and this is when they aren't technically at war.

Kashmir has been a hotspot for decades.
They have even had a "war" when both have had nuclear weapons and they didn't use them.

BTW hope for a big earthquake in one or other country because then they actually give each other some aid.

Also watch out for the Chinese as they might try and grab more of Kashmir when the others aren't watching.

captbarnacles

Disturbing that LeT have so much power in an unstable country with nuclear weapons. Until now LeT have generally had self preservation but could easily change. They have an old leadership and with more ISIS minded leaders in charge might actively seek nuclear weapons.

KingBrian2

That silly walk looks a bit like Riverdance.

Cheerful Spring

They have been shelling each other across the border for days now but thank god they have not declared open warfare on each other. India says it waiting for a Pakistan response to the surgical attacks they carried out last week, they think its only a matter of time.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They have been shelling each other across the border for days now but thank god they have not declared open warfare on each other.

Happens all the time it's little or nothing .