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India vs Pakistan near war?

Cheerful Spring

Both Countries nuclear powers and have fought 3 wars since 1947..

Tensions occurred over a week ago when Pakistan backed militants attacked an Indian army base and killed 18 soldiers. The Indian government this week targeted these militants with a surgical strike inside Pakistan controlled Kashimir. The war talk between two countries is very high. Today both countries are shelling each other across the border.

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/01/asia/kashmir-tensions-evacuations/

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keeponhurling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The walks too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8

see also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Silly_Walk_Gait.jpg

Don't forget Max Wall!

HensVassal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Both Countries nuclear powers and have fought 3 wars since 1947..

Tensions occurred over a week ago when Pakistan backed militants attacked an Indian army base and killed 18 soldiers. The Indian government this week targeted these militants with a surgical strike inside Pakistan controlled Kashimir. The war talk between two countries is very high. Today both countries are shelling each other across the border.

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/01/asia/kashmir-tensions-evacuations/

Hate that stupid phrase "surgical strike". Coined to make it sound like the bombing is hyper-accurate in killing enemy militants when most of the time they blow wedding parties to bits.

positron

There won't be an India-Pakistan war as such, but the situation isn't going to go away either. Pakistan is in the process of turning into another Afghanistan or Iraq. They participated in the Cold War to their benefit, now they are reaping it's ugly rewards (rise of extremism, corruption etc). India has a bit of problem to deal with for many decades to come.

wes

The Indian military have been raping and murdering civilians in Kashmir for years, and the tension in Kashmir is caused by themselves. Pakistan is a convenient scapegoat for the mess they have made in Kashmir. People generally don't like you, when you use rape and murder to enforce state policy.

Pakistan caught an Indian Naval officer in Baluchistan, whom the Indians claimed is "retired". In all likelihood they are backing militants in that region. There mass murdering Prime Minister has said as much.

Also, there increasing there nuclear arsenal, which will result in China and Pakistan doing the same.

Both sides have been backing terrorists/militants for years, and have been trying to one up the other. Nuclear war while unlikely is not out of the question. All, it would take is some of the people that both sides are backing or even perceived to be backing (as both side will blame the other, regardless of the facts), to do something stupid, and things could easily snow ball from there.

This isn't a case of one side ramping up tensions for no reason, but rather there are 2 belligerents, with poor Kashmir caught in the middle of the pointless pissing contest.

Letree

I can only imagine the refugee numbers entering Europe if those two countries went to war

TerrorFirmer

It's a war Pakistan really can't win no matter what happens. Similar amount of nuclear weapons on both sides but Pakistan is a much smaller country and it's military is nowhere near as powerful, modern or large as India's.

If it all came down to it and nuclear weapons were used, Pakistan would still ultimately lose and has nothing to gain from starting either a nuclear or conventional war.

positron

wes wrote: »

The Indian military have been raping and murdering civilians in Kashmir for years, and the tension in Kashmir is caused by themselves. Pakistan is a convenient scapegoat for the mess they have made in Kashmir. People generally don't like you, when you use rape and murder to enforce state policy.

Pakistan caught an Indian Naval officer in Baluchistan, whom the Indians claimed is "retired". In all likelihood they are backing militants in that region. There mass murdering Prime Minister has said as much.

Sounds like what you would expect an India-hating extremist Pakistani to say - biased and full of smoke and mirrors.

The Amnesty link you posted states six Indian Army personnel was sentenced for extra-judicial killing of three civilians. If anything it goes to show that India is managing to run a justice system even with all the across-the-border infiltration from Pakistani side, where Pakistan's ministers and officials have declared many times over that they support. Kashmir has been suffering since the Pakistani tribesmen started their invasion and looting which left the king with no choice but to join India. Even that didn't stop the extremist Muslims there killing the Hindu Pandits of that region which eventually lead to hundreds of thousands of them fleeing the region. From then on Pakistan has been instigating violence in the area, support, training, planning and executing covert and overt operations against India. It even resulted in three wars, all of which started by Pakistan, won by India.

Yet, Indian side of Kashmir has free and fair elections, freedom or religion, freedom of expression etc (except for the extremist Muslims trying to ruin it for everyone). Pakistan and Pakistan-based terror organisations on the other hand have been responsible for dozens of terror attacks across India, and over and again, Indian reaction has been controlled and diplomatic. I personally think they are doing the right thing now - trying to take out the terrorist bases in POK, well Pakistan isn't doing it anyway.

Mass murderer Prime Minister - come on please! Read up on the Justice system of India and how allegations can be put up against any one and objected and how the system slowly but surely works - Modi was cleared a long time ago.

If we are just mud-slinging, lets not forget who was sheltering Osama Bin Laden all those years! :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

i initially thought this was a joke when i heard it but in the current context who knows how it'll be taken

Pigeon arrested in India carrying message for prime minister
Border guards detain bird after suspecting it of being Pakistani agent

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/pigeon-arrested-in-india-carrying-message-for-prime-minister-1.2814801

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/04/pigeon-indian-police-detain-bird-carrying-note-threatened-narendra-modi

josip

take everything wrote: »

I love that.
Christ the human race is pathetic.

I've been on both sides of that border and attended the border closing.
You can say the human race is pathetic, but the ceremony is an important part in keeping a lid on tensions between the two countries.
In much the same way that international sporting events allow national rivalry/hatred to be expressed in a non-fatal way.
The symmetry of the event on both sides could not be achieved without co-operation between Pakistan and India.
Notice the handshake at 2:22
The part I remember was the shouting match where a soldier from each side tries to maintain a shout longer than the other side.
Went on for about half a minute and Pakistan lost the day I was there.

After the ceremony Indian and Pakistani families went 50 metres to the north where there was a trig point marking the border with no fence/gate/landmines. They stand 3 metres apart chatting to each other.
These were cousins who were separated when the Punjab was divided in 1947.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

BoJack Horseman

ed1604 wrote: »

i initially thought this was a joke when i heard it but in the current context who knows how it'll be taken

Pigeon arrested in India carrying message for prime minister
Border guards detain bird after suspecting it of being Pakistani agent

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/pigeon-arrested-in-india-carrying-message-for-prime-minister-1.2814801

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/04/pigeon-indian-police-detain-bird-carrying-note-threatened-narendra-modi

Speckled Jim!

BoJack Horseman

take everything wrote: »

I love that.

It's been improved upon as well.

wes

positron wrote: »

Sounds like what you would expect an India-hating extremist Pakistani to say - biased and full of smoke and mirrors.

Sounds like something a typical of a pro-rape Hindutva supporter would say :rolleyes:. I can engage in childish insults too you know.

positron wrote: »

The Amnesty link you posted states six Indian Army personnel was sentenced for extra-judicial killing of three civilians.

I posted the wrong link, buts its a well established fact:

RAPE IN KASHMIR

Here is Salman Rushdie talking about it as well:

The phrase of "crackdown" that the Indian army uses really is a euphemism of mass destruction. And rape. And brutalisation. That happens all the time. It's still happening now.

Is he a Pakistani extremist?

positron wrote: »

If anything it goes to show that India is managing to run a justice system even with all the across-the-border infiltration from Pakistani side, where Pakistan's ministers and officials have declared many times over that they support.

Armed Forces Special Powers Act says otherwise. Doesn't just apply to Kashmir either.

positron wrote: »

Kashmir has been suffering since the Pakistani tribesmen started their invasion and looting which left the king with no choice but to join India.

Local Tribesman fought against the King as well, in revenge for you know skinning people alive in the past.

positron wrote: »

Even that didn't stop the extremist Muslims there killing the Hindu Pandits of that region which eventually lead to hundreds of thousands of them fleeing the region.

Attacks on the Pandits are of course awful, and all effort should be made for there return to there homes.

However, lets not pretend the violence was one way. Plenty of refugees fleeing rape and murder at the hands of the Indian army. Plenty of Kashmiri Muslims have fled to the other side of Kashmir as well. All refugees should be able to return home, and be free of any violence against them.

positron wrote: »

From then on Pakistan has been instigating violence in the area, support, training, planning and executing covert and overt operations against India. It even resulted in three wars, all of which started by Pakistan, won by India.

You will find the rape and murder by the Indian army is what causes the violence. Trying to blame everything on Pakistan is typical nonsense, as is your continued denial of Indian state violence, which doesn't exist according to you. Disgusting position to take.

positron wrote: »

Yet, Indian side of Kashmir has free and fair elections, freedom or religion, freedom of expression etc (except for the extremist Muslims trying to ruin it for everyone).

Armed Forces Special Powers Act tells a different story. Again, rape and murder by the Indian state is a regular occurrence. Your denial doesn't change this fact.

Oh and here is an example of your "freedom of expression":
My Kashmir newspaper has been shut down, and I’m not surprised

You have an interesting interpretation of "freedom of expression", in that your interpretation means the exact opposite of the actual meaning.

positron wrote: »

Pakistan and Pakistan-based terror organisations on the other hand have been responsible for dozens of terror attacks across India, and over and again, Indian reaction has been controlled and diplomatic. I personally think they are doing the right thing now - trying to take out the terrorist bases in POK, well Pakistan isn't doing it anyway.

The current Indian Prime Minister is responsible for an Anti-Muslim pogrom, and as I pointed out earlier, an India spy was arrested in Baluchistan. India has been happy to support terror, when it suits them as well. Again, denial as per usual. BTW, I never denied Pakistan's support of terrorist or militants. Both sides have been at that nonsense for year. Unlike you, I have the decency not to deny the facts.

positron wrote: »

Mass murderer Prime Minister - come on please! Read up on the Justice system of India and how allegations can be put up against any one and objected and how the system slowly but surely works - Modi was cleared a long time ago.

The Indian justice system is a joke, and anyone with knowledge of the country knows full well about that. Modi is a mass murder and your defense of him is utterly repugnant. Goes to show, how some people are happy to support extremism, when it suits them.

Here from my link:

Narendra Modi 'allowed' Gujarat 2002 anti-Muslim riots
Sanjiv Bhatt was a senior police officer in the Gujarat intelligence bureau during the 2002 riots.

In a sworn statement to the Supreme Court, he said that his position allowed him to come across large amounts of information and intelligence both before and during the violence, including the actions of senior administrative officials.

He also alleges that, in a meeting in the night before the riots, Mr Modi told officials that the Muslim community needed to be taught a lesson following an attack on a train carrying Hindu pilgrims.

The Gujarat government has responded to the allegations by saying they have already testified before a special panel investigating the riots and will wait for the court's verdict.

Gujarat government investigated itself, and found themselves to be innocent :rolleyes:. Some wonderful justice you speak of. Complete joke if you ask me. I take it you also think the congress party had nothing to do with the pogrom against Sikhs.

positron wrote: »

If we are just mud-slinging, lets not forget who was sheltering Osama Bin Laden all those years! :rolleyes:

At least the Pakistani's didn't elect him to government, unlike the India electorate who elected a mass murderer, whom you defend.

BTW, I supported everything I said, with multiple links, and you supported your claims with exactly nothing. You ignored anything and everything that was inconvenient as it suited you. Didn't mention the Armed Forces Special Powers act, as its inconvenient for you claims.

Billy86

Melodeon wrote: »

Things have been a bit... odd... on the Pakistan/India border for quite some time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagah_border_ceremony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-6vyQugw4

Monty Python's school of funny walks vs a Michael Jackson Haka mashup.

Musketeer4

HensVassal wrote: »

Hate that stupid phrase "surgical strike". Coined to make it sound like the bombing is hyper-accurate in killing enemy militants when most of the time they blow wedding parties to bits.

Yeah, or especially when the Russians use the term. I think they take a literal interpretation and use it when referring to the bombing of hospitals.:D

wes

Sedition case filed against Om Puri for his comments on Indian soldiers

Things getting dumber and dumber. "Freedom of expression" indeed....... Sedition charges for criticizing the military.

Pakistan getting in on it as well, after India film productions companies ban Pakistanis:
Kashmir row: Pakistan slaps ban on Bollywood films

jmayo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Both Countries nuclear powers and have fought 3 wars since 1947..

Tensions occurred over a week ago when Pakistan backed militants attacked an Indian army base and killed 18 soldiers. The Indian government this week targeted these militants with a surgical strike inside Pakistan controlled Kashimir. The war talk between two countries is very high. Today both countries are shelling each other across the border.

Pakistan and India fought a war do you think one of them will use the N-bomb?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/01/asia/kashmir-tensions-evacuations/

Jaysus are you also going to tell us Gandhi is dead. :rolleyes:
They have been almost at a state of war for almost the last 70 years.

They regularly fire shells at each other and this is when they aren't technically at war.

Kashmir has been a hotspot for decades.
They have even had a "war" when both have had nuclear weapons and they didn't use them.

BTW hope for a big earthquake in one or other country because then they actually give each other some aid.

Also watch out for the Chinese as they might try and grab more of Kashmir when the others aren't watching.

captbarnacles

Disturbing that LeT have so much power in an unstable country with nuclear weapons. Until now LeT have generally had self preservation but could easily change. They have an old leadership and with more ISIS minded leaders in charge might actively seek nuclear weapons.

KingBrian2

That silly walk looks a bit like Riverdance.

Cheerful Spring

They have been shelling each other across the border for days now but thank god they have not declared open warfare on each other. India says it waiting for a Pakistan response to the surgical attacks they carried out last week, they think its only a matter of time.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They have been shelling each other across the border for days now but thank god they have not declared open warfare on each other.

Happens all the time it's little or nothing .

Arghus

Melodeon wrote: »

Things have been a bit... odd... on the Pakistan/India border for quite some time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagah_border_ceremony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-6vyQugw4

War? I dunno. Looks like both countries are fully occupied getting up to that daily border closing prancing around craic. Sure, how could you expect anyone to fight a war after expending all that energy doing that everyday? You'd be knackered.

My personal favourite bit of that utterly crackers piece of footage: The sneaky handshake the two boys share right at the cessation of goosestepping hostilities. Feels like there's a bit of warmth in it, comraderie even -"Another day without a groin strain, hernia, or nuclear war - Aren't we doing well"