SFC Final Replay - Dublin v Mayo Sat 1st October *Read Mod Note Post #1*

PressRun

Way too much is made of that Lee Keegan miss, tbh.

Stoner

PressRun wrote:

Way too much is made of that Lee Keegan miss, tbh.

True since it wasn't a miss anyway. James McCarthy blocked the shot

Blud

corny wrote: »

No he doesn't have a point.

Kerry 2015 - 5 points from play
Kerry 2016 - 22 points

Mayo - 2016 5 points from play
Mayo - 2015 3-15 scored

The link between both poor scoring days is the weather. If you don't recognise that you're stupid or trying to wind people up.

Jesus you're easily wound up. I made a very innocent comment about Dublin only scoring 5 points from play in two All Ireland finals in a row - there's no need for the accusations you're making there.

Some of you lads really don't like any questions being levelled at Dublin at all.

You also need to stop using the weather as an excuse. Mayo played in the same weather and scored 10 points from play, twice that of Dublin. What makes you think the weather is an excuse for Dublin and not for Mayo?

The reasons behind Dublin failing to score are, in my opinion, the inside forward line not showing up when it mattered, and also the half forward line not getting the ball inside quickly enough. Kilkenny could still be soloing around on his own 45 today and Mayo would be happy to see it. I heard that he only gave the ball to Connolly for the sideline when he realised you can't fist pass a sideline ball.

Mayo got the ball into Moran and to a lesser extent AOS in the first half much quicker. A dry day would have suited those lads a lot better too, but you'll be hard pressed to find anyone from Mayo blaming the weather on any of our poor performances in all Ireland finals over the last 27 years. It's pathetic.

PressRun

Can the weather really be used as an excuse when Dublin won an All-Ireland in practically monsoon conditions last year? The weather was the same for both teams. Sure rain can make ball handling more difficult and perhaps skill levels aren't going to be as high, but I don't believe that any team living and playing their football in Ireland can seriously complain about a bit of rain. It's a fact of life in Ireland and Dublin can and have won matches in it before.

Peist2007

PressRun wrote: »

Can the weather really be used as an excuse

No

The Talking Bread

weather is just an excuse for an excuse. As I said before you'd swear Mayo players were amphibians the way the Dubs fans have been going on and they train in ponds!
There is actually f all difference in rainfall between the east and west through the year. I think over the course of a year the west would have about 15 to 20% more but a wet surface is a wet surface.
Both teams were impeded just as much by issues like slippy ground and handling.

corny

Blud wrote: »

You also need to stop using the weather as an excuse. Mayo played in the same weather and scored 10 points from play, twice that of Dublin. What makes you think the weather is an excuse for Dublin and not for Mayo?

The reasons behind Dublin failing to score are, in my opinion, the inside forward line not showing up when it mattered, and also the half forward line not getting the ball inside quickly enough. Kilkenny could still be soloing around on his own 45 today and Mayo would be happy to see it. I heard that he only gave the ball to Connolly for the sideline when he realised you can't fist pass a sideline ball.

Mayo got the ball into Moran and to a lesser extent AOS in the first half much quicker. A dry day would have suited those lads a lot better too, but you'll be hard pressed to find anyone from Mayo blaming the weather on any of our poor performances in all Ireland finals over the last 27 years. It's pathetic.

Keep up.

corny wrote: »

Its more accurate to say Mayo handled the conditions better. Credit where its due. Dublin had 12 wides, Mayo had 6 i think. Thats a great conversion rate in any game let alone a final in those conditions.

Talk all the ****e you like about being angry or wound up...the original comment made, that you thought was valid, is just wrong and stupid.

PARlance

The Talking Bread wrote: »

weather is just an excuse for an excuse. As I said before you'd swear Mayo players were amphibians the way the Dubs fans have been going on and they train in ponds!
There is actually f all difference in rainfall between the east and west through the year. I think over the course of a year the west would have about 15 to 20% more but a wet surface is a wet surface.
Both teams were impeded just as much by issues like slippy ground and handling.

Agreed re the excuses. And CP is supposed to be like an ice rink when wet... we don't have surfaces like that in Mayo.

As an fyi.
Areas in Mayo get over 2000mm per year vs 600mm in Dublin. I've split my life between the 2 counties and I would kill for a 15-20% difference.
http://www.met.ie/climate/rainfall.asp

Moo Moo Land

The Talking Bread wrote: »

There is actually f all difference in rainfall between the east and west through the year. I think over the course of a year the west would have about 15 to 20% more but a wet surface is a wet surface.

Irrespective of the point you are trying to make, you cannot keep making up facts as you go. Do the research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Ireland

Rainfall is the most common form of precipitation on the island, and is extremely common throughout Ireland, although some parts of the west coast receive over four times as much rain as the east coast. Rainfall in Ireland normally comes from Atlantic frontal systems which travel northeast over the island, bringing cloud and rain. Most of the eastern half of the country has between 750 and 1,000 mm (29.5 and 39.4 in) of rainfall in the year. Rainfall in the west generally averages between 1,000 and 1,250 mm (39.4 and 49.2 in). In many mountainous districts rainfall exceeds 3,000 mm (118.1 in) per year. The wettest months almost everywhere are December and January. April is the driest month generally, but in many southern parts June is the driest.

The average number of "wet days" (days with more than 1 mm (0.039 in) of rain) ranges from about 151 days a year along the east and southeast coasts, to about 225 days a year in parts of the west.

The wettest weather station is Valentia Island, which receives 1,430.1 mm (56.30 in) of rain per year, on average.

The driest weather station is Casement Aerodrome, which receives 711.4 mm (28.01 in) of rain per year, on average.

The weather station with the highest number of "wet days" is Belmullet, with 193 days per year, while the station with the lowest number of "wet days" is Dublin Airport, with 128 days per year.

The Talking Bread

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

Irrespective of the point you are trying to make, you cannot keep making up facts as you go. Do the research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Ireland

Ha, fair enough, but you get my overall point! A wet surface is a wet surface and over the course of a season (perhaps to try excuse my less than pedantic research!!) Dublin are well used to playing in wet conditions also.

Sure maybe all that rain yesterday got them climatised!

ha!

Its not a valid advantage though, any player would tell you that.

Blud

corny wrote: »

Keep up.



Talk all the ****e you like about being angry or wound up...the original comment made, that you thought was valid, is just wrong and stupid.

What's with the aggression?

I said that the other poster had a point in saying that there was a big difference between the average conversion rate for Dublin when you look at it in terms of Leinster championship versus the All Ireland series. And of course he's correct with that, it's a pretty obvious point to make given the respective standards of opposition.

Dublin averaged 25 points per game in the Leinster championship this year, and fell to 18 points per game in the All Ireland series thus far. In 2015, their average fell by 9 points, in 2014 by 7 points, in 2013 by 7 points and in 2012 by 6 points.

So yep, the other poster had a point. You ignore it though.

Utopia Parkway

PressRun wrote: »

Can the weather really be used as an excuse when Dublin won an All-Ireland in practically monsoon conditions last year? .

You could make an argument that the weather that day made the game much closer than it actually was. Really Dublin were always in control but could still only squeak out a narrow 3 point win

Shurimgreat

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you its much harder to handle the ball and hold possession on a wet day. This is pretty basic for anyone who has played the game. Likewise kicking and catching are affected. Why do you think players wear gloves on a wet day? Inevitably the standard of football declines on a wet day. And it does balance things out more. The better team might kick a lot of points on a dry day. On a wet day their return is going to be much lower and therefore the difference between the teams will be lower. Like I said, not rocket science.

Peist2007

Blud wrote: »

What's with the aggression?

I said that the other poster had a point in saying that there was a big difference between the average conversion rate for Dublin when you look at it in terms of Leinster championship versus the All Ireland series. And of course he's correct with that, it's a pretty obvious point to make given the respective standards of opposition.

Dublin averaged 25 points per game in the Leinster championship this year, and fell to 18 points per game in the All Ireland series thus far. In 2015, their average fell by 9 points, in 2014 by 7 points, in 2013 by 7 points and in 2012 by 6 points.

So yep, the other poster had a point. You ignore it though.

Thank you kind sir. Dubs like comfortable stats only, clearly.

The Talking Bread

Shurimgreat wrote: »

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you its much harder to handle the ball and hold possession on a wet day. This is pretty basic for anyone who has played the game. Likewise kicking and catching are affected. Why do you think players wear gloves on a wet day? Inevitably the standard of football declines on a wet day. And it does balance things out more. The better team might kick a lot of points on a dry day. On a wet day their return is going to be much lower and therefore the difference between the teams will be lower. Like I said, not rocket science.

But both teams are in the same conditions!!! That isn't rocket science! If the better team (clearly you mean Dublin) are scoring a lower rate due to this, surely the inferior team (of course you mean Mayo) will also score lower!!

So that means if Dublin score 16 points on a dry day, and Mayo 12, why by logic (you refer to the rocket science principle) should Mayo score just the same amount, but Dublin lower!

Or is it that the better team is the only one hampered by rainfall! Surely the better team should be able to handle the conditions better than the inferior team?

We live in Ireland. Both teams are well used to training and playing on a wet evenong/afternoon.

It was heavy drizzle at most Sunday anyway.

Dublin and Mayo have had matches between them over the last few years in the driest of conditions and there was f all between them , in quality and result. Remember the drawn game last year? And the replay.

You are essentially saying Mayos standard wont really drop but Dublins will?

Its a bad excuse.

The Talking Bread

Listen, I get that the quality of Dublin's play was hampered somewhat due to the conditions. But Mayo's was also? There are some levelling aspects to it but in any weather conditions, when both teams are accustomed to playing in same, the superior team will come out on tops, more times than not considerably so.
Look at the match again, Mayo players slipped and mishandled just as much as Dublin fans. O Shea was on his arse a few times, Keegan also. The man in possession will always have the upperhand on his opponent/tackler in wet conditions. Dublin play a lot of short football, possession ball.Moreso than Mayo so in fact Mayos balls into the full forward line tactic should, by logic, be hampered moreso than Dublins possession game.

Shurimgreat

The Talking Bread wrote: »

But both teams are in the same conditions!!! That isn't rocket science! If the better team (clearly you mean Dublin) are scoring a lower rate due to this, surely the inferior team (of course you mean Mayo) will also score lower!!

So that means if Dublin score 16 points on a dry day, and Mayo 12, why by logic (you refer to the rocket science principle) should Mayo score just the same amount, but Dublin lower!

Or is it that the better team is the only one hampered by rainfall! Surely the better team should be able to handle the conditions better than the inferior team?

We live in Ireland. Both teams are well used to training and playing on a wet evenong/afternoon.

It was heavy drizzle at most Sunday anyway.

Dublin and Mayo have had matches between them over the last few years in the driest of conditions and there was f all between them , in quality and result. Remember the drawn game last year? And the replay.

You are essentially saying Mayos standard wont really drop but Dublins will?

Its a bad excuse.

Ok let me explain this to you slowly.

Dublin team on a good day score 20 points from play (for sake of argument). Opposition team scores 10 points from play. Difference between the teams is 10 points

Dublin team on a wet day only score 10 points from play (due to reasons previously outlined). Opposition team scores 5 points from play. Difference between the teams is 5 points.

On a truly atrocious day, Dublin score 5 points from play and the opposition score 2 points from play. And the opposition get a flukey goal in the mix because of the poor conditions, eg goalkeeper or fullback slips.

Now you understand how poor conditions can be a leveller? The difference on the scoreboard between the teams is greatly reduced.

The Talking Bread

Stop with the "Let me explain it slowly cr!p". It doesn't affect me but it makes you look like a smart a"s!!

perhaps, look at the scorelines over the last few years. Both teams have scored basically the same quantity of points over the last five years against eachother generally. Both teams in all but one game over 16 points. Dry days. You are essentially saying Dublin naturally have a higher point advantage going into these games but Mayo have to try catch it but Dublin have to try sustain it!

Why, on a dry day do Dublin not go out and hammer Mayo, if they are more used to it?!

Ive seen games when the "better" opposition hammers the other due to inclement weather. This is the more regular occurrence as the inferior team will be more prone to be found out.

You play in the conditions you are given and both teams are well used to rainfall conditions as they are Irish born and bred, so both should be equally able to adapt to same. Same boots, same gloves, same bodily aesthetics, same immunity to rain (both get wet).

Id take your point if it was a team adapting to heat conditions against another team in a different climate zone completely!

If a team cannot adapt to weather conditions that are common feature and they train and play in throughout the year and another team can, as well as the fact the other team can play just as well as the former team in dry conditions, as proved over the years between these two teams, then the latter team should be, by that logic the better team, no???


Again, the rainfall wasn't THAT bad. Both teams are susceptible to slipping, mishandling.

yop

Jesus lads have we any ability left on this forum to actually take on someone else opinion without taking mortal offence. We've already had 2 threads closed by the same bunch of precious posters.

Any chance ye could just grow up and have an objective view on posts, or else I'm sure we will see this thread closed too.

Blackjack

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Ok let me explain this to you slowly.

Dublin team on a good day score 20 points from play (for sake of argument). Opposition team scores 10 points from play. Difference between the teams is 10 points

Dublin team on a wet day only score 10 points from play (due to reasons previously outlined). Opposition team scores 5 points from play. Difference between the teams is 5 points.

On a truly atrocious day, Dublin score 5 points from play and the opposition score 2 points from play. And the opposition get a flukey goal in the mix because of the poor conditions, eg goalkeeper or fullback slips.

Now you understand how poor conditions can be a leveller? The difference on the scoreboard between the teams is greatly reduced.

Surely by the above logic, the 2 flukey goals in the mix that Dublin got, Mayo are therefore the superior team having scored twice as many points from Play as Dublin?.

The Talking Bread

Forecast for next Saturday.........Mayo are fked!

01.10.2016




Partly cloudydaily forecast Dublin:
13-19:00 Uhr
0 mm
Precipitation
13° C Temperatures
Gentle breeze 4.9 m/s
from West1007 hPa
pressure

Blud

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Ok let me explain this to you slowly.

Dublin team on a good day score 20 points from play (for sake of argument). Opposition team scores 10 points from play. Difference between the teams is 10 points

Dublin team on a wet day only score 10 points from play (due to reasons previously outlined). Opposition team scores 5 points from play. Difference between the teams is 5 points.

On a truly atrocious day, Dublin score 5 points from play and the opposition score 2 points from play. And the opposition get a flukey goal in the mix because of the poor conditions, eg goalkeeper or fullback slips.

Now you understand how poor conditions can be a leveller? The difference on the scoreboard between the teams is greatly reduced.

That's utter drivel. A post made even more strange by the first line.

On Sunday, Dublin scored 5 from play and Mayo 10. By your logic, if Dublin go to 10 points the next day then Mayo go to 20, right?

Maybe you want to explain even more slowly?

The Talking Bread

yop wrote: »

Jesus lads have we any ability left on this forum to actually take on someone else opinion without taking mortal offence. We've already had 2 threads closed by the same bunch of precious posters.

Any chance ye could just grow up and have an objective view on posts, or else I'm sure we will see this thread closed too.

just to clarify, I have never been a party to the reasons why the threads were closed.
I think I am raising valid opinion here to this nonsense excuse but Ive said enough on the matter, I'll admit and no minds for changing on a Boards thread so I'm out!

Also, these threads are for discussion, I don't think a few posts between us on a valid matter like the rain conditions is overboard, in essence.

kilns

The Talking Bread wrote: »

weather is just an excuse for an excuse. As I said before you'd swear Mayo players were amphibians the way the Dubs fans have been going on and they train in ponds!
There is actually f all difference in rainfall between the east and west through the year. I think over the course of a year the west would have about 15 to 20% more but a wet surface is a wet surface.
Both teams were impeded just as much by issues like slippy ground and handling.

I think the way Mayo approached the game the weather suited them more with their pressing and defensive game. The weather nearly acted as a 7th defender for them, as Dublin would have that split second less and that is all it takes. On a dryer day the ball would be moved quicker and players will more secure in their footing and handling leading to it harder to press as effectively. If it is a dry day I do not think Mayo will press as high up the pitch and will pack out the zone between their 21 and 45, either forcing to Dublin to run at them or shoot from long range and then try to hit Dublin on the counter attack

The Talking Bread

kilns wrote: »

I think the way Mayo approached the game the weather suited them more with their pressing and defensive game. The weather nearly acted as a 7th defender for them, as Dublin would have that split second less and that is all it takes. On a dryer day the ball would be moved quicker and players will more secure in their footing and handling leading to it harder to press as effectively. If it is a dry day I do not think Mayo will press as high up the pitch and will pack out the zone between their 21 and 45, either forcing to Dublin to run at them or shoot from long range and then try to hit Dublin on the counter attack

At least you put a bit of sense into your post, rather than being smart a££ and I agree with your points, how the weather effected both teams tactics. The different impacts on it. The excuse being used though, essentially is that Dublin don't have a plan B to overcome these same conditions, unlike Mayo!

Mayo clearly set out a stall to adapt to the game. They ran the ball through the centre and minimalised a lot of their usual tactics like low balls into the corner or high balls down the centre. It seemed to me Dublin went out and trieed to play their usual game and didn't account as much for the weather, to their supposed detriment.
Jim Gavin is an experienced coach overseeing experienced players. That weather was forecast all week so Dublin had plenty of time to resort to a plan B to overcome same.
Mayo can play just as well as Dublin in dry conditions, albeit yes they have been beaten by the minimal margins over the last few years. They also seem to be able to appreciate another approach to their game is required to accomodate varying conditions. In my opinion, thats a positive on Mayo's behalf and equally a negative on Dublins. But it isn't an "excuse"

Weather will be decent by the looks of it next week so thank god this excuse cannot be brought up again.
And yes, I do believe Dublin wil,l play a lot better but, equally, Mayo will.

Thats essentially my point.

Weather is a part of the game and ability to adapt to it is a part measurement of a team.

benny79

Dublin's plan B overcame worse conditions last year against Kerry!

The Talking Bread

benny79 wrote: »

Dublin's plan B overcame worse conditions last year against Kerry!

precisely! Again, both teams hampered, neither Kerry nor Dublin were allowed to play effective football but Dublin prevailed. Kerry went home and didn't claim they were hampered to the point of their detriment by the conditions, they accepted the weather for what it was, as both teams were party to it.

There is plenty of rain down in Tralee and Killarney!

Kerry spent most of that match with hail Mary kicking while Dublin played admirable football, given the weather. Mayo didnt allow them do that and clearly watched that Kerry final during the week to set a stall out how to take on a team like Dublin in such an ice rink plateau. That's the sign of a good management and good team.

Another point is, how difficut it is for a team to overcome margins like 5 points and 3 points, rspectively in those conditions. The leading team are in control of the game in any conditions in that situation, and moreso in these conditions.

ProudDUB

benny79 wrote: »

Dublin's plan B overcame worse conditions last year against Kerry!

It was also overcame Mayo in the league, in a game that was played in monsoon conditions that were far worse than those on Sunday.

Shurimgreat

Anyways, moving on from the weather debate, which frankly has been flogged to death at this stage, I still don't see anything other than a Dublin victory. They can't be any worse than they were the last day, that's a given. It will be tight no doubt, but Mayo proved they still cannot close out an AI final. They are well able to dominate Dublin and any other team for stretches of games but they cannot sustain it to the final whistle.

And they still suffer the concession of relatively soft goals.

There's still nothing to indicate Mayo have what it takes to close this one out, whereas Dublin have closed out the last 3 AI finals they have played in.

Blackjack

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Anyways, moving on from the weather debate, which frankly has been flogged to death at this stage, I still don't see anything other than a Dublin victory. They can't be any worse than they were the last day, that's a given. It will be tight no doubt, but Mayo proved they still cannot close out an AI final. They are well able to dominate Dublin and any other team for stretches of games but they cannot sustain it to the final whistle.

And they still suffer the concession of relatively soft goals.

There's still nothing to indicate Mayo have what it takes to close this one out, whereas Dublin have closed out the last 3 AI finals they have played in.

Didn't Dublin have a 5 point lead and a 3 point lead during the second half on Sunday?.
Define "Closing out a game" then?.