Should we allow Irish to die out?

JupiterKid

For over 90 years now successive generations of Irish children have been taught Irish in schools and it is considered our national language but despite this only 1% or even less of the population are Gaelgeoirs on a daily basis.

The shrinkage of the Gaeltacht is an area of real concern. In 1926, just after independence, 15 of the 26 counties included a Gaeltacht area, including most of Galway, most of Donegal, half of Kerry and much of Waterford. By 2007, these areas had shrunk to such an extent that only a tiny area at the tip of the Dingle peninsula, part of South Connemara and part of West Donegal were considered monoglot Gaeltacht areas. Indeed, a 2007 study suggested that by the end of the 2020s that Irish will be a minority spoken language in all the current Gaeltacht areas.

What do boardsies think of the situation? Should we just let Irish die out or should we be making every effort to preserve or revive it?


PS: tried to attach some maps but was unable to!

zSparc

What?

clairewithani

zSparc wrote: »

What?

You mean céard?

foggy_lad

JupiterKid wrote: »

For over 90 years now successive generations of Irish children have been taught Irish in schools and it ios considered our national language but despite this only 1% or even less of the population are Gaelgoirs on a daily basis.

The shrinkage of the Gaeltacht is an area of real concern. Just compare the Gaeltacht in 1926 to that in 2007:


An Gaeltacht 1926
Attachment not found.


An Gaeltacht 2007
Attachment not found.

Attachments don't work, you could try to discuss it here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=904

The_Valeyard

JupiterKid wrote: »

For over 90 years now successive generations of Irish children have been taught Irish in schools and it ios considered our national language but despite this only 1% or even less of the population are Gaelgoirs on a daily basis.

The shrinkage of the Gaeltacht is an area of real concern. Just compare the Gaeltacht in 1926 to that in 2007:


An Gaeltacht 1926
Attachment not found.


An Gaeltacht 2007
Attachment not found.

So is this the 1% that was causing all the hassle during the crash with the protesters and such?

Pawwed Rig

Irish should be banned with severe consequences for anyone caught using it.

The whole country would be fluent in a year.

Letree

JupiterKid wrote: »

For over 90 years now successive generations of Irish children have been taught Irish in schools and it ios considered our national language but despite this only 1% or even less of the population are Gaelgoirs on a daily basis.

The shrinkage of the Gaeltacht is an area of real concern. Just compare the Gaeltacht in 1926 to that in 2007:


An Gaeltacht 1926
Attachment not found.


An Gaeltacht 2007
Attachment not found.

I think the language is never going to be used by the greater population. Its a farce as is where we pretend its our first language. I would be happy to see the gaeltacht fade away and the people living there use english.

Taxburden carrier

No but we should certainly let TG4 die out .

maudgonner

Any chance we could just ban threads about Irish from After Hours? We all know how this is going to go...

511

Let it die, Irish people generally seem to have less brain cells than other Western European states. I would have preferred if my time in religion and Irish class was spent on more useful subjects.

zSparc

clairewithani wrote: »

You mean céard?

No, I mean whaaat?

Hammer89

Irish, as a subject, is completely useless in my experience.

Turn it into a night course for people who want to converse with the locals in remote parts of the country, or for people who dream about having a role on Ros na Run, but for everybody else, like helpless children and teenagers in schools, don't subject them to a subject which they have absolutely no use for going forward in life.

I realise there's a lot of other silly subjects, but I can't think of another which has contributed less to the person I am now as Irish.

ThinkProgress

What's the point filling kid's heads with stuff they'll almost certainly never use..?

Sorry, but tradition and heritage is not a big enough reason for me. Every hour school kids in this country spend learning Irish, is time they could be learning something more practical to the world they'll soon be catapulted into...

Meaning we are potentially at a disadvantage up against other nations with smarter education policies!

kenmc

Yes. Practice your antiquated hobby at home, don't enforce it on the future generations unless they choose to try it.

"Oh but it's our heritage". Yes. And we also used to live in caves, wear animal skins and make fire with sticks. Times have changed. Deal with it.

riffmongous

No not die out,but remove most official support and make it optional in secondary school, and instead put a focus on speaking the language in class and encourage cultural events

Ticking and Bashing

Ugh ANOTHER thread on this!!!!

Esel

Tá cead agat dul amach go dtí an leithreas.

Boater123

kenmc wrote: »

Yes. Practice your antiquated hobby at home, don't enforce it on the future generations unless they choose to try it.

"Oh but it's our heritage". Yes. And we also used to live in caves, wear animal skins and make fire with sticks. Times have changed. Deal with it.

Tends to be the opinion of those that can't actually speak it, or who are embarrassed by it. The opinion of those who might as well live in ignorance in caves, wear animal skins and make fire with sticks.

Its not only an Irish persons heritage but also part of an Irish persons psyche. Not being able to speak at least a few words, is to be missing out on something uniquely yours.

Sad.

511

511 wrote: »

Irish people generally seem to have less brain cells than other Western European states.

Ridiculous, unsubstantiated nonsensical statements like this are what need to die out, not the Irish language.

learn_more

JupiterKid wrote: »

For over 90 years now successive generations of Irish children have been taught Irish in schools and it is considered our national language but despite this only 1% or even less of the population are Gaelgeoirs on a daily basis.

The shrinkage of the Gaeltacht is an area of real concern. In 1926, just after independence, 15 of the 26 counties included a Gaeltacht area, including most of Galway, most of Donegal, half of Kerry and much of Waterford. By 2007, these areas had shrunk to such an extent that only a tiny area at the tip of the Dingle peninsula, part of South Connemara and part of West Donegal were considered monoglot Gaeltacht areas. Indeed, a 2007 study suggested that by the end of the 2020s that Irish will be a minority spoken language in all the current Gaeltacht areas.

What do boardsies think of the situation? Should we just let Irish die out or should we be making every effort to preserve or revive it?


PS: tried to attach some maps but was unable to!

Could you re-write that in Irish please. It would sound so much more richer and genuine.

mzungu

Taxburden carrier wrote: »

No but we should certainly let TG4 die out .

Ah no, TG4 has had some great shows over the years. Granted most of them are from the states....but still.

KKkitty

I wouldn't get rid of it completely but make it like most languages and that is that if you want to learn it in school you can. It shouldn't be compulsory for 2nd level education anyway. The main language in Ireland is English and most forms have both English or Irish so you don't have to know Irish all that well. Unless you want to be a Gardaí or politician Irish isn't really necessary to know. Maybe if it was there to be learned for fun it might be picked up again.

kenmc

Boater123 wrote: »

Tends to be the opinion of those that can't actually speak it, or who are embarrassed by it. The opinion of those who might as well live in ignorance in caves, wear animal skins and make fire with sticks.

Its not only an Irish persons heritage but also part of an Irish persons psyche. Not being able to speak at least a few words, is to be missing out on something uniquely yours.

Sad.

Or who can see past the pointlessness of it. 14 years of irish enforcement, 6 Years of voluntary German, 20 weeks of voluntary mandarin, guess which of these I've found least useful?

TallGlass

Wow. Just wow, absolutely bizzare that people seem to have this hang up on Irish, the language is not the fault of how it was thought to people, unfortunately like alot of things it is another victim. I have to learn Irish at the moment, yes its hard but it's very interesting and beautiful to speak, I am guessing I will never be fluent or even half know how to speak it, but I tell you something, I will make sure my children are emersed in Irish and as many languages I can try to speak and see if they pick them up. I feel pissed off at myself, not just because I can't speak Irish, but I cannot speak any other language but English, which is fine with me but I would love to speak another one. But never blame Irish itself for why no body uses it, English is more practical, Irish should have been thought the same as English and along side it, not separately. I feel it would have made it practical, Irish that is.

Rothko

511 wrote: »

Let it die, Irish people generally seem to have less brain cells than other Western European states. I would have preferred if my time in religion and Irish class was spent on more useful subjects.

What do you base that on?

darkpagandeath

It has already.

Day Lewin

Every language is a uniquely human achievement, a carrier of culture, learning, humour, song and oral history. Not to mention communication.
Many languages have never been written down at all...many are only spoken by handfuls of people in remote places.
But they are all treasures and it is a tragedy for even one to go extinct.
I'd be appalled if we lost our uniquely beautiful and ancient language, but I doubt it will ever happen: Sure, there are always whingers, but many of us love it too.

learn_more

I'm more concerned with Elephants and Rhinos becoming extinct , than a language.

Egyptian Hieroglyphs are extinct, but who could care less.

Pugzilla

The world would be better with just one language.

wakka12

Pugzilla wrote: »

The world would be better with just one language.

Would it? I like the diversity of languages in the world, its beautiful

learn_more

Pugzilla wrote: »

The world would be better with just one language.

It would still be the same overall.

We would still have sunsets and rainbows.

Esel

learn_more wrote: »

It would still be the same overall.

We would still have sunsets and rainbows.

And one word for snow.

jimmy blevins

Fingalian the native language of fingal died out in the 19th century.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingallian

feargale

learn_more wrote: »

I'm more concerned with Elephants and Rhinos becoming extinct , than a language.

Egyptian Hieroglyphs are extinct, but who could care less.

As a matter of interest, why would the extinction of elephants and rhinos bother you?
The rhino certainly is of no practical use to mankind,

JupiterKid

According to the United nations, one language goes extinct every fortnight. That rate is alarming but is, I feel, a consequence of an ever interconnected globalised world.

And I also believe that unless radical changes are made to education policy, Irish will effectively be extinct before the end of this century.

Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/world/18cnd-language.html?_r=0

FanadMan

mzungu wrote: »

Ah no, TG4 has had some great shows over the years. Granted most of them are from the states....but still.

Within a week of the bloody stupid ban on The Exorcist in Ireland bring lifted, TG4 (TnG) showed it. And very soon after that, The Life of Brian (yet another ban due to the religious bias rife in the country at the time). For a channel that some people in here seem to regard as outdated/blind/republican/dead, they seem to enjoy throwing two fingers at the establishment.

While I don't speak Irish all the time, I do speak it now and again every day. It just depends who I'm talking to. With my two closest friends, one is local and has fluent Irish....the other is English and has a few words of Irish.

Sorry mzungu for ranting in a reply to your post but once I started typing I couldn't stop.

LordSutch

Too many threads on this topic over the years . . . . . .

No is the answer to the original question.

also, it shouldn't be mandatory after inter cert.

We speak English.

osarusan

I don't want to see Irish die out, and don't mind seeing money spent to help it survive.

I wouldn't necessarily see it as the waste that others do, but that doesn't mean just throwing money at it - we need to be looking at other revitalisation programmes and learning from them.

Still, I don't think that the most optimistic scenario is much more than helping it survive...it will never be anything other than a community language in a tiny number of places.

chopperbyrne

Don't mind it being taught in primary school, but it should be optional in secondary school.

The flying mouse

I hope we don't loose the Irish language, I agree its was horrible the way it was forced on us in the 70,s.You grew to just hate it, But times change and I think it be great to have it spoken more widely, Having a country bilingually be nice :-) So to answer to Op , No.

crummymummy

We would be irresponsible as a nation to let it die out, whether the majority support the language or not.

Pugzilla

wakka12 wrote: »

Would it? I like the diversity of languages in the world, its beautiful

It's extremely inefficient. It's a communication system at the end of the day. They all serve the same purpose, so why not just use one?

Olishi4

I don't speak fluent Irish but I know in school, it was always important to me.

Not everything you learn in school is completely for practical purposes.

Pugzilla

Olishi4 wrote: »

I don't speak fluent Irish but I know in school, it was always important to me.

Not everything you learn in school is completely for practical purposes.

I did my primary and secondary education in Irish. Sat all my leaving cert subjects in Irish. Complete waste of time. A dead language in the real world. Pidgin Irish is the only type spoken outside of academics.

doolox

Irish is an example of an official policy out of step with the practical realities of everyday life. It is our first Official Language yet very few people use it in everyday contact with government officials such as Tax and Social Welfare. Students spend a lot of time at it because it is one of three core compulsory subjects, other nations spend more time on practical subjects such as Maths and Science to the detriment of our students ability to compete in the modern globalised economy. More time should be spent at school by most average students in sharpening their Maths and general Communications skills and while Irish may help in the communications side of things, a modern European language at an early age would be more helpful.

Perhaps we should look at what the Welsh are doing with their Language? Do all Welsh residents have to study Welsh at all Primary and Secondary Schools in the Principality? Is the study of Welsh concentrated in Welsh speaking areas?

A similar thing happens in Scotland where only the native speakers or people wanting to work in areas with a significant native speaking population have to learn the Scots Gaelic language.

In Ireland everybody has to learn 14 yrs of Irish yet only 1% are native speakers.

jimmy blevins

We could just copy Wales or NI but that would be far too easy and probably be opposed by the unions and quangos anyway.

Grayson

doolox wrote: »

Irish is an example of an official policy out of step with the practical realities of everyday life. It is our first Official Language yet very few people use it in everyday contact with government officials such as Tax and Social Welfare. Students spend a lot of time at it because it is one of three core compulsory subjects, other nations spend more time on practical subjects such as Maths and Science to the detriment of our students ability to compete in the modern globalised economy. More time should be spent at school by most average students in sharpening their Maths and general Communications skills and while Irish may help in the communications side of things, a modern European language at an early age would be more helpful.

Perhaps we should look at what the Welsh are doing with their Language? Do all Welsh residents have to study Welsh at all Primary and Secondary Schools in the Principality? Is the study of Welsh concentrated in Welsh speaking areas?

A similar thing happens in Scotland where only the native speakers or people wanting to work in areas with a significant native speaking population have to learn the Scots Gaelic language.

In Ireland everybody has to learn 14 yrs of Irish yet only 1% are native speakers.

It's something I mention whenever this topic comes up. The question isn't should we be teaching Irish to kids but rather can we? After nearly a hundred years of compulsory Irish most people can't speak it. Most students end up learning phrases and sentences off by rote for the oral exams. Unless we can change the syllabus to insure that after 14 years of daily lessons our kids can speak it then we might as well give up. We're flushing time and money down the toilet.

riclad

FIrst year secondary,every one gets a form ,
Do you wish to study irish.Its voluntary .sign here .
yes,no.

OR maybe consider studying a subject that has some relevance to real life in 2016.
And that may help you get a job.
french,german,science, computer coding .chemistry .I went to class,s in irish i put zero effort in irish.
it had no effect on my life.
I put effort into real subjects, history,chemistry,english etc
irish is great if you are going to work in tg4, or as an irish teacher.
maybe 1 per cent of jobs in the real world.

wakka12

Pugzilla wrote: »

It's extremely inefficient. It's a communication system at the end of the day. They all serve the same purpose, so why not just use one?

Its more than that. Its a huge part of human culture. Food is just fuel for the body after all, why don't we all just eat some kind of blended mush that includes all the calories and fat and nutrients we need for the day instead of eating creating a variety of complex dishes and foods we like... Diversity is something that should be valued.

Pugzilla

wakka12 wrote: »

Its more than that. Its a huge part of human culture. Food is just fuel for the body after all, why don't we all just eat some kind of blended mush that includes all the calories and fat and nutrients we need for the day instead of eating creating a variety of complex dishes and foods we like... Diversity is something that should be valued.

It's a problem when most of the world's populaton cannot understand each other.

wakka12

Pugzilla wrote: »

It's a problem when most of the world's populaton cannot understand each other.

Fair enough. Im sure some kind of real time voice translator will be created in the future though, doesn't seem that outlandish to me. And seems like a more ethical route to pursue than killing off all world languages but one.