AirBnB Megathread - ALL A&P related Airbnb discussion here please

friendlybee

Deleted User wrote: »

So we live in an estate that has 200 houses and 20 apartments. We are house no. 15. The occupiers in apt. no 15 are Airbnb hosts.

At least every 2 days we are getting people knocking on our door, mistakenly thinking we are Airbnb hosts. We knocked on Apt. 15, and asked them to be more specific with the directions. They said they would, but it is still constantly happening. Our neighbours have even rang us while we were in work saying that there were confused visitors lingering outside our house and peering in our windows.

Any ideas on how to resolve this? Thanks.

This can be so annoying.....your best bet is to complain to the management company about this if this issue has not been resolved or charge the hosts for disturbing you everytime

Graham

FA Hayek wrote: »

Sounds like typical NIBYism so. Residents of course have a stake in this, just like residents have a say in gang warfare and the war on drugs.

It is in residents best interests to get in front of the issue, not hide behind old planning laws and then get angry when there is no enforcement on the issue.

The planning laws you're referring to are not 'old planning laws', they are current planning laws.

I do agree it's in resident best interests to 'get in front of the issue'. Lobbying their TDs, complaining to Management Companies and lodging complaints with the local authority over planning breaches sounds like a good starting place.

Yixian

Hey guys, I'm a 28 year old doctor working in Aus and I've never owned a house so forgive me for any potential naivety/noobishness.
Aus is a great country particularly for doctor's but it's just too far from family and my dream is to spend part of the year here and part back in Europe, so I'm looking into the idea of buying a house in Dublin that I would rent out for 6-8 months of the year, then live in it myself for the other 4. It would have to have 2 bedrooms and I would like it to be central.
I'm told in a city like London you can do this quite easily by sticking your property on Airbnb and paying an Airbnb "agent" company to deal with keys and cleaning etc.
Is such a thing possible in Dublin? When I google stats on the occupancy rates, they actually seem to be roughly equivalent - but that's still only around 110 days per year, and if the average rental cost per day is about 110 euro then that makes this model seemingly infeasible.
I'm not looking to make money, I just want a home in Dublin that pays for itself. Not that that isn't a tall order in itself, but I don't expect a return, just the ability to live near my family for part of the year.
Any advice much appreciated.

Peregrinus

Renting out on Air BnB you are mainly getting weekend lets - 110 days a year is a bit over two days a week, you'll notice. Plus, it's seasonal - in the high season you'll get midweek lets and weekly lets, but balance that in the low season where you don't get many lets even at weekends. (Who wants to spend a weekend in Dublin in November or February?)

So an important question will be what time of the year your four months will be. If you plan in being in Ireland from May till September, that's a much bigger chunk out of your rentals than if you plan on doing January to April.

Second thing to think about is tax. Your rental income is taxable. Against that you can set your mortgage interest (but not principal repayments) but - you need qualified advice here, which this is not - I think you're going to have to apportion your annual interest. The interest for the period when you are in occupation is not deductible; the interest for the period when the house is available for letting is deductible. So if you occupy the house 4 months a year, only 2/3rds of the interests is deductible for tax purposes.

I'd be surprised if the house would pay for itself being let to tourists only two-thirds of the year. If that were true, then a house let for the full year would be a massively, massively profitable investment, paying extraordinary returns; why would we expect that situation to persist? If that were the case, investors would pile in, which would (a) drive up the price of suitable h houses and (b) drive down the rental rates that those houses could command.

Consider a simpler scenario; you're a young doctor in Australia earning a nice income and with reasonable prospects of a nicer income in time. You'd like to have an out-of-town weekender that you and your family could use with reasonable frequency, but certainly not all the time. If you buy a suitable house and let it out via a website, blocking out one weekend a month, plus say a two-week school holiday for yourself, do you expect the letting income from the remaining dates to pay for the house? You do not, because you are competing with houses that are available for letting 365 days a year, and even they don't necessarily pay for themselves.

It's the same with the house in Dublin, except that your expenses in Dublin are going to be higher - you'll have to pay someone in Dublin to do all the jobs you'd do yourself if the place were closer to home, like keeping an eye on it, and changing lightbulbs as required, and arranging any maintenance or repairs that arise (and they will arise a lot, in a tourist let).

This is not going to pay for itself in financial terms from rental income along, but you might do it if (a) it enhances your lifestyle to a degree that you are willing and able to pay for, or (b) you are confident that capital appreciation will make it a good investment in the long term.

0000000000

Hi, I am having the same problem. My current insurer has notified me that my policy is void if I continue air bnb so I would be grateful if someone could send me details of the insurance company that will cover air bnb as currently my insurance has lapsed and I have air bnb bookings that I do not want to be cancelling, any help would be grateful..

katy39

Why is airbnb the only holiday let company compelled to provide information about there clients to the tax office ? Or am I wrong ?

athtrasna

The good folk in the taxation forum may be able to give you a precise answer on that

newacc2015

katy39 wrote: »

Why is airbnb the only holiday let company compelled to provide information about there clients to the tax office ? Or am I wrong ?

Because it is big enough that Revenue would want to go after it. The other holiday let companies are small enough compared to the Airbnb. I wouldn't be surprised the fact Airbnb is resident in the state is a factor too. I imagine it would be very difficult to make an American based firm hand over tax details

katy39

Can your management company stop you from letting your property short time in a block in which it is mostly long term lets? Has any one heard of it happening? Or would the owners have to vote on it ?

Robineen

katy39 wrote: »

Can your management company stop you from letting your property short time in a block in which it is mostly long term lets? Has any one heard of it happening? Or would the owners have to vote on it ?

The management company at the Spencer Dock apartments banned AirBnB lets.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/spencer-dock-dwellers-seek-clarity-on-airbnb-ban-1.2838457

I don't know a whole lot about management companies but I'm sure rules can be changed. I presume that any rule change would have take into account the rights of the people living there because owners who don't live in the complex won't really care. Having said that, tenants wouldn't get any say as they don't pay the management fees themselves usually. But even if a management company did change the rules to allow AirBnB lets, it might not make that much difference as planning must be applied for and I don't know how easy that would be to get in an densely populated residential building such as an apartment block.

athtrasna

It's not a rule that can be changed easily as it's often a condition of planning permission. Please don't say you don't know and then go on to give the wrong advice Robineen.

And beyond that, there are insurance and wear and tear issues, a management company would be foolish to even consider short term lets as it would increase the costs for everyone in the block

Robineen

My post was very obviously musing about she asked. It's very obvious from reading it that I am not giving concrete advice.

katy39

athtrasna wrote: »

It's not a rule that can be changed easily as it's often a condition of planning permission. Please don't say you don't know and then go on to give the wrong advice Robineen.

And beyond that, there are insurance and wear and tear issues, a management company would be foolish to even consider short term lets as it would increase the costs for everyone in the block

So the rules would have to be changed to allow you to short let, I Though it would be the other way round in that they would have to bring in a rule to stop you ?:(

athtrasna

katy39 wrote: »

So the rules would have to be changed to allow you to short let, I Though it would be the other way round in that they would have to bring in a rule to stop you ?:(

It depends on the planning and clauses in the contract signed at purchase but there's a standard clause in apartment purchase contracts strictly prohibiting short term lets

katy39

athtrasna wrote: »

It depends on the planning and clauses in the contract signed at purchase but there's a standard clause in apartment purchase contracts strictly prohibiting short term lets

id like to ask the management company but I dont want to get the eye on myself

Baby01032012

I was thinking of asking some short term letting companies that look after airbnb rentals. I'd be interested to get their view, have they lost clients due to management companies clamping down on such rentals.

TSQ

katy39 wrote: »

id like to ask the management company but I dont want to get the eye on myself

Do you have a copy of the lease which forms part of your title documents? This will tell you if short-term lets are disallowed. In most blocks it is unlikely to be specifically excluded (since Airbnb is a recent phenomenon), but such an exclusion might become standard in the future. Most leases expressly disallow using apartment for operating a business: doing airbnb could be classed as such, although it would take a court case to determine.

However, most leases forbid letting an apartment "by the room" (except in case of owner-occupiers house sharing) - in other words the apartment must be let as a single unit. This doesn't seem to stop landlords on Daft advertising apartments that would "suit students" priced by the room or even by the bed. (I have seen 2 bedroom apartments advertised with photos of bunk beds for 6 people.).

If you don't have a copy of your lease to hand, I suggest you ask the management company for a photocopy of a standard lease between the apartment owner and management company. You should be able to request this without any difficulty.

BennytheBall

Looking for some advice from anyone who may have gone down the route of switching from traditional renting of an investment property to AirBnb.

My property is a 1 bed apartment in Dublin city centre and I figure I should get high occupancy.

I am looking into this option at present but not sure of the following:

1) Is this considered a valid reason to give existing tenants notice under the heading of "changing the use of the property"... is a switch from traditional tenancy to AirBnb tenancy a valid reason for giving notice in this regard

2) Can expenses incurred as a result of AirBnb letting be offset against income in the same way as expenses from traditional rental income. e.g. if I used an AirBnb letting agent

I'd also be interested in hearing feedback from anyone who has gone this route and how it has worked out.

JP 1800

You are going to run into a lot of problems if you think that you can serve a notice to tenants and try to go down the Air BnB route. This is the definition of gouging and you will run afoul of the PRTB, other owner occupiers in the building and also it may be against the planning permission given to the development.

Samuel T. Cogley

As above I don't think it would be possible to give notice to the current tenants, basically because it's not a change of use - so this is where I disagree - planning is very unlikely to be an issue given the current scheme of things. Frankly it should be, but practically, except for one building in Temple Bar it's not.

Expenses etc. are pretty much the same.

Interesting double edged sword if planning is made a requirement. Planning = change of use, therefore reason to terminate lease perhaps?

crunchy62

I'm sure this has been touched on before in the case of investment properties but my case is different.

I own my house and have enough extra space adjoined to convert to a 3 bedroom apartment. There is door access to the area from the house so should satisfy the rent a room requirement for this. I would hope to get about €1200/month plus for the apartment.

Alternatively I'm in a good area for B&B and so was thinking of maybe going the airbnb route. I also have a few extra leisure activities I can offer to guests.

Would anyone have any suggestions on which would be the best option?

I should point out that this is not just for an extra income but would be a major part of my overall income.

__Alex__

The maximum rent you can take in to qualify for rent a room is €14,000 per annum so the maximum you can charge a month is just under €1167 a month. Just wanted to point that out as it might be pertinent to your deciding how to proceed.

__Alex__

To get the same volume of business as AirBnB, they'd need to be as big as AirBnB and therefore as visible. Once as visible as AirBnB, they'd be under the same level of scrutiny.

BennytheBall

Thanks for all the useful input.

Regarding gouging - for the last 18 months JP my tenants have been getting a great rent, lower than the market when the lease extended (currently about 350e less per mth) and with the 4% rent cap I have no way to re-align with the current market rent due to the timing of the legislation. That's why I was considering the AirBnb option, not to gouge but I would like to maximise revenue from this investment especially considering I haven't been able to do so for 18 months.

Seems this may not be an option based on feedback here

76544567

BennytheBall wrote: »

Thanks for all the useful input.

Regarding gouging - for the last 18 months JP my tenants have been getting a great rent, lower than the market when the lease extended (currently about 350e less per mth) and with the 4% rent cap I have no way to re-align with the current market rent due to the timing of the legislation. That's why I was considering the AirBnb option, not to gouge but I would like to maximise revenue from this investment especially considering I haven't been able to do so for 18 months.

Seems this may not be an option based on feedback here

If you read my posts you'll see that I am in exactly the same position and you'll see what I've been doing about it. Still in the process though.

marcher

Please can someone please also send me the details as my insurance company have just issued me a 10 days notice when i ask them to cover this on renewal.

pasquale83

Folks, can we really avail of the rent-a-room relief when renting out another room with Airbnb?

Any comments is appreciated! Thanks!

Query
i want to enquire if you can avail of rent a room allowance as well as doing b&b in your home i.e. one room to long term renter and one room b&b. Also how long is considered long enough to rent a room out for it to qualify under the rent a room allowance (what is the minimum number of weeks/months that qualifies . . .?)

Reply
“Dear Madam Having reviewed the matter and under the circumstances you have outlined a room in a property can be let under the rent a room scheme while a separate room is used as guest accommodation for the purposes of B&B. Guidance is available on our website with a view to helping establish the length and duration to avail of the rent a room relief. Those who are residing with you under the rent a room scheme would be treating their accommodation as their place of abode please refer to S.216A Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 & S.473 for further guidance.”

jd

It seems not
Those who are residing with you under the rent a room scheme would be treating their accommodation as their place of abode

pasquale83

jd wrote: »

It seems not
Those who are residing with you under the rent a room scheme would be treating their accommodation as their place of abode

well, that's alright, isn't it?
maybe I don't fully understand what "place of abode" means.
what does it legally imply?

Michael D Not Higgins

pasquale83 wrote: »

Folks, can we really avail of the rent-a-room relief when renting out another room with Airbnb?

Any comments is appreciated! Thanks!

Query
i want to enquire if you can avail of rent a room allowance as well as doing b&b in your home i.e. one room to long term renter and one room b&b. Also how long is considered long enough to rent a room out for it to qualify under the rent a room allowance (what is the minimum number of weeks/months that qualifies . . .?)

Reply
“Dear Madam Having reviewed the matter and under the circumstances you have outlined a room in a property can be let under the rent a room scheme while a separate room is used as guest accommodation for the purposes of B&B. Guidance is available on our website with a view to helping establish the length and duration to avail of the rent a room relief. Those who are residing with you under the rent a room scheme would be treating their accommodation as their place of abode please refer to S.216A Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 & S.473 for further guidance.”

You've asked this question several times in the forum. You need to speak to a tax professional.

Edit: and one of the last times you asked Revenue they told you you couldn't claim rent a room and do AirBnB at the same time. Asking us or Revenue multiple times isn't going to get you out of your tax obligations.