Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

irishbucsfan

whatawaster wrote: »

It's looking like

M Vunipola, McGrath, Marler
Owens, Best, George
Furlong, Cole, Sinkler
AWJ, Ryan, Kruis
Itoje, Lawes, Henderson
Stander, O'Mahony
Warburton, Tipuric, O'Brien
Faletau, B Vunipola

Murray, Webb, Youngs
Sexton, Farrell, Biggar
Henshaw, Roberts
Davies, Te'o
North, Williams, Daly, Earls, Seymour, Watson
Hogg, Halfpenny


(14 English, 12 Welsh, 12 Irish, 2 Scottish)

If that is the squad I'm happy with it. I'd probably bring Ringrose ahead of Te'o and Zebo ahead of Earls but those are minor quibbles.

Dave_The_Sheep

Lot of rugby to be played before here and the first test. So injuries will likely change a good bit of the squad makeup.

Any stats on how many callups changed in previous years between announcement and the actual series?

Buer

sydthebeat wrote: »

North, J Davies and Roberts (if reports are true) are all very lucky gatland is coach.

None can come as too much of a surprise. Roberts might raise some eyebrows but the bloke has been world class for large parts of his career, has delivered for the Lions in the past and should still be near enough to the peak of his powers physically.

I think people are overly critical of some of the Welsh lads purely because of who the coach is. If we're going to look at someone Welsh who is lucky to get on the plane, I'd say Faletau or, if he goes, Biggar is absolutely blessed to get a call. Paddy Jackson can actually be disappointed if Biggar goes.

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

that is the squad I'm happy with it.  I'd probably bring Ringrose ahead of Te'o and Zebo ahead of Earls but those are minor quibbles.

Earls is a centre as well as a winger and fullback *duck and run for cover*
What time is the announcement, does anyone know?

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Earls is a centre as well as a winger and fullback *duck and run for cover*
What time is the announcement, does anyone know?

12.00

That team is interesting. I suppose you could call T'eo the bolter but otherwise it's pretty clear what the intent is with that team. Plenty of power but a reasonable level of mobility also.

No real nuance though, Sexton and Farrell are going to need to have really strong performances for this team to be anything other than one dimensional.

PetKing

PetKing wrote: »

When do the players find out themselves out of curiousity? Does Gatland ring them personally?

They find out at the squad announcement but they will know in advance if they are formally in the reckoning.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Just got sent a photo of Warburton doing the Captains photoshoot with the coaches. That's one rumour that's true anyway!

irishbucsfan

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Lot of rugby to be played before here and the first test. So injuries will likely change a good bit of the squad makeup.

Any stats on how many callups changed in previous years between announcement and the actual series?

Saw this tweeted earlier:

https://twitter.com/OwainJTJones/status/854448756514852864

Buer

BDJW wrote: »

Just got sent a photo of Warburton doing the Captains photoshoot with the coaches. That's one rumour that's true anyway!

It's on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/BackseatSport/status/854611507799314433/photo/1

Done and dusted.

irishbucsfan

Sure he's not even that good. He's just a gangly Welsh fellah. They only make him captain because he knows Gareth Bale and they're hoping he might play on the wing.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Buer wrote: »

It's on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/BackseatSport/status/854611507799314433/photo/1

Done and dusted.

Yep, that's the photo I saw

Webbs

Buer wrote: »

I do find a little curious the potential selection of guys like Marler and Biggar. The importance of bringing a sense of camraderie to the group has been stressed before and John Spencer pointed out only this week that personalities will need to be considered in terms of guys who will get along and make for a good atmosphere.

Blokes like Biggar and Marler are hardly good examples of that. Both are known for their questionable temperament and I don't see them as the type who will bring a huge amount of good feeling to the group. With Marler, I think he's the beneficiary of Rowntree's presence.

Have seen Marler being interviewed and he comes across as a really chilled funny guy. Always had the opposite opinion of him until seeing that. Have also heard interviews with a couple of the Welsh lads who had nothing but good things to say about him and this was in the aftermath of the Samson Lee incident.
On field persona can be very different to off field, Farrell is another one.

Former Former

whatawaster wrote: »

It's looking like

M Vunipola, McGrath, Marler
Owens, Best, George
Furlong, Cole, Sinkler
AWJ, Ryan, Kruis
Itoje, Lawes, Henderson
Stander, O'Mahony
Warburton, Tipuric, O'Brien
Faletau, B Vunipola

Murray, Webb, Youngs
Sexton, Farrell, Biggar
Henshaw, Roberts
Davies, Te'o
North, Williams, Daly, Earls, Seymour, Watson
Hogg, Halfpenny


(14 English, 12 Welsh, 12 Irish, 2 Scottish)

Seems that way.

Marler is lucky. Rest of front row is grand.

Ryan and Henderson are fortunate to be ahead of R Gray and Launchbury. Courtney Lawes should never have been in the conversation at any level.

Happy enough with that back row.

Scrum halves pick themselves. Biggar gets in by default almost, he shot himself in the foot less often than Ford and Russell.

Jamie Roberts is utterly bizarre. I can't understand it on any level. What he brings that Henshaw and Te'o do not is beyond me. Shocking call.

Wings and FBs are fine, but I've seen Nowell mentioned as a pick too.

OldRio

BDJW wrote: »

Yep, that's the photo I saw

Is he still 'injured'? Or just managed?

jr86

Buer wrote: »

I do find a little curious the potential selection of guys like Marler and Biggar. The importance of bringing a sense of camraderie to the group has been stressed before and John Spencer pointed out only this week that personalities will need to be considered in terms of guys who will get along and make for a good atmosphere.

Blokes like Biggar and Marler are hardly good examples of that. Both are known for their questionable temperament and I don't see them as the type who will bring a huge amount of good feeling to the group. With Marler, I think he's the beneficiary of Rowntree's presence.

Marler is generally cited by England/quins team mates as one of the biggest characters in the team

Watch his interviews on YouTube he's actually a very funny guy

jr86

Webbs wrote: »

Have seen Marler being interviewed and he comes across as a really chilled funny guy. Always had the opposite opinion of him until seeing that. Have also heard interviews with a couple of the Welsh lads who had nothing but good things to say about him and this was in the aftermath of the Samson Lee incident.
On field persona can be very different to off field, Farrell is another one.

Yeah think it was sexton who said Farrell was one of the most popular guys on the last tour, got on brilliantly with everyone

Cookiemunster

Buer wrote: »

It's on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/BackseatSport/status/854611507799314433/photo/1

Done and dusted.

Brett Gosper just congratulated him on twitter.

Teferi

Uninspired coach, uninspired captain and if even half of the reports are true then it's going to be an uninspired squad. Really not doing much for my excitement levels.

thomond2006

Teferi wrote: »

Uninspired coach, uninspired captain and if even half of the reports are true then it's going to be an uninspired squad. Really not doing much for my excitement levels.

I've fallen a bit out of love with it too. Yet I think back to the 2013 tour where Conor Murray returned a better player for it, same with Rob Kearney in 2009. Hopefully the same can happen again.

Quint2010

Of the Irish I think SOB and Earls are lucky to go.

Buer

I don't see why people would take huge issue with Warburton as captain. He has done it before, had a great 6N and anyone who has dealt with him (media, coaches, fellow players) speak glowingly about him in terms of his all round leadership.

Thornley was on the radio last week waxing lyrical about what an outstanding person he is to deal with the media, for example.

Who else would people have had?

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Lot of rugby to be played before here and the first test. So injuries will likely change a good bit of the squad makeup.

Any stats on how many callups changed in previous years between announcement and the actual series?

Saw this tweeted earlier:

https://twitter.com/OwainJTJones/status/854448756514852864

So that's saying a 44 man squad. That's getting to 2005 levels of overkill.

thomond2006

bilston wrote: »

So that's saying a 44 man squad. That's getting to 2005 levels of overkill.

I think he means 44 players or thereabouts are likely to feature due to injuries?

In 2013 Corbisiero was a late callup and went on to feature in the tests. Tom Croft replaced Quinlan in 2009 and played in the tests.
So history would suggest someone not named today will have a prominent role in the test series.

whatawaster

bilston wrote: »

So that's saying a 44 man squad. That's getting to 2005 levels of overkill.

No, it's saying 2005 had a 44 man squad

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think he means 44 players or thereabouts are likely to feature due to injuries?

In 2013 Corbisiero was a late callup and went on to feature in the tests. Tom Croft replaced Quinlan in 2009 and played in the tests.

Ryan Jones and Simon Easterby were probably the two best players for the Lions in 2005 and neither were on the original list.

thomond2006

Hayes in 2009. How could I forget.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

I don't see why people would take huge issue with Warburton as captain. He has done it before, had a great 6N and anyone who has dealt with him (media, coaches, fellow players) speak glowingly about him in terms of his all round leadership.

Thornley was on the radio last week waxing lyrical about what an outstanding person he is to deal with the media, for example.

Who else would people have had?

Warburton is the best choice, I may not have said that 3 months ago but he has come right back into form at the right time. Even in his short period he was on the field against Ulster last week he was very good.

I do have an issue with the coach though and the coaching team in general. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not certain they are the right men with the honourable exception of Steve Borthwick. Joe Schmidt, Paul Gustard and Gregor Townsend are three guys I'd love to be leading the Lions rather than Gatland, Farrell and Howley.

If there is a consistent number of injuries over a protracted number of tours requiring a minimum of 5 late call ups per tour then there is a valid argument of taking a wider initial squad.

It only looks wasteful if the injuries are kept to a minimal or are all in one or two positions but it probably makes sense.

Webbs

Former Former wrote: »

Seems that way.

Marler is lucky. Rest of front row is grand.

Ryan and Henderson are fortunate to be ahead of R Gray and Launchbury. Courtney Lawes should never have been in the conversation at any level.

Happy enough with that back row.

Scrum halves pick themselves. Biggar gets in by default almost, he shot himself in the foot less often than Ford and Russell.

Jamie Roberts is utterly bizarre. I can't understand it on any level. What he brings that Henshaw and Te'o do not is beyond me. Shocking call.

Wings and FBs are fine, but I've seen Nowell mentioned as a pick too.

All I can think of with Roberts is taking him as an experienced on field leader for the midweek team which is needed. He can obviously slot in if needed with injuries to test team
I fully expect O'Mahoney if picked to be the captain but Roberts has been the defensive coordinator when playing for Wales and would imagine he will take up this role.
Seeing how tough the tour is and with the midweek games going to be intense affairs then experience will be a necessary factor.

thomond2006

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If there is a consistent number of injuries over a protracted number of tours requiring a minimum of 5 late call ups per tour then there is a valid argument of taking a wider initial squad.

It only looks wasteful if the injuries are kept to a minimal or are all in one or two positions but it probably makes sense.

Given the fees to unions and players I'd say a 38 man squad comes down to money.