Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Former Former

Erik Shin wrote: »

A few rumours that Rory Best isn't going, surely that's a load of bull?

All I've seen is that it's three from four - one of Owens, George, Best and Hartley to lose out, but no indication as to which it will be.

Sean Cronin to travel as a centre, obvs.

ClanofLams

sydthebeat wrote: »

seeing as the bookies have a 3-0 white wash to NZ at odds of 10/11 ... its not much of a prediction.

Slightly better than calling Sarries this weekend so. Didn't claim it was a great call or anything, was just pointing out that Ireland would be best off with as few as possible travelling.

bilston

ClanofLams wrote: »

sydthebeat wrote: »

seeing as the bookies have a 3-0 white wash to NZ at odds of 10/11 ... its not much of a prediction.

Slightly better than calling Sarries this weekend so. Didn't claim it was a great call or anything, was just pointing out that Ireland would be best off with as few as possible travelling.

Of course it is better for all the "Home" Nations if fewer of their players travel, but then a lot of these guys will see this as the pinnacle of their career.

I have to admit I've been fairly meh about this tour for a while...BUT...the closer we get the more I'm looking forward to it.

ClanofLams

bilston wrote: »

Of course it is better for all the "Home" Nations if fewer of their players travel, but then a lot of these guys will see this as the pinnacle of their career.

I have to admit I've been fairly meh about this tour for a while...BUT...the closer we get the more I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah that's always the case but with SA and Australia you forget it a little because there's a chance of a tour victory, at the very minimum a test victory (can't recall when lions last failed to win a test in SA/Aus) but with NZ at the moment a whitewash seems inevitable.

I don't think many guys see it as the pinnacle anymore to be honest, a lions win over there might be but there's very little chance of that. I can't imagine Sexton for example thinks beating a bad Oz side four years ago was the pinnacle.

Of course for individuals you'd be hoping they get picked but big picture would think Schmidt is secretly hoping any marginal calls don't go the way of Irish players.

The schedule is insane, there's gonna be a lot of injuries I would think and the inevitable hangover.

Clegg

.

Clegg

The selection leaks being published in the media are doing a lot to diminish my enthusiasm for the Lions tbh. Selecting players who are familiar with your systems makes sense as you have a very limited time frame for them to gel. But for me the big appeal of the Lions is seeing the best players in Britain and Ireland come together as a squad. Leaving out the likes of Launchbury and Joseph for Te'o and A/N lock cheapens the tour.

I'd even leave North out of the tour completely. Hasn't shown sustained run of good form in a long time. Although, I may be in the minority there. I do believe that form is temporary and clss permanent. But he hasn't shown that class in so long.

bilston

ClanofLams wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Of course it is better for all the "Home" Nations if fewer of their players travel, but then a lot of these guys will see this as the pinnacle of their career.

I have to admit I've been fairly meh about this tour for a while...BUT...the closer we get the more I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah that's always the case but with SA and Australia you forget it a little because there's a chance of a tour victory, at the very minimum a test victory (can't recall when lions last failed to win a test in SA/Aus) but with NZ at the moment a whitewash seems inevitable.

I don't think many guys see it as the pinnacle anymore to be honest, a lions win over there might be but there's very little chance of that. I can't imagine Sexton for example thinks beating a bad Oz side four years ago was the pinnacle.

Of course for individuals you'd be hoping they get picked but big picture would think Schmidt is secretly hoping any marginal calls don't go the way of Irish players.

The schedule is insane, there's gonna be a lot of injuries I would think and the inevitable hangover.

It's a tough tour and unfortunately there will be a bit of collateral damage along the way.

As far as the result goes, I don't think whitewash is inevitable. We beat NZ, I fancy England would run them very close, certainly in Twickenham, yes the players don't have a lot of prep time but really the best players from England and Ireland should be able to beat NZ on any given day, throw in a few Welsh guys and maybe Stuart Hogg and the chances should be even better. Of course the Lions don't have Jones or Schmidt coaching them.

NZ are good, but while they made a mockery of the Rugby Championship last season, it should be pointed out that Australia and South Africa were pretty poor and Argentina appear to be rebuilding after the WC as well.

I expect NZ to win, and yes it may well be 3-0, but I think the tests will be pretty close, and hopefully the Lions can nick one of the first two test matches to keep the series live right to the end. The we'll see.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

As far as the result goes, I don't think whitewash is inevitable. We beat NZ, I fancy England would run them very close, certainly in Twickenham, yes the players don't have a lot of prep time but really the best players from England and Ireland should be able to beat NZ on any given day, throw in a few Welsh guys and maybe Stuart Hogg and the chances should be even better. Of course the Lions don't have Jones or Schmidt coaching them.

That doesn't take into account one of the biggest challenges of the Lions, though. They're a thrown together team with a few weeks of preparation.

Phil Larder was interviewed about the 2005 tour. He was defensive coach with England for a long time and the same for the 2001 and 2005 Lions. He reckons that the England team would have run NZ significantly closer in 2005 (note, closer, not beat them). The issue was that they were trying to integrate a group of players who never played alongside one another and struggled to form a cohesive team. A less talented but more cohseive and better drilled side would stand a better chance.

On a similar note, we would love to see them flinging the ball around but it's not going to happen. You can't develop that sort of game plan in that space of time. You need to have a handful of set plays, an incredibly aggressive pack at the breakdown, a great set piece, no weak links defensively and a top goal kicker. Those are your nuts and bolts.

It's boring, it's pragmatic but it's the way it is. I think it's the only way to win.

Teferi

Rightwing wrote: »

Exactly.

Just like the way he axed BOD, absolutely no questions if you win. If he doesn't he is certainly open to criticism given that Eng have been the best over the last 2 years.

What are you on about? There's plenty of valid criticism of the last Tour. We should have spanked that Aussie outfit 3-0, instead we played 65 minutes of good rugby over 3 Tests and came away with a 2-1 victory.

Buer

Teferi wrote: »

What are you on about? There's plenty of valid criticism of the last Tour. We should have spanked that Aussie outfit 3-0, instead we played 65 minutes of good rugby over 3 Tests and came away with a 2-1 victory.

Not only 3-0, that should have been the first Lions tour in history to win every game. Australia were completely there for the taking. But the record was gone before that against the Brumbies.

The notion of playing Stuart Hogg at 10 was a complete shambles in a backline that featured an three quarters made up entirely of replacement/cover call ups including Shane Williams.

It was a farce of a game and was an embarrassment to the concept of the Lions which should represent the best of the home unions.

Personally I don't think Gatland is going to go hard Welsh this tour. He seems much more distant from the Wales team this year and they've performed poorly over the last 12 months.

I suspect it will be a predominately English / Irish team with a contingent of Welsh and a few token Scots.

Rightwing

He'll pick the best squad, no question about that. People will have their biases, but at the end of the day that's all they are, biases.

thomond2006

Based on PP's odds:

(21)
Owens, Best, George
McGrath, Vunipola, Marler
Sinckler, Furlong, Cole
Wyn-Jones, Henderson, D Ryan, J Gray, Lawes
Itoje, Stander, Tipuric, Warburton, SOB
Faletau, Vunipola

(17)
Murray, Webb, Youngs
Sexton, Biggar
Henshaw, Farrell, T'eo, Davies, Joseph, Ringrose
North, L Williams, Watson, Daly, Nowell
Hogg, Halfpenny

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

Based on PP's odds:

(21)
Owens, Best, George
McGrath, Vunipola, Marler
Sinckler, Furlong, Cole
Wyn-Jones, Henderson, D Ryan, J Gray, Lawes
Itoje, Stander, Tipuric, Warburton, SOB
Faletau, Vunipola

(17)
Murray, Webb, Youngs
Sexton, Biggar
Henshaw, Farrell, T'eo, Davies, Joseph, Ringrose
North, L Williams, Watson, Daly, Nowell
Hogg, Halfpenny

That's a lot of centres and not enough back 3 players imo.

Bazzo

Am I imagining or has Joseph spent some time on the wing?

Buer

Bazzo wrote: »

Am I imagining or has Joseph spent some time on the wing?

He has but not for years now. He played wing when he first came on the scene in the same manner that Ringrose did. Handful of games there in his first season or two before being moved into the 13 jersey and playing there exclusively since.

Absoluvely

The Lions don't have an anthem, or anything in place of an anthem, do they?

awec

.ak wrote: »

That's a lot of centres and not enough back 3 players imo.

It's the same number of back three players as last time (he brought 4 wingers and 3 full backs). Though he did call up Shane Williams later. This time he has Liam Williams who can genuinely play both positions.

He only brought 4 centres initially last time, can't see him increasing that by two.

Buer

A bit under the radar on here but I would be a little concerned with the comments from Erasmus on Murray's recovery today.

“It’s such important games we’re playing now. I don’t think it will be a long-term, surgery, injury. When a nerve gets a good bang it takes time to heal. I think he will be good to go for the Lions series and hopefully sooner for ourselves.”

Whilst Murray will undoubtedly be named tomorrow, that isn't exactly the ringing endorsement of his recovery I would have been hoping for. Seems like it's very much a wait and see situation. We've seen these wind up on the operating table in the past after a good period of the wait and see approach.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

That's a lot of centres and not enough back 3 players imo.

Farrell acts as a third 10 and Henshaw could act as fullback cover?

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

Farrell acts as a third 10 and Henshaw could act as fullback cover?

Henshaw is too big and slow to move back there.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Henshaw is too big and slow to move back there.

Eh? He's played loads of pro rugby at 15.

Rightwing

Buer wrote: »

A bit under the radar on here but I would be a little concerned with the comments from Erasmus on Murray's recovery today.



Whilst Murray will undoubtedly be named tomorrow, that isn't exactly the ringing endorsement of his recovery I would have been hoping for. Seems like it's very much a wait and see situation. We've seen these wind up on the operating table in the past after a good period of the wait and see approach.

I agree, he's not really a loss for the lions, but unfortunately a massive loss for Munster.

b.gud

.ak wrote: »

Henshaw is too big and slow to move back there.

thomond2006

.ak doesn't count appearances for the Leinster academy.

Former Former

With the squad announced tomorrow, why not kill a bit of time by reading the early posts in this thread, going back to September?

I'm particularly proud of my "Dan Lydiate is the front runner for the 6 jersey" contribution.

Ball In Towards

Erik Shin wrote: »

A few rumours that Rory Best isn't going, surely that's a load of bull?

Best has to be going surely? He was being tipped as a possible captain a few weeks ago!

Carbery as an outside bet?

Interesting John Ryan's into 15/8 on PP to make the squad. .

oneofakind32

What are Marmion's chances tomorrow? Is it even worth speculating? If he is not 3rd choice scrum half would he 4th or 5th? A couple of injuries might see him join the squad. 

Former Former

oneofakind32 wrote: »

What are Marmion's chances tomorrow? Is it even worth speculating? If he is not 3rd choice scrum half would he 4th or 5th? A couple of injuries might see him join the squad. 

Nah, Care, Wigglesworth, Davies, Laidlaw would all be ahead of him, at a minimum.

irishbucsfan

Buer I honestly thought you'd get a job writing for a better crowd than this: https://www.balls.ie/football/jamie-roberts-363373