Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

D14Rugby

Morris Moss wrote: »

Take out Henshaw and put in Davies and I think that's it.

Yeah that was my change I think Gatland will go with Davies but for me he hasn't played enough or well enough when he has. But him and Henshaw is like 10, whoever you pick it won't get weaker

bilston

Realistically we know 12/13 of the test side

Vunipola, George, Furlong, Kruis, Itoje, No.6, O'Brien, Faletau

Murray, No.10, North, No.12, Davies, Watson, Halfpenny

It's POM v Warburton and Sexton v Farrell v Te'o

There is very little justification for picking Warburton over POM other than the fact he is tour captain.

The signs are Te'o starts 12 and then it's down to Sexton and Farrell. The English media would have you believe there is only one winner, I reckon it's a very tight call. But then I'd still play both.

The bench is where it's interesting for me.

McGrath, Owens and Sinclair would be my front row replacements, I'd take Henderson over AWJ as an impact player. You could argue the same for Stander over Warburton but there is very little chance Warburton gets left out completely, plus CJ hasn't really got going yet on tour. Webb covers 9, No.22 depends on the midfield make up and I would give the No.23 shirt to Daly.

pickarooney

Ha'porth on a RTPP, might not make it for Saturday.

D14Rugby

Big thing I'd say stander has is the fact that him on the bench assuming a backrow of pom sob and Faletau you're covering everywhere to a very good level. If Warburton is on the bench if Faletau gets injured O'brien has to go 8 and I don't think he's a good enough 8 for against the all blacks.
Just watched the Maori game again and sexton was brilliant there, really staked his claim.
I can really see a good argument for swapping in players in backrow, 10, 12,13 depending on selectiond for the second test if we win the first so that in the 3rd test everyone's fresh. it doesnt really weaken the team but will mean more players are up to speed and more are peak condition.

irishbucsfan

I think people are particularly off their rockers if they think Warburton isn't making the 23

I'm amazed that no one in work has copped that I've been opting to work from home in a very specific pattern the last few weeks...

Erik Shin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm amazed that no one in work has copped that I've been opting to work from home in a very specific pattern the last few weeks...

Oh, they know... they're just grateful for the peace and quiet

Buer

Very good piece on the making of the 1997 Living With Lions doc. Amazing the risk the makers took. No backing, remortgaging the house, no agreement to have mics on coaches etc. Was unbelievably fortunate that it all came together and the players accepted them.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/40335537

I'm sure people will roll their eyes at this but looking at POM's game against the Maori, what did he do to get into the test side? Didn't tackle (made 1, that's ONE), didn't carry the ball (3 carries for 1 metre gained), didn't win a turnover, didn't win an opposition lineout. Did alright with the ref but if he hadn't been on screen a few times talking to him you'd have forgotten he was on the pitch.

Someone feel free to disagree with me and explain what impact he had.

Erik Shin

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

I'm sure people will roll their eyes at this but looking at POM's game against the Maori, what did he do to get into the test side? Didn't tackle (made 1, that's ONE), didn't carry the ball (3 carries for 1 metre gained), didn't win a turnover, didn't win an opposition lineout. Did alright with the ref but if he hadn't been on screen a few times talking to him you'd have forgotten he was on the pitch.

Someone feel free to disagree with me and explain what impact he had.

"PASHUN" levels went up 1034% .....just amazed you didn't recognise it

Erik Shin

Erik Shin wrote: »

"PASHUN" levels went up 1034% .....just amazed you didn't recognise it

I spotted all the angry faces and pashun.

I just would have to disagree that these particular qualities are those I would seek out in a Lions test backrow.

Erik Shin

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

I spotted all the angry faces and pashun.

I just would have to disagree that these particular qualities are those I would seek out in a Lions test backrow.

Burn the blasphemous heathen!

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Very good piece on the making of the 1997 Living With Lions doc. Amazing the risk the makers took. No backing, remortgaging the house, no agreement to have mics on coaches etc. Was unbelievably fortunate that it all came together and the players accepted them.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/40335537

It's still the best Lions doc too.

irishbucsfan

POM led the defensive line consistently and it was pretty smothering. You don't have to make tackles to be dominant defensively.

irishbucsfan

That documentary was so far ahead of its time, truly brilliant. Big credit to those guys for making it happen

Buer

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

I'm sure people will roll their eyes at this but looking at POM's game against the Maori, what did he do to get into the test side? Didn't tackle (made 1, that's ONE), didn't carry the ball (3 carries for 1 metre gained), didn't win a turnover, didn't win an opposition lineout. Did alright with the ref but if he hadn't been on screen a few times talking to him you'd have forgotten he was on the pitch.

Someone feel free to disagree with me and explain what impact he had.

He wasn't anything spectacular but he didn't need to be. What he needs to be is better than Warburton and he has achieved that. We know what he can bring to the team in terms of breakdown and line out.

He showed intelligence and leadership. When Murray wasn't available at the start of the second half, he stepped in at scrum half for 3 phases. When the ball came out on turnover later on, he knew it needed to go wide and spun it out to the back line with a big pass (it wasn't a great pass but he knew what needed to happen).

The team needs a leader in there and it comes down to AWJ, Warburton and POM. AWJ has had a good tour but Kruis and Itoje have been very good and it would be risky to break up that partnership combined with Jamie George.

POM is one of those guys that makes a team greater than the sum of its parts. Ciaran Fitzgerald wasn't the best hooker available in 1983 but was the Lions captain. POM could be in a similar situation. There are probably better out and out rugby players on tour but POM is playing well and brings qualities beyond the actual play on the field.

I still think it's going to be a very close call between the 3 flankers and wouldn't be shocked to see any combination although, given that Warburton played exclusively at 6 when he came on last week, I think Gatland is looking more at a call between POM and Warburton than Warburton and SOB.

pickarooney

Are we ignoring the Chiefs game?

awec

Use the match thread please http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103853180#post103853180

leakyboots

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

I'm sure people will roll their eyes at this but looking at POM's game against the Maori, what did he do to get into the test side? Didn't tackle (made 1, that's ONE), didn't carry the ball (3 carries for 1 metre gained), didn't win a turnover, didn't win an opposition lineout. Did alright with the ref but if he hadn't been on screen a few times talking to him you'd have forgotten he was on the pitch.

Someone feel free to disagree with me and explain what impact he had.

To quote 3RK, "If your critique of POM starts with an ESPN stat citation, please uppercut yourself repeatedly. Rugby is not played on an excel sheet"

http://threeredkings.com/the-gif-room-seeing-the-unseen/

Involvement in 26% of the total attacking rucks for the Lions for e.g.

There's a reason he's being touted as captain for the first test - the game is made for a fella like him

Buer

leakyboots wrote: »

To quote 3RK, "If your critique of POM starts with an ESPN stat citation, please uppercut yourself repeatedly.

You could largely say the same about a lot of stuff Three Red Kings posts, to be honest. It's hardly an unbiased representation of rugby.

leakyboots

leakyboots wrote: »

To quote 3RK, "If your critique of POM starts with an ESPN stat citation, please uppercut yourself repeatedly. Rugby is not played on an excel sheet"

http://threeredkings.com/the-gif-room-seeing-the-unseen/

Involvement in 26% of the total attacking rucks for the Lions for e.g.

There's a reason he's being touted as captain for the first test - the game is made for a fella like him

To quote their byline, 'for Munster fans, by Munster fans'. I'm sure that piece is entirely fair and balanced. I mean even the gif he picks to showcase his rucking is for a ruck that's already been won, what a strange example.

leakyboots

leakyboots wrote: »

To quote 3RK, "If your critique of POM starts with an ESPN stat citation, please uppercut yourself repeatedly. Rugby is not played on an excel sheet"

http://threeredkings.com/the-gif-room-seeing-the-unseen/

Involvement in 26% of the total attacking rucks for the Lions for e.g.

There's a reason he's being touted as captain for the first test - the game is made for a fella like him

If a site created by Munster fans feels the need to create a 3 page wall of text do defend the performance (or lack thereof) of one of it's favourites it kinda tells you everything.

It's great that POM got to captain the Lions but it came at the cost of the game completely passing him by.

aloooof

Deleted User wrote: »

If a site created by Munster fans feels the need to create a 3 page wall of text do defend the performance (or lack thereof) of one of it's favourites it kinda tells you everything.

Is it that surprising that a Munster fan site wants to discuss the performance of the Munster captain after he captained the Lions??

Christy42

leakyboots wrote: »

To quote 3RK, "If your critique of POM starts with an ESPN stat citation, please uppercut yourself repeatedly. Rugby is not played on an excel sheet"

http://threeredkings.com/the-gif-room-seeing-the-unseen/

Involvement in 26% of the total attacking rucks for the Lions for e.g.

There's a reason he's being touted as captain for the first test - the game is made for a fella like him

I take it that line is a joke? I mean I am pretty sure but this is the Internet. Just the exclaiming that a stat sheet can't quantify a player's worth and following up with a stat.

irishbucsfan

Christy42 wrote: »

I take it that line is a joke? I mean I am pretty sure but this is the Internet. Just the exclaiming that a stat sheet can't quantify a player's worth and following up with a stat.

There's a very clear difference between just stating POM's stat line and asking what he did to using stats as part of an article that points out exactly what he did in depth.

POM has a target on his back for some people. He's getting the plaudits he deserves though. Lets just remember a certain someone was claiming his international career was probably over last November and here we are less than a year later and he's captained the Lions and very likely to play in the first test.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There's a very clear difference between just stating POM's stat line and asking what he did to using stats as part of an article that points out exactly what he did in depth.

POM has a target on his back for some people. He's getting the plaudits he deserves though. Lets just remember a certain someone was claiming his international career was probably over last November and here we are less than a year later and he's captained the Lions and very likely to play in the first test.

People were claiming that barring injury he would struggle to get back into the starting team.

How did he get back into the team might you remind me?

Former Former

Yeah, it's a bit rich to say "those stats are bollocks, but these stats, these are the real deal".

But POM deserves his spot. He's never going to be a Ferris-like carrier or a Lydiate-like tackling machine, but he's effective and he's consistent, his all-round game is very good.

Most importantly, he's out-performed the other 6s. I'd be surprised if he's captain but he should start.

Burkie1203

leakyboots wrote: »

To quote 3RK, "If your critique of POM starts with an ESPN stat citation, please uppercut yourself repeatedly. Rugby is not played on an excel sheet"

http://threeredkings.com/the-gif-room-seeing-the-unseen/

Involvement in 26% of the total attacking rucks for the Lions for e.g.

There's a reason he's being touted as captain for the first test - the game is made for a fella like him

Dont use ESPN stats but POM was involved in 26% of lions attacking rucks. I assume TRK is out cold in his basement from repeatedly punching himself in the face ?

Bazzo

Ferris reckoned he'd had a good game but sure I suppose what would he know about playing blindside.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

People were claiming that barring injury he would struggle to get back into the starting team.

How did he get back into the team might you remind me?

That's not all that was said at all. And those guys who would supposedly keep him out, Leavy and JvDF, are fit at the moment.

Obviously people got it very wrong, or at least Gatland disagrees.