Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Buer

Peregrine wrote: »

Earls always shines against weaker opposition. That's not new. I'm not at all surprised to see him rip up USA and Japan.

But come Autumn and Six Nations, he's a mixed bag. He shouldn't be anywhere near the Lions squad. Zebo is the only Irish back three player that would deserve to be there if he had been called up.

Earls was unlucky not to be involved. He has completely outperformed Zebo this season and that's not to say that Zebo has had a bad year. Earls did not have a vintage 2016 but has completely turned it around to play some of the best rugby of his career.

Some of the wingers who did travel haven't had fantastic seasons at all. North has been pretty mediocre at best and has had his injury problems. Seymour had a fantastic 2016 but is quite lucky given how quiet he has been this year and this has been shown on the Lions tour.

sting60

Buer wrote: »

Earls was unlucky not to be involved. He has completely outperformed Zebo this season and that's not to say that Zebo has had a bad year. Earls did not have a vintage 2016 but has completely turned it around to play some of the best rugby of his career.

Some of the wingers who did travel haven't had fantastic seasons at all. North has been pretty mediocre at best and has had his injury problems. Seymour had a fantastic 2016 but is quite lucky given how quiet he has been this year and this has been shown on the Lions tour.

Earls /Zebo should not be anywhere near the Irish team if progession​ is required in World Cup,It's pure bull ****e imo.

.ak

sting60 wrote: »

Earls /Zebo should not be anywhere near the Irish team if progession​ is required in World Cup,It's pure bull ****e imo.

You're right. Let's get the u16s involved in the next test. Should work out.

Christy42

.ak wrote: »

You're right. Let's get the u16s involved in the next test. Should work out.

Quite frankly bringing James Ryan is past it and Joe bringing him along is a disgrace. We need to be bringing guys in for the future. He had his fun with under 20s but he will be retiring in less than 2 decades.

The Lions are playing in the next RWC?

Interesting stuff.

Christy42

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

The Lions are playing in the next RWC?

Interesting stuff.

I am getting my threads mixed up but who knows.

sting60

.ak wrote: »

You're right. Let's get the u16s involved in the next test. Should work out.

Have a look at posts prior to tour.

ArielAtom

So it's Gats now is it, I still refers to em as Gatland , don't know why😉. It's the lions, let get behind em, forget about the parochial BS for a few weeks😉

The Rape of Lucretia

ArielAtom wrote: »

So it's Gats now is it, I still refers to em as Gatland , don't know why😉. It's the lions, let get behind em, forget about the parochial BS for a few weeks😉

“I’ll be honest with Gats and Gats will be honest with me,” Warburton said, after the squad’s arrival in Dunedin.

Peregrine

ArielAtom wrote: »

So it's Gats now is it, I still refers to em as Gatland , don't know why😉. It's the lions, let get behind em, forget about the parochial BS for a few weeks😉

There's nothing parochial about it. Three out of four players Gatland announced this morning have no business being in a Lions squad. The schedule is too busy and these geographically fortunate players brought in as mid-week jokers make a mockery of the concept of the Lions.

That's not to say I won't be cheering the team on next week. I can support them and criticise the decisions made.

nice_guy80

Form is everything in sport

Earls is in great form
he deserves a call up

molloyjh

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Form is everything in sport

Earls is in great form
he deserves a call up

Form is not everything. Never has been and never will be. Form is one of a number of considerations when reviewing whether a player should get selected or not. Also form tends to have varying definitions depending on who you talk to.

That's saying nothing about Earls, just a comment on the idea that form is everything. It isn't.

AbusesToilets

Henshaw will prob feel fairly disappointed to be consigned to the dirt trackers. So much of the success of individual players is dictated by which players you get to play with. Get put in a bad team, players badly and your tour is over.

Shame he wasn't given a chance at 13, Davies has a good break but is a poor passer.

swiwi_

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

This tour is really making a mockery of it. While the obligatory stand-and-face-dont-advance is an obscene and arrogant imposition by NZ on the world, fundamentally, it had some relevance as a curio of test rugby. But should have been left for the exclusive use of the AB test team. Every Tom Dick and Harry team having a go. Well, too much of a good thing and all that. (On the Maori NZ game, surely this was the last Lions venture against them - NZ will have to catch up with the rest of the world in the next few years and cut out this racially discriminatory team.)

You're confusing selected on racial lines and selected on racist lines.

But we've done this before, you have a bugbear about it and prefer to wallow in ignorance. In the era of Trump even Ireland still has rednecks I see.

By the way shouldn't that be Tomster Dickster and Hazzer?

Erik Shin

Team for the Chiefs has Payne and Henshaw together in the centre, Best, Stander and Henderson all start

pickarooney

Erik Shin wrote: »

Team for the Chiefs has Payne and Henshaw together in the centre, Best, Stander and Henderson all start

Dat bench do.

Cosmo Kramer

No Jonathan Joseph. Injured or in the test 23?

The ultimate insult for Seymour - doesn't even make the midweek team and is benched alongside the six bench filler call ups. I presume AWJ is just filling the other bench slot as Moriarty is injured and there's nobody else left, he won't play more than 10 or 15 minutes barring an injury.

Cosmo Kramer

Double post.

bilston

The problem I have is that on form Earls does deserve a call up, but then I don't even know if Gatland called a back three player up because other than Gareth Davies and Finn Russell I haven't the faintest idea what position the other guys play because I've barely heard of them. Well I think Alan Dell is a prop...clearly he is superior to Cian Healy...

I hope one of the call ups isn't a second row, because if it is then Joe Launchbury can feel pretty hacked off.

bilston

Erik Shin wrote: »

Team for the Chiefs has Payne and Henshaw together in the centre, Best, Stander and Henderson all start

Pity...I thought there was a chance Henderson might make the test bench. I suppose a big performance against the Chiefs and he still could.

sydthebeat

What exactly have this team against the chiefs for to play for?

The only way they can get onto the test team is if they take out a competitor in training, and I wouldn't be surprised if gatland has them training separately already..... A la farrell and sexton.

Farrell missing again. Thought he might have been on the bench just to get minutes under his belt, hope he's fit.

English Lurker

bilston wrote: »

The problem I have is that on form Earls does deserve a call up, but then I don't even know if Gatland called a back three player up because other than Gareth Davies and Finn Russell I haven't the faintest idea what position the other guys play because I've barely heard of them. Well I think Alan Dell is a prop...clearly he is superior to Cian Healy...

I hope one of the call ups isn't a second row, because if it is then Joe Launchbury can feel pretty hacked off.

Cory Hill is a second row.

Never mind Launchbury though, by Gatland's logic the selection call was between Hill and Jonny Gray, and Jonny Gray lost. Now *that's* a puzzler. Launchbury was at least excluded for a logical if dubious reason. The only logical reason for picking Hill over Gray is you think Hill will give you more. The mind boggles.

Dacey's a hooker and Francis is a tighthead. Again, going by Gatland's logic, Fraser Brown and WP Nel were also available for selection but were overlooked. Brown vs Dacey is a bit of a 50-50, Nel vs Francis is a bit of a 90-10. It's one thing to select from the guys who are local, it's another to select from the Welsh squad then fill it out with the next nearest squad once you've run out of players you like. And aye, Dell's a loosehead.

Maybe it's the best way towards winning - a lot of guys who can slot in very quickly to what Gatland wants and the time zone - but it's not what a Lions tour should be.

Cosmo Kramer

bilston wrote: »

The problem I have is that on form Earls does deserve a call up, but then I don't even know if Gatland called a back three player up because other than Gareth Davies and Finn Russell I haven't the faintest idea what position the other guys play because I've barely heard of them. Well I think Alan Dell is a prop...clearly he is superior to Cian Healy...

I hope one of the call ups isn't a second row, because if it is then Joe Launchbury can feel pretty hacked off.

He called up a whole new front row, one second row player and two half backs. He has confirmed that they're just there for a week to sit on the bench against the Chiefs and Hurricanes and will then leave the squad.

bilston

English Lurker wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

The problem I have is that on form Earls does deserve a call up, but then I don't even know if Gatland called a back three player up because other than Gareth Davies and Finn Russell I haven't the faintest idea what position the other guys play because I've barely heard of them. Well I think Alan Dell is a prop...clearly he is superior to Cian Healy...

I hope one of the call ups isn't a second row, because if it is then Joe Launchbury can feel pretty hacked off.

Cory Hill is a second row.

Never mind Launchbury though, by Gatland's logic the selection call was between Hill and Jonny Gray, and Jonny Gray lost. Now *that's* a puzzler. Launchbury was at least excluded for a logical if dubious reason. The only logical reason for picking Hill over Gray is you think Hill will give you more. The mind boggles.

Dacey's a hooker and Francis is a tighthead. Again, going by Gatland's logic, Fraser Brown and WP Nel were also available for selection but were overlooked. Brown vs Dacey is a bit of a 50-50, Nel vs Francis is a bit of a 90-10. It's one thing to select from the guys who are local, it's another to select from the Welsh squad then fill it out with the next nearest squad once you've run out of players you like. And aye, Dell's a loosehead.

Maybe it's the best way towards winning - a lot of guys who can slot in very quickly to what Gatland wants and the time zone - but it's not what a Lions tour should be.

Yeah, listen I understand the logic, I'm sure everyone does but as you say it's not what it's about. It doesn't sit right.

But then again if the Lions win the series no one will care.

Oh and I didn't even think of Johnny Gray!

Cosmo Kramer

English Lurker wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

The problem I have is that on form Earls does deserve a call up, but then I don't even know if Gatland called a back three player up because other than Gareth Davies and Finn Russell I haven't the faintest idea what position the other guys play because I've barely heard of them. Well I think Alan Dell is a prop...clearly he is superior to Cian Healy...

I hope one of the call ups isn't a second row, because if it is then Joe Launchbury can feel pretty hacked off.

Cory Hill is a second row.

Never mind Launchbury though, by Gatland's logic the selection call was between Hill and Jonny Gray, and Jonny Gray lost. Now *that's* a puzzler. Launchbury was at least excluded for a logical if dubious reason. The only logical reason for picking Hill over Gray is you think Hill will give you more. The mind boggles.

Dacey's a hooker and Francis is a tighthead. Again, going by Gatland's logic, Fraser Brown and WP Nel were also available for selection but were overlooked. Brown vs Dacey is a bit of a 50-50, Nel vs Francis is a bit of a 90-10. It's one thing to select from the guys who are local, it's another to select from the Welsh squad then fill it out with the next nearest squad once you've run out of players you like. And aye, Dell's a loosehead.

Maybe it's the best way towards winning - a lot of guys who can slot in very quickly to what Gatland wants and the time zone - but it's not what a Lions tour should be.

I wonder if he has intentionally left out the like of Gray and Nel (as well as Launchbury, Ford etc.) out of a fear that they might end up coming into the selection mix? If the Lions lose the first test by 20 (which is entirely possible) there will undoubtedly be calls for changes to the starting 15. No doubt if someone like Launchbury is in the squad at that stage there would be calls for him to start the second test, which would totally undermine Gatland's position having not picked him in the initial squad. In that case it's much easier to have Cory Hill around, as nobody is going to suggest that he should be called into the test team.

The original squad members playing against the Chiefs this week are basically going to need injuries or the Lions to lose badly in the first test to have a chance of selection now. If the Lions lose heavily to NZ the likes of Henderson, Stander, Williams or Henshaw could come back into the reckoning at that stage.

pickarooney

He should have called up Jager, just for the trivia value.

Burkie1203

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

If the Lions lose heavily to NZ the likes of Henderson, Stander, Williams or Henshaw could come back into the reckoning at that stage.

I think the 23 that looks likely the first test 23 will play the first two tests with minimal changes.

English Lurker

bilston wrote: »

Yeah, listen I understand the logic, I'm sure everyone does but as you say it's not what it's about. It doesn't sit right.

But then again if the Lions win the series no one will care.

Oh and I didn't even think of Johnny Gray!

You say that but I've seen enough posts about BOD being dropped for the third test to know differently

Anyway, I'll care.

bilston

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

English Lurker wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

The problem I have is that on form Earls does deserve a call up, but then I don't even know if Gatland called a back three player up because other than Gareth Davies and Finn Russell I haven't the faintest idea what position the other guys play because I've barely heard of them. Well I think Alan Dell is a prop...clearly he is superior to Cian Healy...

I hope one of the call ups isn't a second row, because if it is then Joe Launchbury can feel pretty hacked off.

Cory Hill is a second row.

Never mind Launchbury though, by Gatland's logic the selection call was between Hill and Jonny Gray, and Jonny Gray lost. Now *that's* a puzzler. Launchbury was at least excluded for a logical if dubious reason. The only logical reason for picking Hill over Gray is you think Hill will give you more. The mind boggles.

Dacey's a hooker and Francis is a tighthead. Again, going by Gatland's logic, Fraser Brown and WP Nel were also available for selection but were overlooked. Brown vs Dacey is a bit of a 50-50, Nel vs Francis is a bit of a 90-10. It's one thing to select from the guys who are local, it's another to select from the Welsh squad then fill it out with the next nearest squad once you've run out of players you like. And aye, Dell's a loosehead.

Maybe it's the best way towards winning - a lot of guys who can slot in very quickly to what Gatland wants and the time zone - but it's not what a Lions tour should be.

I wonder if he has intentionally left out the like of Gray and Nel (as well as Launchbury, Ford etc.) out of a fear that they might end up coming into the selection mix? If the Lions lose the first test by 20 (which is entirely possible) there will undoubtedly be calls for changes to the starting 15. No doubt if someone like Launchbury is in the squad at that stage there would be calls for him to start the second test, which would totally undermine Gatland's position having not picked him in the initial squad. In that case it's much easier to have Cory Hill around, as nobody is going to suggest that he should be called into the test team.

The original squad members playing against the Chiefs this week are basically going to need injuries or the Lions to lose badly in the first test to have a chance of selection now. If the Lions lose heavily to NZ the likes of Henderson, Stander, Williams or Henshaw could come back into the reckoning at that stage.

Well that would certainly explain the non selection of Gray.