Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The Future of Paige

Options
2456789

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 45,594 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Monokne wrote: »
    Sasha isn't perfect. But she's a lot better than Paige.

    Twitter followers don't mean anything. She's been a famous public figure for a long period of time and has exposure through various platforms (Tough Enough, Total Divas). Plus she's a hot chick. When I said she doesn't connect, I meant she doesn't resonate substantially with the audience. I can not recall a single match or story she's been involved with either as a heel or a babyface where the people were DESPERATE to see her lose or DESPERATE to see her win after he debut in WWE. Can you?

    Her reactions are mild. People don't know how to take her. There's no money in that.

    She doesn't hold a candle to Bayley. Like I'm sorry but this isn't a debatable point and it seems like such a silly hill to die on. In three appearances on the main roster she's gotten bigger reactions than anything Paige did outside her Raw debut, and it would be fair to estimate that she's sold about 10 times more merch while never being on TV than Paige has in her entire WWE career. I think people forget that in 2016, the money you draw for a company is still the best actual barometer of your stardom and they've sold a ****load of hugger shirts before most of their audience has even familiarised themselves with Bayley.

    Not to mention, the genuine, emotional reactions for Bayley in Brooklyn last year and this year eclipse anything Paige has ever achieved and will ever achieve as well.

    Look. Paige is a pretty girl and with her lineage in the business, I agree with the broader point that it feels like she should at some point have achieved more than she has and that maybe she can click better as a performer in the future(I hope & think she will). But let's not compare her to performers who have left her in the dust a long, long time ago. It just makes her look worse.

    I agree Sasha is better than Paige. But Sasha has gotten to work with a higher class of opponent - and lately not very well.

    Her Twitter followers are a guide to her ability to connect and they show she has connected with a lot more people than many men. Using her hotness as a way to brush that aside seems bizarre. As for exposure, it's not like she has had more than Seth Rollins. And I'm not sure when the measuring stick for substantially resonating with the audience became subjective views on Creative's storylines, as opposed to, you know, actual measurement of those who follow her life and all? By sticking the title on her the night she debuted there was little incentive to be desperate to see her win or lose, since it was obvious at that point she was going to be in the title picture no matter what. That's a Creative issue rather than a Paige issue.

    As for her reactions being mild, again I disagree. She was the most over woman on the roster when AJ left. And for people not knowing how to take her, again this is a Creative issue when most of the women, bar Becky Lynch, often flip-flop between face and heel turns. Bellas anyone? What is Nikki this week?

    I don't know who's suggesting she holds a candle to Bayley. I said I thought Bayley would become bigger than her (though I will say citing the Brooklyn crowd is basically like highlighting the post post-Mania crowd that reacted to Paige on her debut). Anyway tis a bit silly to compare a character like Bayley to Paige since one is clearly garnered towards kids (ker-ching) while another is more of an anti-heroine character.

    I will repeat again when I look back at women's wrestling over the past ten years I think only AJ is ahead of her in terms of star power and overall resonance with the masses. Who do you think tops her? Sasha could potentially, though I find her character difficult to figure out since she comes across as very heelish to me. Bayley I say again I think will top her (and AJ, and should be the most successful woman ever if they're smart) but over the past decade no one else comes close.

    I'll put it like this: Gail Kim is a better wrestler than Paige. I think we can all agree on that. But if she returned next month I think the response she would get would be modest at best. But if Paige left next month and returned years down the line I am certain she would get a great reaction and would connect much better than Gail. It's because of her charisma.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,407 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    The WWE and storyline sense doesn't really exist anymore that's gone the way of the Dodo.

    If Paige was selling a ton of merchandise she would be on tv every single week.

    The money would come from the Wyatt storyline more than Paige herself.

    I think Bounty Hunter with his post above has nailed how to get her working with the Wyatts to be honest.

    I realize that WWE storylines don't make sense a lot of the time, but even this is a bit of a stretch. Either way, I don't think they Bray and Paige need to be put together. Both have established themselves well enough on the main roster that they're better off alone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭A Brad Maddox Guy


    I think Paige has suffered for similar reasons as AJ when she moved to the Divas Division - the talent around her just wasn't good enough, the characters non-existent or 2-dimensional and many fans still had the attitude of 'Divas = P!ssbreak'. The reason nobody can remember a good main roster Paige feud is because her opponents where made up of the Funkadactyls, Alicia Fox & Tamina. She didn't even get a proper feud with the Bellas until the awful Women's Revolution story as they were two busy having a terrible feud with each other. So essentially Paige debuted and AJ left. Paige beats a bunch of nobodies, crowds interests dwindle. AJ returns - quickly beaten and put in an awful 'frenemies' angle. Then nothing for a few months until the Women's Revolution which was always leading to a mega push for Charlotte. Then she got injured and returned to nothing until this suspension. Honestly don't think she ever stood a chance at living up to the hype with booking like that.

    Funnily enough I think now is when she has the most chance of getting over again since people have become invested in a few different female characters, none of which has she had a proper singles feud with. All it takes is one good angle and people will care again as she is/was quite popular to begin with. Which is impressive when you consider NXT has evolved a lot since she was on it.

    She has a great look imo, is a decent wrestler and is still very young. Worth keeping in mind that she's the youngest female on the main roster so has plenty of time to keep learning. I've been disappointed in her WWE career so far but still think both her and WWE would be mad to part ways so early into it.

    Lastly she has flip-flopped between face & heel more times than Brie Bella does during a match. As Omackeral will tell you that doesn't help anyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,069 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Lastly she has flip-flopped between face & heel more times than Brie Bella does during a match. As Omackeral will tell you that doesn't help anyone.

    So you suggest pairing her with Big Show and give them both title runs? :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Monokne wrote: »
    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

    I think this might have been a quite incredible exaggeration on your behalf, brother :confused:;)

    Nah not at all, I stand by it! Every reaction we have to them is down to our fatigue at how they've been used, their performances are fine in a vacuum. 99% of reactions in WWE are based on usage over performance, and the exceptions to the rules are the godawful ones that stick out (Khali comes to mind for example) who aren't effective even when given the sun and moon.

    It's not Roman's fault he was given a huge push before he'd clicked as the full package, he took the gig like anyone else would. Same with Dolph or Bray never winning the big one, they just did what they were told. You could go on.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭A Brad Maddox Guy


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    So you suggest pairing her with Big Show and give them both title runs? :p

    $$$$$$ :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Monokne


    leggo wrote: »
    Nah not at all, I stand by it! Every reaction we have to them is down to our fatigue at how they've been used, their performances are fine in a vacuum. 99% of reactions in WWE are based on usage over performance, and the exceptions to the rules are the godawful ones that stick out (Khali comes to mind for example) who aren't effective even when given the sun and moon.

    It's not Roman's fault he was given a huge push before he'd clicked as the full package, he took the gig like anyone else would. Same with Dolph or Bray never winning the big one, they just did what they were told. You could go on.

    I can see Roman being a big time heel no problem. That's what the people want. But Ziggler just isn't seen by the audience at that level anymore, not even close. That's why his match at Summerslam played before a symphony of silence. He's just a guy in the middle who spent the year putting Baron Corbin over and even laid down for Heath Slater. I'm not suggesting it would be a bad idea to turn him heel. It's what I'd do and I suspect it may be where they're going. But no matter the creative, he's not going to be this white hot heel. He's well past the point where he'll ever be seen at that level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Monokne wrote: »
    I can see Roman being a big time heel no problem. That's what the people want. But Ziggler just isn't seen by the audience at that level anymore, not even close. That's why his match at Summerslam played before a symphony of silence. He's just a guy in the middle who spent the year putting Baron Corbin over and even laid down for Heath Slater. I'm not suggesting it would be a bad idea to turn him heel. It's what I'd do and I suspect it may be where they're going. But no matter the creative, he's not going to be this white hot heel. He's well past the point where he'll ever be seen at that level.

    It depends what you do, though, it's all perspective. Just having him be all, "I'm bitter and hate the fans now, what did that ever get me anyway?!" (which is probably what they'll do) will do nothing for him as, you're right, his brand has been damaged and fans just won't accept him. But a complete re-imagination of who he is and what he does that makes sense for his character and clicks with the audience and their perception of him...that could change things. Think how much potential we saw, for example, with Roman when he came out and said "I'm not a good guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm the guy". INSTANTLY we were all like "that's money", until they flubbed it by not letting him play that character and go back to being a superman babyface. Dolph joining The Club, Dolph leading his own nWo-style stable with henchmen and a solid gimmick that clicks with 2016 as nWo/DX connected in the 90's, Dolph in a 'legend killer' type gimmick.

    When talent is there, there's always the opportunity to get over with the right imagination. It's like Arn Anderson (I think) said to Steve Austin as The Ringmaster: "You'll take longer to get over, but when you get over, you'll stay over." Creative is a beast unto itself, but talent with the right creative will always connect and Dolph, Reigns and Paige all have bundles of raw talent. They just need to connect with who they are as a performer and milk that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Monokne


    I can see how vividly your imagination is working on this one and that you really see it, I just fundamentally disagree. It's DOLPH ZIGGLER. I don't think you can get someone who's been defined at such a low level over at such a high one. It just never works. Jack Swagger winning the elimination chamber and challenging Del Rio at Wrestlemania is an example of this. R Truth randomly main eventing a PPV against John Cena. Rikishi's big heel turn. MABLE's big heel turn. Bob Holly against Brock. Sheamus in the last year. And of course the best example of all, Ron Garvin getting the NWA title in the 80's.

    We're in an era where drawing money is almost a lost art, so I'm not saying they can't do it - ultimately it doesn't really matter so they could make him top heel. Just that it's not going to get over at the same level as if you did it with Reigns or Cena or even Ambrose. He's DOLPH ZIGGLER. The dye is cast. The people will always see it as "oh, they're giving Dolph the big shove now? Dolph? Now?" just like they did at Summerslam even after the good promo work in the buildup. Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    I agree we're not going to agree. But to give counter examples: you'd have said the exact same thing after the amount of times they passed over CM Punk as a top guy, The Miz main evented WrestleMania (and was over enough to do so at the time) after years of mediocrity, Big E Langston, Kofi, Festus, Mark Henry's Hall of Pain (12 years after he fathered a hand!). Talent plus the right creative can get over no matter what they've been given in the past. It isn't always so, and you've given great examples of when it's been done badly, but it can be done!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Blue_Dabadee


    I think Paige is just average overall by today's standards.

    If she came in during post-Trish/Lita era, she would be above average like Beth Phoenix, Natalya and Melina.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Monokne


    leggo wrote: »
    I agree we're not going to agree. But to give counter examples: you'd have said the exact same thing after the amount of times they passed over CM Punk as a top guy, The Miz main evented WrestleMania (and was over enough to do so at the time) after years of mediocrity, Big E Langston, Kofi, Festus, Mark Henry's Hall of Pain (12 years after he fathered a hand!). Talent plus the right creative can get over no matter what they've been given in the past. It isn't always so, and you've given great examples of when it's been done badly, but it can be done!

    I disagree firmly re Punk. After his turn in 2009, there were times he was treading water but he was a very strong heel. He'd lose a lot on PPV but it was to guys like Show or Rey. I don't ever remember him doing jobs for One Man Band or putting over the latest big green guy from developmental like Corbin. Bear in mind that was Zigglers spot for 3 full months.

    The others are all examples of people who you can very reasonably say have been low on the cards and have been both pushed and also connected at a relatively decent level. Mark Henry in particular was someone who got over to a degree I would not have thought realistically achievable. But none of them have been real needle movers and I don't think any were the hottest acts in the company at the given times.

    The Miz thing though...c'mmoooon. That's dirty pool. :D Even Mike's mom wouldn't try and give him any credit for being in the Wrestlemania main event. He was the third wheel on the Rock/Cena angle, and a weak one at that. And that's coming from someone who was pleased to see him get the shove at that time. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, hell even (and especially) Michael Cole were hotter heels who would've meant more in that spot (albeit marginally more because the 3rd man really didn't matter for the angle) that year.

    Coming full circle though, I think we can agree that a heel turn and a strong, serious presentation would do Ziggler the world of good. I can see him as an effective number 2 or 3 heel on Smackdown.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    Can anyone confirm the length of contract Paige signed for. I've heard 6-7 years in debates on this matter. That shocks me. Did they sign her for that? And if so, why would they do it?


    Lengthwise what timescale are superstars signing for nowadays?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,216 ✭✭✭Looper007


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    Think I said before, but I think the main problem with Paige was she was brought up as some sort of savior of women's wrestling at a time when it was all about the divas and not about the wrestling. So now she's stuck in that mentality when they actually started to make it about the wrestling.

    The hype was unbelievable for Paige, I never could get behind it cause I never thought she was anything special. I think her look definitely won her a lot of fans, lets be honest she's the type of woman a lot of die hard wrestling fans would love to have, the punky goth pale looking girl. The documentary made about her family also bought about this myth she was a legend on the indy scene.

    I think it definitely didn't help pushing her to the main roster and giving her everything straight away imo, without her having a feud or two before her winning the title. For a good two years after that everything was built around her, and she was probably the most popular woman's wrestler during that time. I think that will definitely inflate anyones ego and I think it did a girl in her early 20's. She then began to lose everything that made her stand out, she basically gave up playing her character and became everything she was fighting agaisn't, although I never fully believed she totally got behind the Anti Diva thing. Then once in NXt the Women became a lot better, she started to get overshadow by Charlotte, Sasha and Becky. She should have been part of that Revolution but she instead she seemed old hat even at 23 years of age at the time.

    The rumours behind the scenes of her been a pain in the ass backstage, behaving badly around fans, partying a lot and I don't think her dating Del Rio has gone down well either. Plus I think the fact she's been overshadowed by Sasha's and Charlotte's certainly must be a knock to her after been the main focus for years, she's been unused for months now. I think injuries also have caught up with her.

    I think she still have a future at WWE if she wants one, maybe change her character up a bit, actually show some passion in the ring like she wants to be there and show the audience why she was rated in the first place. Maybe a year or two away from WWE (she's only 24), on the indies improving her craft might do her a world of good. Maybe do a bit of modelling and acting too. It just seems far too much for her at his stage in her life, she seems stuck in a rut to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Monokne


    I haven't read anything concrete regarding the length of Paige's contract from Meltzer, Keller or Johnson and if they don't have it, I can't imagine there's any legitimate information out there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,846 ✭✭✭Moneymaker


    Think I remember Dave mentioning it was until at least 2019.

    Paige is massively over-rated imo. Sloppy in the ring, takes a lot of stupid and unnecessary bumps(she's 24 and her body is breaking down already). Creative hasn't helped her at all mind.

    Sasha hasn't impressed me lately either. Her promos aren't very good and she too easily "corspes". Her character is "the Boss". Act like it. She's a natural heel.

    Becky is miles better then the pair of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,169 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Charlotte is the best out of the lot of them. She's great.

    Reddit says that Meltzer says that she's probably done with WWE: "Looking really negative right now about her returning... She's probably done with the company."

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/5198ve/dave_meltzer_on_paige_looking_really_negative/


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,216 ✭✭✭Looper007


    Moneymaker wrote: »
    Think I remember Dave mentioning it was until at least 2019.

    Paige is massively over-rated imo. Sloppy in the ring, takes a lot of stupid and unnecessary bumps(she's 24 and her body is breaking down already). Creative hasn't helped her at all mind.

    Sasha hasn't impressed me lately either. Her promos aren't very good and she too easily "corspes". Her character is "the Boss". Act like it. She's a natural heel.

    Becky is miles better then the pair of them.

    Becky is great but WWE have always seen her as the Ringo of the four in NXT, even in NXT she wasn't given much of a character. Sadly misused for me in WWE and is only there to put over the other female wrestlers I rate more.

    Sasha is at her best as a heel, and I'm hoping she wins the title back from Charlotte, turns heel and have Bayley chase her for it until next years WM. Sasha always has a bad problem doing unnecessary bumps, its becoming worse since she hit the main roster. I think the massive build for her since her move from NXT is wearing her down a little. But she still had better matches then Paige.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,069 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    I think the other woman the ball was really dropped with was Emma. She came up to the main roster worse than Paige as nothing more than a comedy act that flopped. Then of course there was her shoplifting.
    Any word on when she's due back?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Monokne


    Per Mr St Laurent on MLW radio, Paige is claiming that WWE head of talent relations Mark Carrano advised her a while back that if she did not break up with ADR, she would be fired.

    I can absolutely buy that he hinted it, and obviously the company made it plane how they felt about the relationship by putting them on split brands, but it is a real stretch to believe he would outright say that. They would be absolutely ripe for a major lawsuit if he did. Reminds me of the Rick Rude/Vince McMahon conversation that formed such a huge part of the steroid trial in 1994.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,216 ✭✭✭Looper007


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Charlotte is the best out of the lot of them. She's great.

    Reddit says that Meltzer says that she's probably done with WWE: "Looking really negative right now about her returning... She's probably done with the company."

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/5198ve/dave_meltzer_on_paige_looking_really_negative/

    I think it's certainly helped her that her last name is Flair, and she was the one most pushed from Becky and Sasha since the start but I was fully expecting that. She sucks as a babyface but is one of the best heels in WWE, she just does that entitled brat heel thing better then anyone really in WWE, also glad they got rid of her dad from her side. I'm hoping she doesn't hog the raw women's title for another long run.

    If Paige did leave I wouldn't be surprised at all. I never felt with Paige that wrestling was her first love, even in the documentary I always felt she did it cause her dad was slightly pushy and it was helping her parents business. I just think she comes off like she's just happy to party with her friends , maybe do a little modelling and hang out on the beach like most 20 somethings. She just seems like someone who's probably bored with it now and wants out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,846 ✭✭✭Moneymaker


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Charlotte is the best out of the lot of them. She's great.

    Reddit says that Meltzer says that she's probably done with WWE: "Looking really negative right now about her returning... She's probably done with the company."

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/5198ve/dave_meltzer_on_paige_looking_really_negative/

    What's Chapter doing in the Impact Zone????


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,169 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    There are loads of WWE relationships (Cena/Nikki, Brie/Bryan, Miz/Maryse, Ambrose/Renee etc.) Why would WWE want Paige and Del Rio to break up?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    J. Marston wrote: »
    There are loads of WWE relationships (Cena/Nikki, Brie/Bryan, Miz/Maryse, Ambrose/Renee etc.) Why would WWE want Paige and Del Rio to break up?

    I'd assume it's just that they don't actually like ADR and have probably known for a while (since they decided not to push him) that he wouldn't be hanging around.


    I couldn't agree more about how they treated Emma and it really is a pity that she got injured when she did as they had just brought her back to Raw with Dana as a heel team.

    Emma is actually a really good wrestler and it was her and Paige who had the first really talked up womens match in NXT. In many ways it is a pity that they came up when they did as only a year or so later and they wouldn't have been Divas and creative might have used both of them very differently.


    For me Becky & Bayley are the best they have atm on the main roster. Both just get it and everything they do just seems to naturally work for me. Perhaps that is just down to the amount of experience the two of them have compared to some of the others. I do feel that Charlotte will be a pivotal player in the division for years as the main heel. Perhaps because she isn't as good as a face but she is good enough as a heel and does have the name and push thus far that she is now really well positioned to be the woman who makes stars by putting them over her.

    Sasha has huge potential and can have absolutely great matches but she needs to be a little bit more careful in the ring and her Boss character could also perhaps use some slight fine tuning but she has years on her side and is a fan favourite so she will be fine. Plus unlike Charlotte she can be both a face and a heel at the top of the pile.

    Then there is Asuka... Sweet Jaysus!

    There is still room especially with the draft split for Paige to have a prominent role for years to come especially given her age but who knows perhaps leaving the WWE for a year or so and returning could actually be a big benefit to her in this en devour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Monokne


    J. Marston wrote: »
    There are loads of WWE relationships (Cena/Nikki, Brie/Bryan, Miz/Maryse, Ambrose/Renee etc.) Why would WWE want Paige and Del Rio to break up?
    You'd imagine they felt there had been behavioural issues with Paige since they got together (the arrest a while back, the drug test failure, the appearance at Combate Americas, attitude problems backstage that have been rumoured) and knowing he was on his way out they wanted to distance Paige from him given they have a lot of equity invested in her. Also, and this is important, it's very clear they have a weird neuroses about exerting more control over their talents lives than is reasonable.

    But once they deliberately split them in the draft it was obvious to all that was the goal here. The surprise was if they actually said so overtly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,591 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    So this really isn't all a work for Total Divas like the ITK told us?



    Well at least the didn't put her in an incest relationship gimmick with her brother like the previous English female wrestler got.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    Monokne wrote: »
    1) She's been on the main roster 2 years and change. :cool:

    2) There is no hotbed of women's talent out there that's paying any money, so where specifically is she going to go that she can get much better in ring? :(

    3) I don't watch TNA every week but I do watch the show - Lashley is a great champion. Galloway is a great performer. EC3 should be in the main event picture on Raw right now. What does that have to do with anything? Perhaps rather than dismissing what I said based on a notion you've ascribed to me, you could just address the actual points I made? :confused:

    My points on TNA were that:
    - It's a dying promotion and has been for years. Their revenue doesn't come close to meeting their payroll and the brand is too badly damaged to be rescued. :(
    - Their womens division contains people like Jade, Marti Bell, Madison Rayne, Sienna, Maria and of course who could forget Rebel! None of whom can work. Other than Gail Kim, there's no one on the roster who comes close to the level of the high end women in WWE (Nattie, Bayley, Sasha, Charlotte, Becky). :o

    Are either of those points on TNA demonstrably untrue? I think they're pretty reasonable my friend. :)

    Bar WWE main eventers, which Paige isn't, you can make a similar earning on the Indy scene these days, especially with 6 years in WWE on your resume, if you're willing to put in the effort. It was reported recently somewhere that TNA lower card guys are making more than WWE midcarders after expenses due to working one week a month and being able to take other bookings for the other three weeks. Del Rio wasn't exactly setting the world on fire when he left the first time and everybody wanted him. Cody Rhodes was playing a career killing gimmick as Stardust and is now getting offers left, right and centre. Paige would be fine outside of WWE (assuming she was willing to put in the effort) for the short term and is only 24. As for long term, when AJ Styles left TNA, WWE offered him a basic development level deal as they didn't think he was worth much. A few years later and he could be the next World Champion within his first year, after becoming the hottest free agent in wrestling. What's to say Paige wouldn't be able to increase her worth and be able to get a better deal down the line? Not saying Paige is on that level, but look how much Styles was able to increase his value in such a short period of time.

    As for the TNA stuff, I was mostly referring to the comments suggesting matches with Maria. As best I can remember, she has had three matches in nine months. Two of them she hid until the finish while the third she had her opponent lay down. It's pretty obvious they don't have any intention of using Maria as an actual wrestler so why exactly was she the example? Would be like suggesting matches with Lana in a WWE example. Yes, she has wrestled, but it obviously isn't her role in the company. I also took the general tone as being more dismissive and the Maria matches made it sound like you don't watch and just had a look at a roster so I apologise for the misunderstanding. :o

    I'd also rather Jade or Madison Rayne over the majority of the WWE Women's roster but that's going to largely be down to personal taste.
    Monokne wrote: »
    Even though there are 4/5 women on the roster who consistently have better matches than her and have connected with the audience at a greater level?

    Do you not find it coincidental that the women who have the best matches with each other are the same women who had previously been given weeks on end to practice said matches with each other? There is a reason Sasha Banks is nowhere close to the level she was in NXT and that's due to not being able to reherse her matches for weeks at a time. Give Paige that same advantage and she will be giving you the same quality of matches. Sasha has struggled without it while Charlotte is hit or miss. Becky is the best of the lot but was pretty damn good when signed to begin with. Bayley has only just started on the main roster so we can't judge her yet. Natalya has been inconsistent as hell pretty much since she debuted. Who else? Nikki Bella? Again, inconsistent as hell.
    Monokne wrote: »
    Per Mr St Laurent on MLW radio, Paige is claiming that WWE head of talent relations Mark Carrano advised her a while back that if she did not break up with ADR, she would be fired.

    I can absolutely buy that he hinted it, and obviously the company made it plane how they felt about the relationship by putting them on split brands, but it is a real stretch to believe he would outright say that. They would be absolutely ripe for a major lawsuit if he did. Reminds me of the Rick Rude/Vince McMahon conversation that formed such a huge part of the steroid trial in 1994.

    I highly doubt MSL has any of the contacts he claims to have. More likely an Indy wrestler who knows someone who knows someone who works as a ring guy in WWE. Nobody could be stupid enough to outright say something like that to an employee. Suggesting it would be different. I reckon MSL heard something about them not liking Paige and Del Rio being together and filled in the blanks to come up with this story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    gnfnrhead wrote: »
    Do you not find it coincidental that the women who have the best matches with each other are the same women who had previously been given weeks on end to practice said matches with each other? There is a reason Sasha Banks is nowhere close to the level she was in NXT and that's due to not being able to reherse her matches for weeks at a time. Give Paige that same advantage and she will be giving you the same quality of matches. Sasha has struggled without it while Charlotte is hit or miss. Becky is the best of the lot but was pretty damn good when signed to begin with. Bayley has only just started on the main roster so we can't judge her yet. Natalya has been inconsistent as hell pretty much since she debuted. Who else? Nikki Bella? Again, inconsistent as hell.

    Just to pick up on this point: that's not really a thing when you get to WWE-level, practising matches for weeks. I mean, you may do it when you're making your debut right out of wrestling school, in PC they'd have people do training matches in general (but, having not been there personally, I'd guess they'd likely have had experienced people like Sasha and Bayley work with newer people rather than each other) and in WWE they'd have them work on a house show together (more to road test chemistry between the two for the benefit of agents and management than anything else), but it'd be seen as amateurish to spend weeks 'practising' matches spot-for-spot, so to speak. You've got to be good to go with anyone on any given night at the top, just due to the nature of wrestling with injuries etc, and WWE would train people as such. If you're doing something really high risk, you might go over the spot a few times beforehand to make sure you can do it seamlessly, but that's about it.

    That's not to say the women are immune to criticism though. My own deduction of the problem they face is due to them working to an NXT crowd. Smaller, older crowds are obviously smarter and have been fans for longer, so you can work fast, fast, fast, doing cool spots and skipping out on selling and story if it gets a bigger pop, and the crowd will follow along with you and process it quicker. In WWE, you've got to work slow (listen to any veteran's podcast for them to mention this 142 times per show), sell and tell a story in the ring to allow the bigger, younger crowd to process it all and react accordingly. The NXT women worked the NXT style when they came in and it just didn't click with the crowd, which is why we were all worried for the 'Divas Revolution' this time last year, but they're learning on the fly and getting much better.

    Another problem is they don't really have veterans like Jericho, who've been there and succeeded at the top for a long period of time, to work with and teach them this in practise night-after-night. They kinda have to blaze their own trail and figure it all out for themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,216 ✭✭✭Looper007


    Monokne wrote: »
    You'd imagine they felt there had been behavioural issues with Paige since they got together (the arrest a while back, the drug test failure, the appearance at Combate Americas, attitude problems backstage that have been rumoured) and knowing he was on his way out they wanted to distance Paige from him given they have a lot of equity invested in her. Also, and this is important, it's very clear they have a weird neuroses about exerting more control over their talents lives than is reasonable.

    But once they deliberately split them in the draft it was obvious to all that was the goal here. The surprise was if they actually said so overtly.

    Plus Del Rio isn't well liked backstage by everyone that isn't Vince, HHH is known to be one of the main haters. Del Rio is known to be a massive partier and someone who doesn't give a **** how he behaves. He would have fitted well back in the 90's and 80's.

    BUT Paige had behavioural issues way before she got with Del Rio, she's been known to be bit of a Diva backstage with fellow women wrestlers, is a bit of a party animal (Sasha who's the same age as Paige, behaves professional and is married. So it can't all be down with age with Paige) and is pretty unprofessional at times. She seems to be following in her dad's footsteps in that case. We ain't dealing with a woman who's a little miss perfect here. Paige has the bit of the female Randy Orton about her. Just feels to me like she knows WWE will put up with her cause she feels like she's that important.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Monokne


    Not to psycho analyse too much here, but it's apparent she didn't have much of a childhood in the conventional sense of the world and my sense of her, especially after that uncomfortable, weird Steve Austin Show appearance, is that she's just never really grown up. She's been landed in a very adult, grown up situation in life but she comes across like a teenager. Might not be the worst thing for her to get away for a while.


Advertisement