The Future of Paige

Looper007

J. Marston wrote: »

Charlotte is the best out of the lot of them. She's great.

Reddit says that Meltzer says that she's probably done with WWE: "Looking really negative right now about her returning... She's probably done with the company."

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/5198ve/dave_meltzer_on_paige_looking_really_negative/

I think it's certainly helped her that her last name is Flair, and she was the one most pushed from Becky and Sasha since the start but I was fully expecting that. She sucks as a babyface but is one of the best heels in WWE, she just does that entitled brat heel thing better then anyone really in WWE, also glad they got rid of her dad from her side. I'm hoping she doesn't hog the raw women's title for another long run.

If Paige did leave I wouldn't be surprised at all. I never felt with Paige that wrestling was her first love, even in the documentary I always felt she did it cause her dad was slightly pushy and it was helping her parents business. I just think she comes off like she's just happy to party with her friends , maybe do a little modelling and hang out on the beach like most 20 somethings. She just seems like someone who's probably bored with it now and wants out.

Moneymaker

J. Marston wrote: »

Charlotte is the best out of the lot of them. She's great.

Reddit says that Meltzer says that she's probably done with WWE: "Looking really negative right now about her returning... She's probably done with the company."

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/5198ve/dave_meltzer_on_paige_looking_really_negative/

What's Chapter doing in the Impact Zone????

J. Marston

There are loads of WWE relationships (Cena/Nikki, Brie/Bryan, Miz/Maryse, Ambrose/Renee etc.) Why would WWE want Paige and Del Rio to break up?

Bounty Hunter

J. Marston wrote: »

There are loads of WWE relationships (Cena/Nikki, Brie/Bryan, Miz/Maryse, Ambrose/Renee etc.) Why would WWE want Paige and Del Rio to break up?

I'd assume it's just that they don't actually like ADR and have probably known for a while (since they decided not to push him) that he wouldn't be hanging around.


I couldn't agree more about how they treated Emma and it really is a pity that she got injured when she did as they had just brought her back to Raw with Dana as a heel team.

Emma is actually a really good wrestler and it was her and Paige who had the first really talked up womens match in NXT. In many ways it is a pity that they came up when they did as only a year or so later and they wouldn't have been Divas and creative might have used both of them very differently.


For me Becky & Bayley are the best they have atm on the main roster. Both just get it and everything they do just seems to naturally work for me. Perhaps that is just down to the amount of experience the two of them have compared to some of the others. I do feel that Charlotte will be a pivotal player in the division for years as the main heel. Perhaps because she isn't as good as a face but she is good enough as a heel and does have the name and push thus far that she is now really well positioned to be the woman who makes stars by putting them over her.

Sasha has huge potential and can have absolutely great matches but she needs to be a little bit more careful in the ring and her Boss character could also perhaps use some slight fine tuning but she has years on her side and is a fan favourite so she will be fine. Plus unlike Charlotte she can be both a face and a heel at the top of the pile.

Then there is Asuka... Sweet Jaysus!

There is still room especially with the draft split for Paige to have a prominent role for years to come especially given her age but who knows perhaps leaving the WWE for a year or so and returning could actually be a big benefit to her in this en devour.

Monokne

J. Marston wrote: »

There are loads of WWE relationships (Cena/Nikki, Brie/Bryan, Miz/Maryse, Ambrose/Renee etc.) Why would WWE want Paige and Del Rio to break up?

You'd imagine they felt there had been behavioural issues with Paige since they got together (the arrest a while back, the drug test failure, the appearance at Combate Americas, attitude problems backstage that have been rumoured) and knowing he was on his way out they wanted to distance Paige from him given they have a lot of equity invested in her. Also, and this is important, it's very clear they have a weird neuroses about exerting more control over their talents lives than is reasonable.

But once they deliberately split them in the draft it was obvious to all that was the goal here. The surprise was if they actually said so overtly.

Agent Coulson

So this really isn't all a work for Total Divas like the ITK told us?



Well at least the didn't put her in an incest relationship gimmick with her brother like the previous English female wrestler got.

gnfnrhead

Monokne wrote: »

1) She's been on the main roster 2 years and change. :cool:

2) There is no hotbed of women's talent out there that's paying any money, so where specifically is she going to go that she can get much better in ring?

3) I don't watch TNA every week but I do watch the show - Lashley is a great champion. Galloway is a great performer. EC3 should be in the main event picture on Raw right now. What does that have to do with anything? Perhaps rather than dismissing what I said based on a notion you've ascribed to me, you could just address the actual points I made?

My points on TNA were that:
- It's a dying promotion and has been for years. Their revenue doesn't come close to meeting their payroll and the brand is too badly damaged to be rescued.
- Their womens division contains people like Jade, Marti Bell, Madison Rayne, Sienna, Maria and of course who could forget Rebel! None of whom can work. Other than Gail Kim, there's no one on the roster who comes close to the level of the high end women in WWE (Nattie, Bayley, Sasha, Charlotte, Becky).

Are either of those points on TNA demonstrably untrue? I think they're pretty reasonable my friend.

Bar WWE main eventers, which Paige isn't, you can make a similar earning on the Indy scene these days, especially with 6 years in WWE on your resume, if you're willing to put in the effort. It was reported recently somewhere that TNA lower card guys are making more than WWE midcarders after expenses due to working one week a month and being able to take other bookings for the other three weeks. Del Rio wasn't exactly setting the world on fire when he left the first time and everybody wanted him. Cody Rhodes was playing a career killing gimmick as Stardust and is now getting offers left, right and centre. Paige would be fine outside of WWE (assuming she was willing to put in the effort) for the short term and is only 24. As for long term, when AJ Styles left TNA, WWE offered him a basic development level deal as they didn't think he was worth much. A few years later and he could be the next World Champion within his first year, after becoming the hottest free agent in wrestling. What's to say Paige wouldn't be able to increase her worth and be able to get a better deal down the line? Not saying Paige is on that level, but look how much Styles was able to increase his value in such a short period of time.

As for the TNA stuff, I was mostly referring to the comments suggesting matches with Maria. As best I can remember, she has had three matches in nine months. Two of them she hid until the finish while the third she had her opponent lay down. It's pretty obvious they don't have any intention of using Maria as an actual wrestler so why exactly was she the example? Would be like suggesting matches with Lana in a WWE example. Yes, she has wrestled, but it obviously isn't her role in the company. I also took the general tone as being more dismissive and the Maria matches made it sound like you don't watch and just had a look at a roster so I apologise for the misunderstanding.

I'd also rather Jade or Madison Rayne over the majority of the WWE Women's roster but that's going to largely be down to personal taste.

Monokne wrote: »

Even though there are 4/5 women on the roster who consistently have better matches than her and have connected with the audience at a greater level?

Do you not find it coincidental that the women who have the best matches with each other are the same women who had previously been given weeks on end to practice said matches with each other? There is a reason Sasha Banks is nowhere close to the level she was in NXT and that's due to not being able to reherse her matches for weeks at a time. Give Paige that same advantage and she will be giving you the same quality of matches. Sasha has struggled without it while Charlotte is hit or miss. Becky is the best of the lot but was pretty damn good when signed to begin with. Bayley has only just started on the main roster so we can't judge her yet. Natalya has been inconsistent as hell pretty much since she debuted. Who else? Nikki Bella? Again, inconsistent as hell.

Monokne wrote: »

Per Mr St Laurent on MLW radio, Paige is claiming that WWE head of talent relations Mark Carrano advised her a while back that if she did not break up with ADR, she would be fired.

I can absolutely buy that he hinted it, and obviously the company made it plane how they felt about the relationship by putting them on split brands, but it is a real stretch to believe he would outright say that. They would be absolutely ripe for a major lawsuit if he did. Reminds me of the Rick Rude/Vince McMahon conversation that formed such a huge part of the steroid trial in 1994.

I highly doubt MSL has any of the contacts he claims to have. More likely an Indy wrestler who knows someone who knows someone who works as a ring guy in WWE. Nobody could be stupid enough to outright say something like that to an employee. Suggesting it would be different. I reckon MSL heard something about them not liking Paige and Del Rio being together and filled in the blanks to come up with this story.

leggo

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Do you not find it coincidental that the women who have the best matches with each other are the same women who had previously been given weeks on end to practice said matches with each other? There is a reason Sasha Banks is nowhere close to the level she was in NXT and that's due to not being able to reherse her matches for weeks at a time. Give Paige that same advantage and she will be giving you the same quality of matches. Sasha has struggled without it while Charlotte is hit or miss. Becky is the best of the lot but was pretty damn good when signed to begin with. Bayley has only just started on the main roster so we can't judge her yet. Natalya has been inconsistent as hell pretty much since she debuted. Who else? Nikki Bella? Again, inconsistent as hell.

Just to pick up on this point: that's not really a thing when you get to WWE-level, practising matches for weeks. I mean, you may do it when you're making your debut right out of wrestling school, in PC they'd have people do training matches in general (but, having not been there personally, I'd guess they'd likely have had experienced people like Sasha and Bayley work with newer people rather than each other) and in WWE they'd have them work on a house show together (more to road test chemistry between the two for the benefit of agents and management than anything else), but it'd be seen as amateurish to spend weeks 'practising' matches spot-for-spot, so to speak. You've got to be good to go with anyone on any given night at the top, just due to the nature of wrestling with injuries etc, and WWE would train people as such. If you're doing something really high risk, you might go over the spot a few times beforehand to make sure you can do it seamlessly, but that's about it.

That's not to say the women are immune to criticism though. My own deduction of the problem they face is due to them working to an NXT crowd. Smaller, older crowds are obviously smarter and have been fans for longer, so you can work fast, fast, fast, doing cool spots and skipping out on selling and story if it gets a bigger pop, and the crowd will follow along with you and process it quicker. In WWE, you've got to work slow (listen to any veteran's podcast for them to mention this 142 times per show), sell and tell a story in the ring to allow the bigger, younger crowd to process it all and react accordingly. The NXT women worked the NXT style when they came in and it just didn't click with the crowd, which is why we were all worried for the 'Divas Revolution' this time last year, but they're learning on the fly and getting much better.

Another problem is they don't really have veterans like Jericho, who've been there and succeeded at the top for a long period of time, to work with and teach them this in practise night-after-night. They kinda have to blaze their own trail and figure it all out for themselves.

Looper007

Monokne wrote: »

You'd imagine they felt there had been behavioural issues with Paige since they got together (the arrest a while back, the drug test failure, the appearance at Combate Americas, attitude problems backstage that have been rumoured) and knowing he was on his way out they wanted to distance Paige from him given they have a lot of equity invested in her. Also, and this is important, it's very clear they have a weird neuroses about exerting more control over their talents lives than is reasonable.

But once they deliberately split them in the draft it was obvious to all that was the goal here. The surprise was if they actually said so overtly.

Plus Del Rio isn't well liked backstage by everyone that isn't Vince, HHH is known to be one of the main haters. Del Rio is known to be a massive partier and someone who doesn't give a **** how he behaves. He would have fitted well back in the 90's and 80's.

BUT Paige had behavioural issues way before she got with Del Rio, she's been known to be bit of a Diva backstage with fellow women wrestlers, is a bit of a party animal (Sasha who's the same age as Paige, behaves professional and is married. So it can't all be down with age with Paige) and is pretty unprofessional at times. She seems to be following in her dad's footsteps in that case. We ain't dealing with a woman who's a little miss perfect here. Paige has the bit of the female Randy Orton about her. Just feels to me like she knows WWE will put up with her cause she feels like she's that important.

Monokne

Not to psycho analyse too much here, but it's apparent she didn't have much of a childhood in the conventional sense of the world and my sense of her, especially after that uncomfortable, weird Steve Austin Show appearance, is that she's just never really grown up. She's been landed in a very adult, grown up situation in life but she comes across like a teenager. Might not be the worst thing for her to get away for a while.

Monokne

Latest update on Paige below.

The bit I highlighted struck me as very Paige. Can just imagine her being all over him, and him knowing he was leaving not giving a s**t. It sounds untenable either way.

The situation with Paige is up in the air right now as far as whether she’s coming back or not. At this point she is still on the roster but not wrestling due to a suspension, which ends in less than two weeks. On the podcast MSL & Sullivan, with MSL and veteran wrestler and booker Kevin Sullivan, Sullivan said, “Mark Carrano, who fans might know from Total Divas, kind of like the office liaison guy, approached Del Rio and Paige individually and harassed each of them about their relationship. It was indicated that the office wanted them to sever their romantic relationship.” MSL then said, “A lot of people speculated if this was the reason (the company) spit them up in the draft and that’s definitely what happened. The company did not want them together. They split them up in the draft by design and they threatened to fire Paige if she didn’t break up with Del Rio.” WWE has denied the story, as a WWE publicist said to Cheap Seats, “I can tell you that isn’t true, both your question about harassment and the threat of being fired.” There is also a claim that Del Rio called Carrano on the subject and Carrano went silent in the conversation. It’s hard to believe anyone in WWE would say anything directly like that to Paige.

As far as the idea both were talked to about it, that’s possible as the story was they were like high schoolers when they together backstage. As far as what words were actually used and how they were interpreted is the question. The story is that Paige has gotten legal representation and at press time nobody seems to know whether she’ll stay or go. WWE has outright stated that the allegation of Paige being threatened with being fired by Carrano if she didn’t break up with Del Rio is not true. The reality is they were put on different brands when everyone in decision making power knew full well they were a couple and it’s impossible to believe them being a couple wasn’t figured into the decision. Carmella and Cass were as well but that was different in the sense they wanted to get Carmella over as a wrestler on her own and not part of the Enzo & Cass team so there was a business reason and that decision was made months ago when they didn’t bring her up as part of the act. But to outright say if you don’t break up with your boyfriend you’ll be fired, that’s more questionable. It’s just difficult for me to believe someone in that position would ever say that because of the legal implications. Between her suspension and Del Rio leaving you know the situation would be tenuous anyway, but this being said only makes it more difficult for both sides, but she has not officially at least left the promotion as of press time and is still under contract for a number of years. In fact, at press time, WWE has not even acknowledged that Del Rio is no longer with the promotion which is surprising since the belief was it would be acknowledged by now

sky88

Wwe have always put couples on different brands.

They put big cass and carmella on different brands.

Monokne

You are literally repeating what is written in the quoted article. Insightful!

sky88

Monokne wrote: »

You are literally repeating what is written in the quoted article. Insightful!

I think I should start reading the entire quote

Monokne

On that, we definitely agree!

gnfnrhead

sky88 wrote: »

Wwe have always put couples on different brands.

They put big cass and carmella on different brands.

Stephanie/Triple H, Lana/Rusev, Maryse/Miz, Nikki/Cena, Renee/Ambrose, Naomi/Uso #1. Don't think Emma was drafted due to injury, leaving two couples split up as far as I can tell. Carmella/Enzo which was done to avoid Carmella looking like a rip off and Paige/Del Rio which had no legitimate reasoning. If Brie Bella hasn't retired no doubt she would be on Smackdown also.

Chain Smoker

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Stephanie/Triple H, Lana/Rusev, Maryse/Miz, Nikki/Cena, Renee/Ambrose, Naomi/Uso #1. Don't think Emma was drafted due to injury, leaving two couples split up as far as I can tell. Carmella/Enzo which was done to avoid Carmella looking like a rip off and Paige/Del Rio which had no legitimate reasoning. If Brie Bella hasn't retired no doubt she would be on Smackdown also.

With Cena, Orton, Miz, Ziggler and Kane on Smackdown, it doesn't make sense to me at all having Del Rio there too instead of Zayn or Cesaro. Was just making an already stale roster even more stale, as evidenced by how irrelevant his absence has been.

Monokne

FrontRowBrian has confirmed Paige quit WWE this week and has hired legal representation. So there you have it. I would imagine this one is going to get very interesting from here.

beakerjoe

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Stephanie/Triple H, Lana/Rusev, Maryse/Miz, Nikki/Cena, Renee/Ambrose, Naomi/Uso #1. Don't think Emma was drafted due to injury, leaving two couples split up as far as I can tell. Carmella/Enzo which was done to avoid Carmella looking like a rip off and Paige/Del Rio which had no legitimate reasoning. If Brie Bella hasn't retired no doubt she would be on Smackdown also.

I thought Emma and Zack had parted ways recently.

Also Del Rio is apparently holding a press con in Mexico today.

gerrybbadd

Christ - she quit? I'm really very surprised over the whole way this went down. She did seem a bit like a star on the decline though, it's as if the whole Diva's Revolution thing left her behind when Sasha, Charlotte and Becky came up.

I always really liked Paige, from her NXT days on up.

I'll be sad to see her go.

Lord TSC

Monokne wrote: »

FrontRowBrian has confirmed Paige quit WWE this week and has hired legal representation. So there you have it. I would imagine this one is going to get very interesting from here.

Who is "FrontRowBrian"? All I know about him is that the MMA board last week were saying he was incredibly uncredible when it came to MMA news, and reading up, it looks like someone trying to look "ITK" by jumping on a developing story by claiming the most obvious outcome as "insider knowledge"....

beakerjoe

Lord TSC wrote: »

Who is "FrontRowBrian"? All I know about him is that the MMA board last week were saying he was incredibly uncredible when it came to MMA news, and reading up, it looks like someone trying to look "ITK" by jumping on a developing story by claiming the most obvious outcome as "insider knowledge"....

Ah hes a usually reliable twitter personality.

Agent Coulson

Ah here now I was expecting the whole arrest and all the other stuff to be a work for Total Divas last time I believe posts on here :mad:


She should do ok down Mexico way for a few years before making her way back to New York.

beakerjoe

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Ah here now I was expecting the whole arrest and all the other stuff to be a work for Total Divas last time I believe posts on here :mad:


She should do ok down Mexico way for a few years before making her way back to New York.

I doubt they will last TBH, Hes an ageing party boy who is having a mid-life crisis and she is a young woman who is rebelling against the system. I give them a year tops and thats being generous!

Monokne

Lord TSC wrote: »

Who is "FrontRowBrian"? All I know about him is that the MMA board last week were saying he was incredibly uncredible when it came to MMA news, and reading up, it looks like someone trying to look "ITK" by jumping on a developing story by claiming the most obvious outcome as "insider knowledge"....

Mauro Ranallo used to introduce him as a 'guerilla journalist' on his show back in the day. He is absolutely credible. Off the top of my head, he broke the story of CM Punk signing with UFC weeks before it happened, Jon Jones' hit and run, and Nick Diaz's failed test after the Condit fight. He's recently been hired as a by FloCombat who WWE have just invested in and he works with them on amateur wrestling, pro wrestling and MMA.

He is also close friends with Gerald Brisco of WWE fame and Chael Sonnen of UFC fame.

I understand if this is news you don't wish to hear that it's tempting to dismiss him, but Brian has a really good track record so I'd fully believe it.

Lord TSC

Monokne wrote: »

I understand if this is news you don't wish to hear that it's tempting to dismiss him, but Brian has a really good track record so I'd fully believe it.

Nah, thats fair enough. If I remember right, he was the same guy last week saying that Punk and Cabana had a falling out, and when I looked into him (i.e. went to read the comments over on r/mma), a lot of people were extremely dismissive of him.

Monokne

I'm one of those people with a very sparse twitter - I follow a grand total of 21 people. But FRB is one of them. His info is nailed on most of the time. Granted, it's mostly MMA, but I don't think he's putting out a tweet that inflammatory without being given the information definitively so if nothing else, you can believe it's what he's been told.

So the big question is where next for Saraya?

beakerjoe

Monokne wrote: »

I'm one of those people with a very sparse twitter - I follow a grand total of 21 people. But FRB is one of them. His info is nailed on most of the time. Granted, it's mostly MMA, but I don't think he's putting out a tweet that inflammatory without being given the information definitively so if nothing else, you can believe it's what he's been told.

So the big question is where next for Saraya?

The way of Sunny and Chyna only much sooner in life perhaps.

Monokne

I hadn't even considered that, but she is right in that age bracket. Sunny was 24 when she was on fire in the WWF in 1996 and by 26 she was showing the signs of her lifestyle. To be fair, I don't think there has been any hint of problems at the same level with drugs with Saraya as there were with Tammy.

beakerjoe

Monokne wrote: »

I hadn't even considered that, but she is right in that age bracket. Sunny was 24 when she was on fire in the WWF in 1996 and by 26 she was showing the signs of her lifestyle. To be fair, I don't think there has been any hint of problems at the same level with drugs with Saraya as there were with Tammy.

Well we still don't know why she failed the wellness test and if hanging around with party boy DelBoy and if rumours are to be believed about cocaine, then we sadly may see history repeat itself. Hopefully not.

She has regressed a lot since joining the main roster.

Monokne

I definitely think she's dabbling in recreational drugs. Too much smoke for there not to be some fire.

I don't know how much of the performance issues is drug use mind. NXT had carefully produced and rehearsed matches in front of a warm, receptive crowd. My own take on her was just that she isn't a particularly strong in ring performer and that was highlighted on the main roster. Certainly Sasha has looked less polished since coming up as well. Charlotte has largely looked ok, and Becky & Bayley (small sample size, I know) don't look to have missed a beat.

Lord TSC

Meltzer on Paige

Paige was there at the (Del Rio) press conference but wouldn't talk too any reporters. According to those with direct knowledge of her situation, she was basically in the same situation A.J. Lee was on when C.M. Punk left. At one point this week it did appear she was gone, right now that isn't the case, but it can change and the situation will be weird. The big difference is there is no legal action being taken against Alberto like there was against Punk.

hufpc8w3adnk65

beakerjoe wrote: »

The way of Sunny and Chyna only much sooner in life perhaps.

She doesn't have the same demons as those two or have I missed something?

Monokne

The arrest recently and the current suspension for drug use are *believed* to be cocaine related.

Lord TSC

She deleted this when she got a tonne of backlash online. She's gone and gotten a tattoo of Del Rio's name...

KingJamsie

leggo

Sometimes you have to remind yourself just how young Paige is. Sheesh...

beakerjoe

Shes not 17, shes 24.... she is very immature for her age in some ways though

Ben Gadot

It's a tattoo that will probably cause her embarrassment and financial loss at some point, but it's no bigger an issue than that.

There are people her age ruining their lives and the lives of others, so who gives a flying fcuk about a tattoo?

Monokne

I have two friends - one male, one female - who have tattoo's of exes on them. The woman's husband absolutely hates it. She's had laser work done on it but it's not been overly effective. The guy has had it added to and modified but you can still sort of tell. It looks like ****.

I have to say the idea that it's not a big issue is amusing. Bear in mind the mindset of the individual. She felt strongly enough to get the tattoo. She feels strongly enough to walk away from a company she's worked her life to get to. Can you imagine then how she'll feel when she's 26 or 28 and single and whether she lasers it, covers it or leaves it she has to see this reminder of him everyday? Or how it'd be if he dumped her and was with someone else and she's reminded of this forever? She's obviously a deeply passionate woman and I've no doubt that if and when the day comes that they split it'll be an incredibly hard thing for her, to which the tattoo will only add. Trust me, I have seen this thing rear it's head. It's a huge problem.

Fingers crossed that it lasts is all I can say.

sky88

The way paige is going on id just fear if del rio broke up with her.

Insect Overlord

Undertaker didn't get the same criticism for his "Sarah" tattoo.

Bounty Hunter

An File wrote: »

Undertaker didn't get the same criticism for his "Sarah" tattoo.

joking I know but I am sure if he had posted it on social media to show it off to the public he probably would have.

Did she really expect the majority of people on a social media site to be "aww what a nice expression of your love for Bertie" nah it's always going to be gifs of Y2J saying stupid idiot and the like.

Lord TSC

Sara also wasn't someone who had just been fired from the company Taker worked for, and under bad circumstances at that. Its sticking two fingers up at WWE, which is unprofessional (on top of being extremely naive and immature).

A Brad Maddox Guy

An File wrote: »

Undertaker didn't get the same criticism for his "Sarah" tattoo.

Just got a flashback of 9 year old me writing SARA on my Undertaker toy's throat with a marker...

Agent Coulson

Nothing a boob job won't cover in the future if she wants to return to New York.

sky88

Just thinking why didn't she get his real name??

Unless he only goes by alberto now or maybe I'm putting far too much thought into this

Monokne

sky88 wrote: »

Just thinking why didn't she get his real name??

Unless he only goes by alberto now or maybe I'm putting far too much thought into this

It's his middle name but I have heard before it's what he goes by, same as Shawn Michaels, for example.

Monokne

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Nothing a boob job won't cover in the future if she wants to return to New York.

Laughed so hard trying to work out how this could make any sense. Like maybe she'll enlarge the boob and try and have it pulled down over the tat then sewn in that position? Or glued?

sky88

Monokne wrote: »

It's his middle name but I have heard before it's what he goes by, same as Shawn Michaels, for example.

Oh right makes sense. Think Shawn said that in his book he hated the name Michael