We need a new bridge!!!

JMT2016

It takes so long now to get from ferrybank into the city it's not funny!!

Almost 50 minutes to get to Poleberry it took me during the week - I'd have been parked up in Kilkenny City by the time I got into town. Madness.

This isn't a rant about the quays - I like what they are trying to do - but really there has to be something done here - people shouldn't have to be going over the toll bridge miles out of the way just to get a few bits in town in a reasonable time.

Would they ever think of putting in a bridge like somewhere connecting Ross Abbey with Ardkeen? It would help ferrybank folk getting to the hospital as well.

I like the idea of the footbridge over to the clock tower but that's not much help if you have do the shopping in town!

Mulbert

You must have come down dock rd, along the quay, up the mall, Parnell st and manor st at about 9 o'clock in the morning. I live in ferrybank for over 12yrs and it has never taken 50mins to get to any where in town bar an accident or event happening in town.

Cabaal

JMT2016 wrote: »

I like the idea of the footbridge over to the clock tower but that's not much help if you have do the shopping in town!

Works for people in Amsterdam though, get a cargo bike

JMT2016

Mulbert wrote: »

You must have come down dock rd, along the quay, up the mall, Parnell st and manor st at about 9 o'clock in the morning. I live in ferrybank for over 12yrs and it has never taken 50mins to get to any where in town bar an accident or event happening in town.

Ya that's the route, was around lunchtime had every red light possible as well :O

But there's definitely been a large build in traffic in the last 12 months especially on dock road, what will it be like in another year?

When bilberry goes one away it will be impossible to get back over the bridge as well!!!

JMT2016

Cabaal wrote: »

Works for people in Amsterdam though, get a cargo bike

That would take a few six-packs in fairness!

marlin vs

JMT2016 wrote: »

It takes so long now to get from ferrybank into the city it's not funny!!

Almost 50 minutes to get to Poleberry it took me during the week - I'd have been parked up in Kilkenny City by the time I got into town!

Why not just go to Kilkenny where there is no expanse of a fine river.

JMT2016

marlin vs wrote: »

Why not just go to Kilkenny where there is no expanse of a fine river.

Well it doesn't have a tesco for starters...

A new bridge would solve a lot of the traffic nonsense though - they're trying to keep traffic off the quays but with the current bridge they're still the main entry into the city... madness!!

Mulbert

Don't go down The Quay, it's like saying that it took 4 hours to get to Dublin but I went through Kilkenny Town, Carlow, Kilcullen and Naas. Why would anyone who knows the town use the quay to get to poleberry from ferrybank?

O Riain

Mulbert wrote: »

Don't go down The Quay, it's like saying that it took 4 hours to get to Dublin but I went through Kilkenny Town, Carlow, Kilcullen and Naas. Why would anyone who knows the town use the quay to get to poleberry from ferrybank?

I use to have to get onto the quay whenever I drove from my house. The first thing I would do is then get off the quay. This was before they even changed the layout too.

JMT2016

Mulbert wrote: »

Don't go down The Quay, it's like saying that it took 4 hours to get to Dublin but I went through Kilkenny Town, Carlow, Kilcullen and Naas. Why would anyone who knows the town use the quay to get to poleberry from ferrybank?

I think we can do better than that though. When you drive in from the ferrybank side you have two options (i) "Bridge Street" and something like (ii) All routes the Quay - of course people are going to pick the quay if they don't know any better like!

A traffic system that assumes that most know or should use the maze of sideroads around Ballybricken to get to most of the city is daft!

Harry Palmr

The topography of the City makes things hard to change in an meaningful way. Where would this mystical bridge cross? From the Christendom end of the north quays to the end of the south quays? If so it would need to be an opening span for the traffic up river be it berthing at the North Quays or that goes further up river and that wouldn't be cheap.

JMT2016

That's why I was saying put it by Ross Abbey and into Ardkeen further down stream - it would be completing the ring road for all the world.

It would take so much pressure off the quays as well if the people on the north of the city could get into the newtown/john's hill/folly area without having to do ridiculously long detours or traffic jams.

Limerick has quite a wide Shannon opening and yet has multiple bridges - why shouldn't we have a bridge that would actually take some heat off the dock road, quays and the dunmore road and might breathe a bit of life into Ross Abbey as well. Sounds like a win win to me.

Imagine how bad the traffic will get if waterford actually starts booming again in a few years! It's desperate as it is.

BBM77

JMT2016 wrote: »

It takes so long now to get from ferrybank into the city it's not funny!!

Almost 50 minutes to get to Poleberry it took me during the week - I'd have been parked up in Kilkenny City by the time I got into town. Madness.

This isn't a rant about the quays - I like what they are trying to do - but really there has to be something done here - people shouldn't have to be going over the toll bridge miles out of the way just to get a few bits in town in a reasonable time.

Would they ever think of putting in a bridge like somewhere connecting Ross Abbey with Ardkeen? It would help ferrybank folk getting to the hospital as well.

I like the idea of the footbridge over to the clock tower but that's not much help if you have do the shopping in town!

They are looking at building a new bridge, very early stages admittedly.

http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/general-stories/new-bridge-mooted-near-maypark-lane/

Harry Palmr

There is literally nowhere to put the link road on the Waterford side of the river. The other issue is that even if there were the ORR at Ardkeen is a pathetic two lane road and already overloaded with traffic movement.

The only remotely sensible thing to do would be to put another link from the N25 down to near Bellview cross the river at Faithlegge and run a road along the riverside at Kings Channel and then join the Dunmore road at Ballymaclode and then run a new Outer Outer Ring road link across to the ORR at the Airport road roundabout. This would kill two birds as the Dunmore road traffic would have a quicker more direct route to the industrial west of the City

Something like this! (anyone got 100m euro?!)

allthedoyles

There is an easier solution and that is to remove the toll off the ring road

JMT2016

Harry Palmr wrote: »

There is literally nowhere to put the link road on the Waterford side of the river. The other issue is that even if there were the ORR at Ardkeen is a pathetic two lane road and already overloaded with traffic movement.

Yep it wasn't future proofed that's for sure!

How about the old Glanbia site at the side of the hospital? would only be a two lane road but it would sure beat the two lane quay these days. Doesn't have to be a massive road to be really helpful.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The only remotely sensible thing to do would be to put another link from the N25 down to near Bellview cross the river at Faithlegge and run a road along the riverside at Kings Channel and then join the Dunmore road at Ballymaclode and then run a new Outer Outer Ring road link across to the ORR at the Airport road roundabout. This would kill two birds as the Dunmore road traffic would have a quicker more direct route to the industrial west of the City

Something like this! (anyone got 100m euro?!)

That would be the rolls royce option alright!

JMT2016

BBM77 wrote: »

They are looking at building a new bridge, very early stages admittedly.

Cheers - snap! Maypark lane is where the Glanbia site is - delighted they're at least exploring the option.

They could always CPO some of the large Dunmore Road houses if they were really stuck for sites

Harry Palmr

As I say though that just empties more traffic into a fit to burst road system - anyone who commutes in and out of the City along the Dunmore Road knows what it's like every work day, esp if there are an roadworks

JourneyMan8

Harry Palmr wrote: »

As I say though that just empties more traffic into a fit to burst road system - anyone who commutes in and out of the City along the Dunmore Road knows what it's like every work day, esp if there are an roadworks

yup - keep your traffic Ferrybank we don't want it

Jamie2k9

They could always go underground if there is no suitable overground route....its about time they gave use a tunnel like Dublin/Cork/Limerick :rolleyes:

beauf

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They could always go underground if there is no suitable overground route....its about time they gave use a tunnel like Dublin/Cork/Limerick :rolleyes:

Dublin tunnel is €10

https://dublintunnel.ie/tolls_and_permitted_vehicles/

O Riain

BBM77 wrote: »

JMT2016 wrote: »

It takes so long now to get from ferrybank into the city it's not funny!!

Almost 50 minutes to get to Poleberry it took me during the week - I'd have been parked up in Kilkenny City by the time I got into town. Madness.

This isn't a rant about the quays - I like what they are trying to do - but really there has to be something done here - people shouldn't have to be going over the toll bridge miles out of the way just to get a few bits in town in a reasonable time.

Would they ever think of putting in a bridge like somewhere connecting Ross Abbey with Ardkeen? It would help ferrybank folk getting to the hospital as well.

I like the idea of the footbridge over to the clock tower but that's not much help if you have do the shopping in town!

They are looking at building a new bridge, very early stages admittedly.

http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/general-stories/new-bridge-mooted-near-maypark-lane/

Like to know where they are going to get the money from. The government has to subsidise the toll bridge when the numbers are not up to scratch so if they helped fund a second bridge, that subsequently reduces the traffic on the toll, then it would be costing more than the just capital investment for the second bridge.

The bridge would also need to be lifted otherwise we will no longer be able to have ships in the city centre.

beauf

I suppose they never considered people would prefer to sit in traffic for 50mins than pay €2

Jamie2k9

beauf wrote: »

I suppose they never considered people would prefer to sit in traffic for 50mins than pay 2

The long detour that bypass would take make it worth sitting in traffic. I dont see the toll been the problem.

50 mns in this case is not normal even if the quay is that bad.

beauf

The toll always comes up in any thread on Waterford traffic.

Feeding more traffic into the city centre (new bridge) isn't going to fix the problem of traffic going through the centre. If the capacity of the city centre is the issue. As the traffic is after the bridge it suggests the problem is not the bridge, but after that.

Has there been any traffic study of journeys, the time take on alternative routes. A lot of people only know one way to a place and very reluctant to learn a new route. Its a bit of a lemming train.

Dunmoreroader

Think I saw the proposed route for the bridge mooted for Maypark Lane coming right through the entrance to the nursing home;
https://goo.gl/maps/7MnQR4R3npr
Its doable and a lot of the traffic that Harry Palmr refers to is not just going into the city but also includes lots going north across Rice bridge which would divert across a Maypark-Christendom alternative e.g Dunmore holidaymakers, UHW hospital visitors/patients from Wex/KK/Carlow etc. Dunmore road residents working in Ferrybank/KK etc. (its not oneway Journeyman 8).
The model drawings I've seen show it as high-level so no interference with river traffic.
So just the moo-la from the government and the NIMBY objectors in Freshfield & Maypark to worry about. So should be in place by the 20's................. 2120's.

JMT2016

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The long detour that bypass would take make it worth sitting in traffic. I dont see the toll been the problem.

50 mns in this case is not normal even if the quay is that bad.

Exactly, it would be like taking the M50 to get from Santry to Dun Laoighaire. The price isn't the problem it's just the physical distance doesn't make it a decent alternative.

Oh yes 50 mins is not the norm - as I said, I got every red light in heavy traffic.... but it is still shocking that the main arteries through the city are so clogged it takes ridiculous amounts of time to get around.

JMT2016

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Think I saw the proposed route for the bridge mooted for Maypark Lane coming right through the entrance to the nursing home;
Its doable and a lot of the traffic that Harry Palmr refers to is not just going into the city but also includes lots going north across Rice bridge which would divert across a Maypark-Christendom alternative e.g Dunmore holidaymakers, UHW hospital visitors/patients from Wex/KK/Carlow etc. Dunmore road residents working in Ferrybank/KK etc. (its not oneway Journeyman 8).

Totally agree - these people are totally ignored by the current set up.

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

The model drawings I've seen show it as high-level so no interference with river traffic.
So just the moo-la from the government and the NIMBY objectors in Freshfield & Maypark to worry about. So should be in place by the 20's................. 2120's.

I don't think it will take that long - the delays are going to get much worse and it will become obvious that a new traffic bridge will be the priority not a cycle path Clock-Tower to Ferrybank.

JMT2016

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Think I saw the proposed route for the bridge mooted for Maypark Lane coming right through the entrance to the nursing home;
Its doable and a lot of the traffic that Harry Palmr refers to is not just going into the city but also includes lots going north across Rice bridge which would divert across a Maypark-Christendom alternative e.g Dunmore holidaymakers, UHW hospital visitors/patients from Wex/KK/Carlow etc. Dunmore road residents working in Ferrybank/KK etc. (its not oneway Journeyman 8).

Totally agree - these people are totally ignored by the current set up.

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

The model drawings I've seen show it as high-level so no interference with river traffic.
So just the moo-la from the government and the NIMBY objectors in Freshfield & Maypark to worry about. So should be in place by the 20's................. 2120's.

I don't think it will take that long - the delays are going to get much worse and it will become obvious that a new traffic bridge will be the priority not a cycle path Clock-Tower to Ferrybank.

beauf

JMT2016 wrote: »

Exactly, it would be like taking the M50 to get from Santry to Dun Laoighaire. The price isn't the problem it's just the physical distance doesn't make it a decent alternative.

Oh yes 50 mins is not the norm - as I said, I got every red light in heavy traffic.... but it is still shocking that the main arteries through the city are so clogged it takes ridiculous amounts of time to get around.

Well thats a bad example as there no difference in time, and our M50 is usually a car park with accidents, every hour or so. its often quicker to avoid it.

Googling, ferry bank to Poleberry is about 14 min cycle.

Yeah I know it doesn't suit everyone. But just saying.

TheQuietFella

O Riain wrote: »

Like to know where they are going to get the money from. The government has to subsidise the toll bridge when the numbers are not up to scratch so if they helped fund a second bridge, that subsequently reduces the traffic on the toll, then it would be costing more than the just capital investment for the second bridge.

The bridge would also need to be lifted otherwise we will no longer be able to have ships in the city centre.

Apple are going to pay for it out of the goodness of its heart!!!

http://www.independent.ie/business/brussels-set-to-demand-years-of-extra-tax-payments-from-apple-35003372.html

JMT2016

beauf wrote: »

Well thats a bad example as there no difference in time, and our M50 is usually a car park with accidents, every hour or so. its often quicker to avoid it.

Googling, ferry bank to Poleberry is about 14 min cycle.

Yeah I know it doesn't suit everyone. But just saying.

Sorry I meant Sutton to Dun-laoghaire!

How long does ferrybank to Poleberry take to cycle with 2 kids and 6*2 litres of water?!

Cycling just is not an option for many people.

road_high

Think what's happened in Waterford is the local authority are after completing choking up the Quays with all this traffic management bs. Noticed it last few times I was down, what was once a nice wide free flowing road had been reduced to two lane. I assume they are trying to force more cars to use the toll road by doing this by making it less attractive to use the old route.

JMT2016

road_high wrote: »

Think what's happened in Waterford is the local authority are after completing choking up the Quays with all this traffic management bs. Noticed it last few times I was down, what was once a nice wide free flowing road had been reduced to two lane. I assume they are trying to force more cars to use the toll road by doing this by making it less attractive to use the old route.

Well they are definitely trying to make fewer cars use the quay, and I think that's a good thing for the long-term because it will help invigorate the quays once again!

But without a proper link to the hub that is the Dunmore Road etc... it really won't work.

We really need to have a complete ring road - the horseshoe won't do!!

Jamie2k9

road_high wrote: »

Think what's happened in Waterford is the local authority are after completing choking up the Quays with all this traffic management bs. Noticed it last few times I was down, what was once a nice wide free flowing road had been reduced to two lane. I assume they are trying to force more cars to use the toll road by doing this by making it less attractive to use the old route.

I wouldn't call it a free flowing road previously, traffic was still ridiculously bad and this had added to the problem. I don't think having a dual carriageway (lane wise) on the quays was suitable either.

The bus lanes need to go as they are not used by buses and some traffic light time changes would help a lot. The traffic flow from Lanbard Street is the real problem and it's the levels they allow each light change which is responsible for clogging up quay between there and the first roundabout, not even half the level of cares on Parnel Street get through the same set of lights.

Overall better sequence of traffic lights between the bridge and the Mall is needed.

beauf

JMT2016 wrote: »

Sorry I meant Sutton to Dun-laoghaire!

I'm not seeing that makes a difference. The M50 is still a car park. Accidents on it constantly. You'd avoid it for that reason alone.

JMT2016 wrote: »

How long does ferrybank to Poleberry take to cycle with 2 kids and 6*2 litres of water?!

Cycling just is not an option for many people.

I made that point already.

But...

Probably the same time. Its under 15mins, and only a few bottles of water.

http://tinyurl.com/jd8czgl

We've become normalized to doing everything in a car. Even when its not required.

JohnC.

People who think it was free flowing before have memory problems.

Getting into Waterford from across the bridge was a nightmare. Often backed up past the crossing gates on the Limerick road at busy times. Out to Dawn Meats a few times I can remember. It was only free flowing at certain quiet times. Guess what, it still is, and the bad times are not nearly as bad.

Cabaal

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The bus lanes need to go as they are not used by buses and some traffic light time changes would help a lot. The traffic flow from Lanbard Street is the real problem and it's the levels they allow each light change which is responsible for clogging up quay between there and the first roundabout, not even half the level of cares on Parnel Street get through the same set of lights.

Overall better sequence of traffic lights between the bridge and the Mall is needed.

So what you're saying is give total priority to the cars and less priority to public transport, bikes and pedestrians?

Much of the traffic coming off the Dunmore road could take the bypass and really has no place what so ever going through the Quays, for the time they loose on the quays they'd be faster on the bypass and the quays would be a nicer place.

The idea for the quays is to put people off using it as a through road, instead the council want only people that want to shop or do business in the city centre coming in. They want people walking around, people cycling and people on public transport.

You're suggesting that public transport priority should be scrapped, pedestrians should have to wait longer at all crossing points which will lead to more jay walking and the place should be made more unsafe for cyclists just so people can use the quays as a through road.

Whats needed here is a mindset change, not basically reverting everything to the way things used to be.

Jamie2k9

Cabaal wrote: »

So what you're saying is give total priority to the cars and less priority to public transport, bikes and pedestrians?

Much of the traffic coming off the Dunmore road could take the bypass and really has no place what so ever going through the Quays, for the time they loose on the quays they'd be faster on the bypass and the quays would be a nicer place.

The idea for the quays is to put people off using it as a through road, instead the council want only people that want to shop or do business in the city center coming in. They want people walking around, people cycling and people on public transport.

You're suggesting that public transport priority should be scrapped, pedestrians should have to wait longer at all crossing points which will lead to more jay walking and the place should be made more unsafe for cyclists just so people can use the quays as a through road.

Whats needed here is a mindset change, not basically reverting everything to the way things used to be.

No I am not but the current set up is doing nothing for public transport.

The bus lanes are not practical the way they are done, take for example heading towards the tour, you have a lane for a couple of meters before it ends and turns into the Lombard Street turn, not a single bus uses it because they won't be able to get back into the correct lane at the Tower.

You then have the other lane heading for the bridge where only a few express intercity buses use however they don't really use it either.

If you cannot be bothered doing it properly then don't bother at all is what I am saying.

TheQuietFella

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

No I am not but the current set up is doing nothing for public transport.

The bus lanes are not practical the way they are done, take for example heading towards the tour, you have a lane for a couple of meters before it ends and turns into the Lanbart Street turn, not a single bus uses it because they won't be able to get back into the correct lane at the Tower.

You then have the other lane heading for the bridge where only a few express intercity buses use however they don't really use it either.

If you cannot be bothered doing it properly then don't bother at all is what I am saying.

I assume it's Lombard Street that you're referring to!

Jambo

Here is a map of the suggested route for bridge / eastern bypass (Blue Hatched Line is the proposed route)





Source

Harry Palmr

Jambo wrote: »

Here is a map of the suggested route for bridge / eastern bypass (Blue Hatched Line is the proposed route)

Source

Utter madness, can you imagine the volume of traffic morning and evening trying to get onto or off the Dunmore road at the poxy Maypark/Ardkeen roundabout? The tailbacks would be massive.

TheQuietFella

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Utter madness, can you imagine the volume of traffic morning and evening trying to get onto or off the Dunmore road at the poxy Maypark/Ardkeen roundabout? The tailbacks would be massive.

Why? Has Kilkenny become an employment hotspot?

Harry Palmr

You clearly have no idea about how many people commute from South Kilkenny and Wexford to the WIT, the industrial est and surrounding areas like Genzyme and they have to go home in the evening!

They'd make a beeline for that route and head down the ORR.

JMT2016

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Utter madness, can you imagine the volume of traffic morning and evening trying to get onto or off the Dunmore road at the poxy Maypark/Ardkeen roundabout? The tailbacks would be massive.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

You clearly have no idea about how many people commute from South Kilkenny and Wexford to the WIT, the industrial est and surrounding areas like Genzyme and they have to go home in the evening!

They'd make a beeline for that route and head down the ORR.

But if it was tolled though...? look at the east link in Dublin.

The locals who know the city won't need to pay it as they know the maze of streets in the old town.

The reason the others would be tempted to take that route is because it is a badly needed route for connectivity around the city!!

Imagine if the toll was lifted on the Meagher bridge and then a toll was on the "Ardkeen" bridge. If it was made high enough Maypark could cope with the traffic from it.

I have no doubt there would be plenty of demand and would pay for itself unlike the Meagher bridge.

JMT2016

No reason why the toll couldn't be time dependent.

You want to skip the quay and dunmore road traffic at 5pm - Save 30 mins & pay 3euro

Person from Ferrybank wants to go to Next in ardkeen saturday afternoon - Save 15 mins & pay 1.40

Max Powers

IMO any new vehicle river crossing on east side of city would have to be lot further out for various reasons, somewhere out near/past ballygunner would be most appropriate which would need to link into ORR then.

Harry Palmr

Max Powers wrote: »

IMO any new vehicle river crossing on east side of city would have to be lot further out for various reasons, somewhere out near/past ballygunner would be most appropriate which would need to link into ORR then.

See my map on the previous page!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100835394&postcount=14

allthedoyles

With the South-East now the fastest growing region outside of Dublin , this may happen sooner rather than later .

TheQuietFella

Harry Palmr wrote: »

You clearly have no idea about how many people commute from South Kilkenny and Wexford to the WIT, the industrial est and surrounding areas like Genzyme and they have to go home in the evening!

They'd make a beeline for that route and head down the ORR.

Sorry Harry! That was my attempt at sarcasm!

I'm well aware of the influx of economic refugees from other counties!!!

Harry Palmr

Fair enough!