Jewish Graves Vandalised in Belfast

ClovenHoof

Why does the image of toothless knuckle-scrappers in Celtic jerseys proclaiming "unlike Rangers, we have always been an inclusive club..." pop into my head while reading about this sickening event.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0828/812457-jewish-graves-belfast/

horsebox1977

How do you know the perpetrators were wearing Celtic jerseys, Celtic fans or even Nationalists?

Lots of Loyalist groups have links to C18 and other Nazi groups, ironic enough that they also 'stand with Israel' but that's another topic.

Collie D

That's some speculative OP.

Widdershins

Disgusting.

Your Face

I just had an outrage jizz.

bodice ripper

It fries my brain that anyone on this island is anti Semitic. How much can you even be interacting with Jews here?

Peregrine

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Why does the image of toothless knuckle-scrappers in Celtic jerseys proclaiming "unlike Rangers, we have always been an inclusive club..." pop into my head while reading about this sickening event.

Because you're presumptive and possibly biased.

NIMAN

The Jews end up involved in Irish political life because they are seen by one side as enemies of the friends of my enemies......if you get my drift.

Typical NI.

ClovenHoof

horsebox1977 wrote: »

How do you know the perpetrators were wearing Celtic jerseys, Celtic fans or even Nationalists?

Lots of Loyalist groups have links to C18 and other Nazi groups, ironic enough that they also 'stand with Israel' but that's another topic.

Eh, Celtic shinbots waving hamas flags...like CONSTANTLY.

The loyalist tend to pro Zionist.

Honestly is your world view really that infantile and archaic? Things up north be different. Even the BNP is pro Isreal.

I am pro Isreal myself and I hate the BNP and Orange Order.

Our lives and society are more complex than either daily mail and Guardian editorials my friend.

A Little Pony

When anti Israel talk is condoned from Republicans this is what happens. Jewish people are seen as animals by them and thus these thugs don't see them as human beings.

Wigglepuppy

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Eh, Celtic shinbots waving hamas flags...like CONSTANTLY.

The loyalist tend to pro Zionist.

Honestly is your world view really that infantile.

Is yours? What about the point made by someone that some loyalist scum have links to far-right extremists?

NIMAN

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The loyalist tend to pro Zionist.

Except when they are anti-Zionist of course.

https://edinburghnapiernews.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/rangers_nazi_salute_israel_2.jpg

Nazi salutes by people flying the Israel flag, you couldn't make it up.

Wigglepuppy

A Little Pony wrote: »

When anti Israel talk is condoned from Republicans this is what happens. Jewish people are seen as animals by them and thus these thugs don't see them as human beings.

Like how loyalists see nationalists.

And you don't know who did it, so not sure how you can state "this is what happens". By the way, I have never known of Irish republicans to refer to Jewish people as animals. I have heard of right-wing extremists doing so though.

Wigglepuppy

bodice ripper wrote: »

It fries my brain that anyone on this island is anti Semitic. How much can you even be interacting with Jews here?

Probably hatred of Israel. And extreme stupidity - don't forget extreme stupidity.

smurgen

NIMAN wrote: »

Except when they are anti-Zionist of course.

https://edinburghnapiernews.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/rangers_nazi_salute_israel_2.jpg

Nazi salutes by people flying the Israel flag, you couldn't make it up.

Christ all mighty,the lack of self awareness in some people is breath taking

NIMAN

To be fair, don't think there's any cure for cancer amongst those lads....

lawlolawl

bodice ripper wrote: »

It fries my brain that anyone on this island is anti Semitic. How much can you even be interacting with Jews here?

It's the North, what do you expect?

They'd fight with someone who has different coloured hair than them.

A Little Pony

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

When anti Israel talk is condoned from Republicans this is what happens. Jewish people are seen as animals by them and thus these thugs don't see them as human beings.

Like how loyalists see nationalists.

And you don't know who did it, so not sure how you can state "this is what happens". By the way, I have never known of Irish republicans to refer to Jewish people as animals. I have heard of right-wing extremists doing so though.

Sinn Fein response to it indicates it was. Seen it plenty of times with anti Jewish rhetoric.

ClovenHoof

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

Is yours? What about the point made by someone that some loyalist scum have links to far-right extremists?

Far right on these island is pro isreal these days.

The national front and c18 lost their influence decades ago.

The issue is arabs for the far right now and they now consider Israel an ally.

They world has changed since Billy Bragg bought his Marxist ocean view stately manor.

Calahonda52

bodice ripper wrote: »

It fries my brain that anyone on this island is anti Semitic. How much can you even be interacting with Jews here?

The current Treasury Sec in the US is one, Jack Lew, who is driving the pro Apple tax case against the EC, and also had a hand in the no bondholders burning deal, Phase II.
Jews hold considerable financial power in the US and the deal Tim Geithner forced on Ire Inc re Anglo etc was driven in large measure by Jews in Wall Street.

artanevilla

Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism.

Wigglepuppy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein response to it indicates it was. Seen it plenty of times with anti Jewish rhetoric.

Calling them animals? Sure you have.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Far right on these island is pro isreal these days.

The national front and c18 lost their influence decades ago.

The issue is arabs for the far right now and they now consider Israel an ally.

They world has changed since Billy Bragg bought his Marxist ocean view stately manor.

You're right, but pretty shallow stuff to consider an enemy a friend so easily - the sincerity deserves to be questioned. Are the holocaust deniers suddenly admitting it happened?

You could be right that this was done by republicans because of Israel - there is a strong chance, but to pay more attention to the possibility that they were wearing celtic jerseys than the grotesque act of vandalism itself is weird. It's also strange not to even consider that it was done by loyalists. While much of the far right has decided that the Jews are OK (which makes you wonder what their problem was with them in the first place if they were able to change their point of view so easily) plenty are still extremely anti semitic. Don't be thinking just because there is an Israeli flag hanging in their estate (it's aimed at republicans and nationalists who hang Palestinian flags - it's not because loyalists are "with" Israel ) that a loyalist who's not too bright would not still do this. Someone already posted about the hilarious Israeli flag/Nazi salute combination.

Nick Griffin was a renowned anti semitic - wow, how easy it was for him to turn around.

RasTa

bodice ripper wrote: »

It fries my brain that anyone on this island is anti Semitic. How much can you even be interacting with Jews here?

They come over from time to time to destroy the Sean Russel statue

MRnotlob606

OP sounding very pompous.

ClovenHoof

The world appears to be moving towards a more anarchist mindset as left and right merge and disolve into one another. Liberal lefties living in all white gated des res communities while screaming about the 1% when they are the 1%, and self proclaimed racialists standing behind the Jewish state, anti death penalty types idolising a murderous imperialist psychopath like Hillary Clinton, while Trump who ordered the bombing of no one is their devil...

Let politics die in this schizophrenic miasma which will only be a good thing in time. A pox on all your houses.

Junkyard Tom

smurgen wrote: »

Christ all mighty,the lack of self awareness in some people is breath taking

When those dimwits fly Israeli flags they probably have no idea what it means to Israelis or Jews - they fly them because them'uns fly the Palestinian flag.

The ones who are able to do simple jigsaws are probably enamoured by the Israeli state's treatment of Palestinians/Arabs and identify with the colonial/settler aspect of Israel.

The poor fools are blissfully unaware that they're the Arabs of Ireland and their UVF controlled ghettos are the West Bank cantons of the future.

dav3

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The world appears to be moving towards a more anarchist mindset as left and right merge and disolve into one another. Liberal lefties living in all white gated des res communities while screaming about the 1% when they are the 1%, and self proclaimed racialists standing behind the Jewish state, anti death penalty types idolising a murderous imperialist psychopath like Hillary Clinton, while Trump who ordered the bombing of no one is their devil...

Let politics die in this schizophrenic miasma which will only be a good thing in time. A pox on all your houses.

What was the point of the OP? Was it just so you could post that childish rant above?

Thank god we have far right people like yourself to tell us how it is.

ClovenHoof

dav3 wrote: »

What was the point of the OP? Was it just so you could post that childish rant above?

Thank god we have far right people like yourself to tell us how it is.

Me far right! Has the ink from the Socialist Worker seeped into that paper cut you sustained in your civil service "job" during your sixteen week sick leave due to this injury?

I am apolitical, its called being an individual. You should try it at least once.

dav3

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Me far right! Has the ink from the Socialist Worker seeped into that paper cut you sustained in your civil service "job" during your sixteen week sick leave due to this injury?

I am apolitical, its called being an individual. You should try it at least once.

Oh yes I forgot, you far right lot like to be referred to as 'alt-right' these days. It makes you sound edgy and down with the kids.

You're "apolitical"? Of course you are. Quit the bull****, you're fooling no one.

Dyr

The brethren up north have a fairly long history of vandalizing republican graves

the OP probably is'nt aware of that though

ClovenHoof

dav3 wrote: »

Oh yes I forgot, you far right lot like to be referred to as 'alt-right' these days. It makes you sound edgy and down with the kids.

You're "apolitical"? Of course you are. Quit the bull****, you're fooling no one.

Is my SS Eizengruppen uniform that obvious?

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

The brethren up north have a fairly long history of vandalizing republican graves

the OP probably is'nt aware of that though

Graves and memorials have been targetted a few times up North.

I can see why suspicion might fall on the Nationalist community given the address, damage caused to British Army graves there in the past etc. Not sure about the Celtic link...

horsebox1977

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Eh, Celtic shinbots waving hamas flags...like CONSTANTLY.

The loyalist tend to pro Zionist.

Honestly is your world view really that infantile and archaic? Things up north be different. Even the BNP is pro Isreal.

I am pro Isreal myself and I hate the BNP and Orange Order.

Our lives and society are more complex than either daily mail and Guardian editorials my friend.

I've only ever seen Celtic supporters waving Palestine flags. Not Hamas flags.

I agree that Loyalists tend to be pro Israel but they also have links to C18 and other Nazi groups.

It's quite ironic, don't you think.

This gentleman is a regular contributor to the BelTel and other NI social media forums before he was named and shamed.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/nazi-grandad-regrets-swastika-tattoo-34841173.html

Grayson

Can't wa all agree that they're all nutjobs up north.

I honestly don't think that smashing up jewish graves is beyond the fringes of either side.

enfant terrible

Calahonda52 wrote: »

The current Treasury Sec in the US is one, Jack Lew, who is driving the pro Apple tax case against the EC, and also had a hand in the no bondholders burning deal, Phase II.
Jews hold considerable financial power in the US and the deal Tim Geithner forced on Ire Inc re Anglo etc was driven in large measure by Jews in Wall Street.

Ah it was the Jews fault, I thought so.

goose2005

Peregrine wrote: »

Because you're presumptive and possibly biased.

No, because recently there has been aggro between Celtic fans and Israelis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/27/why-celtic-fans-flew-flag-for-palestine
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/champions-league/israeli-police-warn-celtic-fans-not-to-fly-palestinian-flags-on-tuesday-night-1.2765691

ClovenHoof

Grayson wrote: »

Can't wa all agree that they're all nutjobs up north.

I honestly don't think that smashing up jewish graves is beyond the fringes of either side.

Jokers to the left, jokers to the right...

...here I am stuck in the middle with Jews.

mailforkev

Did we find out if they were Catholic Jews or Protestant Jews?

SEPT 23 1989

Lowest of the low

horsebox1977

goose2005 wrote: »

No, because recently there has been aggro between Celtic fans and Israelis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/27/why-celtic-fans-flew-flag-for-palestine
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/champions-league/israeli-police-warn-celtic-fans-not-to-fly-palestinian-flags-on-tuesday-night-1.2765691

That doesn't link them to vandalising graves in Belfast nor does it make them anti-Semitic either.

Funny that Celtic face a fine for a a political emblem yet we have a poppy embased on footballers shirts right across the UK. How odd.

FTA69

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein response to it indicates it was. Seen it plenty of times with anti Jewish rhetoric.

Any chance of a link to some anti-Jewish rhetoric from Sinn Féin? Or are you just making things up?

Funnily enough I'm a Republican and have no bother at all interacting or socialising with Jewish friends and colleagues on a regular basis. Likewise in Israel itself I managed to get on with most people I met.

This automatic conflation of being critical of Israel as a state and its policies with Jewish people is an unfair and highly disingenuous trait, usually undertaken by people seeking to imply anything and everything toward those who rightly criticise Israel's policy of dispossession and colonisation.

I'm always a bit baffled by people who defend Israel to the hilt; something tells me if they had to spend a few days in a refugee camp in the West Bank or wintnessed soldiers in armoured ploughs demolishing a village olive grove they'd think a bit differently.

getzls

horsebox1977 wrote: »

How do you know the perpetrators were wearing Celtic jerseys, Celtic fans or even Nationalists?

Lots of Loyalist groups have links to C18 and other Nazi groups, ironic enough that they also 'stand with Israel' but that's another topic.

Maybe because a RC Bishop condemned it.
Or the fact the cemetery is in a strong Nationlalist / Republican area.
Him!!@ Loyalists side ingredients with the only democratic State in the middle east, sounds fair to me.
Especially compared to Nationalists supporting a Palestinian terrorism.
Republicans showing their true colours by supporting their fellow Terrorists.

getzls

horsebox1977 wrote: »

How do you know the perpetrators were wearing Celtic jerseys, Celtic fans or even Nationalists?

Lots of Loyalist groups have links to C18 and other Nazi groups, ironic enough that they also 'stand with Israel' but that's another topic.

Maybe because a RC Bishop condemned it.
Or the fact the cemetery is in a strong Nationlalist / Republican area.
Him!!@ Loyalists side ingredients with the only democratic State in the middle east, sounds fair to me.
Especially compared to Nationalists supporting a Palestinian terrorism.
Republicans showing their true colours by supporting their fellow Terrorists.

getzls

Bambi wrote: »

The brethren up north have a fairly long history of vandalizing republican graves

the OP probably is'nt aware of that though

Just do a Google, damage to War Graves in Belfast to see who really does the destruction.
Also have a wee look at the story of the damage done to the memorial or the 3 Scottish Soldiers that were murdered.

Riddle101

This is all just speculation and finger pointing. There's no proof as to which side actually did the deed. Hell it could have been a bunch of rowdy teenagers looking to do some vandalism cause they got bored for all we know. Best to wait until there's some more closure I think.

Either way, it's disgraceful whoever did vandalize those graves.

Collie D

getzls wrote: »

Maybe because a RC Bishop condemned it.
Or the fact the cemetery is in a strong Nationlalist / Republican area.
Him!!@ Loyalists side ingredients with the only democratic State in the middle east, sounds fair to me.
Especially compared to Nationalists supporting a Palestinian terrorism.
Republicans showing their true colours by supporting their fellow Terrorists.

So the fact a Catholic bishop condemns this means it was perpetrated by Celtic fans/Catholics/Republicans/etc.

That is one very weak argument.

It may well have been nationalists, but from what we know it may well have Loyalists. Hell, it could have been a few local ISIS sympathisers.

The_Kew_Tour

I hope whoever did this gets their bad luck

Would they like it to happen to their family?

horsebox1977

getzls wrote: »

Maybe because a RC Bishop condemned it.
Or the fact the cemetery is in a strong Nationlalist / Republican area.
Him!!@ Loyalists side ingredients with the only democratic State in the middle east, sounds fair to me.
Especially compared to Nationalists supporting a Palestinian terrorism.
Republicans showing their true colours by supporting their fellow Terrorists.

Again speculation and some sweeping statements there but that's to be expected.
Them un's constantly claiming the moral high ground.

Graves from both communities gets vandalised which is wrong and should be condemned and stopped.

It's a despicable thing to be doing.

LordSutch

I wonder will we get to hear who desecrated the graves & why
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/28/jewish-graves-desecrated-belfast-cemetery

There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to their actions.

getzls

Collie D wrote: »

getzls wrote: »

Maybe because a RC Bishop condemned it.
Or the fact the cemetery is in a strong Nationlalist / Republican area.
Him!!@ Loyalists side ingredients with the only democratic State in the middle east, sounds fair to me.
Especially compared to Nationalists supporting a Palestinian terrorism.
Republicans showing their true colours by supporting their fellow Terrorists.

So the fact a Catholic bishop condemns this means it was perpetrated by Celtic fans/Catholics/Republicans/etc.

That is one very weak argument.

It may well have been nationalists, but from what we know it may well have Loyalists. Hell, it could have been a few local ISIS sympathisers.

I didn't mention Celtic supporters.
Well, yes it may have been a few ISIS supporters who also support Palestinian terrorism and the IRA.

Wigglepuppy

getzls wrote: »

Maybe because a RC Bishop condemned it.
Or the fact the cemetery is in a strong Nationlalist / Republican area.
Him!!@ Loyalists side ingredients with the only democratic State in the middle east, sounds fair to me.
Especially compared to Nationalists supporting a Palestinian terrorism.
Republicans showing their true colours by supporting their fellow Terrorists.

The bishop bit is hilarious - yes, condemnation by him must mean it was republicans.

Loyalists don't side with Israel because of it being the only democratic state in the middle east (particularly the ones who have buddies in far right extremist organisations), they pretend to side with it because of republicans and nationalists supporting Palestine.