when will people stop worshipping God / a God / a higher mortal?

beach_walker

Grayson wrote: »

I'm a god parent and an atheist. The reason I was asked is because I know more about ethics and religion than most people and I can be relied upon for moral guidance. The only thing I had to do in the ceremony is reject Satan.

Well...

From the Rties of the Sacrament

Celebrant: Do you believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
Parents and Godparents: I do.

Sam Kade

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

People will simply believe some other bollocks. Be it unicorns, lizard people, aliens or whatever other nonsense comes their way. Human beings it seems have to believe some kind of utter irrational bollocks and get very offended when challenged on it.

You left out man made climate change and how we are all doomed.

Lux23

There is no problem with people having their own beliefs as long as they don't try to impose them on the world.

Lux23

Sam Kade wrote: »

You left out man made climate change and how we are all doomed.

Climate change is similar to unicorns?

CMOTDibbler

Not sure in the context of this discussion what a 'higher mortal' is. Mortal meaning not immortal. As in a finite lifespan. Subject to mortality. etc.

BrokenArrows

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

with all the pain and suffering goes on in this world and a lot of it focused on innocent people dying will there ever come a time where people say "i've had it with you, i'm not worshipping a God in a world where so many bad things happen to good people" and then just stop believing/worshipping?

sorry if i was supposed to post this in the religious section of boards

When governments stop representing the interests of a single faith and stop pandering to the demands of any faith it will start to fade out.

Ireland has a specific problem where if you ask any random Irish person on the street what religion they are they will probably say "Catholic", but if you ask them if they actually believe in God i think you will find a lot will say No.

The reason for this is that kids are brought into the catholic church via the primary schools communion and confirmation process. Parents don't want their kids to be the "odd one out" so they just go along with it.

In the 2011 census 85% of the population reported as being catholic and if you have any common sense you know thats an inaccurate figure.

Then you get to the extreme other side of the issue being places like Saudi Arabia where the government and religion are basically the same entity. Religious laws are upheld in legal law and the public practice of any other religion is not allowed.

And then there is the weird Countries like the USA where "God" is part of the government but not really. Its a big part of elections and printed on the money "In God We Trust", swearing on a bible in court.

And dont get me started on the tax breaks that organized religions get.

Lt Dan

BrokenArrows wrote: »

When governments stop representing the interests of a single faith and stop pandering to the demands of any faith it will start to fade out.

Ireland has a specific problem where if you ask any random Irish person on the street what religion they are they will probably say "Catholic", but if you ask them if they actually believe in God i think you will find a lot will say No.

The reason for this is that kids are brought into the catholic church via the primary schools communion and confirmation process. Parents don't want their kids to be the "odd one out" so they just go along with it.

In the 2011 census 85% of the population reported as being catholic and if you have any common sense you know thats an inaccurate figure.

Then you get to the extreme other side of the issue being places like Saudi Arabia where the government and religion are basically the same entity. Religious laws are upheld in legal law and the public practice of any other religion is not allowed.

And then there is the weird Countries like the USA where "God" is part of the government but not really. Its a big part of elections and printed on the money "In God We Trust", swearing on a bible in court.

And dont get me started on the tax breaks that organized religions get.

You got what actual evidence to support the following contentions:

" but if you ask them if they actually believe in God i think you will find a lot will say No"

How many is a lot?

How many parents "just go along with it"?


"In the 2011 census 85% of the population reported as being catholic and if you have any common sense you know thats an inaccurate figure."

So people are lying on the census? Isn't that an offence? What makes them to be disqualified as calling themselves Catholic or whatever other religion they proclaim to be? Who makes the judgment?

This ain't Saudi Arabia . As a matter of fact, make legal principals shall from religious laws

Many Religious groups do community work, in fact, they are the only group that is effective in Community work. Where are all the bible bashers dealing with the homeless and junkies? Plenty in Dublin area. Without the Church, lord knows what the school and hospital system would have been like.

looksee

Lt Dan wrote: »

You got what actual evidence to support the following contentions:

" but if you ask them if they actually believe in God i think you will find a lot will say No"

How many is a lot?

How many parents "just go along with it"?


"In the 2011 census 85% of the population reported as being catholic and if you have any common sense you know thats an inaccurate figure."

So people are lying on the census? Isn't that an offence? What makes them to be disqualified as calling themselves Catholic or whatever other religion they proclaim to be? Who makes the judgment?

This ain't Saudi Arabia . As a matter of fact, make legal principals shall from religious laws

Many Religious groups do community work, in fact, they are the only group that is effective in Community work. Where are all the bible bashers dealing with the homeless and junkies? Plenty in Dublin area. Without the Church, lord knows what the school and hospital system would have been like.

The best known one, while named for a biblical figure, Simon of Cyrene, the Simon Community is not religious based. There may well be 'bible bashers' working for Simon, but that is not to say that it is 'their' community.

Atoms for Peace

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?

— Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125, tr. Walter Kaufmann

The_Valeyard

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?

— Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125, tr. Walter Kaufmann

God is Dead -Nietzsche, 1883

Nietzsche is Dead - God, 1900


An old one, but still gives a giggle.

Cheerful Spring

When the aliens arrive and look nothing like us and are smarter.

wakka12

Religion has endured for a long time. And even in the most educated wealthy crime free nations there is a huge religious population.So I would say not for the foreseeable future anyway..

The_Valeyard

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

When the aliens arrive and look nothing like us and are smarter.

Unless the alien race are a theocracy, who invade planets to collect God's and spirituality.

Laois_Man

I have been a cynical old codger all my life when it came to religion - however, there were times recently when I turned to it out of complete desperation in a very serious situation - and things worked out for me, when it had all looked hopeless

A coincidence maybe

But maybe not - and there has been no real explanation for the turnaround.

Just sayin!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

People will simply believe some other bollocks. Be it unicorns, lizard people, aliens or whatever other nonsense comes their way. Human beings it seems have to believe some kind of utter irrational bollocks and get very offended when challenged on it.

What's irrational about aliens?

Grayson

Lt Dan wrote: »

You got what actual evidence to support the following contentions:

" but if you ask them if they actually believe in God i think you will find a lot will say No"

How many is a lot?

How many parents "just go along with it"?


"In the 2011 census 85% of the population reported as being catholic and if you have any common sense you know thats an inaccurate figure."

So people are lying on the census? Isn't that an offence? What makes them to be disqualified as calling themselves Catholic or whatever other religion they proclaim to be? Who makes the judgment?

This ain't Saudi Arabia . As a matter of fact, make legal principals shall from religious laws

Many Religious groups do community work, in fact, they are the only group that is effective in Community work. Where are all the bible bashers dealing with the homeless and junkies? Plenty in Dublin area. Without the Church, lord knows what the school and hospital system would have been like.

www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/images/.../evs_4th_wave_report.pdf

This is a good source (go to page 15). An EU study examined belief in Ireland. There's some strange results. 91% of catholics believe in God. 71% believe in life after death. 76% believe in heaven. 21% believe in reincarnation

Cheerful Spring

Austin Enough Organ wrote: »

What's irrational about aliens?

Dinosaurs lived on this planet million of years ago, and they where the size of buildings. Imagine they where still around. People say Dragons never existed, but lets be honest here Dinosaurs looked very similar just without the fire breath.

gctest50

Grayson wrote: »

http://www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/images/stories/cco_publications/researchanddevelopment/evs_4th_wave_report.pdf (fixed up linky)

This is a good source (go to page 15). An EU study examined belief in Ireland. There's some strange results. 91% of catholics believe in God. 71% believe in life after death. 76% believe in heaven. 21% believe in reincarnation

tis yeah,

1000 out of 6,000,000

Republic of Ireland sample : 1,013 number of catholics : 827

"The survey organisation in the Republic of Ireland is TNS MRBI, a mainstream Dublin-based commercial survey organisation"

paniddlynee

You can forget it lads, theres only one true constant in humanity....its all a neverending cycle of bull****.

Check out the "tytler cycle"....named after a Scottish dude who saw the actual reality of life/society/civilisation.

Its a very interesting read, and quite difficult to get good information on it (lots of whack-jobs on youtube!) But a quick scoot through Wikipedia will give you the gist.

Heres my short and ****ty interpretation of it for todays society...a) We're approaching maybe the 3/4 mark of the cycle. That is to say, we're at the spoilt-bastard-questioning-unnecessary-things stage!

God and religion are intrinsically related to personal/societal circumstances.

Financially poor society = relatively more religious/believing in a higher power = hope = because they need it....generally leads to a more cohesive society that works together and has uniform morality. The individual sits below the group.

Wealthy society = relatively less religious = because they don't believe they need so much hope...generally leads to a fragmented society where the individual rises above community (at the communities expense, of course).

See a correlation with Ireland over the last few decades? Promises of personal wealth go up, religion goes down.

This is no comment on whether god exists or not. This applies simply to how humanity responds to its own-goals.

Just wait and see....the rise of the "I can do anything I want, **** you" mentality will invariably lead to the destruction of known society (for the millionth time!), and an eventual surge toward belief in "higher power" (for the millionth time) when it becomes hopeless for those left behind.

Rinse and repeat. Anyone, EVER, saying that certain undeniable facets of humanity are on the way out, such as religion, are crazily ignorant in my point of view.

(Someone mentioned something about aliens coming down and that changing everything...how about this logical sequence instead = Aliens arrive, gigantic upsurge in the belief of religion as being special against the odds, all in order to sustain the idea of self-worth and hope?!)

You want to know the future, just check the past. The day people actually change, well, that's the day we are no longer people. Not gonna happen!

To answer the OP's question directly? People will stop worshipping higher powers when they think they can make a go of it themselves. When the scam becomes apparent, that not every person can do anything they want, behave how they want, achieve everything they want....back to worshipping again. I'd say given the state of the world, we're looking at a phase of hopelessness for another 5-10 years before the **** really hits the fan, cue war, cue rise in religion again. Booyah.

Grayson

gctest50 wrote: »

tis yeah,

1000 out of 6,000,000

http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html

For a population of 3 million you need a sample size of 385 to be 95% confident in the results.

You need 664 to be 99% confident.

You probable won't believe it but it's maths.

BrokenArrows

Lt Dan wrote: »

" but if you ask them if they actually believe in God i think you will find a lot will say No"

How many is a lot?

How many parents "just go along with it"?

Just my personal experience.

Lt Dan wrote: »

"In the 2011 census 85% of the population reported as being catholic and if you have any common sense you know thats an inaccurate figure."

So people are lying on the census? Isn't that an offence? What makes them to be disqualified as calling themselves Catholic or whatever other religion they proclaim to be? Who makes the judgment?

This ain't Saudi Arabia . As a matter of fact, make legal principals shall from religious laws

They are not lying because they are legally Catholics because they were baptized as a kid.

The question on the census is:

What is your religion?

1 Roman Catholic
2 Church of Ireland
3 Islam
4 Presbyterian
5 Orthodox
6 Other, write in your RELIGION

This question assumes that everyone has a religion and the fact the if you have a religion that you both practice and believe it.

The questions should be more specific, such as:

Do you believe in a god? Yes/No

Do you belong to a specific religion? Yes/No

If you answered Yes what religion do you belong to?
1 Roman Catholic
2 Church of Ireland
3 Islam
4 Presbyterian
5 Orthodox
6 Other, write in your RELIGION

Do you actively practice your chosen religion? Yes/No

If you chose Yes to any of the above questions when was the last time you attended a place of worship for the purpose of practicing your religion?
< 1 Week
< 1 Month
< 6 Months
< 1 Year
< 5 years
5+ Years
Never

These questions would give us a true understanding of the religious state of our country.

Failing the more complex questionaire then the original question should have atheist as the first option.

What is your religion?

1 Atheist
2 Roman Catholic
3 Church of Ireland
4 Islam
5 Presbyterian
6 Orthodox
7 Other, write in your RELIGION

Your Face

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?

— Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125, tr. Walter Kaufmann

I remember first year.