Turkish tanks and special forces flooding into northern Syria as we speak!

KingBrian2

Gatling wrote: »

They have done feck all till russia started its heavy bombardments from the air the Assad regime only controlled 12% of the whole country,
Remember only 2 weeks ago russia and Assad had declared they has surrounded allepo completely and called for a surrender less than 4 days later then Siege of Aleppo was broken ,
Funny that ,

The Assad regime has been near bled dry they are now relying on Iran and Hezbollah to fight and guess what there getting a kicking and taking heavy losses despite heavy air attacks from Russia ,

Till someone is willing to put 200,000+ troops on the ground nighter Assad or russia is willing or able to

The Syrian ground forces have paid the ultimate price in blood for fighting ISIS. The US was told in 2013 that negotiating with Syrian gvt was the only solution to deescalate the violence but they persisted in supplying arms to the Turkish & Saudi backed Rebel militants. Did you really believe America would recognize a Kurdish state when Turkey was resolute not to have a Kurdish state on its border?

We now see President Erdogan has no interest in working with the Kurds and a while back it was mentioned that Gulen who is hiding in the US and whom he wanted extradited to Turkey for guess what for being hostile to Kurdish autonomy.

So lets make this plain, Turkey wants a terrorist Gulen returned to them, sounds reasonable. The cleric is opposed to initiatives to back a peace with Kurds yet Turkey is going into Syria not after ISIS but to go after the Kurds meanwhile it is left to others to take on the real terrorists of ISIS.

shane9689

I blame this all on the crusaders for wasting time in Damascus and letting Constantinople fall...
But in all seriousness, Its not safe having Turkey in Nato, not in this current mess anyways

Musketeer4

Turkish forces have apparently "eliminated" a large group of kurds while they were on the run from Manbij this morning.
Meanwhile, a security and policing complex in Cizre, Turkey has just been leveled in a bombing attack about 30-40 minutes ago. There at least around 90 casualties at first count. It is not yet clear who carried out the bombing.....

AbusesToilets

Bit of a disaster for the US. They are being played by Turkey beautifully and once again putting themselves in a position where they have to undermine their most steadfast Allies in the region.

Gatling

Apparently Turkey wants Aleppo ,
Now that we have Turkey on the ground wonder if isreal might decide to start hitting Hezbollah and add some extra spice to the soup

AbusesToilets

Free for all at the moment. The people living there are an afterthought. If Turkey keeps pushing, they are likely to come into conflict with Russia. Iran is not likely to allow them to threaten to overthrow Assad either. It's approaching WW1 levels of complexity here.

Junkyard Tom

I thought the Kurds were just about the only 'good guys' left in the whole mess and they get double-crossed by Turkey/US.

KingBrian2

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I thought the Kurds were just about the only 'good guys' left in the whole mess and they get double-crossed by Turkey/US.

We all seem to forget in all this that Syrian civilians be they Kurd or non Kurd are being killed by American bullets. That is the reality of this conflict that should not be overlooked.

lawred2

shane9689 wrote: »

I blame this all on the crusaders for wasting time in Damascus and letting Constantinople fall...
But in all seriousness, Its not safe having Turkey in Nato, not in this current mess anyways

Turkey have one of the world's largest military forces

I'd argue it's safer that they are in NATO

Gatling

lawred2 wrote: »

Turkey have one of the world's largest military forces

I'd argue it's safer that they are in NATO

Definitely the largest in the region the problem is how to keep them in nato and tow the line .
Syria wise they literally sat back the whole time isis was on there border and yet as soon as the kurds push isis out they get hammered by the turks

KingBrian2

Gatling wrote: »

Definitely the largest in the region the problem is how to keep them in nato and tow the line .
Syria wise they literally sat back the whole time isis was on there border and yet as soon as the kurds push isis out they get hammered by the turks

They damaged their relationship with Washington though. Don't know what the Democratic party's position with Ankara is, (nobody does exactly) but when it comes to Trump he is distancing himself from NATO seeing as that Cold War military alliance has outlived its existence. Nothing in the trans-Atlantic pact concerning extradition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty

shane9689

lawred2 wrote: »

Turkey have one of the world's largest military forces

I'd argue it's safer that they are in NATO

quality not quantity... They couldn't even take their own capital. (joking of course)

The only reason they're part of NATO is they're in a key strategic position

Slydice

I'm glad this thread is here. I wasn't sure if anyone was talking about it.

I'd heard the Turks did something a few days back but I thought it was just going to be some kind of reactionary thing.

Then I saw this article this evening saying they're still there:
At least 35 killed as Turkish army strikes deeper into Syria
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/at-least-35-killed-as-turkish-army-strikes-deeper-into-syria-1.2771234
Turkish forces seize sites held by Kurdish militia on fifth day of cross-border campaign

Like.. does this not look like an invasion of a sovereign? The only thing that stands out is that they haven't touched the actual Syrian Army yet. What happens if they hit the Syrian Army on Syrian soil? Like it's one thing Russia bombing Turkey which would trigger NATO but like.. is Syrian soil like a free for all or something? What am I missing? Can Russia be triggered into attacking Turkish forces on Syrian soil? Does NATO respond if that happens?

KingBrian2

Slydice wrote: »

I'm glad this thread is here. I wasn't sure if anyone was talking about it.

I'd heard the Turks did something a few days back but I thought it was just going to be some kind of reactionary thing.

Then I saw this article this evening saying they're still there:
At least 35 killed as Turkish army strikes deeper into Syria
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/at-least-35-killed-as-turkish-army-strikes-deeper-into-syria-1.2771234
Turkish forces seize sites held by Kurdish militia on fifth day of cross-border campaign

Like.. does this not look like an invasion of a sovereign? The only thing that stands out is that they haven't touched the actual Syrian Army yet. What happens if they hit the Syrian Army on Syrian soil? Like it's one thing Russia bombing Turkey which would trigger NATO but like.. is Syrian soil like a free for all or something? What am I missing? Can Russia be triggered into attacking Turkish forces on Syrian soil? Does NATO respond if that happens?

It becomes a case of you don't want to know at that point.

AbusesToilets

NATO doesn't technically have to respond if Russia attacks Turkish forces, but that would be the death knell of the organisation.

Gatling

AbusesToilets wrote: »

NATO doesn't technically have to respond if Russia attacks Turkish forces, but that would be the death knell of the organisation.

Russia will say it was Syrian forces unless an attack happens inside Turkey ,
Possible from the air but not the ground ,but I'd say Turkey's well prepared for any eventualities
If something happened between Russia and Turkey it would be limited in scope ,

Nato Article 5 has never been called upon in a situation like this,
If NATO sat back and did nothing if a hypothetical Russian attack on Turkey,
that would leave the Baltics open to Putin land grabs previously seen in Georgia and Ukraine

BoJack Horseman

This graphic from CNN I posted on the first page doesn't seem to come close to Turkish ambitions.

On the right side of the image, the Turks/FSA/Militias have pushed in 3 x more & are now 20kms into Syrian territory.
On the western side the FSA enclave is starting to push along the border with several villages captured in the last day.

Musketeer4

Russia and Iran will defend Assad to the Hilt. They have invested to much in Syria now to let the Turks render it all for nothing.
Its one thing the Turks fighting ISIS and Kurds since they are enemies of Assad. If Turkish forces engage and begin to push back the SAA all hell will break loose.

For instance, Russia could launch a salvo of stealthy Kh-101 missles at Turkish cities. Since NATO would not know for sure where the bombs originated, they would not have 100% confidence in which nation to strike back at.

I surely hope that Erdogan has enough sense not to goad the bear.

Musketeer4

Just seeing a report there on RT accusing the Turkish military of massacre of around 150 Kurdish civilians. Apparently they say in one incident that at least 50 or 60 were set on fire in the basement of a building which was then subsequently shelled and demolished down on top of them. Calls for Erdogan to be done for war crimes.A woman talking claims some troops of carrying out beheading and burnings.

Gatling

Musketeer4 wrote: »

For instance, Russia could launch a salvo of stealthy Kh-101 missles at Turkish cities. Since NATO would not know for sure where the bombs originated, they would not have 100% confidence in which nation to strike back at.

I surely hope that Erdogan has enough sense not to goad the bear.

Lol seriously did you just post that ,

KingBrian2

Musketeer4 wrote: »

Just seeing a report there on RT accusing the Turkish military of massacre of around 150 Kurdish civilians. Apparently they say in one incident that at least 50 or 60 were set on fire in the basement of a building which was then subsequently shelled and demolished down on top of them. Calls for Erdogan to be done for war crimes.A woman talking claims some troops of carrying out beheading and burnings.

If Turkey comes into confrontation with Syrian or Iranian troops in Syria it will be up to Russia to respond and we will be left with a NATO power stranded behind enemy lines. If America intervenes they will be seen as condoning Turkey's actions thus far. We could yet see fireworks fly.

Gatling

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If Turkey comes into confrontation with Syrian or Iranian troops in Syria it will be up to Russia to respond and we will be left with a NATO power stranded behind enemy lines. If America intervenes they will be seen as condoning Turkey's actions thus far. We could yet see fireworks fly.

The thing is Turkey's combined military is big enough and equipped to roll all the way to the Iranian border ,
Neither Russia or Iran have the man power in place to stop an over whelming force which will have its own air cover ,
The Iranian and Hezbollah forces have struggled against rebel forces now imagine a another force with hundreds of tanks an hour or two away ,
Then we have the unknown force of what would isreal do if asked by Turkey for assistance ,

riffmongous

Gatling wrote: »

The thing is Turkey's combined military is big enough and equipped to roll all the way to the Iranian border ,
Neither Russia or Iran have the man power in place to stop an over whelming force which will have its own air cover ,
The Iranian and Hezbollah forces have struggled against rebel forces now imagine a another force with hundreds of tanks an hour or two away ,
Then we have the unknown force of what would isreal do if asked by Turkey for assistance ,

And the Turks have had their own rebel struggles for many many years..

But before we get too carried away with this though, is it not likely the case that Turkey are involved in Syria with the backing of Russia? The two countries have patched things up in the last weeks, relations between the countries continue to normalise with bans being lifted every day and Erdogan was in Moscow a few weeks ago. Russia has also been noticeably silent on the Turkish invasion

Gatling

That's also a possibility as I said in a previous post Turkey are the only ones able to jump on the kurds ,
Russia wasn't going to be stupid enough to attack kurds with US forces embedded especially now that US air cover is free to defend it's forces on the ground ,
Russian strength is its airpower but when they suddenly have adversaries in the air who are more than capable of handling themselves ,

Alot of talk coming out of Turkey about taking Aleppo,but then what hand it back to Assad or say to Putin FU again and saying we're keep it ,

To many variables and too Many players to call it at the moment

KingBrian2

Gatling wrote: »

The thing is Turkey's combined military is big enough and equipped to roll all the way to the Iranian border ,
Neither Russia or Iran have the man power in place to stop an over whelming force which will have its own air cover ,
The Iranian and Hezbollah forces have struggled against rebel forces now imagine a another force with hundreds of tanks an hour or two away ,
Then we have the unknown force of what would isreal do if asked by Turkey for assistance ,

Turkey has already made friendship with Israel unlikely they will break that pact provided Israel don't start another bombing campaign in Gaza.

Turkey and Syria could end up patching up their relations so that leaves Israel isolated in the region and a possible attack on Tehran once again emerges.

BoJack Horseman

riffmongous wrote: »

is it not likely the case that Turkey are involved in Syria with the backing of Russia?

It's not likely, it is absolutely certain.
The idea of a contiguous Kurdish state, from Aleppo provience to the Iranian border was out of the question to all the nations there.

All this is with the consent of Damascus & Moscow.

KingBrian2

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It's not likely, it is absolutely certain.
The idea of a contiguous Kurdish state, from Aleppo provience to the Iranian border was out of the question to all the nations there.

All this is with the consent of Damascus & Moscow.

Syria has always been a safe place for Kurds. They could always turn to Damascus for havens when all the other powers looked the other way the same with the Palestinians.

Chose to see this as you see fit that Syria was opportunistic in offering havens to wanton terrorists in Turkey or genuine support for these groups, either way the Damascus gvt other Assad snr and Assad jr was a key PKK ally.

Musketeer4

An expeditionary force of Russian Naval Infantry equipped with light armour, BMPs etc are deploying to Aleppo as I type. Russia now officially has boots on the ground.

Gatling

Musketeer4 wrote: »

An expeditionary force of Russian Naval Infantry equipped with light armour, BMPs etc are deploying to Aleppo as I type. Russia now officially has boots on the ground.

Says who exactly,

Russia has had boots since last year

Seems Russia was quitely asked to leave iran after launching bombing raids on Aleppo last week

BoJack Horseman

Musketeer4 wrote: »

An expeditionary force of Russian Naval Infantry equipped with light armour, BMPs etc are deploying to Aleppo as I type. Russia now officially has boots on the ground.

Russian Marines have been in & around front lines for some time now.
Spetsnaz have been there operating as forward air controllers for the attack helicopters since day 1.