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Michael Street Development Granted

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ ongarboy


    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/waterford-city-shopping-development-gets-green-light-1.2985311

    More from today's Irish Times. Regarding the inspectors observation that there were lots of existing units vacant the n Waterford, that makes no difference if they are not fit for purpose for modern retailing. Retailers like Zara and H&M need about 20,000 square feet minimum and poky units in Georges Arcade etc will not do. I imagine the developers already have had discussions with anchor traders to custom build the units to order.

    In fairness to City Square, they are attempting to address their dated and tired looking SC by merging units to attract the bigger retailers too. Seeing inner cities rejuvenated is great news which is why I can't understand why local groups object to this new vibrancy and elimination of decades old derelict and ugly buildings!


  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭ azimuth17


    ongarboy wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/waterford-city-shopping-development-gets-green-light-1.2985311

    More from today's Irish Times. Regarding the inspectors observation that there were lots of existing units vacant the n Waterford, that makes no difference if they are not fit for purpose for modern retailing.

    There may be a misinterpretation here. From what BBM77 says the comment about "lots of vacant units in Waterford" came from the person who made the appeal and not the Bord Pleanala inspector. That is also my understanding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭ azimuth17


    For clarity from the inspector's report, it was the third party who made the comments mentioned.

    Grounds of Third Party Appeals
    6.1.1. Two separate third party appeals have been submitted by local residents. The main
    points made may be summarised as follows:
    • The site is unsuitable for development due to its location close to several
    protected structures including the city wall and tower. Waterford city has a poor
    track record of preserving its heritage.
    • The scale, bulk, height and mass of the development would dominate the area,
    adverse visual impacts.
    • The local community includes 6 schools. Concerns about increased traffic
    volumes as a result of the development, including HGV and delivery vehicles.
    Associated impacts on local amenities due to noise, dust and vibration.
    • The retail need for the development is questioned. International multiple stores
    would find other locations in Waterford if local retail spend and footfall warranted
    their arrival. Wages are lower in Waterford than in the rest of the country and unemployment is higher. There are several empty retail units in the nearby Railway Square development and in the City Square shopping centre. The Broad Street centre has been closed for several years and there are empty units at a centre in Patrick Street and the George Street shopping centre. There are two large unused shopping centres less than a mile away in the Ferrybank area.
    There are other locations close to Waterford city centre that would be more
    suitable for the proposed scheme, such as the SDZ at North Quays.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,378 ✭✭✭✭ StringerBell


    Local residents appears to me be more in line with the apple market traders rather someone from Carlow/Kilkenny

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    • The site is unsuitable for development due to its location close to several
    protected structures including the city wall and tower. Waterford city has a poor
    track record of preserving its heritage.

    http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/88437-waterford-s-viking-triangle-wins-the-great-place-award.html
    The Viking Triangle in Waterford has been named "Great Place" winner at the 2017 Urbanism Awards in London.

    The Waterford City spot beat off competition from Greenwich Market in London and Leicester Market.

    The awards aim to recognise the best, most enduring or most improved cities, towns, streets and places.

    They are voted on by leading architects, planners and developers in Ireland and the UK.

    The assessors noted that Viking Triangle is more than a traditional physical regeneration initiative and has enhanced the quality of life and competitiveness of local business.

    While it's true that one can always do better, I think the City has done pretty well in this regard, the walls and various structures are all still standing and shall remain so.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ Hoffmans


    http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/88437-waterford-s-viking-triangle-wins-the-great-place-award.html



    While it's true that one can always do better, I think the City has done pretty well in this regard, the walls and various structures are all still standing and shall remain so.
    Local business's in the viking triangle ??
    Do they mean the motor tax office, or the parking tickets desk..


  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭ azimuth17


    They probably mean The Munster Bar, Andy Jordan's, The Reg, Jade Palace,The Olive Tree, Gallweys Cafe, Emilianos, Mcleary's,Kite Design, etc etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭ danjo-xx


    I see that its finally got the go ahead subject to a couple of non material alterations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭ fricatus


    The Irish Times business section over the weekend referred to this development in a short piece about job creation around the country, and mentioned that 480 jobs would be created during construction.

    I know now that An Bord Pleanála has approved it, there are no further planning obstacles. However what has to happen next? I presume a developer needs to come up with the finance and then construction can start. How likely is funding for this though? Rightly or wrongly, any investor could point to vacant units about the place (plus the Ferrybank shopping centre) and simply on the basis of the numbers, decide that it's not a runner. Is there money out there now looking for a home in provincial Irish property?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭ JohnC.


    Aren't vacant units in the city centre really just small ones? Ones that major retailers missing from the city wouldn't be interested in. Like how it's taking a pretty big rejig of City Square to create a unit for H&M (if rumours are true) to move in.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭ fricatus


    JohnC. wrote: »
    Aren't vacant units in the city centre really just small ones? Ones that major retailers missing from the city wouldn't be interested in. Like how it's taking a pretty big rejig of City Square to create a unit for H&M (if rumours are true) to move in.

    You're right, but I'm looking at this from the standpoint of investors in places like London wondering whether to invest their money in York, Inverness, Cardiff, St Albans, etc., and who wouldn't be able to point to Waterford on a map.

    Surely when they're running the rule over the figures, they'd just be looking at a report saying that we've X sq ft of vacant space here for a population of 50,000 10 minutes drivetime and 250,000 45 minutes drivetime. Then they go "no, we'll put our money in St Albans because there are a million people within 45 minutes of the place and half the vacant space of that place in Southern Ireland, what was it called again?".

    That's the sort of thing I'm wondering about, since these guys only care about yield, and how likely they are to get their money back. I just have the feeling that it's not an attractive investment for the big money, despite the fact that we all know and understand the factors locally why it would more than likely be quite a success.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭ JohnC.


    Retailers won't be looking to choose one location across two countries. They'll surely be looking at as many locations they can get a reasonable profit out of as they can? It's not Amazon looking where to build a datacentre.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ Hoffmans


    This elephant won't get to the circus
    Sure we will have the big empty one in ferrybank when we grab the few acres from the Kilkenniers


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    fricatus wrote: »
    The Irish Times business section over the weekend referred to this development in a short piece about job creation around the country, and mentioned that 480 jobs would be created during construction.

    I know now that An Bord Pleanála has approved it, there are no further planning obstacles. However what has to happen next? I presume a developer needs to come up with the finance and then construction can start. How likely is funding for this though? Rightly or wrongly, any investor could point to vacant units about the place (plus the Ferrybank shopping centre) and simply on the basis of the numbers, decide that it's not a runner. Is there money out there now looking for a home in provincial Irish property?
    fricatus wrote: »
    You're right, but I'm looking at this from the standpoint of investors in places like London wondering whether to invest their money in York, Inverness, Cardiff, St Albans, etc., and who wouldn't be able to point to Waterford on a map.

    Surely when they're running the rule over the figures, they'd just be looking at a report saying that we've X sq ft of vacant space here for a population of 50,000 10 minutes drivetime and 250,000 45 minutes drivetime. Then they go "no, we'll put our money in St Albans because there are a million people within 45 minutes of the place and half the vacant space of that place in Southern Ireland, what was it called again?".

    That's the sort of thing I'm wondering about, since these guys only care about yield, and how likely they are to get their money back. I just have the feeling that it's not an attractive investment for the big money, despite the fact that we all know and understand the factors locally why it would more than likely be quite a success.

    Well this is just not the case. If it was then the New York based Marathon Asset Management company that bought city square and are spending millions on it right now would not be doing so. Also, for decades now the estate agents in the city have being saying that the chain stores want to open here but they just can’t find anywhere to open in. The fact that as soon as a unit of large size becomes available in the city it is taken shows this to be true.

    I really don’t think that the Ferrybank shopping centre will put anybody of. Anybody in the industry worth their salt would know that it was a ridiculous Celtic tiger project / rates grabbing exercise that should never have been built. Also, there is not actually that many vacant units in the city. And the ones that are it is because they are so small, the owners are hanging on to them hoping that their value will increase or they are awaiting redeveloped.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    Any word on Marks and Sparks? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    Any word on Marks and Sparks? :)

    Could be wrong but can’t see M&S coming. They are not going great in general according to reports so they are hardly going to open more stores.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ Deiseen


    Any word on Marks and Sparks? :)

    A guy from City Square (think he manages the centre) was on WLR, he said M and S are looking for really large outlets none of which we have in Waterford or will have, even with the new developments.

    Also, M and S is overrated beyond belief. People are finally realising this because they are in big trouble.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    Not shocked! :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,867 ✭✭✭ iseegirls


    Deiseen wrote: »
    A guy from City Square (think he manages the centre) was on WLR, he said M and S are looking for really large outlets none of which we have in Waterford or will have, even with the new developments.

    Their store in Clonmel is tiny. If they only opened up one with a supermarket, I'll be happy. The clothes aren't anything special.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭ Gardner


    does anyone have a link to the Traffic Management Plan / Study that was submitted with the planning application. 
    be interesting to read the plan in regards to construction phase and to when the development becomes operational.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    The roof is going up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ Deiseen


    The roof is going up.
    The roof is going up.
    Pic?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    No, just mentioned on the Waterford Today website. Maybe someone down there can take a snap for us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,378 ✭✭✭✭ StringerBell


    Few pics on fb of it

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭ mooseknunkle


    No, just mentioned on the Waterford Today website. Maybe someone down there can take a snap for us.

    They started that on Monday and its been closed to traffic all week,plenty of photos and videos on social media.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    The roof is going up.

    Great to see roof on Apple market going up, the paving done looks really well too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ Deiseen


    No, just mentioned on the Waterford Today website. Maybe someone down there can take a snap for us.

    They started that on Monday and its been closed to traffic all week,plenty of photos and videos on social media.

    What page? Nothing on Twitter and only the one video from a few days ago on Waterford Today


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,867 ✭✭✭ iseegirls


    Deiseen wrote: »
    What page? Nothing on Twitter and only the one video from a few days ago on Waterford Today

    Few pictures here: https://www.facebook.com/matthewiephotography/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭ erica74


    Does anyone know if the council are providing any photos of the progress as it moves along? Because you can't drive up there anymore, I hadn't even realised they paving had been done. It would be great to show off how they're progressing and keep people interested in what's going on and ultimately the end goal.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    erica74 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if the council are providing any photos of the progress as it moves along? Because you can't drive up there anymore, I hadn't even realised they paving had been done. It would be great to show off how they're progressing and keep people interested in what's going on and ultimately the end goal.

    You could head up there for look.


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