Ban on cigarette vending machines

Realt Dearg Sec

Estrellita wrote: »

In some more health conscious countries if you were seen with a cigarette you would be looked at as though you were ringing a lepers bell around town.
.

I've been to a lot of countries but I've never seen one where smokers are ostracised like in Ireland. Curious what these more health conscious countries are, that have found a way to be even more puritanical and self-righteous than here?

The Honey Monster

The Honey Monster wrote: »

Legalise all drugs or ban smoking...

Great idea, would create a whole new tax collection stream and save a fortune in the costs of anti-drugs law enforcement. Plus all the new jobs in the "legal" drugs industry.

Plus the added bonus of putting drug lords out of business as well as eliminating one of the main causes of crime!

Downside is of course a huge increase in unemployment when all the jobs created in the "war on drugs" are gone.

As for the vending machines leave them alone, they don't encourage smoking, just make it easier to get a "fix" late at night.

PS i don't smoke.

Pim Pictus

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I've been to a lot of countries but I've never seen one where smokers are ostracised like in Ireland. Curious what these more health conscious countries are, that have found a way to be even more puritanical and self-righteous than here?

Canada hates smokers. Can't smoke in beer gardens. Can't smoke anywhere near entrances to pubs at all.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, I have been reading it since you posted it... But the simple fact is that I'm not a burden on the state. I have never received any health related benefit from the state, and my smoking hasn't cost the state a penny (or cent).

Ancedotal evidence, which is not worth much.
Smokers are a burden on the state. There's plenty of examples of why in the link I provided. This isn't a thread about you by the way, so any further personal experiences are irrelevant.

As for taxes... you keep ignoring my point.

Disagreeing does not equal ignoring.

It's spent on everything. The tax is not held aside to simply pay the costs of other smokers. Care to prove otherwise?

I should have said the equivelant.

"“When taking out a Life Insurance policy, applicants can be asked whether they had a cigarette over the last 12 months, which can be tempting to lie about if you consider yourself a “social” smoker. There’s a presumption that the impact on your policy will be next to nothing. But a “white lie” like that has a significant impact on a claim payment,” Mr Faughnan said"

So... you're pointing out that non-smokers lie about their health insurance?

"Up to 40 per cent of smokers with life insurance do not admit to the habit when applying or renewing health insurance and their propensity to lie costs non-smokers money, figures from AA Life Insurance suggest"

Or that if you've smoked one cig in 12 months, they count you a smoker, hence their 40%...

As clearly stated, I explained that this was the closest thing I could find on how much more a smoker pays for health insurance. In other words, F all. So if you have something that says smokers pay much more, which makes up the difference, then please link it, I can't find anything relating to Ireland.

MY assessment lists me as a smoker and that there is an extra cost for such. Guess I should have just lied.

How much extra than a non smoker and does that difference make up the costs? I would imagine it doesn't, but will leave that to you to disprove.

The assumption that smokers are mostly unemployed or unable to pay their own medical bills.

Who made up that assumption?

Estrellita

CalamariFritti wrote: »

And you think because its beyond you gives you the right to deny everyone else?

Are trying to say that I shouldn't have a say or an opinion on the matter?

johnnyryan89

The flying mouse wrote: »

Last week Minister for Health Simon Harris confirmed that legislation is being drawn up to ban cigarette vending machines as part of the strategy to make Ireland tobacco free by 2025.

Tobacco free, does Mr Harris not know how much the price of a bit of weed cost. Gonna cost a fortune now if have no tobacco to roll a joint with

the_syco

5starpool wrote: »

If the government want Ireland to be smoke free (officially) by 2025, the only way to do that is to ban them.

Serious question though, if they want to stop it, why not just ban sales of tobacco? I'm not saying it'd be popular or sensible or that I'm in favour of it even, but why not just do it?

TTIP will allow the tobacco company sue the country. Philip Morris has already sued (and won) a case against a smaller country (Uruguay?) that tried to put larger health warnings on cigarette packets.

When it comes down to it, who has more money; Ireland, or the tobacco companies?

Marlee Gray Grapefruit

Marlee Gray Grapefruit wrote: »

Ancedotal evidence, which is not worth much.
Smokers are a burden on the state. There's plenty of examples of why in the link I provided. This isn't a thread about you by the way, so any further personal experiences are irrelevant.

Just not convenient.

Disagreeing does not equal ignoring.

Fair enough. I'm not trying to change your mind.

foggy_lad

While there is more and more regulation on tobacco products there is none on those vile E-cigarettes which may prove in the future to be just as dangerous or even more dangerous than tobacco!

The Nicotine is addictive despite what any supporters of these vile machines says and there are thousands of people loading these up with as much "juice" as they can handle and smoking their brains out!

These yokes are also blatantly aimed at the young adult and teenager market despite what we get told about voluntary advertising codes etc, this advertising code is not adopted by most of the stations on satellite tv.


E-cigarettes should be regulated and taxed as much as other cigarettes!

Anesthetize

foggy_lad wrote: »

E-cigarettes should be regulated and taxed as much as other cigarettes!

They are regulated as of May 20th 2016. The government have also recently decided against taxing them as much as cigarettes.

Calibos

foggy_lad wrote: »

While there is more and more regulation on tobacco products there is none on those vile E-cigarettes which may prove in the future to be just as dangerous or even more dangerous than tobacco!

The Nicotine is addictive despite what any supporters of these vile machines says and there are thousands of people loading these up with as much "juice" as they can handle and smoking their brains out!

These yokes are also blatantly aimed at the young adult and teenager market despite what we get told about voluntary advertising codes etc, this advertising code is not adopted by most of the stations on satellite tv.


E-cigarettes should be regulated and taxed as much as other cigarettes!

Thanks for that. I've now got blood dripping down my forehead from headbutting my desk in despair after reading that drivel.

Doctor Jimbob

foggy_lad wrote: »

While there is more and more regulation on tobacco products there is none on those vile E-cigarettes which may prove in the future to be just as dangerous or even more dangerous than tobacco!

The Nicotine is addictive despite what any supporters of these vile machines says and there are thousands of people loading these up with as much "juice" as they can handle and smoking their brains out!

These yokes are also blatantly aimed at the young adult and teenager market despite what we get told about voluntary advertising codes etc, this advertising code is not adopted by most of the stations on satellite tv.


E-cigarettes should be regulated and taxed as much as other cigarettes!

Cigarettes aren't taxed so highly purely because nicotine is addictive, they're taxed highly because tobacco is a very harmful substance and the money to treat people who get ill because of it has to come from somewhere. If addiction was the sole factor, we'd be paying a hell of a lot more for tea and coffee.

You're right in a way, e cigarettes may prove to be just as dangerous as cigarettes. Until that's proven there's no justification for taxing them as much.

As others have pointed out as well, they're already becoming more tightly regulated.

Tin Foil Hat

I'm all for it. Vending machines are a pain in the hole. Tokens and change and that one coin that gets rejected over and over again. Put them back behind the bar. Much less hassle.

Tin Foil Hat

I'm all for it. Vending machines are a pain in the hole. Tokens and change and that one coin that gets rejected over and over again. Put them back behind the bar. Much less hassle.

Timberrrrrrrr

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I've been to a lot of countries but I've never seen one where smokers are ostracised like in Ireland. Curious what these more health conscious countries are, that have found a way to be even more puritanical and self-righteous than here?

Really? Many countries have vending main band when it comes to cigarettes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_machine

Realt Dearg Sec

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Really? Many countries have vending main band when it comes to cigarettes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_machine

That wasn't my question, in just wondering how severely self righteous a country can become about smoking that it could be worse, culturally, in its attitude to smokers, than Ireland is. one example apparently is Canada, which I've never been to. I've heard California you'd be better off on the sex offenders register, but I've never been anywhere myself that is worse than Ireland for this attitude of condescending, fart sniffing self regard toward people who enjoy a smoke.

Irish Guitarist

What should be banned is people smoking outside, littering the place with their cigarette butts and blowing smoke in the faces of people who don't want to be breathing in their fumes.

Let people do what they want indoors. Leave it up to pub owners if they want people smoking in their establishment or not, rather than having hordes of people standing around throwing butts at passers by.

The government should either ban cigarettes properly or just shut the fuck up about it. They want to be seen to be doing something about smoking but don't want to get rid of the tax they collect on them.

Fleawuss

I'm beginning to think that the pro smoking opinion has more in common with the anti vaccine movement than anything else. And Trump. And Brexit. A sort of "I know you're right but **** ye anyway for being right."

Realt Dearg Sec

Fleawuss wrote: »

I'm beginning to think that the pro smoking opinion has more in common with the anti vaccine movement than anything else. And Trump. And Brexit. A sort of "I know you're right but **** ye anyway for being right."

Yeah, you're going to have to explain that one to me.

Smondie

With the price of Ryanair flights and the price of cigarettes abroad, let them take the machines if they want.


As someone once said, shop around

Wibbs

foggy_lad wrote: »

While there is more and more regulation on tobacco products there is none on those vile E-cigarettes which may prove in the future to be just as dangerous or even more dangerous than tobacco!

You don't seem to understand science do you? OK let's break out the crayons. Burnt tobacco contains many thousands of compounds, dozens of which have been implicated as disease causing agents, the liquid vapers inhale is a medical grade vapour that has shown no longterm ill effects in test subject over decades(though some do form an intolerance to one type). Nicotine is a poison yes, but pretty much everything is a poison depending on dose(yes including water). In the doses involved nicotine is not itself indicated as particularly injurious to health. It would be far less injurious than alcohol for example. Indeed nicotine has shown protective effects for certain conditions. EG smokers almost never get ulcerative colitis. Rates of adult ADHD are far lower in smokers. Nicotine has some interesting effects on memory retention and some types of Parkinsons. Where there can be danger is in the flavouring of some liquids and yes that needs regulation, but a person would want to be wilfully obtuse and/or painfully ignorant to begin to make the claim that vaping is within an asses roar of smoking cigarettes.

The Nicotine is addictive despite what any supporters of these vile machines says

Eh… no. Not a single person smoking or anti smoking is saying nicotine isn't addictive. Unless they're in the happy house for the terminally bewildered.

there are thousands of people loading these up with as much "juice" as they can handle and smoking their brains out!

Calm down Maude Flanders. They're probably taking Cake and smoking reefer while listening to jazz in dark alleyways. And getting felt up. By deviants. Moral corruption dontcha know.

E-cigarettes should be regulated and taxed as much as other cigarettes!

Brilliant. One of the best ways to give up smoking tobacco to come along and the ignorant and the neo Puritans want to regulate it out of existence. *Slow handclap*.

Calibos wrote: »

Thanks for that. I've now got blood dripping down my forehead from headbutting my desk in despair after reading that drivel.

I know. Drivel sums it up. Perfect subject for advertising mind you.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote:

I've been to a lot of countries but I've never seen one where smokers are ostracised like in Ireland. Curious what these more health conscious countries are, that have found a way to be even more puritanical and self-righteous than here?

I love this country and one reason is because generally we're extremely beige, middle of the road, not passionate to the point of daftness. However we are incredibly puritanical and with it. Irony given we were a Catholic country. Even there you can see the difference between the Latin version of Catholicism and the dour overcast maudlin Irish version.

We're also a very subservient culture when given half the chance. This manifests in our history and our susceptibility to being told what to do. We "kick the Brits out"(which took us long enough) only to invite in another foreign power to tell us what to do and to give us something to tug a forelock to. Now we're slightly adrift. A nation of teacher's pets but teacher has gone, so we look to Bonn, with a touch of Boston and a heap of "health and safety" for our authority fix. We positively love authority*.

Anti smoking and the like find ideal ground here. Being told what to do. Check. Health and safety. Check. Puritanical signalling. Check.



*Hell look at this very site and community. It's pretty much unique on the interwebs and for all the talk of over moderation it grew to be the biggest online Irish community on the back of it(and never translated to any other culture). Rebel Irish(™) my arse.

Brilliant. Wibbs, you're simply brilliant.

inforfun

foggy_lad wrote: »

E-cigarettes should be regulated and taxed as much as other cigarettes!

Yeah... No.

Smoked a pack of marlboro's a day for 3 decades.
Tried to quit cold turkey, with patches (health insurance pays for these in The Netherlands.. just an idea, i had to buy them here and stopped using them as they almost cost me as much as cigarettes...)

Then one day in december 2014, the price of a pack of cigs broke the €10 barrier so i picked up an e-cig.
Currently switched to 0 mg nicotine liquid after going down from 12 to 6.

Cigarettes smoked since dec 2014: 1.
Cigarettes i would have smoked if the liquid would be as expensive as cigarettes themselves: 12437

Grandeeod

foggy_lad wrote: »

While there is more and more regulation on tobacco products there is none on those vile E-cigarettes which may prove in the future to be just as dangerous or even more dangerous than tobacco!

The Nicotine is addictive despite what any supporters of these vile machines says and there are thousands of people loading these up with as much "juice" as they can handle and smoking their brains out!

These yokes are also blatantly aimed at the young adult and teenager market despite what we get told about voluntary advertising codes etc, this advertising code is not adopted by most of the stations on satellite tv.


E-cigarettes should be regulated and taxed as much as other cigarettes!

Seriously?? Would you like to come back for a visit and actually defend that post???

Your knowledge of E-Cigs appears to be based on vague rumour and rampant speculation. Please note the lack of the word "Fact" in that last sentence. But hey, keep on riding the "I heard it on the internet" train.:rolleyes:

idontlikefig

People are still trying to make smoking more inaccessible?

Meanwhile alcohol advertisements are constantly being shoved into my face?

*insert misanthropic quote*