Ban on cigarette vending machines

The flying mouse

Last week Minister for Health Simon Harris confirmed that legislation is being drawn up to ban cigarette vending machines as part of the strategy to make Ireland tobacco free by 2025.

There are 6,000 cigarette machines in pubs, nightclubs and hotels around the country.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0816/809566-cigarette-vending-machines/

Well is this a step to far and what about the proposal to have Ireland tobacco free By 2025.


What yis think AH ?

I don't know myself, I a non smoker, but it seems a bit harsh ? and sure will the huge black market in cigarette smuggling not just fill the void ?

The_Valeyard

Let people be adults. No harm for a vending machine for smokes in a venue that's 18+ serving beverages that can also cause health problems.

Ridiculous idea.

jimmy blevins

What about people like me who only smoke when pissed ?

GLaDOS

I'm a non-smoker and absolutely detest it, but this seems over-the-top.

People are going smoke, stuff like this just encourages the black market.

Alf Stewart.

I heard an interview today from your man in "tobacco land".

They're lifting €1.5m each and every week from Irish pubs and nightclubs, from 6000 vending machines.

Walsh said that his company sells €1.5 million worth of cigarettes every week and 140 million cigarettes every year.

I'm in the wrong bloody industry. :mad:

jayo26

Why don't they just line up the people that smoke and shoot them? That be cheaper surely?

freshpopcorn

I don't smoke and wouldn't really like smoking but I wouldn't agree with this!
Somebody will probably come up with some good idea to get around the ban!

end of the road

both these plans are nonsense and must be circumvented.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Let people be adults. No harm for a vending machine for smokes in a venue that's 18+ serving beverages that can also cause health problems.

Ridiculous idea.

By all means, and the same people can be adults when it comes to paying the hospital bill too

I'm not a big fan of nanny state policies, but this is a good move forward.

it's hilarious in a sad way. Suggest anything for smokers and it gets shot down... but ban vending machines for cigs and suddenly its a tragedy.

Yakult

So they will just sell them behind the bar then.. No biggy.

Marlee Gray Grapefruit

Marlee Gray Grapefruit wrote: »

By all means, and the same people can be adults when it comes to paying the hospital bill too

I'm not a big fan of nanny state policies, but this is a good move forward.

Care to prove that smokers don't pay their own hospital bills?

Considering all that extra tax that we pay until we get sick (and getting sick from smoking isn't a guarantee).

Jayop

More stupid nanny state bollocks.

This is why so many people in this country have no respect for the law, because they keep implementing stupid laws for no good reason other than to be seen to be doing something.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I don't smoke but treating those who do like children is ridiculous. Everyone knows the hazards of smoking so let people make their own choices.

Spanish Eyes

Cigs should now be classified as Class A drugs.

Why they are still legal to be sold is beyond me. It's not as if a massive Black Market doesn't exist out there now does it?

The lengths the Department of Health is going to, to stop smoking should be done in one fell swoop and ban them and make them illegal.

But no...... wait, there is excise money in there for us remember!!

Such feckkin double standards. And I don't smoke either, but honestly smokers are the pariahs now, along with sugar addicts.

The only two cohorts that can be criticized openly due to political correctness about everything else.

BAN THEM AND BE BRAVE.

Outlaw Pete

Why do vending machines only serve things that are bad for us anyway, like cigarettes, crap processed cappuccinos, crisps etc. Nothing useful or healthy.

For a start I'd like to see nightclubs have ones where you could buy blow up dolls and bicycle pumps. I'd pay top dollar some nights for an 'emergency woman'.

ScumLord

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

They're lifting €1.5m each and every week from Irish pubs and nightclubs, from 6000 vending machines.

Is that before or after tax? If it's before tax is taken out that's only a couple of dozen boxes.

jayo26 wrote: »

Why don't they just line up the people that smoke and shoot them? That be cheaper surely?

You're logic is flawed, bullets cost money, then you have to get the cleaner in afterwards. Costs mount up.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I don't smoke and wouldn't really like smoking but I wouldn't agree with this!
Somebody will probably come up with some good idea to get around the ban!

They have, the black market.

Jayop

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Cigs should now be classified as Class A drugs.

Why they are still legal to be sold is beyond me. It's not as if a massive Black Market doesn't exist out there now does it?

The lengths the Department of Health is going to, to stop smoking should be done in one fell swoop and ban them and make them illegal.

But no...... wait, there is excise money in there for us remember!!

Such feckkin double standards. And I don't smoke either, but honestly smokers are the pariahs now, along with sugar addicts.

The only two cohorts that can be criticized openly due to political correctness about everything else.

BAN THEM AND BE BRAVE.

There is a large black market and banning them would make it worse. Prohibition has never worked in any form. Alcohol was banned in the US and it let to the establishment of large scale criminal cartels. Drugs were banned world wide and it was the single worst world wide decision ever leading to millions of deaths and criminal organisations more powerful than most countries.

Jayop

ScumLord wrote: »

Is that before or after tax? If it's before tax is taken out that's only a couple of dozen boxes.

You're logic is flawed, bullets cost money, then you have to get the cleaner in afterwards. Costs mount up.

They have, the black market.

The health service would fall apart if you shot all the smokers. Not because of the loss in tax revenue but because most of the doctors would be dead.

Spanish Eyes

Jayop wrote: »

There is a large black market and banning them would make it worse. Prohibition has never worked in any form. Alcohol was banned in the US and it let to the establishment of large scale criminal cartels. Drugs were banned world wide and it was the single worst world wide decision ever leading to millions of deaths and criminal organisations more powerful than most countries.

I agree with you, and my previous post was more in anger than logic!

So the deal is that in a few years time NO ONE will be smoking in this country because of plain packaging, cigs behind barriers, and no vending machines.

Right.

I suppose in time those leaving school today may not smoke though. Too expensive. A joint or an E is probably much cheaper. But then again, they are banned and illegal aren't they? And they are good for you I suppose.

SEPT 23 1989

So the Irish State with its very deep solvent pockets is going to take on the world's tobacco companies in 2024?

The civil servants who dream up this bullsh1t should be held personally liable

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Deleted User wrote: »

Care to prove that smokers don't pay their own hospital bills?

Considering all that extra tax that we pay until we get sick (and getting sick from smoking isn't a guarantee).

Firstly, you're dillusional if you think an average Irish person pays a lot of tax. Secondly, that tax is spent on a lot of different areas, healthcare being just one.

Plenty of people on medical cards and private insurance that don't pay their own bills. There shouldn't be an issue increasing premiums for smokers or other groups at high risk due to their own decisions.

Have a read of this; http://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/An-assessment-of-the-economic-cost-of-smoking-in-Ireland.pdf

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

There is a large black market and banning them would make it worse.

Not really. I've been smoking 25 years. The high from smoking is tiny. It's the addiction that keeps smokers smoking and the allure of something forbidden that attracts new people. Banning smoking completely would work because the people willing to buy from dealers, would simply start with something else like grass instead.

The problem is that you don't understand smokers. You don't understand our addiction. So you compare it to other drugs. If cigs were banned completely, (and ban all these nicotine patch/gum crap) then most smokers would get past their cold turkey, because of the inconvenience of buying blackmarket (besides the risk of jail time, which would account for the rest of us stopping smoking)

Realt Dearg Sec

Marlee Gray Grapefruit wrote: »

Firstly, you're dillusional if you think an average Irish person pays a lot of tax.

He didn't say they did?

Jayop

Marlee Gray Grapefruit wrote: »

Firstly, you're dillusional if you think an average Irish person pays a lot of tax. Secondly, that tax is spent on a lot of different areas, healthcare being just one.

Plenty of people on medical cards and private insurance that don't pay their own bills. There shouldn't be an issue increasing premiums for smokers or other groups at high risk due to their own decisions.

Have a read of this; http://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/An-assessment-of-the-economic-cost-of-smoking-in-Ireland.pdf

Smokers do already pay more for health and life insurance??

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really. I've been smoking 25 years. The high from smoking is tiny. It's the addiction that keeps smokers smoking and the allure of something forbidden that attracts new people. Banning smoking completely would work because the people willing to buy from dealers, would simply start with something else like grass instead.

The problem is that you don't understand smokers. You don't understand our addiction. So you compare it to other drugs. If cigs were banned completely, (and ban all these nicotine patch/gum crap) then most smokers would get past their cold turkey, because of the inconvenience of buying blackmarket (besides the risk of jail time, which would account for the rest of us stopping smoking)

I'm a smoker of 20 years too so I'd say I have a fair enough insight into the mind of a smoker. :rolleyes:

enricoh

Pub owners will be doing there nut over this as they'll have to stock fags now. Very easy to tie up 10k in stock for cigarettes for peanuts in profit. Cue more break ins to pubs and more staff taking freebies.

Jayop

enricoh wrote: »

Pub owners will be doing there nut over this as they'll have to stock fags now. Very easy to tie up 10k in stock for cigarettes for peanuts in profit. Cue more break ins to pubs and more staff taking freebies.

Benson and Silk Cut smokers rejoice, they are the only ones who will be able to buy their favoured brand in the pub from now on.

briany

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Such feckkin double standards. And I don't smoke either, but honestly smokers are the pariahs now, along with sugar addicts.

Such a common thing to see at a bus stop these days - a mother inching her young child away from that dirty person standing near the bin and tucking into their second Aero of the day. :pac:

Robert_Paulson

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Let people be adults. No harm for a vending machine for smokes in a venue that's 18+ serving beverages that can also cause health problems.

Don't be silly now, everybody knows smoking is far more dangerous than drinking. I don't know whether this ban will achieve anything, but you can't just compare smoking to drinking and say "durr they both cause health problems" because medical science is never that simplistic, is it?

Furthermore, alcohol is mentally addictive, smoking is physically addictive, it's a lot easier to get addicted to cigarettes than it is alcohol.

Spanish Eyes

briany wrote: »

Such a common thing to see at a bus stop these days - a mother inching her young child away from that dirty person standing near the bin and tucking into their second Aero of the day. :pac:

Now now, we are not allowed to criticise children, no matter what they do, did you not get the memo?

Parents are a different matter though.;)

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Legalise all drugs or ban smoking...

Timberrrrrrrr

enricoh wrote: »

Pub owners will be doing there nut over this as they'll have to stock fags now. Very easy to tie up 10k in stock for cigarettes for peanuts in profit. Cue more break ins to pubs and more staff taking freebies.

Unless they ban the sales of them behind the bar too.

Go to a pub/club in the UK and run out of smokes, tough sh/t there nowhere to get any. Though they do still sell 10 packs which confused the hell out of me last time u bought some and was asked 10 or 20

How easy we forget

Marlee Gray Grapefruit

Marlee Gray Grapefruit wrote: »

Firstly, you're dillusional if you think an average Irish person pays a lot of tax.

I didn't. So, check your own delusions first.

Secondly, that tax is spent on a lot of different areas, healthcare being just one.

Yup. I understand that. The point being that I pay the same taxes you pay, and I also pay extra taxes on buying cigs (optional), health insurance, life assurance etc. All of which is sent into the economy. So, you already benefit from my smoking.

Now, wouldn't it be interesting to take all the tax made from smokers (not just the tax for sales of cigs), put it into a fund for a year, and then see how much treatment it covers for people with smoking related issues?

Plenty of people on medical cards and private insurance that don't pay their own bills. There shouldn't be an issue increasing premiums for smokers or other groups at high risk due to their own decisions.

Still not proof that "many" smokers don't pay their hospital bills. I have private health insurance since I first started working. My costs will be my own. Ahh, but then i guess in your eyes most people who work would never continue smoking?

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

I'm a smoker of 20 years too so I'd say I have a fair enough insight into the mind of a smoker. :rolleyes:

Strange... I would never have guessed.

endacl

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

I heard an interview today from your man in "tobacco land".

They're lifting €1.5m each and every week from Irish pubs and nightclubs, from 6000 vending machines.


I'm in the wrong bloody industry. :mad:

The vast majority of that goes to revenue in taxes and duties though. He'd probably make as much from lollipop vending machines...

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Why don't pubs replace them with fruit machines? That way we could at least have one of our 'five a day' whilst ramming down the pints.

Robert_Paulson

Robert_Paulson wrote: »

Furthermore, alcohol is mentally addictive, smoking is physically addictive, it's a lot easier to get addicted to cigarettes than it is alcohol.

I've never seen people get aggressive, and violent after 20 cigs, but I certainly have from 5+ pints. Smoking while driving also doesn't really do much to people. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong. Smoking is extremely harmful. As a smoker, I know that. I'm the one coughing up tar from my lungs, and getting occassional pains in my chest. And with the smoking ban in place, my smoking is not a threat to non-smokers... just to myself. Whereas heavy drinking is a threat to more than just the drinker.

Never quite understand the double standards once you remove the passive smoking element.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

Why don't pubs replace them with fruit machines? That way we could at least have one of our 'five a day' whilst ramming down the pints.

Too dangerous... how many drinkers know the heimlich maneuver?

the_syco

jayo26 wrote: »

Why don't they just line up the people that smoke and shoot them? That be cheaper surely?

You'd have no doctors left to treat people.

=-=

It'll encourage people to buy more cigarettes before the shops shut, will smoke them all, and then buy the dodgy chinese cigarettes when they run out of those.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

You'd have no doctors left to treat people.

=-=

It'll encourage people to buy more cigarettes before the shops shut, will smoke them all, and then buy the dodgy chinese cigarettes when they run out of those.

My favourite cigs are called "Monkey King", and they're produced by a company called "good cat" (Local cigs from Shaanxi). They could never be dodgy!

Anesthetize

Some pubs I frequent sell them from behind the bar anyways, so it wouldn't make much difference to me.

maudgonner

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Let people be adults. No harm for a vending machine for smokes in a venue that's 18+ serving beverages that can also cause health problems.

Ridiculous idea.

Since when are pubs 18+?

Not to mention hotels.

PARlance

As a smoker, I think they should probably be done away with (it's a lot of fuss over nothing though). A lot of pubs have turned to the food trade to survive and there are plenty of kids / teenagers in them these days. I've never seen it happen, but I suppose kids could getting smokes if they wanted. So on that front, take the machines out and let the publican sell them from behind the bar.

It would save me hassle too... I won't drunkingly tell the barman I want Major instead of Marlboro.

Realt Dearg Sec

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

Why don't pubs replace them with fruit machines? That way we could at least have one of our 'five a day' whilst ramming down the pints.

Just drink cider, it's a complete lunch.

DEFTLEFTHAND

My local got rid of the machine as the owner was tired of people looking for change for it all the time. They sell them at the counter now instead.

pajor

I was on holidays in Germany a few weeks back. I was amazed at the number of tiny villages we passed through that had no 'facilities' except for the prominently placed ciggy machine. And tobacco advertising is still allowed.

I've never really been a smoker, but this won't end well. Surely some sort of balance can be found in Ireland between outright banning them and one on every street corner.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't. So, check your own delusions first.
Yup. I understand that. The point being that I pay the same taxes you pay, and I also pay extra taxes on buying cigs (optional), health insurance, life assurance etc. All of which is sent into the economy. So, you already benefit from my smoking.

I doubt any two people in this thread pay the same taxes as one another. I don't know how I benefit from your smoking, if anything, your smoking is quite the opposite. Smokers are a burden on the state, it's all listed in the link I provided. Read up on it

Now, wouldn't it be interesting to take all the tax made from smokers (not just the tax for sales of cigs), put it into a fund for a year, and then see how much treatment it covers for people with smoking related issues?

Tax from cigarettes is spent on cigarette related illnesses.

Still not proof that "many" smokers don't pay their hospital bills. I have private health insurance since I first started working. My costs will be my own.

The closest thing I can find on this is here; http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/smoker-lies-causing-life-insurance-prices-to-rise-aa-says-1.2752661

Just checked VHI for a quote, doesn't even ask me if I am a smoker. Maybe that question comes later?

Ahh, but then i guess in your eyes most people who work would never continue smoking?

What point are you trying to make here? That doesn't make any sense at all.

DEFTLEFTHAND

pajor wrote: »

I was on holidays in Germany a few weeks back. I was amazed at the number of tiny villages we passed through that had no 'facilities' except for the prominently placed ciggy machine. And tobacco advertising is still allowed.

I've never really been a smoker, but this won't end well. Surely some sort of balance can be found in Ireland between outright banning them and one on every street corner.

I've noticed smoking is still very prominent on the continent in general. I wonder what percentage of the adult populations in the likes of France and Germany smoke. I believe it's around 30% in Ireland.

ScumLord

I'm a smoker and I still smoke out of spite. I'm going to have the most prolonged drawn out death this state has ever seen, it's going to cost a fortune.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've noticed smoking is still very prominent on the continent in general. I wonder what percentage of the adult populations in the likes of France and Germany smoke. I believe it's around 30% in Ireland.

I think Ireland is in the low 20's. It certainly feels like a lot more people in Germany smoke, but on paper it's only a couple of %.

Linky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita

Realt Dearg Sec

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm a smoker and I still smoke out of spite. I'm going to have the most prolonged drawn out death this state has ever seen, it's going to cost a fortune.

In that context the forum you mod takes on a bit of a different meaning!