Ban on cigarette vending machines

Timberrrrrrrr

enricoh wrote: »

Pub owners will be doing there nut over this as they'll have to stock fags now. Very easy to tie up 10k in stock for cigarettes for peanuts in profit. Cue more break ins to pubs and more staff taking freebies.

Unless they ban the sales of them behind the bar too.

Go to a pub/club in the UK and run out of smokes, tough sh/t there nowhere to get any. Though they do still sell 10 packs which confused the hell out of me last time u bought some and was asked 10 or 20

How easy we forget

Marlee Gray Grapefruit

Marlee Gray Grapefruit wrote: »

Firstly, you're dillusional if you think an average Irish person pays a lot of tax.

I didn't. So, check your own delusions first.

Secondly, that tax is spent on a lot of different areas, healthcare being just one.

Yup. I understand that. The point being that I pay the same taxes you pay, and I also pay extra taxes on buying cigs (optional), health insurance, life assurance etc. All of which is sent into the economy. So, you already benefit from my smoking.

Now, wouldn't it be interesting to take all the tax made from smokers (not just the tax for sales of cigs), put it into a fund for a year, and then see how much treatment it covers for people with smoking related issues?

Plenty of people on medical cards and private insurance that don't pay their own bills. There shouldn't be an issue increasing premiums for smokers or other groups at high risk due to their own decisions.

Still not proof that "many" smokers don't pay their hospital bills. I have private health insurance since I first started working. My costs will be my own. Ahh, but then i guess in your eyes most people who work would never continue smoking?

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

I'm a smoker of 20 years too so I'd say I have a fair enough insight into the mind of a smoker. :rolleyes:

Strange... I would never have guessed.

endacl

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

I heard an interview today from your man in "tobacco land".

They're lifting €1.5m each and every week from Irish pubs and nightclubs, from 6000 vending machines.


I'm in the wrong bloody industry. :mad:

The vast majority of that goes to revenue in taxes and duties though. He'd probably make as much from lollipop vending machines...

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Why don't pubs replace them with fruit machines? That way we could at least have one of our 'five a day' whilst ramming down the pints.

Robert_Paulson

Robert_Paulson wrote: »

Furthermore, alcohol is mentally addictive, smoking is physically addictive, it's a lot easier to get addicted to cigarettes than it is alcohol.

I've never seen people get aggressive, and violent after 20 cigs, but I certainly have from 5+ pints. Smoking while driving also doesn't really do much to people. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong. Smoking is extremely harmful. As a smoker, I know that. I'm the one coughing up tar from my lungs, and getting occassional pains in my chest. And with the smoking ban in place, my smoking is not a threat to non-smokers... just to myself. Whereas heavy drinking is a threat to more than just the drinker.

Never quite understand the double standards once you remove the passive smoking element.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

Why don't pubs replace them with fruit machines? That way we could at least have one of our 'five a day' whilst ramming down the pints.

Too dangerous... how many drinkers know the heimlich maneuver?

the_syco

jayo26 wrote: »

Why don't they just line up the people that smoke and shoot them? That be cheaper surely?

You'd have no doctors left to treat people.

=-=

It'll encourage people to buy more cigarettes before the shops shut, will smoke them all, and then buy the dodgy chinese cigarettes when they run out of those.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

You'd have no doctors left to treat people.

=-=

It'll encourage people to buy more cigarettes before the shops shut, will smoke them all, and then buy the dodgy chinese cigarettes when they run out of those.

My favourite cigs are called "Monkey King", and they're produced by a company called "good cat" (Local cigs from Shaanxi). They could never be dodgy!

Anesthetize

Some pubs I frequent sell them from behind the bar anyways, so it wouldn't make much difference to me.

maudgonner

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Let people be adults. No harm for a vending machine for smokes in a venue that's 18+ serving beverages that can also cause health problems.

Ridiculous idea.

Since when are pubs 18+?

Not to mention hotels.

PARlance

As a smoker, I think they should probably be done away with (it's a lot of fuss over nothing though). A lot of pubs have turned to the food trade to survive and there are plenty of kids / teenagers in them these days. I've never seen it happen, but I suppose kids could getting smokes if they wanted. So on that front, take the machines out and let the publican sell them from behind the bar.

It would save me hassle too... I won't drunkingly tell the barman I want Major instead of Marlboro.

Realt Dearg Sec

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

Why don't pubs replace them with fruit machines? That way we could at least have one of our 'five a day' whilst ramming down the pints.

Just drink cider, it's a complete lunch.

DEFTLEFTHAND

My local got rid of the machine as the owner was tired of people looking for change for it all the time. They sell them at the counter now instead.

pajor

I was on holidays in Germany a few weeks back. I was amazed at the number of tiny villages we passed through that had no 'facilities' except for the prominently placed ciggy machine. And tobacco advertising is still allowed.

I've never really been a smoker, but this won't end well. Surely some sort of balance can be found in Ireland between outright banning them and one on every street corner.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't. So, check your own delusions first.
Yup. I understand that. The point being that I pay the same taxes you pay, and I also pay extra taxes on buying cigs (optional), health insurance, life assurance etc. All of which is sent into the economy. So, you already benefit from my smoking.

I doubt any two people in this thread pay the same taxes as one another. I don't know how I benefit from your smoking, if anything, your smoking is quite the opposite. Smokers are a burden on the state, it's all listed in the link I provided. Read up on it

Now, wouldn't it be interesting to take all the tax made from smokers (not just the tax for sales of cigs), put it into a fund for a year, and then see how much treatment it covers for people with smoking related issues?

Tax from cigarettes is spent on cigarette related illnesses.

Still not proof that "many" smokers don't pay their hospital bills. I have private health insurance since I first started working. My costs will be my own.

The closest thing I can find on this is here; http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/smoker-lies-causing-life-insurance-prices-to-rise-aa-says-1.2752661

Just checked VHI for a quote, doesn't even ask me if I am a smoker. Maybe that question comes later?

Ahh, but then i guess in your eyes most people who work would never continue smoking?

What point are you trying to make here? That doesn't make any sense at all.

DEFTLEFTHAND

pajor wrote: »

I was on holidays in Germany a few weeks back. I was amazed at the number of tiny villages we passed through that had no 'facilities' except for the prominently placed ciggy machine. And tobacco advertising is still allowed.

I've never really been a smoker, but this won't end well. Surely some sort of balance can be found in Ireland between outright banning them and one on every street corner.

I've noticed smoking is still very prominent on the continent in general. I wonder what percentage of the adult populations in the likes of France and Germany smoke. I believe it's around 30% in Ireland.

ScumLord

I'm a smoker and I still smoke out of spite. I'm going to have the most prolonged drawn out death this state has ever seen, it's going to cost a fortune.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've noticed smoking is still very prominent on the continent in general. I wonder what percentage of the adult populations in the likes of France and Germany smoke. I believe it's around 30% in Ireland.

I think Ireland is in the low 20's. It certainly feels like a lot more people in Germany smoke, but on paper it's only a couple of %.

Linky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita

Realt Dearg Sec

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm a smoker and I still smoke out of spite. I'm going to have the most prolonged drawn out death this state has ever seen, it's going to cost a fortune.

In that context the forum you mod takes on a bit of a different meaning!

pajor

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've noticed smoking is still very prominent on the continent in general. I wonder what percentage of the adult populations in the likes of France and Germany smoke. I believe it's around 30% in Ireland.

Here in NL the number of smokers has dropped a lot over the past few years. I'd reckon it's still more people than in Ireland though. Is a lot cheaper than Ireland (€6-6.50 for a pack of 20). Same things have been introduced here. Public smoking ban, bringing age to 18, gross pics on packets. Some stores don't have them on show. Aldi are the only place though that still stock them by the till. I had never heard of Boston yellow cigarettes before living here. :pac:

Spanish Eyes

Was in London for a few days. Honest to god they have gone manic about no smoking.

Even in the open air lots of areas have HUMUNGOUS signs saying No Smoking in this area.

Consequently the little patch given to the smokers is chock a block with smokers all sitting together and blowing tons of smoke out into the no smoking areas. Daft. Better to spread it out.

Anyway. Just thought I'd mention that. It seemed very OTT to me as a non smoker.

YFlyer

I was in a supermarket in Amsterdam with a mate a number of years ago. We were at the till after getting what we need. There was tobacco been sold called 'Shag.'

We fell about the place laughing :pac:

Marlee Gray Grapefruit

Marlee Gray Grapefruit wrote: »

I doubt any two people in this thread pay the same taxes as one another. I don't know how I benefit from your smoking, if anything, your smoking is quite the opposite. Smokers are a burden on the state, it's all listed in the link I provided. Read up on it

Oh, I have been reading it since you posted it... But the simple fact is that I'm not a burden on the state. I have never received any health related benefit from the state, and my smoking hasn't cost the state a penny (or cent).

As for taxes... you keep ignoring my point.

Tax from cigarettes is spent on cigarette related illnesses.

It's spent on everything. The tax is not held aside to simply pay the costs of other smokers. Care to prove otherwise?

The closest thing I can find on this is here; http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/smoker-lies-causing-life-insurance-prices-to-rise-aa-says-1.2752661

"“When taking out a Life Insurance policy, applicants can be asked whether they had a cigarette over the last 12 months, which can be tempting to lie about if you consider yourself a “social” smoker. There’s a presumption that the impact on your policy will be next to nothing. But a “white lie” like that has a significant impact on a claim payment,” Mr Faughnan said"

So... you're pointing out that non-smokers lie about their health insurance?

"Up to 40 per cent of smokers with life insurance do not admit to the habit when applying or renewing health insurance and their propensity to lie costs non-smokers money, figures from AA Life Insurance suggest"

Or that if you've smoked one cig in 12 months, they count you a smoker, hence their 40%...

Just checked VHI for a quote, doesn't even ask me if I am a smoker. Maybe that question comes later?

MY assessment lists me as a smoker and that there is an extra cost for such. Guess I should have just lied.

What point are you trying to make here? That doesn't make any sense at all.

The assumption that smokers are mostly unemployed or unable to pay their own medical bills.

CalamariFritti

I'm getting' fed up with this kind of cr*p. I thought the big advantage of living in a developed western democracy was that it's supposedly 'free'. And yet some clown comes up with a new idea of bossing people around every other week. And the cynic in me thinks its really just because he thinks it'll get him more votes than it'll cost him. Politicians can really f*** *** tbh.

P.S. Wtf is this boards software on about. Was telling me I can't post images, URLs and links 'cos I'm a new user. Took me a moment to figure out it was cr*p with an 'at' sign. Apparently an 'at' sign is either an image or a URL or a link. You learn something new every day.

5starpool

If the government want Ireland to be smoke free (officially) by 2025, the only way to do that is to ban them.

Serious question though, if they want to stop it, why not just ban sales of tobacco? I'm not saying it'd be popular or sensible or that I'm in favour of it even, but why not just do it?

Estrellita

The flying mouse wrote: »

Last week Minister for Health Simon Harris confirmed that legislation is being drawn up to ban cigarette vending machines as part of the strategy to make Ireland tobacco free by 2025.

Obviously a bit ambitious, but I don't see why people here are so against it, or feel it's harsh. There has been enough awareness about the dangers of smoking for a long time now. Ireland is so behind the times in all aspects of health. In some more health conscious countries if you were seen with a cigarette you would be looked at as though you were ringing a lepers bell around town.

I can appreciate that people that started decades ago would find it very difficult, and certainly weren't aware of the dangers. But why anyone even starts now is just beyond me.

CalamariFritti

Estrellita wrote: »

Obviously a bit ambitious, but I don't see why people here are so against it, or feel it's harsh. There has been enough awareness about the dangers of smoking for a long time now. Ireland is so behind the times in all aspects of health. In some more health conscious countries if you were seen with a cigarette you would be looked at as though you were ringing a lepers bell around town.

I can appreciate that people that started decades ago would find it very difficult, and certainly weren't aware of the dangers. But why anyone even starts now is just beyond me.

And you think because its beyond you gives you the right to deny everyone else?

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

If the government want Ireland to be smoke free (officially) by 2025, the only way to do that is to ban them.

Serious question though, if they want to stop it, why not just ban sales of tobacco? I'm not saying it'd be popular or sensible or that I'm in favour of it even, but why not just do it?

Why? Money. We're worth too much in tax. It's certainly not about personal freedoms or such.

They've picked 2025 as a way of generating more income... while promising something to the anti-smokers group. Personally, I'd prefer if they just banned it completely (all tobacco products including the "aids" to stop smoking) within a month or two. Just remove the temptation.

Pim Pictus

5starpool wrote: »

If the government want Ireland to be smoke free (officially) by 2025, the only way to do that is to ban them.

Serious question though, if they want to stop it, why not just ban sales of tobacco? I'm not saying it'd be popular or sensible or that I'm in favour of it even, but why not just do it?

Tax on cigarettes is massive for the government. Tax on all the pharmaceutical products as a result of people trying to quit is massive. Big savings to be made on lots of people dying relatively young.

The pharmaceutical lobby is extremely powerful and they would crush any move to ban it outright. Big tobacco are no slouches either.