PC Piracy survey

Shiminay

If you're going to equate actively stealing copyrighted work to "picking up a free pen" then yea, the comparisons are about as accurate as each other. :rolleyes:

ancapailldorcha

Kirby wrote: »

Are you really equating breaking into somebody house to copyright infringement? Really?y

That's a bit ridiculous in fairness. I've been burgled and it was awful.

As I said above, it's a service issue. I used to pirate films and music all the time. Games not so much. Then Steam made it so easy to get 'em legally. And cheap too.

Maguined

Mickeroo wrote: »

Think of the front lawn as a torrent site and your neighbour as the uploader/originator of the content. In some cases it might not be your neighbour but someone who stole the tv that's putting it on the lawn of course. Either way, you're never the one breaking in.

Downloading requires active participation, it is not the same as a neighbour putting their tv on a front lawn. There is no legal obligation on a viewer only the person who is paying for the TV. If a pub is not paying for a comemrcial license and instead gets regular residential TV package to show to all their customers the pub owner gets in trouble and the customers have not done anything illegal by watching. This is not the same when you download cracked games, the consumer is responsible as they are actively contributing.

Kirby wrote: »

Are you really equating breaking into somebody house to copyright infringement? Really?y

Hey I was just refuting your free pen analogy. You equated downloading cracked games to someone offering you a free pen. What is the harm in breaking into someones home if there is no darmage done and no harm. It's a victimless crime then. :pac:

seamus

I would have pirated a little bit back in the day - mostly games that were 2 or 3 years old but places were still asking €50 for a copy. Or really old games that are unavailable any more.

Steam, GOG, Humble Bundle, etc though has done away with all that. Easier to pay a small fee to have them in the library than downloading dodgy content.

Don't have time these days to play the games I do have, never mind pirating old ones to play.

Kirby

Shiminay wrote: »

If you're going to equate actively stealing copyrighted work to "picking up a free pen" then yea, the comparisons are about as accurate as each other. :rolleyes:

You can keep calling it stealing but it isnt stealing. It's copyright infringement. Calling it stealing is more evocative but its also incorrect. So you can use hyperbole and be wrong, or use the accurate language and be right.

If I offered you a free game right now and you took it.....are you stealing? No. You arent. And you know this. You are illegally infringing on copyright. You havent stolen a damned thing.

By the way, the little PCMR guy in your sig is copyrighted. Did you steal that? Did you pay a license fee to use it? Of course not. So lets live in the land of reality please.

H3llR4iser

Maguined wrote: »

No one is putting their tv out their front door.

For real? That was a purely hypothetical, absurd example to explain how people do not have to "need" something in order to take it if it was offered for free.

Shiminay

Kirby wrote: »

You can keep calling it stealing but it isnt stealing. It's copyright infringement. Calling it stealing is more evocative but its also incorrect. So you can use hyperbole and be wrong, or use the accurate language and be right.

If I offered you a free game right now and you took it.....are you stealing? No. You arent. And you know this. You are illegally infringing on copyright. You havent stolen a damned thing.

By the way, the little PCMR guy in your sig is copyrighted. Did you steal that? Did you pay a license fee to use it? Of course not. So lets live in the land of reality please.

Going to a torrent site and getting a game that has been put there for people to steal/infringe (if you want to argue semantics of language go ahead, it amounts to the same thing) is not even remotely similar to a company saying "here, have a free sample." and if you're going to talk about accuracy then let's start there. If you think that using a service that facilitates infringement of copyright is even slightly the same thing as the copyright holder inviting you to take it then I strongly urge you to start looking at the land of reality as you put it.

Was the logo in my sig monetised? Is the original copyright holder losing out by my using it? Did the original copyright holder put it out there to be shared and used as he saw fit? Did he ever assert his claims over it? Have I ever tried to claim it as my own? Have I ever tried to profit off it? Copyrighted material can still be public domain, but that doesn't make it any less copyrighted. See the Happy Birthday song for the perfect example. Someone owns that, but they said we can sing it to each other at a party, but it cannot be used by businesses or to sell anything - such is the nature of it's copyright.

Maguined

H3llR4iser wrote: »

For real? That was a purely hypothetical, absurd example to explain how people do not have to "need" something in order to take it if it was offered for free.

It is this bit that I was refuting. Shiminay has already posted a better explanation than I could of someone offering you a free sample is not the same thing as torrenting cracked copies of games.

Kirby

Shiminay wrote: »

not even remotely similar to a company saying "here, have a free sample."

Free samples?? Let's not strawman here. Nobody said anything about free samples.

Here shiminay. Here's a free game. Not a demo or free sample. The full game. Click here yo download it.


What have YOU stolen? Not a damned thing. You can try and obfuscate and dance around it all day but it speaks for itself. Copyright infringement is not stealing.

And the answer to each of your questions posed is the exact same for a pirated halo5 as it is for a pirated pcmr gif.

Shiminay

Infringement: "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"

I am not infringing Yahtzee's copyright by using the PCMR logo in my sig. I *AM* infringing someone's copyright if I'm taking their product that they have created with the express intention of selling for profit, that has a price and is for sale, and using it without compensating them.

There can be no clearer way to say this.

Common sense AND the law state that this is how it works. You're the one talking about taking free things that have been offered for free - the pens in your earlier analogy, the game you're now offering me, Yahtzee's PCMR Logo - they have all been offered to me to use by the person who owns it or who has the legal rights to give it away.

At no stage has a publisher/creator who's work you are downloading via a torrent site (for example) offered this product for free. They have invited me to buy the product only and so acquiring it by any other means is theft. I am baffled as to how you think that something being posted on a torrents site illegally is even remotely the same thing as an invitation from the owner to take it. The fact that we have DRM on games that has to be broken by others and posted to these same sites only re enforces my point - it is being taken and used against the express wishes of the owner. That is theft.

Kirby

Shiminay wrote: »

used against the express wishes of the owner. That is theft.

No it's not. It's copyright infringement. The law is quite clear on this. For example, when you buy a game...you are buying a license to use their product. You do not own the product....merely the license to use it. By pirating the game, you are using the product without a license. That is not theft. It is copyright infringement.

Theft. "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"

I'm going to outline the process of how game piracy works because I think you have this image in your head of people breaking into servers and stealing files while furiously typing on a keyboard. Thats not how it actually happens.

A gamestop employee makes a mistake and sells a game before the street date. Or the employee takes it home before the street date and uploads it himself. Or gives it to a friend. Or a review copy sent out weeks early gets into the wrong hands. Or somebody just walks into a store and buys it/downloads it on release day.

Thats how it happens. So a person obtains a game and uploads it. Illegally. It is then cracked and copied. A link is then posted on a site and a million people download it. There is a dozen laws broken in that chain for sure but nobody downloading the game is stealing anything.

Shiminay

So no actual response to the points I raised then? Grand so

Kirby

Well I dealt with it. Your entire post is based on a fallacy so everything that stems from the fallacy is irrelevant.. I could quote line by line and counter each thing individually but what would be the point? You don't know the legal difference between theft and copyright infringement. There isnt much to say beyond this.

Shiminay

Again, semantics of a single word, none of which addresses the points I raised about whether or not something has been offered for free or not.

But you know what? If it makes you feel big and clever, then sure, I will use the word infringement (def: the action of breaking the terms of a law, agreement, etc.; violation.) instead of stealing (def: take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.). Feel free to substitute it above as you see fit.

Kirby

Feel big and clever? No need to get personal. You could just say "Yeah, I was wrong".

You can use whatever word you want. You arent using my word......it's what its actually called. It's not semantics. It's the law.

kowloon

With games at the price they are, I can buy more on Humble Bundle and in Steam sales than I'll ever get the time to play. Only very rarely will I buy something near release for full price.

Dave_The_Sheep

Piracy isn't A-OK. Most of us do it (not necessarily with games, but with TV, or music or films say) and we know we're getting something we should ordinarily pay for (one way or another) without paying for it. Should we? No. Do we? Yes. Why? Various reasons and justifications, mostly boiling down to "I want it and don't think I should/want to pay for it". Am I going to lose sleep over it? Nope. Doesn't justify it though.

I don't pirate games (unless they're old ones not available elsewhere anymore). I used to when I was a teenager. Now I don't, because I have money and there are quite a few places to get them legally and easily and affordably - and also because I care about video games and it's my hobby.
If I pirate TV shows and films and music, it's because I don't really care about them. They're just filler. They don't matter to me so I don't care.

That said, it's not theft. Theft (for me) implies someone else has lost something. Piracy is something different, if you make a copy the original is still there, you're not denying an items use for someone else. It's not even a loss of earnings (all the time - though in some cases it certainly could be).

Needs a different definition for a different course of action.

Robert ninja

Almost all laws regarding these issues in modern times are severely outdated.

As for other mediums like say music, radio has been replaced by pirating, youtube etc. People still find out what kind of directors, artists and genres appeal to them via pirating it. However, the cost of music versus how much music you listen to, it would be unrealistic for a person to buy them all. They're not enjoyed in the same context, capacity or frequency as games. I for one also don't use music services because they datatrack too hard for my taste and don't even benefit smaller artists that I might want to support.

In the end the result for me is the same. Buy seldom and support your favourite media from devs/publishers/directors who cater to you.

EoinHef

Well we got nearly 6 pages without a disgreement.....didnt think we would get that far to be honest. It was turning into more of a confession theread though!!

We should all say some hail mary's for are oul pirating sins!!

Rezident

EoinHef wrote: »

I dont think iver ever pirated a game,be it console,handheld or PC.

Im not on any moral high horse here either,i just never have,dont think theres a reason i havent,cant think of one anyway.

Same as. Different story with TV and music admittedly but I have never pirated a game because I genuinely want to support the gaming industry as it gives me so much joy and I think some of the developers are amazing and totally worth supporting.

Icyseanfitz

as many here i used to do it a fair bit when i was younger. but with steam sales, gog, humble bundle and key resellers etc. its become a lot less hassle to just buy the game.
I will say though i pirated no mans sky just to see how it would run on my setup what with all the mixed information. Turns out pretty well so il buy it when it gets to the 30-40 euro mark

Dair76

I've never pirated a game, although I may have downloaded torrents for other software back in the day.

Kiith

The only games i've pirated in the last few years are games that are not available on any online stores.

Back in college, I used to pirate all the time. I'd like to say that it was simply because i was a broke college student, but even if i had extra money, i probably wouldn't have bought them. Nowadays, Steam and other online distribution sites have made things so simple that i've no need to pirate anything.

Spotify is the perfect example of how a good service, at a low price, can stop piracy. I've never bought an album and used to pirate all my music. But i've not pirated any music in years now, since Spotify came along.

I've been trying to save money in all aspects of my life; pirating games seemed like a natural progression.

Shiminay

Kiith wrote: »

Spotify is the perfect example of how a good service, at a low price, can stop piracy. I've never bought an album and used to pirate all my music. But i've not pirated any music in years now, since Spotify came along.

And yet some (not all) artists say that you're probably as well off pirating rather than using Spotify cause they pay them next to nothing But if you actually want to support a band, buy a t-shirt off them at a gig, that's the most direct way of putting money in their pocket

Taylor365

I pirate small games to give them ago.

I then buy the ones that i like. (FTL, Kingdom, Terraria, Sunless Sea, etc.)

I don't bother with most larger titles at all.

Skerries

results are in and...

ancapailldorcha

Skerries wrote: »

results are in and...

Could have been a lot worse.

Skerries

not bad considering they are being skewed higher from poorer countries

ShadowHearth

Kind of makes sense.

As I said before, I was born in Lithuania and Lithuania was even mentioned as having high rate of piracy. We all had to if we wanted to play. Was it a right thing to do? No. I live in Ireland for the last 11 years and i don't pirate. I don't make big money, but it's definitely affordable.
No surprise seeing pirated games being strong in poor countries. Some developers really out of touch when it comes to pricing. I haven't been in Lithuania 11 years so I don't know how prices are there now, but you know what was situation 11 years ago as I said in previous post. That's the reason why pc gaming is so popular and console gaming is so low in lithuania.

Now I won't try to justify myself as ex pirate, but devs should look at this: I pirated for years as I couldn't not afford it, but gaming was always my most loved hobby even now that I am 30. When I was able at 19 to pay for my games, well, I did pay for them! Now all of these developers made thousands from me.
So in a nut shell I don't look down on young pirates or low income ones. I was like this before. If i would go by rule some people have: if you can't afford, don't play! Piracy is stealing. Then I would never get a passion for games and would not be a cash cow to all these developers.

I guess just my 2 cent. Take it for what's it's worth.