PC Piracy survey

ShooterSF

Like most I used to pirate a lot and if I did buy a game I still got the cd crack- ain't nobody got time... I still do retro games, mostly console and arcade. But with PC now I have more games than I ever will play and will rarely buy new. Likewise Spotify has practically ended my music piracy days. Movies and TV shows I still do. I pay for netflix but that doesn't provide as a good a service as piracy so...

Robert ninja

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Whenever I resort to the piratebay it's always nice to see GoG as I'll probably not need a crack/

You'll not need one. But if you did, would it really stop you? For people who frequently pirate, it never seemed to.

Canis Lupus wrote: »

For me personally it's the grey market that stops me pirating as a lot of games are more online focused nowadays so I need to make a purchase to use them.

So you pirate DRM-free and fund heavy DRM and online-focused games that are online for the sake of being more DRM. The exact opposite of how I support things. :pac:

I think it's pretty unfair to say GOG increase piracy, too. For one they're not the only service that provides DRM-free copies and secondly some of their bigger titles still sell pretty well on their own platform and on steam even though there's apparently a torrent. I honestly don't see someone having to move crackedlauncher.exe over to another folder really being enough to make a person say "Yeah I'd rather pay 59.99 than copy and paste.

http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

Canis Lupus

Robert ninja wrote: »

You'll not need one. But if you did, would it really stop you? For people who frequently pirate, it never seemed to.



So you pirate DRM-free and fund heavy DRM and online-focused games that are online for the sake of being more DRM. The exact opposite of how I support things. :pac:

I think it's pretty unfair to say GOG increase piracy, too. For one they're not the only service that provides DRM-free copies and secondly some of their bigger titles still sell pretty well on their own platform and on steam even though there's apparently a torrent. I honestly don't see someone having to move crackedlauncher.exe over to another folder really being enough to make a person say "Yeah I'd rather pay 59.99 than copy and paste.

http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

Cracks usually only work with a specific version. It can be a right pain in the hoop if you need to install a patch and then dig around for a new crack.

Robert ninja

Patches are another thing I dislike about modern DRM. There's no way to decline an update. GOG seem to be making some progress to even rollback, although on their galaxy platform which I'm not so hot for but at least it's an attempt.

Although you're right. The amount of crap I had to go through to get Max Payne 3 cracked is what convinced me to not buy it and overall step away from Rockstar who were another company who drank the DRM coolaid. I just wanted to see if the controls were as tight as the previous games. Game had too many annoying gameplay-interrupting cutscenes in the end anyway.

Canis Lupus

Robert ninja wrote: »

Patches are another thing I dislike about modern DRM. There's no way to decline an update. GOG seem to be making some progress to even rollback, although on their galaxy platform which I'm not so hot for but at least it's an attempt.

Although you're right. The amount of crap I had to go through to get Max Payne 3 cracked is what convinced me to not buy it and overall step away from Rockstar who were another company who drank the DRM coolaid. I just wanted to see if the controls were as tight as the previous games. Game had too many annoying gameplay-interrupting cutscenes in the end anyway.

I bought that one and Rockstars download client craps out if your internet drops below a certain point. Some 55gb with a client that crapped out a million times and rolled back a gig or so everytime and that's what I got for buying the f*cking game.

ShadowHearth

Damn, back in my country you would actually pay for pirated games. They were not cheap too! In Lithuania one legitimate copy of a game costed as one months wages!
I still had legitimate copies of Diablo 2 + lod, warcraft 3 + tft, my most played games ever! Maybe that's a reason I am so in love with blizzard. Those were a bit cheaper, maybe 2 weeks wages each. So yeah, I pirated a lot, but it was the only option. In capital city there was only one place that sold a few legitimate pc games and as I said - crazy money.
As for nes, Sega and ps1. I never sow a legitimate copy. First time I sow it was in Ireland in one of those cash for gold places.

Since I moved to Ireland its different. I just bought normal games in shops. Ffs, you had actual shop that sell video games. Was mind blowing! Only damn video games!

I haven't pirated for 10 years. With games being heavy on multiplayer, updates in content, early access etc it's a pain in a hole to pirate. Like anyone else I love steam too.
I do buy most of my games on sales or cdkeys.com. Very very rarely buy full price releases anymore.

K.O.Kiki

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Doubt it except for sales time. GoG probably help piracy because they're DRM free. Whenever I resort to the piratebay it's always nice to see GoG as I'll probably not need a crack.

For me personally it's the grey market that stops me pirating as a lot of games are more online focused nowadays so I need to make a purchase to use them.

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Oh wait until Kiki sees that Canis :pac: You'll send him into overdrive

Devs would rather you pirate their game than buy from grey-market sellers.

As has been discussed in the other thread.

chrislad

I used to pirate, but I generally don't anymore. The only time I might would be to test if a game runs, as my card isn't the highest spec, and often times those minimum specs are blatantly false, and in some cases, change before release. I got burned with Just Cause 3 this year. I met most recommended specs, and was well over minimum, but it was a laggy mess.

That said, last game I pirated for this reason was, I think, Assassins Creed IV, so that's a good while back.

H3llR4iser

Back in the day, everything was pirated - starting from the 1980s and 1990s in Italy, where no clear copyright law existed for software, you could easily find pirate C64/C128 cassettes sold by newsagents in broad daylight as legitimate publications; There were fully registered companies providing these products, putting them out for sale with printed covers and even booklets! They ranged from the equivalent of today 1.50 to 5 Euro, and you'd find between 5 and 30 games on them.

One of the big issues was that it was next to impossible to find the original stuff and this continued well into the early 2000s until the various Gamespot & C. type stores started popping up; Before that, the only outlet for games were the big "electronics" centres (in the style of Harvey Norman) and it was normal that you went to one on a specific game's release day and not only they didn't have it - they didn't even know what it was and had no way of ordering it.

Throughout the late '90s and early '2000s therefore, I like more or less everyone else down there kept pirating - on the PC, but also on the consoles; Buying a PS2 or an first gen Xbox implicitly meant having it modchipped as well. The games were nearly always available, pirated, on the release day (or leaked before), while the shops selling legit copies lagged months behind - when they actually bothered at all.

Today I tend to get most stuff through Steam whenever there's a promotion or a discounted price. I know many people love to hate on Steam and similar services, but they make for a mostly hassle-free experience. Whatever I have is kept up to date, and that's it.

Digital distribution on the PC as well as the major consoles did bring game pricing down (it's not rare to see new titles in the 30-40 Euro region), although there are signs of a new upwards trend - Yep, "No Man's Sky" pricing is way too optimistic. I can understand the strategy - the game has been hyped into Kingdom Come (a double edged sword that will generate a lot of "haters" who made their own game up in their heads and will be p1ss3d that the real deal looks/feels different) and there will be people buying it at that frankly insane price; Then it'll go down to 30 or 40 Euro in 30-60 days time and experience a sales resurgence.

Finally, a couple of things - first, I am still of the idea that demos would help sales; Second, the major digital distribution outlets (Steam, Xbox Live, PSN, Google Store) need to put some SERIOUS filtering to what they sell - it's becoming increasingly common to find absolute fecal matter from "indie" developers for sale; I'm talking about stuff that would really not even be worth the hard drive space if it came with a free can of Pepsi...

cruizer101

I used to pirate a fair bit but I think its nearly 3 years since I've downloaded a pirate game, as others have said prices are that cheap these days also with the amount of online multiplayer I think it is harder.

That said I would potentially pirate a game to see how it well it works and maybe play a level or two, and I'd say many others are the same. If publishers created demos it would remover the need for this and I think reduce pirating. Years ago demos and shareware were very common where as these days are quite rare such that I was quite surprised when I saw a game on steam recently that had a proper demo.

H3llR4iser

cruizer101 wrote: »

I used to pirate a fair bit but I think its nearly 3 years since I've downloaded a pirate game, as others have said prices are that cheap these days also with the amount of online multiplayer I think it is harder.

That said I would potentially pirate a game to see how it well it works and maybe play a level or two, and I'd say many others are the same. If publishers created demos it would remover the need for this and I think reduce pirating. Years ago demos and shareware were very common where as these days are quite rare such that I was quite surprised when I saw a game on steam recently that had a proper demo.

Performance gauging is indeed one of the most important parts of a demo.

Now, something that needs to be said - while we often get games that are poorly optimized (I don't think the slowdown issues on XCOM 2, for example, have been fully resolved yet!), it is also true that, unfortunately, the PC audience is way less savvy nowadays than it was say 20 or even just 10 years ago. You get a lot of people, I would say the majority, who will try to run modern games on some bottom-of-the-barrel laptop with shared graphics memory and then complain it is "laggy".

Korvanica

Pirate some games to test performance on my machine.

As others have said games are usually so cheap these days theres no point.

ancapailldorcha

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Performance gauging is indeed one of the most important parts of a demo.

Now, something that needs to be said - while we often get games that are poorly optimized (I don't think the slowdown issues on XCOM 2, for example, have been fully resolved yet!), it is also true that, unfortunately, the PC audience is way less savvy nowadays than it was say 20 or even just 10 years ago. You get a lot of people, I would say the majority, who will try to run modern games on some bottom-of-the-barrel laptop with shared graphics memory and then complain it is "laggy".

Oi! My little laptop has performed admirably with games like Mass Effect 3 and the pre-Knight Arkham games. Rome total war lags like feck for some reason but ME3 on 60fps is grand.

K.O.Kiki

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Oi! My little laptop has performed admirably with games like Mass Effect 3 and the pre-Knight Arkham games. Rome total war lags like feck for some reason but ME3 on 60fps is grand.

From reading around, most strategy games are CPU-bound.

And mobile chips are the pits.

ancapailldorcha

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

From reading around, most strategy games are CPU-bound.

And mobile chips are the pits.

I've done some reading and it looks like the engine is only built for single core machines. What really f*cks me off is that I can run Medieval 2 on a solid 30fps with its more detailed unit animations.

CastorTroy

I've pirated but wouldn't really do it any more except maybe to see if a game would run before buying. I know there are steam refunds now so can go that route.
But these days, getting games so cheap is easier, backlog is large so games a cheap by the time I get to buy them and then the number of updates made to the games with patches, etc makes it more convenient to buy legit.

Kirby

Rarely. I tend to buy all my games. I have the capability to pirate virtually everything from consoles to pc but I dont. The thinking behind it being that these guys are creating games I want to play and by buying them I'm encouraging them to create more. It's mostly self interest when you look at it that way.

But I'd be lying if I claimed I've never done it. I do pirate games occasionally if I have no intention of buying them. It's a victimless crime at that stage. They werent getting my money anyway, so nobody loses anything. Arguments to the contrary fall down to logical scrutiny so why not? Free stuff is appealing even if you dont want it.

Shiminay

Kirby wrote: »

It's a victimless crime at that stage. They werent getting my money anyway, so nobody loses anything.

That's simply not true for a lot of games, anything with an online service has ongoing costs that can only be recouped by shifting a fkton of product over the course of the game's lifetime (or trying to charge a subscription which simply won't cut it anymore). Pirating a game of this nature is 100% not a victimless anything.

.G.

Used to pirate everything but thanks to Steam and the rest of them I rarely bother now. I still will if I'm not sure about a game and I want to demo it but if I like it I'll buy it.

Skerries

The only game I have pirated in the last several years was a game I wanted to play and couldn't find a legal way to purchase without paying silly money for 2nd hand which doesn't help the developers anyway

Kirby

Shiminay wrote: »

That's simply not true for a lot of games, anything with an online service has ongoing costs that can only be recouped by shifting a fkton of product over the course of the game's lifetime (or trying to charge a subscription which simply won't cut it anymore). Pirating a game of this nature is 100% not a victimless anything.

You are skipping a few steps on the logic train there. Talking about online services has nothing to do with anything and is completely irrelevant. Pirated games dont connect to online servers.

If I pirate a game I had no intention of paying.....i havent cost the publisher a single cent. Nobody lost any money. Now, nobody gained anything....but nobody lost anything. Hence, Victimless crime. A crime yes. But also victimless.

Piracy becomes a problem when people who would otherwise purchase your product, pirate it. I do not fall into that bracket. If i downloaded something, they never had a chance at my money to begin with.

Maguined

Kirby wrote: »

You are skipping a few steps on the logic train there. Talking about online services has nothing to do with anything and is completely irrelevant. Pirated games dont connect to online servers.

If I pirate a game I had no intention of paying.....i havent cost the publisher a single cent. Nobody lost any money. Now, nobody gained anything....but nobody lost anything. Hence, Victimless crime. A crime yes. But also victimless.

Piracy becomes a problem when people who would otherwise purchase your product, pirate it. I do not fall into that bracket. If i downloaded something, they never had a chance at my money to begin with.

That sounds like a whole bunch of excuses really to justify yourself. You only pirate games you would never buy? If you enjoy playing a game there is the chacne you would pay for it, maybe a sale occurs and the price is low but to blankly say you will play and enjoy games and have zero chance of paying for it is a stretch I think.

super_furry

The thing for me is ease of use, convince and price. It's easier and much, much handier to buy a game than to pirate it and with PC, if you wait a while, game prices plumit anyway. I don't think I've pirates a PC game in at least a decade just because now it's easier not to.

That said I have a folder of emulators and ROMs that's over 60gb now. Not sure if consider that piracy though, I don't think anyone is losing money off me have a full 32x Romset.

Kirby

Maguined wrote: »

That sounds like a whole bunch of excuses really to justify yourself. You only pirate games you would never buy? If you enjoy playing a game there is the chacne you would pay for it, maybe a sale occurs and the price is low but to blankly say you will play and enjoy games and have zero chance of paying for it is a stretch I think.

I dont need to justify anything to anyone. The thread is for polling people. It isnt a venue to pontificate and lecture and look down on people for their choices.

And kindly don't project. "If you enjoy playing a game there is a chance you will pay for it..." Speak for yourself please. I know what I'm willing to pay for and what I am not. If I'm downloading it, i wouldnt have bought it. It's that simple. Its not a complex sentence so I'm a bit baffled why its causing a problem.

Maybe I should use an analogy. That sometimes helps. A man stands in a doorway to your office offering free pens. You say "ooh. Free pen!" and you take one. Now, you didnt ask for that pen. But it was there and it was free so you took it. Will you use it? Maybe, maybe not. But it was offered so you took it.

Now....if that man was not there does that mean you would have gone out that morning to the nearest shop and bought a pen? No. Because you had no desire for a pen. You took it because it was there. If it wasnt there, you wouldnt suddenly go buy one. Hence no lost sale. The pen company is not out a sale.

The actual harm in piracy comes from a company full of people who want pens....and this man gives them all away for free. Thats lost revenue.

Nobody is saying piracy isnt harmful. Nobody intelligent anyway. What I was saying, is that the view that publishers and some people take that every pirated copy is a lost sale.....is absolute nonsense. I've never pirated a single thing that I would have paid for. If piracy was eradicated tomorrow, some people would be screwed because they pirate everything. I, wouldnt lose any sleep. I would continue on as I had done and buy the stuff i want, and ignore the stuff I dont.

Maguined

Kirby wrote: »

I dont need to justify anything to anyone. The thread is for polling people. It isnt a venue to pontificate and lecture and look down on people for their choices.

The thread was started to discuss a poll ran by pcgamer. It is a discussion forum so what is wrong with me discussing your views offered?

Kirby wrote: »

And kindly don't project. "If you enjoy playing a game there is a chance you will pay for it..." Speak for yourself please. I know what I'm willing to pay for and what I am not. If I'm downloading it, i wouldnt have bought it. It's that simple. Its not a complex sentence so I'm a bit baffled why its causing a problem.

Maybe I should use an analogy. That sometimes helps. A man stands in a doorway to your office offering free pens. You say "ooh. Free pen!" and you take one. Now, you didnt ask for that pen. But it was there and it was free so you took it. Will you use it? Maybe, maybe not. But it was offered so you took it.

Now....if that man was not there does that mean you would have gone out that morning to the nearest shop and bought a pen? No. Because you had no desire for a pen. You took it because it was there. If it wasnt there, you wouldnt suddenly go buy one. Hence no lost sale. The pen company is not out a sale.

The actual harm in piracy comes from a company full of people who want pens....and this man gives them all away for free. Thats lost revenue.

Nobody is saying piracy isnt harmful. Nobody intelligent anyway. What I was saying, is that the view that publishers and some people take that every pirated copy is a lost sale.....is absolute nonsense. I've never pirated a single thing that I would have paid for. If piracy was eradicated tomorrow, some people would be screwed because they pirate everything. I, wouldnt lose any sleep. I would continue on as I had done and buy the stuff i want, and ignore the stuff I dont.

I don't believe your analogy is correct because there is a difference between servicing a need and servicing entertainment. If I need a pen I can go out and buy one, if someone offers a free pen you get a surplus pen you might use in the future but the distinction is it being offered. Entertainment is not a need it is a choice of spending free time. No one offered a free game, that is downloading a demo. Your analogy would be closer to you breaking into someones home and hiding behind their couch so you can watch their Sky Movies as it is film you want to see but are unwilling to pay money to see and since it was already paid for by whomevers house it is then you consider it okay.

H3llR4iser

Maguined wrote: »

I don't believe your analogy is correct because there is a difference between servicing a need and servicing entertainment. If I need a pen I can go out and buy one, if someone offers a free pen you get a surplus pen you might use in the future but the distinction is it being offered. Entertainment is not a need it is a choice of spending free time. No one offered a free game, that is downloading a demo. Your analogy would be closer to you breaking into someones home and hiding behind their couch so you can watch their Sky Movies as it is film you want to see but are unwilling to pay money to see and since it was already paid for by whomevers house it is then you consider it okay.

Not even remotely; think about it like this: somebody puts his/her TV outside their front door and shows a movie on Sky, you see and decide to watch, even if you wouldn't have been wanting to watch that one specific movie. The fact you're watching has no influence whatsoever on Sky's profit.

There WILL be the one who wanted to watch that specific movie and would have bought it - that's where the concept of piracy becomes a problem, but the point stands - it's not always the case.

Back in the heyday of pirate game CDs/DVDs sold withe the formula of "3 for 10 Euro" near the University I attended in Italy and passing discs to copy amongst coursemates, I would routinely come home with games I hadn't even heard about before - just because either one mate happened to have it and I burned a copy on the fly.

Kirby

Maguined wrote: »

Your analogy would be closer to you breaking into someones home and hiding behind their couch so you can watch their Sky Movies as it is film you want to see but are unwilling to pay money to see and since it was already paid for by whomevers house it is then you consider it okay.

No. That anlogy doesnt work. At all. In fact it's so off base I'm starting to think you are just looking for a rise. There are several inaccuracies in that sentence alone.

"breaking into someones home".
Firstly, pirating a game isnt breaking into anything. I amnt hacking EA or Activisions servers. Somebody who has already purchased the game or been given it by the publisher, has cracked it and uploaded it onto a server. Which I am downloading it from. That in no way equates to breaking into somebody's house.

Secondly you claim its a "movie I want to see". I've repeatedly explained to you that its not something I want to see. Im seeing it because its free. I dont care either way. I'm taking the pen/watching the movie/downloading the game because its free. If I "want" it....i pay for it. As my library of games would attest to.I'm availing of something being offered to me for free.

Taking your version with Sky Movies analogy to its logical fruition, a more accurate analogy would be like my neighbor offering me free sky by sharing his box with me. Am I getting it for free illegally? Yes. Is it costing Sky any money? No, because I wouldnt pay for it if the neighbor moved away.

On a side note, I find your choice of using Sky a little funny as I not only have sky movies, but also pay for the sports package even though I have the technical knowledge to get it all for free. Funny that.

Maguined

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Not even remotely; think about it like this: somebody puts his/her TV outside their front door and shows a movie on Sky, you see and decide to watch, even if you wouldn't have been wanting to watch that one specific movie. The fact you're watching has no influence whatsoever on Sky's profit.

There WILL be the one who wanted to watch that specific movie and would have bought, and that's where the concept of piracy becomes a problem, but the point stands - it's not always the case.

Back in the heyday of pirate game CDs/DVDs sold withe the formula of "3 for 10 Euro" near the University I attended in Italy and passing discs to copy amongst coursemates, I would routinely come home with games I hadn't even heard about before - just because either one mate happened to have it and I burned a copy on the fly.

No one is putting their tv out their front door. You are not being invited to watch, you don't accidentally pirate a game. It is a concious choice the same as breaking into someones home and watching their paid for TV channels but as long as you do no damage while breaking into their home then no harm is done.

Mickeroo

Maguined wrote: »

No one is putting their tv out their front door. You are not being invited to watch, you don't accidentally pirate a game. It is a concious choice the same as breaking into someones home and watching their paid for TV channels but as long as you do no damage while breaking into their home then no harm is done.

Think of the front lawn as a torrent site and your neighbour as the uploader/originator of the content. In some cases it might not be your neighbour but someone who stole the tv that's putting it on the lawn of course. Either way, you're never the one breaking in.

Kirby

Maguined wrote: »

No one is putting their tv out their front door. You are not being invited to watch, you don't accidentally pirate a game. It is a concious choice the same as breaking into someones home and watching their paid for TV channels but as long as you do no damage while breaking into their home then no harm is done.

Are you really equating breaking into somebody house to copyright infringement? Really?y